What if your MM or MW had other Affairs?

[Mio]

...a general comment to the BSs, and not one in particular...

 

My own personal experience, I was a BS first by a serial cheater xH. Perhaps because I knew his personna before I had solid evidence about his cheating, I didn't blame any of the OWs. Well, maybe one, and that was this woman he worked with who was evil-catty to me. And much, much later when I discovered (after the fact) that they indeed had an A and he discarded her, I had to chuckle to myself because she got dumped in the end. As a BS I went through my own pain and hurt, and was resentful and bitter towards my xH, definitely! It led to our D, and I don't regret having divorced him, not for one minute.

 

A long while after I was a BS, I got involved with my current MM while I was married (xH #2). So, I became an MW and OW in one fell swoop.

 

I can tell you from hindsight that in the interim years between discovering I was a BS and knowingly becoming a MW and OW, I would not have been able to give personal insight into the mind/heart of an OW. In other words, just because I experienced an A as the betrayed spouse, I was no wiser to the experience that a MW or OW goes through. I had no insight into that until I myself chose to become a MW and OW.

 

If I can assume other OW/OM have come to this forum as I have, it is to skip the blanket judgements, labels and criticisms and find support and advice from people who are willing to at least have an open mind in their circumstances. Rather than be attacked by bitter people who can't see beyond the OW/OM and the potential or established A, and who are quick to judge, scorn and ridicule the "sinners" who are participating in the A.

 

Maybe it's not too far off from someone who frequents a Gay/Lesbian forum and lambasts the posters for their sexual orientations.

 

If I were to desire blanket judgements and criticisms, I could call my sister. She is very generous in that regard.

 

What you have written, LG, is a great summary of my own position on these matters.

 

I grew up with my mother villifying my father for his (serial) betrayal. I swore I'd never be like that. I poured my heart and soul into my marriage, spending years in marital counselling. Yet ultimately, I ended up in an EA.

 

Had anyone asked me my opinion in the early years, I would have been horrified about affairs in general. It was a foreign concept to me and spoke of poor character. The development of my EA shattered a lot of my assumptions.

 

I was watching a video on the TED site, where Helen Fisher talked about the biochemistry of falling love. It reminded me once again what a powerful phenomenon it is, and how much it overpowers reason and logic at times. People in love do crazy things, oftentimes things that are hurtful to themselves.

 

Between the EA and my battle with depression, I learned that humans are complex on the one hand, and fragile on the other. I don't look out on the world anymore and see "good vs evil". I just see people, acting out of varying states of consciousness and unconsciousness.

 

To paraphrase a comment further up, people are people are people. They are us and we are them. If we alienate them, we alienate ourselves.

[Mio]

And so do you now envision yourself becoming like your father? A "serial betrayer?"

 

God no. But it made me aware of how easy it is for an A to happen. Unless you are on guard, it is not too hard to slip into an EA, and from there into a PA. As I said, love makes you do crazy sh*t.

[Mio]

And I, too, can understand this. However, if someone who is already IN an affair has ANOTHER affair, I would deem that person a serial cheater, no? Which is why I have posted on this issue as I have.

 

That's a different kind of animal. Does that happen? It would seem to defeat the purpose. The whole point of an affair is to get needs met that aren't being met in the marriage. Multiple simultaneous affairs just sounds like random sex.

[Reggie]

God no. But it made me aware of how easy it is for an A to happen. Unless you are on guard, it is not too hard to slip into an EA, and from there into a PA. As I said, love makes you do crazy sh*t.

 

Seems to me it would be pretty hard to cross that line. It is a huge boundary and one folks don't cross casually. No, I think if one maintains a conscience and abides by one's word, it would take a lot to cross that line.

[Mio]

Wow, who are these "bitter" BS's you speak about? I just don't see it.

 

I don't want to name names, because that seems unfair. But bitterness is in plentiful supply on this forum. It's not pleasant coming into this forum as an OM or OW.

[Mio]

Seems to me it would be pretty hard to cross that line. It is a huge boundary and one folks don't cross casually. No, I think if one maintains a conscience and abides by one's word, it would take a lot to cross that line.

 

Which line?

[Mio]

So if you were falling in love with someone who was married...it would be ok if this person had cheated physically on their spouse a dozen times prior to meeting you, as long as they told you that they weren't 'in love' with any of those people they'd shaboinked?

 

You wouldn't have any concern that they'd consider shaboinking someone else while they're with you?

 

No, that wouldn't be OK. This is not rocket science, you know!

 

I'm only talking of affairs based on emotional connection here. These are the only kind that will OMs and OWs coming to this forum seeking help. For this type of affair, people still crave emotional monogamy and trust. Maybe that sounds warped, but it is what it is.

[herenow]

That's a different kind of animal. Does that happen? It would seem to defeat the purpose. The whole point of an affair is to get needs met that aren't being met in the marriage. Multiple simultaneous affairs just sounds like random sex.

 

Actually, and this is along the lines of the OP, a serial adulterer is not necessarily looking for sex. I truly believe that had I not caught my H in his first affair, he would have continued to have affairs. The whole point of an affair is for the adulterer to get his or her individual needs met. In the case of serial adulterers, I think it's not about the marriage as much as it is about the person and what they are missing inside themselves.

 

If this type of person is able to dig deep inside and figure out why he or she continues this type of destructive behavior, there is a chance that they can stop. But, only if they are willing to do what it takes to change. Kind of like a recovering alcoholic, it's a lifetime adjustment in how they deal with relationships. So, in answer to the OP, if the person has done what it takes to find and fix what is missing inside them, they there is a chance of a true relationship. If they just move from relationship to relationship, chances are really good that they will continue having affairs.

[Mio]

You're kidding, right?! Do you seriously think people ONLY get involved in an affair because they're looking for true love? Most of the OW/OM I've read of here are, but the cheaters themselves? Waaaaayyyyy too many are simply in it for sexual variety. You can see it in the many, MANY unhappy endings for so many OW/OM on this forum who've been thrown under the bus when push came to shove. And I'd bet you dollars to donuts THAT type of cheater went right out and found another OW/OM once they'd gotten rid of the last.

 

THOSE are the ones that make me just wanna . They not only betray their spouse, they also f with OTHER innocent people.

 

I'm getting confused, donna. I've acknowledged many times on LS that affairs come in all shapes and sizes. Some are purely emotional, some are purely physical, and some are in between.

 

I picked up a sword in this forum to advocate for OMs and OWs. Do I understand you correctly that a "cheater" is the MM or MW?

[Mio]

Actually, and this is along the lines of the OP, a serial adulterer is not necessarily looking for sex. I truly believe that had I not caught my H in his first affair, he would have continued to have affairs. The whole point of an affair is for the adulterer to get his or her individual needs met. In the case of serial adulterers, I think it's not about the marriage as much as it is about the person and what they are missing inside themselves.

 

If this type of person is able to dig deep inside and figure out why he or she continues this type of destructive behavior, there is a chance that they can stop. But, only if they are willing to do what it takes to change. Kind of like a recovering alcoholic, it's a lifetime adjustment in how they deal with relationships. So, in answer to the OP, if the person has done what it takes to find and fix what is missing inside them, they there is a chance of a true relationship. If they just move from relationship to relationship, chances are really good that they will continue having affairs.

 

I agree with you completely, herenow.

[herenow]

I agree with you completely, herenow.

 

Wow, it's a moment to celebrate for sure. I'm glad we can see eye to eye on this.

[Mio]

But how many "serial cheaters" do you know actually tell their "victims," "You know, I'm just in it for sexual variety. I'm not really interested in a relationship, I just want a piece on the side." Of course they don't! They make these poor folks think they are "The One" until they get pushed too hard to leave their spouse, then under the bus they go.

 

I've watched that happen far too many times too, and wince whenever I hear new stories of how some girl thinks she will be The One. Some are lucky, I know. But marriage creates a lot of ties, and I think it's harder for spouses to cut those ties than they initially think. Staying in the marriage ends up being the easier choice.

[herenow]

I've watched that happen far too many times too, and wince whenever I hear new stories of how some girl thinks she will be The One. Some are lucky, I know. But marriage creates a lot of ties, and I think it's harder for spouses to cut those ties than they initially think. Staying in the marriage ends up being the easier choice.

 

OK, so we are about to disagree, it was a short honeymoon. Quitting is the easier choice, IMO, the easy way out. Staying is much harder because it takes time, effort and the ability to face your faults to be able to rebuild a marriage. It also takes both spouses equally making a commitment to make it work, and that is not always an easy feat.

[Mio]

OK, so we are about to disagree, it was a short honeymoon.

 

Dammit, we didn't even get to hold hands!

 

 

Quitting is the easier choice, IMO, the easy way out. Staying is much harder because it takes time, effort and the ability to face your faults to be able to rebuild a marriage. It also takes both spouses equally making a commitment to make it work, and that is not always an easy feat.

 

I was thinking of a marriage of several years, possibly with children. Leaving a marriage like that is often very, very difficult. You think that you have found your soulmate (the OW) and that life can be fantastic if you start all over again. No more unearthing of skeletons and hatchets by an embittered spouse.

 

But then you start to contemplate what you are giving up. All the friends you have in common. All the things which have come to be part of your identity, like the house, the street you live in, the CD collection, the books and a million other personal items you will have to split. And then there's your wife, who even though you know is a pain-in-the-ass, holds tons and tons of shared memories with you. Who can cook your favourite meals, unlike your affair partner (who only knows how to order in a restaurant). The same wife who was there comforting you when one of your parents died. Then there's the loss of prestige in the community, firstly when you announce being a divorcee, and then as word spreads that you had an affair.

 

Believe me, there's a lot at at stake, a lot to lose. The "easier" choice for most MM is to stay home, and the statistics bear that out.

[Mio]

Of course the cheater is the married person. In THIS thread, the question was what if your OW/OM had other affairs. To me, that would denote "serial cheater."

 

I am completely confused now! If someone is in simultaneous affairs, that isn't serial, that's parallel

 

(/waves at fellow IT nerds out there)

[herenow]

Dammit, we didn't even get to hold hands!

 

 

 

 

I was thinking of a marriage of several years, possibly with children. Leaving a marriage like that is often very, very difficult. You think that you have found your soulmate (the OW) and that life can be fantastic if you start all over again. No more unearthing of skeletons and hatchets by an embittered spouse.

 

But then you start to contemplate what you are giving up. All the friends you have in common. All the things which have come to be part of your identity, like the house, the street you live in, the CD collection, the books and a million other personal items you will have to split. And then there's your wife, who even though you know is a pain-in-the-ass, holds tons and tons of shared memories with you. Who can cook your favourite meals, unlike your affair partner (who only knows how to order in a restaurant). The same wife who was there comforting you when one of your parents died. Then there's the loss of prestige in the community, firstly when you announce being a divorcee, and then as word spreads that you had an affair.

 

Believe me, there's a lot at at stake, a lot to lose. The "easier" choice for most MM is to stay home, and the statistics bear that out.

 

So, let's just say that neither choice is "easy". I will stick with leaving is easier because it allows avoidance and gives the person, like you said, a chance to start clean.

 

Staying requires work, unless of course the person is staying without intent to change or stop being an adulterer. In that case, then yes, staying is the best of both worlds for that person. But, oh so cruel to the betrayed.

[Mio]

You would think the "serial cheaters" would figure that out on their first go 'round. Unless they really only want the extra sex on the side from a variety of sources. Which brings us back to the topic of this thread. Cheaters who cheat, cheat again.

 

This is why I said I agreed completely with herenow. People are motivated by what's happening on the inside. If that doesn't change, then history will repeat.

 

An affair is a bellwether. While the adulterer has to take responsibility for the sequence of choices that led to the affair, there is usually work to be done on both sides if the marriage if it is to survive.

 

PS. For using the word "cheat" so many times in one post, you get one of these:

[herenow]

This is why I said I agreed completely with herenow. People are motivated by what's happening on the inside. If that doesn't change, then history will repeat.

 

An affair is a bellwether. While the adulterer has to take responsibility for the sequence of choices that led to the affair, there is usually work to be done on both sides if the marriage if it is to survive.

 

PS. For using the word "cheat" so many times in one post, you get one of these:

 

Am I reading this correctly? Did you just say that the adulterer is responsible for the choice to cheat? If so, then we have a winner and we agree again.

[herenow]

Cheat is SOOOO much easier to type than "commit adultery" or "have an affair." :rolleyes: And, for clarity, I meant, "...cheat and cheat again."

 

Thank you donna for conserving thread space.

[LavendarGirl]

A serial cheater is a player with a wedding ring. I knew a guy who was a player in a bad sort of way. He would shrug his shoulders and say he wasn't doing anything immoral because he wasn't legally/morally committed to any of his women. At one time, he had 7 women he was seeing. One of his poor victims, er I mean girlfriends, had confided in me that she was hoping this guy was going to propose to her because she thought they were moving up to that level of commitment. Poor soul, I didn't tell her the truth. But he was not as honest with these women as he'd like to think.

 

Also, another time two of his women went over to his house to surprise him on his birthday. He wasn't there, but they met each other and compared notes. So on his birthday, he lost two members of his harem.

 

It was all about the conquest.

[herenow]

A serial cheater is a player with a wedding ring. I knew a guy who was a player in a bad sort of way. He would shrug his shoulders and say he wasn't doing anything immoral because he wasn't legally/morally committed to any of his women. At one time, he had 7 women he was seeing. One of his poor victims, er I mean girlfriends, had confided in me that she was hoping this guy was going to propose to her because she thought they were moving up to that level of commitment. Poor soul, I didn't tell her the truth. But he was not as honest with these women as he'd like to think.

 

Also, another time two of his women went over to his house to surprise him on his birthday. He wasn't there, but they met each other and compared notes. So on his birthday, he lost two members of his harem.

 

It was all about the conquest.

 

The difference is, the MM has made a commitment to not have a harem (unless of course that's what they agree to). Big difference when a single guy dates many women and a MM does the same.

[herenow]

If the guy wasn't telling any of these women he was dating other people, then I still find it appalling. Dishonesty and sneaking about sucks no matter which way you slice it.

 

Oh, I agree, but it's still a different situation when a MM is "dating". Both suck, it's just a different kind of sucking.

[Mio]

Am I reading this correctly? Did you just say that the adulterer is responsible for the choice to cheat? If so, then we have a winner and we agree again.

 

Well, I didn't put it so simplistically. We could have a great discussion here about responsibility and consciousness, but since we all seem to disagree on the most basic of concepts and terms, I'm not even going to try

 

People aren't automatons. They are greatly swayed by their emotions into doing things that they might otherwise think they are incapable of. Retrospectively, I think they can learn from this. That's where responsibility comes in. We can take responsibility to learn why we behave the way we do, in the hope of changing in the future.

[LavendarGirl]

The difference is, the MM has made a commitment to not have a harem (unless of course that's what they agree to). Big difference when a single guy dates many women and a MM does the same.

 

I do agree a serial cheater who is in a committed relationship is worse than a player who is committed to no one. But they have very similar motivations and mindsets.

[herenow]

I swear, with all this talk going on I can virtually HEAR the whirling vortex!

 

I'm searching or the vortex smiley. I couldn't find the shovel one.