Reggie Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I'd say bitter and angry, for a while, is quite healthy. Just like using judgement on folk's actions is normal. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think we should get back on topic. How would the OP feel if it wasn't their MP 1st A? Probably not special. Probably like he's (she's) a serial cheater. Probably like the MP will never leave and it's a lost cause. On the flip side, if the MP has had another A and loved their AP, they know what it's like when the AP is gone. And if they love their OP, it just might work in their favor. Or they're a serial cheater and the have OOW (OOM) on the side. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think we should get back on topic. How would the OP feel if it wasn't their MP 1st A? Probably not special. Probably like he's (she's) a serial cheater. Probably like the MP will never leave and it's a lost cause. On the flip side, if the MP has had another A and loved their AP, they know what it's like when the AP is gone. And if they love their OP, it just might work in their favor. Or they're a serial cheater and the have OOW (OOM) on the side. Digging deep for a real answer: What would I do if I found out that I wasn't my whatevers first whatever? Well, initially I wouldn't feel all that special. But if the "whatever" continued on, I would start to feel unique in some way because obviously there is something there that we found in our whatever that keeps bringing us back together. So, I guess what I am saying is, it wouldn't matter to me if I was the first, second, or thirtieth affair/whatever. I would be *current* and hoping for a chance a only/permanent with my SO. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Just curious, is a serial cheater less desirable as a cheating mate to an OW or OM? What about the practice and skills they might bring to the relationship? Wouldn't that be an advantage, providing he or she could assure you of a clean bill of health? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Just curious, is a serial cheater less desirable as a cheating mate to an OW or OM? What about the practice and skills they might bring to the relationship? Wouldn't that be an advantage, providing he or she could assure you of a clean bill of health? I could go for that too. As long as there are no diseases involved would it really matter if they'd done it before? Maybe, some of the OW/OM feel that if they'd done it before it proves that they aren't likely going to leave the marriage for them? Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Just curious, is a serial cheater less desirable as a cheating mate to an OW or OM? What about the practice and skills they might bring to the relationship? Wouldn't that be an advantage, providing he or she could assure you of a clean bill of health? Not all affairs are just rolls in the hay. For a casual-sex kind of affair, experience is going to be a good thing. But for people falling in love, it's usually a minus, as it is in most love relationships. Which is probably how I would answer the OP on this topic too. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Not all affairs are just rolls in the hay. For a casual-sex kind of affair, experience is going to be a good thing. But for people falling in love, it's usually a minus, as it is in most love relationships. Which is probably how I would answer the OP on this topic too. So if you were falling in love with someone who was married...it would be ok if this person had cheated physically on their spouse a dozen times prior to meeting you, as long as they told you that they weren't 'in love' with any of those people they'd shaboinked? You wouldn't have any concern that they'd consider shaboinking someone else while they're with you? Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 If someone asked me, "What's it like driving a Ford Mustang?", I don't think it's enough that I: drive a Toyotahave seen a Mustang on the roadhave crashed into a Mustanghate Mustangs and everything they stand for I would think my opinion only carries any validity if I currently drive a Mustang, or if I used to drive one (and qualify my answer accordingly). Feel free to disagree though Much of what you have said, Mio, even I cannot agree with. Having said that, I noticed no one answered your analogy which I think is applicable. Again, topic at hand.... (why is it so hard to answer a simple question for you people? ) If I were in an affair, then I would expect that my "mistress" would be faithful to me...and her husband if she had one. There would be a perverse kind of bond with her husband as we shared something. In his mind, I doubt it would be a good bond. If my mistress then had sex with someone else besides the two of us, then I would be furious and call her a slut. Why? because now she has shown that she is not simply in a bad marriage, but now she has shown that she will chase anything with a male organ. It is no longer ME that is important to her but it is any guy. So, then I would end said affair and move on. Even though the affair was built on lies, the assumption would be that "our" affair would be built on honesty. It is a paradox, but without that assumption an affair could not survive. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I agree this is a weird question. I guess the reason I find it weird is I don't think like "if MM/MW had an affair on affair partner." ***shrugging shoulders***** Link to post Share on other sites
LavendarGirl Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thieves have a code of honor. Murders even have a code of honor. So yes, adulterers have a code of honor among themselves. Thieves, murderers and adulterers. Ouch, James. Is this a classification of people? Am I like one step away from killing the babysitter? Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Thieves, murderers and adulterers. Ouch, James. Is this a classification of people? Am I like one step away from killing the babysitter? Sorry. No. If you read my many posts here where I have defended those in affairs, you can see that this is a bit of tongue in cheek. Sometimes my sarcasm is too well hidden. Notice some of those who disagreed with me began using the names of Ted Bundy and Hitler as ways to show hjow awful "cheaters" are. I disagreed. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I disagree that it is applicable. Driving a particular brand of car is one thing. If you've never driven that particular car, you've never driven that car. HOWEVER, I'm willing to bet that EVERYONE has been hurt in love before. EVERYONE knows the feeling that betrayal brings, whether it be in an affair or not. EVERYONE knows what it feels like to be lied to, whether in an affair or not. Therefore, EVERYONE can have valuable input to this little scenario. We disagree. And thank you for responding to the analogy. It is no different than if someone asked a person who is in college and is dating about experiences in marriage. They have dated and have learned to love, but they do not know what it is to live with someone day in and day out. They cannot relate to the dull mundane tasks that happen every day. Yes, we may have been hurt before. But if we have never been in the situation as asked by the original question, then our experiences may be similar but they will not really be as applicable as the answers of someone who actually has been in the situation described. As you said, this does not mean insight cannot be added, but since this is a question directed specifically at those who have been in this particular situation, then simply being in a similar situation is not applicable to the answer. Many here have described what they think about the question, described what they think about affairs, described what they think about cheaters. However, few if any have actually answered the question from the viewpoint of one who has experienced the situation described. Link to post Share on other sites
LavendarGirl Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Sorry. No. If you read my many posts here where I have defended those in affairs, you can see that this is a bit of tongue in cheek. Sometimes my sarcasm is too well hidden. Notice some of those who disagreed with me began using the names of Ted Bundy and Hitler as ways to show hjow awful "cheaters" are. I disagreed. Tis okay, James. I -really- knew where you were coming from. I was poking your sarcasm with with a bit of sardonic wit. Link to post Share on other sites
LavendarGirl Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 ...a general comment to the BSs, and not one in particular... My own personal experience, I was a BS first by a serial cheater xH. Perhaps because I knew his personna before I had solid evidence about his cheating, I didn't blame any of the OWs. Well, maybe one, and that was this woman he worked with who was evil-catty to me. And much, much later when I discovered (after the fact) that they indeed had an A and he discarded her, I had to chuckle to myself because she got dumped in the end. As a BS I went through my own pain and hurt, and was resentful and bitter towards my xH, definitely! It led to our D, and I don't regret having divorced him, not for one minute. A long while after I was a BS, I got involved with my current MM while I was married (xH #2). So, I became an MW and OW in one fell swoop. I can tell you from hindsight that in the interim years between discovering I was a BS and knowingly becoming a MW and OW, I would not have been able to give personal insight into the mind/heart of an OW. In other words, just because I experienced an A as the betrayed spouse, I was no wiser to the experience that a MW or OW goes through. I had no insight into that until I myself chose to become a MW and OW. If I can assume other OW/OM have come to this forum as I have, it is to skip the blanket judgements, labels and criticisms and find support and advice from people who are willing to at least have an open mind in their circumstances. Rather than be attacked by bitter people who can't see beyond the OW/OM and the potential or established A, and who are quick to judge, scorn and ridicule the "sinners" who are participating in the A. Maybe it's not too far off from someone who frequents a Gay/Lesbian forum and lambasts the posters for their sexual orientations. If I were to desire blanket judgements and criticisms, I could call my sister. She is very generous in that regard. Link to post Share on other sites
LavendarGirl Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 No one is saying there can't be a "true love" situation borne from an affair, so stop with all the . HOWEVER, the OP's question was, "what if your MM/MW had other affairs?" Don't you think if someone who is already cheating is cheating again that is a sure sign? Therefore, my answer still stands. If your MM/MW is cheating on the person he/she is cheating with, they are most likely a serial cheater, and you probably won't find out about the OTHER affairs anyway as someone like that is probably NOT going to just tell you - unless your MM/MW either doesn't care if you find out or is VERY sloppy. Sorry, Donna, are you telling me to stop using ? I was referring to my sister's overly generous nature in criticisms. This thread, well over 300 postings now, has gone way off topic, and I was addressing the posts here from the bitter BSs who have taken the opportunity to stick claws out and scratch. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Sorry. Misunderstood the intent of the . lol Feel free to give me a if you'd like. You gals make me and and even sometimes , yet through it all I . Sometimes it even makes me you more. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I still think there would be comparisons with the OW finding out the MM has had other affairs, and the BW finding out about an OW. I think both women would feel a bit insignificant or not special as others have said. And, I think there would be a felling that the OW or BW didn't really know the man as well as she thought she did. IMO it does matter if there were more than one for both the OW and the BW. I still feel that as the BW I can have valuable input to those feeling of betrayal. Let's take the "Mustang" analogy: Hypothetically: I have never driven a Mustang, but I do own a Ford. When I take my Ford in for service, they never do the work right. They are never able to recreated the problem, so it never gets fixed. Since Ford makes the "Mustang", I would have to say that although I don't know much about the car, I do know a lot about who makes it and the service you will get when you have problems with it. In reality, if you do ever get a Ford, find an independent mechanic because the guys at Ford service s**k. JMO! Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Sorry, Donna, are you telling me to stop using ? I was referring to my sister's overly generous nature in criticisms. This thread, well over 300 postings now, has gone way off topic, and I was addressing the posts here from the bitter BSs who have taken the opportunity to stick claws out and scratch. Wow, who are these "bitter" BS's you speak about? I just don't see it. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Let's take the "Mustang" analogy: Hypothetically: I have never driven a Mustang, but I do own a Ford. When I take my Ford in for service, they never do the work right. They are never able to recreated the problem, so it never gets fixed. Since Ford makes the "Mustang", I would have to say that although I don't know much about the car, I do know a lot about who makes it and the service you will get when you have problems with it. In reality, if you do ever get a Ford, find an independent mechanic because the guys at Ford service s**k. JMO! Okay, I am stuck with where you were going with this. Seriously. So if I am married to a woman who is faithful, then I can relate to a woman who is not faithful? Since I am dating a woman, then I can relate to someone who has been married for ten years? Since my woman "s*cks," then all women "s*ck?" I AM confused. Perhaps I had better get another cup of coffee. As for Fords, I do prefer Pontiacs. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Okay, I am stuck with where you were going with this. Seriously. So if I am married to a woman who is faithful, then I can relate to a woman who is not faithful? Since I am dating a woman, then I can relate to someone who has been married for ten years? Since my woman "s*cks," then all women "s*ck?" I AM confused. Perhaps I had better get another cup of coffee. As for Fords, I do prefer Pontiacs. My only point is that even though I don't own a "Mustang", I can still comment on Ford because I have owned a Ford. The analogy isn't about affairs as much as the question about commenting on something you don't own like a "Mustang". Does that make sense? If you look at the original analogy the poster is talking about why a BW shouldn't comment about affairs since we have never had one. Link to post Share on other sites
herenow Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 No, I think she's saying a cheater is a cheater is a cheater, not a woman is a woman is a woman. OK, that works as well. Although I am reformed and I now use the word adulterer because "cheater" is offensive to some. So yes, a Ford is a Ford is a Ford. Also, please note that I did comment on the OP. I think we as BW can relate in a way because betrayal is betrayal is betrayal. Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think it's a fair enough comparison to say that a BS finding out their H is cheating on them is similar to an OW finding out that their MM is cheating on them (with another OW, at the same time). Both women are discovering that the man they're with is cheating on them, as in lying to them about their sexual/emotional relationships with others. The feeling must be similar when you're an unknowing OW who discovers that the man you've been seeing is married. No, the exact circumstances are not the same, but being cheated on, in that sense, is the same, whoever is wearing the rings. That's my opinion. Of course people will say that an OW knows that a MM is a cheater anyway (unless she's been an unknowing OW, of course), so 'what does she expect'? If he'll cheat with you, he'll cheat on you, etc. etc. In which case I always wonder: is that same comment aimed at BSs who have discovered their WS was having an affair (had a d-day, in other words), and choose to continue to stay married/reconcile? Surely then, the BS knows they're dealing with 'a cheater', from that day forward, and therefore, do they lose anyone's sympathy when it's discovered that he's continued to cheat (as they mostly do)? Or are the 'well you knew what you were getting intos' only aimed at those not married to the 'cheater'? In what way does a BS differ from an unknowing OW, in terms of how hard it might hit them emotionally, and the difficulties in leaving that relationship, all other things being equal (length of relationship, no kids, whatever)? Just more hypotheticals, I suppose, and I don't want to get into all the debates about 'cheaters' (the term), etc. But I don't think people are so far apart in how they experience being deceived, and their heart being ripped to shreds by those who they've trusted, on whatever level. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Good post, frannie. I think you can add alot to this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 No, I think she's saying a cheater is a cheater is a cheater, not a woman is a woman is a woman. I almost missed this. If there is one thing a man learns, then it is...a woman is a woman is a woman is a woman....NOT. Change is inevitable when living with a woman. And when a guy just begins to feel confident that he knows his woman, she changes the rules once again. No wonder men get grayer quicker. Sorry off topic of the off topic. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 Your sexist pigism is beginning to show, James! Thank you....that is why you make me because of how you get at me and . But despite it all I and with nothing but in my heart. Say, mods, is it getting deep in here or is it just me? Link to post Share on other sites
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