What if your MM or MW had other Affairs?

[CAMAYPARK]

DM, I was merely tossing around some senarios, pretty much like James.

Variety & cheaters? Maybe but thats reverting to being typecast once again.

 

I just think there are cheaters and then there are cheaters. I am leaning towards the case by case basis, maybe I am too softhearted.

[JamesM]

 

Granted, I'm sure this does happen, but in most cases of cheaters (from what I've read on LS), they just want variety, and some are willing to provide it.

 

The stories we hear from the OW or OM tell us that the MM or MW is in a lousy marriage.

 

The stories we hear from the BS is that the WS simply decided to have an affair one day...even though the marriage was perfect ("well, okay maybe a couple of problems, but I was working on them").

 

The BS's story is suspect, and the OW's story is suspect. And I am guessing that the WS's story is suspect.

 

Who knows why we do what we do?

[JamesM]

That's why I said in most cases. It's a percentages thing, and I firmly believe that MOST people cheat simply because they want to.

 

Hey, we agree!

 

The question is not do they want to cheat, but WHY do they want to cheat? What drove them to the place where cheating was more desirable than fidelity?

[Reggie]

The stories we hear from the OW or OM tell us that the MM or MW is in a lousy marriage.

 

The stories we hear from the BS is that the WS simply decided to have an affair one day...even though the marriage was perfect ("well, okay maybe a couple of problems, but I was working on them").

 

The BS's story is suspect, and the OW's story is suspect. And I am guessing that the WS's story is suspect.

 

Who knows why we do what we do?

 

That's why it is best to have abiding principles, not one that shift with the winds. You made vows not to cheat. They were not qualified vows. So, if one sticks to those, no problem.

If the situation gets to the point where one has to leave, just do it above board, honestly, with a divorce.

[Reggie]

Hey, we agree!

 

The question is not do they want to cheat, but WHY do they want to cheat? What drove them to the place where cheating was more desirable than fidelity?

 

James, this makes no sense. Why would someone be driven to cheat when they could simply be honest and ask for a divorce? Divorce is much simpler and causes less damage to kids and the BS.

[OWoman]

A recent study found those who were unhappy but stay married were more likely to be happy five years later than those who divorced.

 

This is both counter-intuitive and runs counter to my observed, and lived, experience, so I'd be very interested in reading this study, if you can provide details.

 

Men and women both suffer a decline in mental health following divorce, but researchers have found that women are more greatly affected. Some of the mental health indicators affected by divorce include depression, hostility, self-acceptance, personal growth and positive relations with others.

 

My experience was the exact opposite - after being clinically depressed while M, on D I got a whole new lease on life and became happy, pleasant, my self confidence rocketed and my social life took off after the isolation of M. I've noticed the same in my father, after his D, and several friends, and now with MM too - he's no longer on meds for depression, his overall health has improved, he's working out and fit and healthy, he's happy and engaged and alive and laughing - and so are the kids, after years of silent introspection and withdrawal.

 

I have known others who got depressed after a D - sometimes including massive weight gain, exacerbating the D - but these tended to be people who were happy in the M, couldn't understand that the other spouse was not happy, and who wanted the M to continue and did not want the D.

 

I suppose it depends on which partner WANTED the D - all of those I listed as being happier post D did; the spouses they left behind who may not have, might have experienced it differently. So I'd be interested to see if the study differentiated on factors like that.

[OWoman]

That's why it is best to have abiding principles, not one that shift with the winds. You made vows not to cheat. They were not qualified vows. So, if one sticks to those, no problem.

 

Not every M involves those vows. But sometimes, even if they were not said, one spouse assumes that to be the case without stating it upfront, and gets upset down the track when they find out that wasn't the case.

[OWoman]

The stories we hear from the OW or OM tell us that the MM or MW is in a lousy marriage.

 

The stories we hear from the BS is that the WS simply decided to have an affair one day...even though the marriage was perfect ("well, okay maybe a couple of problems, but I was working on them").

 

The BS's story is suspect, and the OW's story is suspect. And I am guessing that the WS's story is suspect.

 

I would never believe what a WS told me about their M. I'd do my research, if it was an issue to me. But perception also shifts, and what someone might say on one day (that they were very happy, say) they may disagree with some time later when they have other grounds to compare (say, seeing another couple whose M seems genuinely happy and passionate, after years together), and of course observers see only what happens in the public view and not behind closed doors.

 

But when, as in my case, ALL the friends, family and colleagues repeat the same litany of awfulness played out in full view of everyone with absolutely no qualms or concerns about what others might think, it becomes pretty clear what the situation is - whether the WS 'fesses up to it or not!

[OWoman]

I think it's just generally assumed that when you marry there is an intention to remain faithful to one another. If that is NOT the case for one or both of the parties, they should be upfront about it and make that clear before the ceremony.

 

I disagree that "general assumption" should hold such sway. If a vegetarian marries a carnivore and they breed, why should either just assume that the spawn will be raised on their favoured diet? Similarly, if a religious person marries an atheist, and they breed, why should either make assumptions about the religious upbringing of their offspring? Assumptions are what lead to problems in Rs, IME - if something's that important to you, you ought to discuss it and clarify it upfront, rather than assuming that your way will hold sway, and getting upset if that isn't the case.

[herenow]

JamesM, I understand that you are saying that lack of sex is a reason that MM have to cheat. OR, a motive like you said. Problem is, he has a reasonable alternative that is honest and fair, like many others have said, DIVORCE.

 

Is divorce painful and hard? Yes, but it's certainly less damaging than an affair in the long run. If a MM has really tried to communicate his issues to his wife and things don't change, IMO, it would seem that their are incompatible. Good reason for a divorce.

 

I ask again, why is it that about 50% of married people are able to get a divorce and the poor man whose wife doesn't want to have sex is stuck with the only option of having an affair? What is it about these men that they are unable to deal with these issues the way millions of other have been able to do?

 

My guess is that it's not about the sex, it's not about the OW, it's not about the marriage. It's all about the cheater and if the BW had sex with her H every night, he would find another "motive" to have an affair. A MM is either capable of that action or not, his wife does not have the power in any way to force him into having sex with an OW even if she never has sex with him.

 

It's a complete lack of respect for everyone involved. If a MM has any kind of respect for his wife, himself, his marriage, his kids, his family, anyone, he wouldn't lie about something that could be so painful to the people he is supposed to care about most. HE is the problem, the one and only problem. NO motive, can justify an affair at all. IMO.

[JamesM]

James, this makes no sense. Why would someone be driven to cheat when they could simply be honest and ask for a divorce? Divorce is much simpler and causes less damage to kids and the BS.

 

The assumption is that the affair will be discovered. And this is an issue rarely discussed.

 

How many MM or MW have affairs and have kept them secret their entire married lives?

 

When someone begins an affair, I am guessing that they figure the affair will be kept a secret. Based on this assumption, an affair is better than a divorce.

[JamesM]

This is both counter-intuitive and runs counter to my observed, and lived, experience, so I'd be very interested in reading this study, if you can provide details.

 

 

 

 

It was at the link I provided.

[herenow]

The assumption is that the affair will be discovered. And this is an issue rarely discussed.

 

How many MM or MW have affairs and have kept them secret their entire married lives?

 

When someone begins an affair, I am guessing that they figure the affair will be kept a secret. Based on this assumption, an affair is better than a divorce.

 

I don't think so. And, I would bet that most BW would agree that "what we don't know doesn't hurt us" is a pile of crap. Going back to the STD situation alone is enough to prove your theory wrong. Even if it doesn't happen all the time, it does happen. Besides that, how is an affair better than divorce just because the MM continues to lie to his wife? Not sure about you, but living with a lie like that would eventually tear me apart.

[JamesM]

I think it's just generally assumed that when you marry there is an intention to remain faithful to one another. If that is NOT the case for one or both of the parties, they should be upfront about it and make that clear before the ceremony.

 

I highly doubt that the majority of individuals who have an affair ever considered such an idea the day they were married. Yes, I am sure there a few, but most of us were (and maybe still are) so in love that we could not believe that we would ever do anything to hurt the other person.

 

A few months later some of us may have been ready to kill the other person ...but an affair? No.

 

Reggie, I agree. If we would all honor the marriage vows as stated, then there would be no affairs and no divorces. Unfortunately, it doesn't happen that way.

[herenow]

JamesM, you are really good at giving MM excuses to cheat and reasons to lie. Why is that?

[JamesM]

Besides that, how is an affair better than divorce just because the MM continues to lie to his wife? Not sure about you, but living with a lie like that would eventually tear me apart.

 

Many people can compartmentalize affairs and justify them. We see it here where someone had an affair and never tells the wife or husband.

 

Besides, people who start affairs are not thinking STDs or potential fallout. At the time of the choice....affair or divorce, I doubt the idea of a divorce looks simpler.

[JamesM]

So then what you're saying is the choice to have an affair v. divorce is based on the cheater's selfishness. Gotcha!

 

Yes, the CHOICE is.

[herenow]

Many people can compartmentalize affairs and justify them. We see it here where someone had an affair and never tells the wife or husband.

 

Besides, people who start affairs are not thinking STDs or potential fallout. At the time of the choice....affair or divorce, I doubt the idea of a divorce looks simpler.

 

So what are they thinking about?

[Reggie]

Not every M involves those vows. But sometimes, even if they were not said, one spouse assumes that to be the case without stating it upfront, and gets upset down the track when they find out that wasn't the case.

 

I'd bet it is a ridiculously low percentage of Western marriages that don't have vows providing for fidelity. I clerked for a judge during lawschool and witnessed countless civil ceremonies . All included vows of fidelity. Same with all the religous ceremonies I've attended.

If there was no vow and no representation of fidelity , maybe cheating is accepted by both spuses. But, you cannot seriously expect anyone with any expierience to accept that there is anything other than a small fraction of marriages entered into without vows of fidelity.

[herenow]

And there you have it! Ta daaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

But, when he emphasized CHOICE, I think he is trying to say that they have a reason. Which is nothing more than JamesM giving the MM justification for having the affair.

[JamesM]

JamesM, you are really good at giving MM excuses to cheat and reasons to lie. Why is that?

 

Because I can see both sides fairly well. Unfortunately here, it seems that if one gives reasons why one might seek out an affair or choose an affair, then that person must condone affairs.

 

As for me, that is not the case at all.

 

Being here on LS for three years and having read books and posts from other boards, this has given me a pretty good idea of the reasons and "excuses" that men and women use for their affairs.

 

And personally, having lived over 18 years of an overall good marriage (which as has been noted here has had its rough moments), I can see why someone in those circumstances might choose an affair for a thrill and "relief." (Since I tend to think things out too often, then my thoughts would move to the fallout and pain...not the pleasure of an affair).

 

Again, I do not condone affairs.

[Reggie]

JamesM, you are really good at giving MM excuses to cheat and reasons to lie. Why is that?

 

Sounds like James has little belief in self determination. WS are simply responding, like automatons, to things beyond their control. Poor little automatons. They had no choice.

[JamesM]

But, when he emphasized CHOICE, I think he is trying to say that they have a reason. Which is nothing more than JamesM giving the MM justification for having the affair.

 

Reason and justification are not necessarily equal.

 

I may have a rational reason for why I do something, but this in now way makes my choice right (or justifiable).

 

Giving reasons for why someone does something does not mean this condones that behavior.

[JamesM]

And there you have it! Ta daaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I choose to drive carefully on icy roads.

 

The reason why I do so is because I might slide and have an accident.

 

Choice is separate from reasons or motivation.

[JamesM]

Sounds like James has little belief in self determination. WS are simply responding, like automatons, to things beyond their control. Poor little automatons. They had no choice.

 

Reread my many posts. You of all people have seen how I differentiate between one's choice and one's motivation.

 

Two people may be faced with the possibility of an affair and both have bad marriages. While both have a possible motivation for choosing an affair, both will not probably do so as if they are automatically inclined to an affair based on their circumstances.

 

We have choices, but circumstances will influence our choices. What we choose though may be influenced by other factors as well.