BOREDOM...#1 reason men/women cheat

[Geishawhelk]

Many of us are "wired" to value fidelity. If a spouse cheats, it affects us negatively..ie., our spouse's actions, AND THE WAY WE INTERPRET THEM, makes us FEEL horrible. This forum is full of betrayed spouses who are suffering from self-esteem issues because of the actions of their wayward spouses.

Actually, no we're not.

we're wired to spread ourselves as much as we can, with the best partners we can find. We'ew wired to play the field...

 

We're CONDITIONED to value fidelity.

That's the difference.

We're not designed or made to be faithful.

Very few mammals are. if we were wired and designed to be fsaithful - then we would be, and boards like this one would be empty. (as you point out., Why do you think that is?)

Being faithful and sticking to one partner is a conscious choice, promise and vow we make.

 

Look at how many times that goes down the pan....

According to your theory, only YOU can make YOU feel a certain way.

It's not a theory. It's absolute irrefutable fact.

 

 

I don't buy it. A human being would have to be a robot of some sort to NOT FEEL something after his/her spouse cheated...anger,

 

Your feeling, not theirs.

sadness,

Your feeling, not theirs.

disgust

Your feeling, not theirs.

devalued,

Your feeling, not theirs.

unappreciated,

Your feeling, not theirs.

disrespected, etc

Your feeling, not theirs.

 

Their actions may be one thing.

All the above emotions are experienced and manifested by you. So it's your reaction, not their action, that you have to confront and deal with.

 

 

Eventually the betrayed spouse DEALS with these feelings, takes control over them...but it doesn't discount the premise that another person's can and does have the power to make a person feel a certain way.

Only because you relinquish that power and hand them the control. You abdicate responsibility, and put it on them.

As I said, their behaviour may be reprehensible and misguided.

How you react is up to you.

You have the Power to feel whichever way you want.

Own it, don't give it away.

 

I know many people who ONCE had very high self-esteem whose life circumstances changed all that.

 

I know of men who have lost executive positions. The blow to their self-esteem was almost unsurmountable.

 

I know of two women who struggled with the worst self-esteem issues at the hands of verbal and physically abusive husbands. It took them years to gain the strength to get out from under these circumstances and years to regain their sense of self. Both of these women were at the top of their game before they met these men.

 

I take nothing away from the circumstances.

 

But look at what you've written: they gained their strength. They gained their sense of self. Key words here: THEY did it. Why?

Because nobody COULD DO IT FOR THEM.

They were given the tools, and they did the jobs themselves.

Because they owned it all. They accepted that the only way up for them, was to climb.

For thermselves.

 

People do have the power to affect our self-esteem and our self-image.

"Nobody can make yuou feel inferior without your consent." If they do this, it's because you've given them the opening to let them.

That is why it is crucial that we as human beings treat each other with kindness and self-respect.

We shouldn't need a reason to behave this way.

 

 

I don't care what the psychologists say.

That's ok.

Stay in denial.

And subscribe to the mistaken belief that others can - and do - control what goes on inside your head.

[Trialbyfire]

"Men think with their dick" Yes they do! Driven by animal instincts? Absolutely!

 

So why the hell do we talk about cheating. Having sex with as many women as possible is part of our nature.

Animal instincts include rape and voiding where you stand. Do all men rape and piss where-ever they stand?

[Geishawhelk]

So why the hell do we talk about cheating. Having sex with as many women as possible is part of our nature.

 

And if they're free to do so, and if you're free to do so, go bat that ball, baby!

 

However, there is the small matter of a civil and legal partnership where people actually stand up infront of witnesses and declare a singular unity with their chosen SO.

It's a legally binding contract and can cost a whole lot of money, anguish and pain to come out of it.

 

If people can't keep the promise, they shouldn't have made it in the first place.

If during this legally binding contract period, they wish to remove themselves, they should be up-front and declare it - before they go lowering their jeans and spreading their genes.

It makes for far fewer complications.

 

if people declare themselves in an exclusive relationship, that requires self-control to maintain.

 

My signature says it all.

 

And as I've stated - if my partner goes shagging some other young filly, I won't give a damn. It's the lie which will be the deal-breaker.

[Geishawhelk]

Animal instincts include rape and voiding where you stand. Do all men rape and piss where-ever they stand?

 

I will stand up and say the french seem to do the latter (pee) with total abandon.....

 

And more men than women rape.

 

What animals 'rape' TBF?

 

never really come across that before....

remember that "rape" is really a human definition.....

[Trialbyfire]

I will stand up and say the french seem to do the latter (pee) with total abandon.....

I can only comment that it's not the vast majority of men. So what stops everyone else? What stops people from taking it further and doing the other form of voiding, whenever and whereever their body signals to do so?

 

And more men than women rape.

 

What animals 'rape' TBF?

 

never really come across that before....

remember that "rape" is really a human definition.....

I won't deny that more men than women rape. But if it's instinctual for men to spread their seed, why aren't all men raping whenever they find someone sexually attractive?

 

Sure, rape is a human definition but it encompasses having intercourse where both parties aren't willing.

 

As an example, dogs manifest their dominance with other dogs, by mounting both male and female dogs. By human definition, this is rape.

[Geishawhelk]

I can only comment that it's not the vast majority of men. So what stops everyone else? What stops people from taking it further and doing the other form of voiding, whenever and whereever their body signals to do so?

 

Education? Etiquette? Shyness? Culture?

 

Men in the Far East behave in comparatively different ways to the way western men do.

Talk about a clash of cultures.

many Midle-Eastern men in the UK have tried to exercise customs and habits they 'brought with them', only to receive the short sharp shocking rebuke that no, actually, we don't do that here.....

 

 

I won't deny that more men than women rape. But if it's instinctual for men to spread their seed, why aren't all men raping whenever they find someone sexually attractive?

because it's equally instinctual for women to wish to mate and procreate according to their natural desires.

This isn't a gender thing, it''s a species thing.

 

Again, Culture, upbringing, Ethics, customs and social conditioning (all intellectual human traits) all go to create and form the people we become. But Nature will out, at times.

 

Sure, rape is a human definition but it encompasses having intercourse where both parties aren't willing.

Where humans are concerned, yes.

 

As an example, dogs manifest their dominance with other dogs, by mounting both male and female dogs. By human definition, this is rape.

Important term that: "By HUMAN definition."

 

Animals don't see it that way.

Animals see it as a pack-dominance superiority behaviour.

However, dogs will try to mount dogs, and bitches also mount bitches. this is also a bonding technique amongst dogs, and should not be perceived as hostile.

 

The problems with human-animal relations is precisely when we attempt to impose our manner of thinking and logic onto an animalistic behaviour.

Our intellect does us no favours at times.

[Trialbyfire]

Then you're in agreement that we, as human beings, have the ability to circumvent our instinctual reactions/responses, due to assorted social constructs, the ability to analyze and freedom of will.

 

Also, when someone cheats, they lie to cover this up. Instinctually, lying doesn't exist. If someone isn't in an exclusive relationship, they're not cheating since they're not breaking any agreements.

 

When you enter an exclusive relationship with assorted agreements/commitments in place between the two of you, this isn't an instinctual reaction/response. It's a human social construct.

 

This is essentially my position about "instinctual" cheating v. choice.

[taylor]

Actually, no we're not.

we're wired to spread ourselves as much as we can, with the best partners we can find. We'ew wired to play the field...

 

We're CONDITIONED to value fidelity.

That's the difference.

We're not designed or made to be faithful.

Very few mammals are. if we were wired and designed to be fsaithful - then we would be, and boards like this one would be empty. (as you point out., Why do you think that is?)

Being faithful and sticking to one partner is a conscious choice, promise and vow we make.

 

Semantics.

 

The point I was trying to make is each person will interpret a particular action in a particular way based on how their own sense of self and sense of what is right, wrong, good, bad. As a society we value fidelity so when that value is violated, it affects us negatively.

 

I don't think any betrayed spouse ponders the whole "we were meant to spread our seed" theory when they are crushed emotionally by their spouse's affair.

 

 

 

 

 

It's not a theory. It's absolute irrefutable fact.

 

If a man tells his wife he cheated on her, loved the OW and wanted a divorce, the wife would feel something...she would be affected emotionally by his words and actions. That is a fact.

 

 

 

 

Your feeling. not theirs.

Their actions may be one thing.

All the above emotions are experienced and manifested by you. So it's your reaction, not their action, that you have to confront and deal with.

 

I agree with you here completely. Don't refute this at all.

You own your own feelings and you have the arduous task of dealing with them. Sometimes it takes years to deal with feelings...to make peace with them.

It still does not discount my premise that a person has the power to make another person feel a certain way. It's what you do with those feelings generated by another's words or actions that you deal with...come to terms with...recover from...put into perspective...take control over...in order to restore yourself.

 

 

 

Only because you relinquish that power and hand them the control. You abdicate responsibility, and put it on them.

As I said, their behaviour may be reprehensible and misguided.

How you react is up to you.

You have the Power to feel whichever way you want.

Own it, don't give it away.

 

This sounds just like Dr. Phil. It's a great pep talk. But the thing is human beings are frail...our hearts are sensitive...we lose control..we break down...we weaken...we allow others to affect us by our words and actions. We wouldn't be human if they didn't. Even animals are affected emotionally by the words and actions of others.

 

If no one felt hurt, betrayed, let down, crushed, paralyzed, frantic, discouraged, angry, etc. because of the actions of a boyfriend, girlfriend, or spouse there would be no need for a forum such as this. This forum is here for people who are hurting because of the words or actions of another.

 

I would love to see the list of betrayed spouses who were not affected emotionally on D-day. I want to see the list of betrayed spouses who didn't lose it...whose world wasn't turned upside down. I want to see the list of betrayed spouses who didn't let their spouse's affair affect them because they knew they couldn't BLAME their spouse for what they were feeling.

 

 

 

 

But look at what you've written: they gained their strength. They gained their sense of self. Key words here: THEY did it. Why?

Because nobody COULD DO IT FOR THEM.

They were given the tools, and they did the jobs themselves.

Because they owned it all. They accepted that the only way up for them, was to climb.

For thermselves.

 

Again, I agree with you that people are responsible for dealing with their emotions and for restoring their sense of self. It still doesn't discount my premise that other people have the ability to steal your sense of self-worth from you or can provoke emotions in you by their words and actions.

 

If a spouse never cheated, an SO would not have to deal with feelings of betrayal. Those feelings would never have existed. What caused them to exist: the actions of their spouse.

 

 

"Nobody can make yuou feel inferior without your consent." If they do this, it's because you've given them the opening to let them.

 

Again, sounds like Dr. Phil. A great pep talk. The thing is people do feel inferior when someone they value hurts them. It's just human to feel that way. And it can take a long time to deal with those feelings in order to feel right again.

 

 

 

 

That's ok.

Stay in denial.

And subscribe to the mistaken belief that others can - and do - control what goes on inside your head.

 

It's not denial. It's just my opinion. Not that endeared to psycho-babble.

 

And no, I do not believe others control what goes on inside my head. Never said that. But I do believe others can touch your heart in good and bad ways...emotional ways..and it can take a long time to reconsile your heart and your head.

[Geishawhelk]

Then you're in agreement that we, as human beings, have the ability to circumvent our instinctual reactions/responses, due to assorted social constructs, the ability to analyze and freedom of will.

 

Also, when someone cheats, they lie to cover this up. Instinctually, lying doesn't exist.

Yes, it does, in a couple of forms..... It's called 'camouflage' and furthermore some animals will adopt a strategy displaying false signals and symptoms to distract predators or deter them. They behave in such a way as to deflect attention from what's really happening, by creating a false impression.

It's a survival technique.

 

If someone isn't in an exclusive relationship, they're not cheating since they're not breaking any agreements.

Agreed....

 

When you enter an exclusive relationship with assorted agreements/commitments in place between the two of you, this isn't an instinctual reaction/response. It's a human social construct.

Correct.

 

This is essentially my position about "instinctual" cheating v. choice.

 

Lying is a technique used by humans to cover things up they'd rather not expose.

but the socio-ethical structure behind that deceit and subterfuge is hightly complex. It's a combination of instinct (must save my skin at all costs) and intellect.

 

Whilst human beings are behaviourally more like animals than they'd like to believe, it's the development of our brain, and the implications and complexities of that development, which give rise to all manner and means of intricate, unfathomable manifested behaviours.

 

 

I just love discussions like this!!

[Trialbyfire]

Yes, it does, in a couple of forms..... It's called 'camouflage' and furthermore some animals will adopt a strategy displaying false signals and symptoms to distract predators or deter them. They behave in such a way as to deflect attention from what's really happening, by creating a false impression.

It's a survival technique.

Good point!

 

Do animals enter into a social construct called an exclusive and committed relationship and then lie, to cover up their cheating?

 

Lying is a technique used by humans to cover things up they'd rather not expose.

but the socio-ethical structure behind that deceit and subterfuge is hightly complex. It's a combination of instinct (must save my skin at all costs) and intellect.

 

Whilst human beings are behaviourally more like animals than they'd like to believe, it's the development of our brain, and the implications and complexities of that development, which give rise to all manner and means of intricate, unfathomable manifested behaviours.

I just bolded the two phrases that impact, in a situation of exclusivity and cheating. We consciously enter into a social construct (non-instinctual) and then rationalize the lies by saying "she/he made me cheat, due to blah, blah, blah".

 

Technically, human beings are the only species that can deceive themselves.

[taylor]

I'm sorry you don't agree. That unfortunately puts you at odds with all psychologists

 

I think I read that you had 6 months of IC? Surely they explained this to you? We only feel stuff because of the way we interpret things. A person with good self-esteem is not affected by the same words that would crumble a person with low self-esteem.

 

I'm concerned by the number of people in this thread who seem to agree with you. Believing that other people make us feel things leads us to blame and not taking responsibility for ourselves in relationships.

 

Mio, I read thru some of your posts just to get a feel for where you were coming from. I like to know who I am responding to, sometimes.

 

A few posts struck me (forgive me for the paraphrasing):

 

You "jumped" on another poster, said you "snapped" because he "high-fived" another poster, and that "MADE YOU FEEL" defensive.

 

The actions of another person made you feel a certain way.

 

This is the exact point I am trying to make here. People do have the power to make another person feel a certain way. Not only did that poster make you feel a certain way, but he made you react also.

 

 

In several of your posts you contemplate how you will deal with your ex-fiancee if she ever shows up at your door. You are concerned about hurting her. WHY? Because you know your actions are powerful and they can affect how she feels about herself, you, her situation. And you, being the decent human being that your are, don't want to hurt her by letting her down or leading her on.

 

If you believe the theory that no one can make another one feel a certain way, then you wouldn't care what you said to her. You could tell her to go ---- herself if she showed up at your door because hey, you wouldn't be responsible for how she felt hearing those words from you, right? Those tears, that dejection you might see from her...well, that would have nothing to do with you...that would just be something she concocted in her head all on her own, right?

 

Not trying to pick on you. You seem like a very kind-hearted person. Just wanted to use a few examples from you posts to make a point to other posters who contend no one has the power to make others feel a certain way.

[Geishawhelk]

Good point!

 

Do animals enter into a social construct called an exclusive and committed relationship and then lie, to cover up their cheating?

Oh no, that's a wonderful little bundle of complex behaviours we have created all for our little selves. That's why I said that our intellect is not always a good thing to have.

We have complicated our own lives 'sumphink chronic'. We are so very good at it, don't you think?

Animals also don't have pack leaders who say ridiculous things like "The majority of imported goods come from countries outside of our shores".

Yessiree, intellect is a might wunnerful thang!!

 

 

I just bolded the two phrases that impact, in a situation of exclusivity and cheating. We consciously enter into a social construct (non-instinctual) and then rationalize the lies by saying "she/he made me cheat, due to blah, blah, blah".

yup.

We put it out there, instead of owning it.

Like "I couldn't help it, it just happened."

 

Technically, human beings are the only species that can deceive themselves.

And I cannot argue with that! No 'technically' about it!

[Geishawhelk]

I also think people touch your heart and emotions and can affect we react. I for one, will never trust blindly again. I also don't see myself in a committed relationship every again. Mr. Messy's actions did affect my heart and therefore how I will react to any possible future relationships.

This is a classic case of a self-imposed restriction.

"Mr Messy" never said to you: "I am going to make you feel so insecure that you will decide to never trust anyone again". You decided that for yourself, on the basis of your experience. Nobody MADE you take this option. You have several open to you. You picked that one.

 

 

I have heard the animal instinct point of view and I still don't get why people equate themselves with the most base instincts of life.

Do you have lungs?

Do you lactate?

Do you bear live young?

Do you reproduce through regular copulation?

You are a mammal.

"People don't equate themselves" with anything.

It's a biological fact that you are a mammal.

It's the category that we as humans, fall into with regard to the zoological categorisation of species.

Whether you like it or not, whether you agree with it or not.

You are a mammal. And as such, you display some of the same behavioural characteristics of other mammals.

 

As human beings, shouldn't we hold ourselves above the lowest standards set?

What we should do, and what we do do, are two completely different things.

Sometimes the way humans behave is lower than the behaviour of the lowerst animal.

You sometimes hear certain heinous criminals being referred to as animals, which in my opinion is a great insult to animals.

 

I realize that most don't view life through my perceptions. But I truly live my life through what the Lord's guidelines.

Nobody says you can't or shouldn't.

but that doesn't change the fact that you're a mammal.

 

I fail, miserably on occasion, but I don't look to intentionally lie, cheat, betray, or hurt others because of the so called "feelings".

Yes 'you' do. (I don't mean you specifically. I mean you generically)

Why else would you do it?

What else drives a person to lie cheat and betray, if not feelings?

 

Yes, I have found myself attracted to other men(I'm not dead), but why entertain the thoughts and ideas of having another person's spouse. Thoughts if mulled over long enough, eventually lead to the "what if's" and then to a plan and then to action.

The fact that this is another person's spouse only comes into it intellectually. The urge to procreate and have sex with a member of the same species different to the one we are normally with, is instinctual.

put the two together, and there's a disaster waiting to happen.

The thought that we can do something, doesn't mean we should. Do we ever think through what effect our actions will have on others or even ourselves for that matter?

My point exactly.

if you can't keep it, don't give it. (The promise).

[Reggie]

On this issue of whether we can make folks feel things, to me, it is clear, we can, both by our actions and words.

I can think of myriad examples of one's actions or words causing others to feel joy, pain, etc.

If I shot someone's kid, can anyone say my actions did not cause pain and grief? If I berate someone, like one of my kids, she would feel pain and sadness. Clearly I caused this. I cannot understand this concept that the things we say and do to others does not cause them to feel cretain ways. I do not believe I would have any choice but to feel grief, anger or sadness etc if someone betrayed by infidelity.

[fral945]

I have heard the animal instinct point of view and I still don't get why people equate themselves with the most base instincts of life. As human beings, shouldn't we hold ourselves above the lowest standards set? I realize that most don't view life through my perceptions. But I truly live my life through what the Lord's guidelines. I fail, miserably on occasion, but I don't look to intentionally lie, cheat, betray, or hurt others because of the so called "feelings". Yes, I have found myself attracted to other men(I'm not dead), but why entertain the thoughts and ideas of having another person's spouse. Thoughts if mulled over long enough, eventually lead to the "what if's" and then to a plan and then to action.

 

Your perspective highlights religious differences more than anything else. Specifically the difference between a God centered religion (as most Western is) and those non-God centered (as most Eastern is) and the non-religious.

 

If I remember my biblical history correctly (since I was raised religious and went to Bible school), the Bible does say that man is superior to animal. I believe there are a number of quotes in the Bible that highlight the fact that man is "special" in God's eyes compared to animals. I don’t think any of the non-God centered religions teach that (thought I would be more than open to being corrected).

[65tr6]

According to your theory, only YOU can make YOU feel a certain way.

 

I don't buy it. A human being would have to be a robot of some sort to NOT FEEL something after his/her spouse cheated...anger, sadness, disgust, devalued, unappreciated, disrespected, etc. .

 

I have to agree with Taylor on this. I would have gone with Mio until ofcourse the trauma i just went through. I could have never imagined what spouses actions/words can do to damage other spouses self-esteem.

 

As i said before, they are particularly vulnerable if they bring low self-esteem into the marriage to begin with.

 

Why is that there are several books on "how to build self esteem in your children" ? I have read through some of them and they make complete sense. It changed the way i look at and bring up my dear son.

 

 

I know many people who ONCE had very high self-esteem whose life circumstances changed all that..

My high self esteem probably helped me survive the initial shock. I cannot even imagine what it could do to people already on low self-esteem. Would it destroy them ? I dont see why not ?

People do have the power to affect our self-esteem and our self-image.

That is why it is crucial that we as human beings treat each other with kindness and self-respect..

In other words, given a choice how would you like to be treated ? With respect and kindness ?...The answer is an overwhelming yes i would imagine. Another hard lesson i have learnt.

 

I will probably worry about the whatifs for rest of my life but one thing i know....it NEVER hurts to treat people with respect. That is the bottom line. And it could hurt people if you dont. Does that make sense ?

[Geishawhelk]

Your perspective highlights religious differences more than anything else. Specifically the difference between a God centered religion (as most Western is) and those non-God centered (as most Eastern is) and the non-religious.

 

If I remember my biblical history correctly (since I was raised religious and went to Bible school), the Bible does say that man is superior to animal. I believe there are a number of quotes in the Bible that highlight the fact that man is "special" in God's eyes compared to animals. I don’t think any of the non-God centered religions teach that (thought I would be more than open to being corrected).

 

By Eastern "non-God centred" religions, you're specifically referring to the abrahamic Biblical God? A lot of Eastern religions (most, bar one) have a Godehead.

Just maybe not the one within your concepts.

 

My non-God centred religion teaches to value all life equally, regardless, if it has a heartbeat and a mother.

[Trialbyfire]

On this issue of whether we can make folks feel things, to me, it is clear, we can, both by our actions and words.

I can think of myriad examples of one's actions or words causing others to feel joy, pain, etc.

If I shot someone's kid, can anyone say my actions did not cause pain and grief? If I berate someone, like one of my kids, she would feel pain and sadness. Clearly I caused this. I cannot understand this concept that the things we say and do to others does not cause them to feel cretain ways. I do not believe I would have any choice but to feel grief, anger or sadness etc if someone betrayed by infidelity.

Reg, would you say that everyone reacts identically to every type of action? For example, if two people, one you loved and trusted, the other, one you absolutely hated who dressed loudly, told you that they didn't like your shirt, would you react identically?

[taylor]

their behaviour may be reprehensible and misguided.How you react is up to you.

You have the Power to feel whichever way you want.

Own it, don't give it away.

 

Are you saying a wayward spouse should not feel guilty or remorseful for their actions because they are not responsible or to blame for how their BS feels in the aftermath of D-day?

 

What should a wayward spouse say when their partner is lying crushed and devastated on the floor..."get over it. I didn't make you feel that way. I don't control your feelings. You do, so own them."?????

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Nobody can make yuou feel inferior without your consent."

 

Tell this to a betrayed spouse on D-Day. Do you really think a betrayed spouse is going to say, "You're right. I feel so bad I want to die. But I don't mind feeling this way because I gave my wayward spouse permission to take control over my emotional state."

 

No person in their right mind would give another person permission to control and alter their emotional state to that degree. It isn't that they choose to relinquish control. In emotional situations, it appears the control gets lost or wrenched out of our hands. It takes time and effort to regain that control.

 

When a person dies, we grieve. Grief is a feeling. We allow ourselves to feel it..sometimes longer than we would like...sometimes more than we would like....until we can gain control. People sometimes sob uncontrollably. No matter how hard they try...they can't stop..the emotions are just too overwhelming.

 

Loss makes a person grieve. It's an emotional response...a feeling. Are you saying a person can just control these feelings...not feel them...if a person close to us dies, divorces us, or walks out of our lives? That that's all we have to do is not give that person permission to control us like that? We can all just put on a happy face because happy is a better feeling for us to experience than grief?

 

Your points make a lot of sense if human beings had brains but no hearts. The thing is we do have hearts and there is no denying the heart often takes control over the head in times of great emotional stress and turmoil...and sometimes for long periods of time.

 

And that is the way we as mammals are wired.

[Trialbyfire]

taylor, no one is saying you can necessarily control the emotion of the moment. But...you have the choice AND ability to affect how you react to the situation.

[Geishawhelk]

I could have never imagined what spouses actions/words can do to damage other spouses self-esteem.

 

Yes, I agree.... hence phrases like "The pen is mightier than the sword" and "Even the mightiest and swiftest army cannot retrieve the hurtful word once spoken".

But people are not getting it here.

It takes two to tango, the dynamics obviously only work if there are two people in the equasion.The Giver and the Receiver.

Sure, the giver must - absolutely MUST - take full responsibility for the things they say and do. It is after all what they are saying and doing that is under their control. It's their choice to say/do what they say/do.

 

The other part of the equasion or dynamic, is the receiver.

This is where your choice comes in.

Read this:

 

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One [The Buddha] was staying near Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels' Sanctuary. Then the Brahman Akkosaka Bharadvaja heard that a Brahman of the Bharadvaja clan had gone forth from the home life into homelessness in the presence of the Blessed One. Angered & displeased, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, insulted & cursed him with rude, harsh words.

 

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him: "Tell me, Brahman: Do friends & colleagues, relatives & kinsmen come to you as guests?"

 

"Yes, Master Gautama, sometimes friends & colleagues, relatives & kinsmen come to me as guests."

 

"And what do you do: Do you serve them with foods & delicacies?"

"Yes, sometimes I serve them with foods & delicacies."

 

"And if they don't accept them, then to whom do those foods belong?"

 

"If they don't accept them, Master Gautama, those foods are all still mine."

 

"In the same way, Brahman, that with which you have insulted me; that with which you have taunted me; that with which you have berated me: that I don't accept from you. It's all yours, Brahman. It's all yours.

 

"Whoever returns insult to one who is insulting, returns taunts to one who is taunting, returns a berating to one who is berating, is said to be eating together, sharing company, with that person. But I am neither eating together nor sharing your company, Brahman. It's all yours. It's all yours."

 

This is a very ancient Buddhist teaching which basically says:

Someone can hurl all the insults at you they want. If you refuse to take therm on board, that's their problem, not yours.

 

 

 

As i said before, they are particularly vulnerable if they bring low self-esteem into the marriage to begin with.

And whose responsibility is that?

 

 

In other words, given a choice how would you like to be treated ? With respect and kindness ?...The answer is an overwhelming yes i would imagine. Another hard lesson i have learnt

How you want to be treated, is one matter.

How you will be treated is probably another.

How you respond to either treatment, is your choice.

[Reggie]

Reg, would you say that everyone reacts identically to every type of action? For example, if two people, one you loved and trusted, the other, one you absolutely hated who dressed loudly, told you that they didn't like your shirt, would you react identically?

No, we react differently depending on a variety of factors. The closer someone is to you, the more you have let him or her into your heart, the more vulnerable you are to feeling things in response to their actions.

Still, the concept that we choose to feel things makes no sense to me. We have some control over how long it takes us to get over things, I suppose or how we let our feelings affect our actions etc. But, I know for a fact that I could make someone feel something through my words and actions. I think I could make an animal feel things by the way I treat it, as well.

[fral945]

By Eastern "non-God centred" religions, you're specifically referring to the abrahamic Biblical God? A lot of Eastern religions (most, bar one) have a Godehead.

Just maybe not the one within your concepts.

Yes, I agree. My impression of Eastern religion is that "God" is immanent in creation (not separate), while in Western religion, "God" is transcendent and separate.

[Trialbyfire]

No, we react differently depending on a variety of factors. The closer someone is to you, the more you have let him or her into your heart, the more vulnerable you are to feeling things in response to their actions.

Still, the concept that we choose to feel things makes no sense to me. We have some control over how long it takes us to get over things, I suppose or how we let our feelings affect our actions etc. But, I know for a fact that I could make someone feel something through my words and actions. I think I could make an animal feel things by the way I treat it, as well.

I won't disagree that allowing someone closer to you, opens up vulnerabilities. But...say someone you're in love with, tells you they hate your shirt and how you dress, on a consistent basis. Would that cause you to cheat, tell them to stop the negativity or let them dress you? Notice the three choices?

[Geishawhelk]

No, we react differently depending on a variety of factors. The closer someone is to you, the more you have let him or her into your heart, the more vulnerable you are to feeling things in response to their actions.

 

Precisely. Your responses to a stimulus.

You act something out. They respond. you respond to that response. life is a constant to-and-fro of responses to stimulii.

 

 

Still, the concept that we choose to feel things makes no sense to me. We have some control over how long it takes us to get over things, I suppose or how we let our feelings affect our actions etc.

 

Sorry.

You can't pick and choose this. Your reponses are designed to make you react in the best way to preserve your well-being and existence. you don't abdicate that to anyone else. It's all yours. there's no 'some control' about it.

But, I know for a fact that I could make someone feel something through my words and actions.

 

Exactly. They would respond to your approach. But sometimes, we get an unexpected response. Sometimes, someone reacts in a way you weren't waiting to get.

That's because they took it in a different way to the way you intended.

Their choice.

 

I think I could make an animal feel things by the way I treat it, as well.

 

Stroke a cat, it will purr.

poke a cat, it will scratch.

These are instictive responses to pleasure and pain.

we do that too.

 

And so it is with words.

But we have the intellectual level to be able to discern and interpret.

Or we think we can.

Either way, we choose how to respond.

 

Do you really not get this?

Nobody else can get into our heads and evaluate what we perceive.

Therefore, nobody else can get into our heads to manipulate our response.