BOREDOM...#1 reason men/women cheat

[Reggie]

taylor, no one is saying you can necessarily control the emotion of the moment. But...you have the choice AND ability to affect how you react to the situation.

 

Well, yeah, of course a person has control over his or her response. But, wasn't the concept presented that a person alone chooses his or her "feelings" at all times? To me, that proposition is indefensible. We could put it to the test, thogh.

Perhaps someone advocating this position would be willing to let someone harm him or her or a loved one. We could forewarn the person and let him know it was coming and he should choose to feel happy about this, so as not to make the expierience unpleasant. That would work, right? Wish someone had told my about this theory when my dad died. Could have saved me tons of pain had i known I could have just chosen to feel hungry or somthing.

[taylor]

The Bible says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

 

If that was one of the 10 commandments, there would be no need for any of the others, IMO.

 

This quote speaks volumes. If people's actions and words didn't affect others in profound ways, there would be no need to follow this "guideline."

 

It's God's way of trying to keep us from hurting each other in word and action.

[65tr6]

Would that cause you to cheat, tell them to stop the negativity or let them dress you? Notice the three choices?

there is a fourth choice....they actually believe that you are right....even though they know it hurts them and hurting builds to the point that they start to look for an exit...

[Geishawhelk]

Well, yeah, of course a person has control over his or her response. But, wasn't the concept presented that a person alone chooses his or her "feelings" at all times? To me, that proposition is indefensible. We could put it to the test, thogh.

Perhaps someone advocating this position would be willing to let someone harm him or her or a loved one. We could forewarn the person and let him know it was coming and he should choose to feel happy about this, so as not to make the expierience unpleasant. That would work, right? Wish someone had told my about this theory when my dad died. Could have saved me tons of pain had i known I could have just chosen to feel hungry or somthing.

Where has anyone said you shouldn't feel these things?

 

But sometime, people hang on to the sense of pain for far longer than is good for them.

Pain has a purpose. But it should also have an end. it's unhealthy to perpetuate a negative feeling simply because you won't let it go.

 

WE have all lost loved ones. Dying happens all the time. Heck, I'm dying at the moment.

And so, for that matter, are you.

It's a definite.

Just the timing is a mystery.

The sooner you become comfortable with that knowledge, the less the Pain of bereavement can hurt you.

[Reggie]

Precisely. Your responses to a stimulus.

You act something out. They respond. you respond to that response. life is a constant to-and-fro of responses to stimulii.

 

 

 

 

Sorry.

You can't pick and choose this. Your reponses are designed to make you react in the best way to preserve your well-being and existence. you don't abdicate that to anyone else. It's all yours. there's no 'some control' about it.

 

Exactly. They would respond to your approach. But sometimes, we get an unexpected response. Sometimes, someone reacts in a way you weren't waiting to get.

That's because they took it in a different way to the way you intended.

Their choice.

 

 

 

Stroke a cat, it will purr.

poke a cat, it will scratch.

These are instictive responses to pleasure and pain.

we do that too.

 

And so it is with words.

But we have the intellectual level to be able to discern and interpret.

Or we think we can.

Either way, we choose how to respond.

 

Do you really not get this?

Nobody else can get into our heads and evaluate what we perceive.

Therefore, nobody else can get into our heads to manipulate our response.

 

I get the concept, but do not feel it reflects reality. You say we are animals and I agree. Animals, dogs , cats, etc. display emotions in response to things that are said to them.

Where'd you come up with the concept that noone can get into your head. Someone could do all types of things to you to make you feel certain emotions.

[Geishawhelk]

The Bible says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

 

If that was one of the 10 commandments, there would be no need for any of the others, IMO.

 

This quote speaks volumes. If people's actions and words didn't affect others in profound ways, there would be no need to follow this "guideline."

 

It's God's way of trying to keep us from hurting each other in word and action.

No, it's God's way of getting people to behave. It's about adjusting your behaviour and treating people the way you'd like to be treated. There isn't anything there about "affecting others" or hurting other people's feelings.

God's guidelines are to adjust personal behaviour in order to be Godly.

[Geishawhelk]

I get the concept, but do not feel it reflects reality. You say we are animals and I agree. Animals, dogs , cats, etc. display emotions in response to things that are said to them.

Actually, no they don't.

You're talking to a professional Dog behaviourist here, so I'm telling you categorically, animals have absolutely NO IDEA whatsoever what you are saying to them.

They respond to actions and behaviour. Words as a language, mean diddly-squat to them.

 

Where'd you come up with the concept that noone can get into your head. Someone could do all types of things to you to make you feel certain emotions.

I didn't come up with the notion. But I know it through triel and experience to be true.

Someone could do all types of things that if I let them - could make me feel certain emotions. How i actually feel, is my choice.

I don't let anybody into my head if i don't want them there.

Why should I?

[Reggie]

Where has anyone said you shouldn't feel these things?

 

But sometime, people hang on to the sense of pain for far longer than is good for them.

Pain has a purpose. But it should also have an end. it's unhealthy to perpetuate a negative feeling simply because you won't let it go.

 

WE have all lost loved ones. Dying happens all the time. Heck, I'm dying at the moment.

And so, for that matter, are you.

It's a definite.

Just the timing is a mystery.

The sooner you become comfortable with that knowledge, the less the Pain of bereavement can hurt you.

Geish, I'm certain I am going to die and not too bent out of shape about it.(made my 9 first Fridays, so I have the plenary indulgence going for me)

I was under the impression that the theory proposed was that noone, at anytime , can make another feel something. I don't dispute that pain has a purpose and it is best to get past it at some point. We were not talking about someone actively trying to hold onto an unpleasant feeling too long. Maybe I missed this but were'nt you and Mio proposing that the entire responsibility for a felling lays with the feeler?

[taylor]

No, it's God's way of getting people to behave. It's about adjusting your behaviour and treating people the way you'd like to be treated. There isn't anything there about "affecting others" or hurting other people's feelings.

God's guidelines are to adjust personal behaviour in order to be Godly.

 

 

Semantics again.

 

If you are doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, you are behaving. And if you are behaving, you aren't hurting anyone by what you do. And if you aren't hurting anyone, you are acting godly.

[Trialbyfire]

Well, yeah, of course a person has control over his or her response. But, wasn't the concept presented that a person alone chooses his or her "feelings" at all times? To me, that proposition is indefensible. We could put it to the test, thogh.

Perhaps someone advocating this position would be willing to let someone harm him or her or a loved one. We could forewarn the person and let him know it was coming and he should choose to feel happy about this, so as not to make the expierience unpleasant. That would work, right? Wish someone had told my about this theory when my dad died. Could have saved me tons of pain had i known I could have just chosen to feel hungry or somthing.

If someone harms a loved one, you have the choice of putting a bullet between their eyes, reporting the crime to the authorities or whatever way you deem is best.

[Reggie]

Actually, no they don't.

You're talking to a professional Dog behaviourist here, so I'm telling you categorically, animals have absolutely NO IDEA whatsoever what you are saying to them.

They respond to actions and behaviour. Words as a language, mean diddly-squat to them.

 

 

I didn't come up with the notion. But I know it through triel and experience to be true.

Someone could do all types of things that if I let them - could make me feel certain emotions. How i actually feel, is my choice.

I don't let anybody into my head if i don't want them there.

Why should I?

I have not profesional training with dogs, but I've had many dogs and was always very tight with them. I don't think I'm anthropromorphizing when I say that I've seen my dogs frightened, or angry or happy. I know they ay not understand the substance of what i ma saying. But, events, actions, them etc make them feel things.

Seems like a bit of an inconsistency that you feel we are like animals or are animals(semantics), yet they are unlike us in this regard.

I'd bet you a hot dog that someone you care about could hurt you by saying something mean, nasty, callus, unkingd or whatever and you could not control your initial response in feeling something. You might be able to move the feling away or change it relatively quickly. But, that is not what your theory is about. It is about complete control over feelings by way of choice. Otherwise, you are simply talking about the rapidity with which certtain folks can procees and recover form feelings as compared to thers. And, that is not what was being put forth, initially.

[Trialbyfire]

there is a fourth choice....they actually believe that you are right....even though they know it hurts them and hurting builds to the point that they start to look for an exit...

But that's just it. You have choices on how you react. You might feel a certain way but you don't have to act on it.

 

It's the same as cheating. You don't have to cheat if someone hurts you and continues to hurt you. You have the choice to walk.

[Reggie]

Sorry about all the typos. (more than usual), Had my eyes dilated for an eye exam.

[Phateless]

It means it's up to both parties to find ways to keep things exciting.

[Reggie]

I won't disagree that allowing someone closer to you, opens up vulnerabilities. But...say someone you're in love with, tells you they hate your shirt and how you dress, on a consistent basis. Would that cause you to cheat, tell them to stop the negativity or let them dress you? Notice the three choices?

 

Trial, I think we have control over how we react to our feelings, no question. To be honest, if someone I loved was constantly criticizing my dress, I bet my love would die. It would show me she was superficial and insensitive. Then, I would get out.

[Trialbyfire]

Trial, I think we have control over how we react to our feelings, no question. To be honest, if someone I loved was constantly criticizing my dress, I bet my love would die. It would show me she was superficial and insensitive. Then, I would get out.

Then we're in agreement.

 

Your love would die and then you would walk. So...why wouldn't you cheat first, since it's the easiest way to get external validation for the erosion of your self-esteem?

[taylor]

Someone could do all types of things that if I let them - could make me feel certain emotions. How i actually feel, is my choice.

I don't let anybody into my head if i don't want them there.

Why should I?

 

Someone could torture and murder your family right in front of you and you could CHOOSE how you would FEEL about that? You have a CHOICE how you would feel? You could actually NOT LET that murderer into your head? You could choose to not let that situation affect you for days, months, years? You have that much control over your heart?

 

I think you are trying to look too logically and intellectually at human emotions which are not logical or cannot just be explained away by intellectual analysis. You ignore the powerful role the heart plays in all that we are and all that we do.

[Geishawhelk]

I have not profesional training with dogs, but I've had many dogs and was always very tight with them. I don't think I'm anthropromorphizing when I say that I've seen my dogs frightened, or angry or happy. I know they ay not understand the substance of what i ma saying. But, events, actions, them etc make them feel things.

Yes but this is instinctive behaviour. We also have these responses to outside stimulii.

Animals do get frightened or angry or happy.

They also get over it a lot damn quicker than we do. They have feelings and emotions. They just don't have agendas.

but if the prompt to stimulate fear or anger is always there, a dog will always be fearful or angry.

Thjis is a natural defensive and self-protective response. Which we share.

Seems like a bit of an inconsistency that you feel we are like animals or are animals(semantics), yet they are unlike us in this regard.

Where have I said that? Could you point it out to me please?

 

I'd bet you a hot dog that someone you care about could hurt you by saying something mean, nasty, callus, unkingd or whatever and you could not control your initial response in feeling something.

Y

I can and do. As a Counsellor, you learn these things.

You might be able to move the feling away or change it relatively quickly. But, that is not what your theory is about. It is about complete control over feelings by way of choice. Otherwise, you are simply talking about the rapidity with which certtain folks can procees and recover form feelings as compared to thers. And, that is not what was being put forth, initially.

 

Actually, my first thought in any situation is:

What is this person trying to achieve?

 

The mind is a "muscle" that can be trained, just like any other in the body.

You learn a new skill, you practice and you become good at the exercise.

Initially, what you outline is true. in time, it becomes natural and immediate.

 

So this is what the crux of the discussion is.

That people are able to evince responses from us.

I say they only can if we let them.

 

What we think, is our intital concern.

How we manifest that thought - instantly or over time - is our choice.

 

Granted it might take practice.

but it can be done.

[Reggie]

Then we're in agreement.

 

Your love would die and then you would walk. So...why wouldn't you cheat first, since it's the easiest way to get external validation for the erosion of your self-esteem?

 

Not sure if it is the easiest. Regardless, I would not cheat for the same reasons most folks don't-it's wrong, dishonest, cruel, abusive, etc.

[65tr6]

but you don't have to act on it. .

trial, i agree and i may be sounding like i am defending my wife but in some cases, they are already checked out of the marriage (it is over for them as far they are concerned, the relationship, the marriage, the family it does not matter)..the feelings are so strong that they actually act on it. It starts out harmlessly with a lunch or water cooler talk but before they know it, they are addicted. They are completely sucked in.

[65tr6]

Not sure if it is the easiest. Regardless, I would not cheat for the same reasons most folks don't-it's wrong, dishonest, cruel, abusive, etc.

Reggie, honestly, are you not saying that only because you have seen the hurt it causes ? Could have said that before your wife's A ?

[Reggie]

Sorry if I attributed the debate about humans being animals to you , G. I may have had you mixed up with someone else.

In any case, in my profession, I have to deal with my emotional response to stimuli fairly rapidly, as well. Nevertheless, there is the inital flicker of a feeling preceeding my processing it and dealing with it. My "mind/muscle " training has evolved to the point where I can let things go(most of the time) that are adversely affecting me fairly rapidly so as not to let them interefere with my actions.

But, at least for me, and I suspect you, too, the initial stimuli does evoke a feeling and it happens way too fast to say one can prevent feeling it entirely.

[taylor]

Reg, would you say that everyone reacts identically to every type of action? For example, if two people, one you loved and trusted, the other, one you absolutely hated who dressed loudly, told you that they didn't like your shirt, would you react identically?

 

You value the opinion of the person you love and trust. So his criticism of the way you dress will have a far greater impact on your feelings and on the way you react.

 

If it was a random criticism, I might just ignore it.

 

If it was a series of criticisms about the way I dressed, I might alter the way I dressed to please the one I love.

 

If the criticism about the way I dressed was in addition to criticism about my hair, my teeth, my weight, my intelligence, my mothering abilities, etc., it would start to affect my sense of self-esteem.

 

Over a long period of time, the erosion of my self-esteem would do one of three things:

 

1. Brainwash me into believing I am worthless and that no one else would have me but him.

 

2. Make me want to get rid of the source of all the pain..walk away and divorce.

 

3. Make me want to soak up the validation I got from another man who valued who I was as a person and whose words and actions bolstered my self esteem.

 

In all three cases, feelings and self-esteem are affected by the spouse's actions. In all three cases the responses are different because of how a person is "wired" to deal with those feelings.

 

A person chooses how to react to the feelings they are having, but it is undeniable the feelings were generated by the continual criticism of the spouse.

[Trialbyfire]

Not sure if it is the easiest. Regardless, I would not cheat for the same reasons most folks don't-it's wrong, dishonest, cruel, abusive, etc.

It's easiest from the perspective that you don't need to go through the divorce process or that you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

Exactly. That's a choice.

 

trial, i agree and i may be sounding like i am defending my wife but in some cases, they are already checked out of the marriage (it is over for them as far they are concerned, the relationship, the marriage, the family it does not matter)..the feelings are so strong that they actually act on it. It starts out harmlessly with a lunch or water cooler talk but before they know it, they are addicted. They are completely sucked in.

No, you cannot say they get completely sucked in. That suggests that people have no choice. The vows are between you and your wife.

 

The third party enabled your wife to commit adultery, thus bears responsibility for his actions but your wife is responsible for maintaining the vows between the two of you. Her affair partner is the get-away car driver and your wife has the gun, who goes into the store and robs it.

[Trialbyfire]

1. Brainwash me into believing I am worthless and that no one else would have me but him.

 

2. Make me want to get rid of the source of all the pain..walk away and divorce.

 

3. Make me want to soak up the validation I got from another man who valued who I was as a person and whose words and actions bolstered my self esteem.

 

In all three cases, feelings and self-esteem are affected by the spouse's actions. In all three cases the responses are different because of how a person is "wired" to deal with those feelings.

 

A person chooses how to react to the feelings they are having, but it is undeniable the feelings were generated by the continual criticism of the spouse.

You have choices. Each person takes actions. No one is forced to cheat.