BOREDOM...#1 reason men/women cheat

[amerikajin]

Sounds like bull****. We should be with a person because of the way you feel about yourself? Fff, then you should be a hermit.

 

Duh, that we should all have a feeling of self-worth, and be self-fulfilled, but how does that not depend, in no small measure, on others? We don't live in a vacuum. There wouldn't be works of art, music, or anything else nice if it weren't for people wanting to impress, and then share their talents. It is impossible to disentangle ourselves completely from the feelings of others and our feelings for them. Sometimes the route to heaven is through hell. It's just another route, just another way.

 

You have many wise words Geishawhelk, but the above is just your arrogance. Whatev, if it helps you get through your day.

 

Saville

 

I get the feeling you might have misunderstood what she was trying to say, though you might be interpreting her correctly after all. But I think what she is saying is that you need to have a sense of self-worth, a sense of self-confidence, so that your happiness doesn't depend entirely upon someone else. I think what she is pointing out is that some people go through life and say "I'm not happy with this person anymore -- they don't do it for me anymore. She doesn't look good enough, and I deserve someone who looks better. She doesn't love me the way she used to, and I deserve someone who loves me more. I'm not happy with my lot in life because I'm with the wrong person. It's her job to make me feel better, and since she's not making me feel better, it must be her fault that I'm not. So I need to find someone else." And when these people do finally find someone else, they go through the same cycle of the initial highs of being in love and eventually falling into the same patterns of burnout again and again - until they realize that they -- not their partners -- are ultimately responsible for their own happiness and sense of satisfaction.

[amerikajin]

Humans and human relationships are incredibly complex. I am just not convinced that humans were necessarily meant to have one lover in life. I think this is especially obvious in modernized Western societies in which women are encouraged to have just as much of an individual identity as their male counterparts. In societies where the gender roles are well-defined, cheating may be more difficult, not because someone isn't tempted to cheat, but because the logistics of doing it and the ramifications of being exposed make cheating a losing proposition. Take the Middle East for example...women there are pretty much confined to being housewives. Yet men are allowed to have more than one lover, and it's not even considered "cheating." But put the two on a level playing field, empower both sides, give freedom and choice to both participants in a relationship, and things are very complex.

[showmethemoney]

Taylor your right, a spouses action can lower a persons self-esteem but I don't believe that that is the norm. Many people bring their childhood experiences into a marriage as well, so the above cases you pointed out could have come from the a spouses parents. In this case the insecurities are already in place and once the honeymoon high wears off the self-esteem issues will take hold. I can tell you from experience that there is nothing a spouse can do to make their significant other fell better. The kindness is not viewed as genuine because the spouse is quote 'supposed to do this'. Your damed if you do damed if you don't.

[taylor]

Taylor your right, a spouses action can lower a persons self-esteem but I don't believe that that is the norm. Many people bring their childhood experiences into a marriage as well, so the above cases you pointed out could have come from the a spouses parents. In this case the insecurities are already in place and once the honeymoon high wears off the self-esteem issues will take hold. I can tell you from experience that there is nothing a spouse can do to make their significant other fell better. The kindness is not viewed as genuine because the spouse is quote 'supposed to do this'. Your damed if you do damed if you don't.

 

Showmethemoney, I agree with you 100 %.

 

I think a person's sense of self-worth is formed and defined by a compilation of life experiences (childhood, adolescence, young adult life, married life, career path, etc.) and a vast number of interpersonal relationships with other people, not limited to, but most certainly, includes parents, teachers, siblings, friends, and spouses.

 

I also think each person tends to define their own self worth by a set of criteria they hold themselves to.

 

For example, a man may define his self-worth by his job. If he loses that job, he devalues himself.

 

A woman may define herself by her beauty. When that beauty fades, she devalues herself.

 

A man may define his self-worth by his athletic prowess. If he acquires a debilitating disease, he will devalue himself.

 

A woman may define her self-worth by her ability to care for everyone around her. If she falls ill to disease and needs to depend on someone else for care, she devalues herself.

 

Spouses are not responsible for their SO's happiness. But they do play a part in defining their SO's sense of self worth/value as do numerous other factors.

 

And you are right. If a spouse loses his/her sense of self-worth for whatever reason, there is only so much a spouse can do to help. Regaining a sense of self worth is an inner journey.

[65tr6]

The woman whose husband would rather hold the remote control than her. She questions her desireability as a woman...lowers her self-esteem. she cheats. Feels confident as a woman again..

taylor, your posts are always profound and to the point. And your point about how their self esteem is affected by people they came in contact, especially the SO, is so spot on. Makes me feel even more guilty that i could have done something to prevent my wife from cheating. I know it was her choice but the question is what was the trigger. Combine that with their upbringing experience that they bring to the marriage it is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

[taylor]

taylor, your posts are always profound and to the point. And your point about how their self esteem is affected by people they came in contact, especially the SO, is so spot on. Makes me feel even more guilty that i could have done something to prevent my wife from cheating. I know it was her choice but the question is what was the trigger. Combine that with their upbringing experience that they bring to the marriage it is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.

 

Thanks, 65tr6, for the kind words.

 

But I am concerned you miss my point here a little.

 

As a spouse, you play a PART in defining your wife's sense of self-esteem/value.

 

BUT, you certainly are not the only factor. Many life experiences and her interactions and relationships with many other people all combined together define her sense of self-worth. You alone are not responsible for your wife's sense of self worth. You alone are not responsible for how she values herself.

 

Sit her down and ask her what makes her feel valued as a person. Tell her to make a list. Ask her what makes her feel good about herself. Tell her to make a list.

 

I will guarantee not everything on that list will hinge on you.

 

You did nothing to make your wife cheat. She is unhappy with herself. It's internal.

 

Is your wife in IC? She needs to find the source of her unhappiness...the trigger. It's not you! She needs to explore WHY she made the decision to cheat.

[65tr6]

But I am concerned you miss my point here a little..

taylor, i have not. I thought you would say that. I have gone back and forth on this trying to convince myself it was her choice and I will take my share of the blame for the bad marriage and not the affair. But as they say Affair is just a symptom, am i am now thinking it was the bad marriage that was one of the triggers....not the only one I agree....May be acted as a significant trigger given the fact that she spent most of the time with me.

 

Let me ask you this...If, on the other hand, had I done things to add to her self-worth, self-esteem, would this still have happened ? The answer is a NO. I dont know why i am thinking this way. But i hope it does not eat me alive ! (just kidding)

 

 

Is your wife in IC? She needs to find the source of her unhappiness...the trigger. It's not you! She needs to explore WHY she made the decision to cheat.

Yes she is. And she knows it is not me but it is so strange why i have been thinking this way lately. I hope it is another phase that i will get through fairly quickly.

[taylor]

Another thought 65...

 

People get married because they want to make the person they are in love with happy. But they also get married because they believe, and expect, the other person to, likewise, make them happy.

 

When either spouse becomes unhappy somewhere along the line, they tend to blame the other for their unhappiness when, in fact, that unhappiness can have a zillion other sources.

 

Do not feel guilty or take the blame for your wife's unhappiness.

 

When I lost my OM, I wrote in my journal, "I lost my only source of happiness."

 

How ridiculous that sounds to me now. He wasn't my only source of happiness.

 

Simultaneously, I blamed my husband for all of my unhappiness. How ridiculous that sounds now.

 

The true sources of my unhappiness..and self-esteem issues had nothing to do with my husband or my marriage. It took my 6 months of IC to figure this out.

[taylor]

Let me ask you this...If, on the other hand, had I done things to add to her self-worth, self-esteem, would this still have happened ? The answer is a NO. I dont know why i am thinking this way. But i hope it does not eat me alive ! (just kidding)

 

You are going to drive yourself crazy with the "what ifs." So stop that, ya hear? My husband did the same thing early on in recovery.

But what works better is that now we both view the affair as a "wake-up" call to fix the marriage...from this day forward. Playing the blame game serves no purpose. Beating yourself over the head doesn't work either.It is evident from your posts that you are working hard to understand what happened in your marriage and to rectify it. Do it as a united front with your wife.

 

 

Yes she is. And she knows it is not me but it is so strange why i have been thinking this way lately. I hope it is another phase that i will get through fairly quickly.

 

Then believe her. Believe in yourself. That you are a good man and a good husband. And have faith that you and your wife together can create a marriage better than the one you had.

 

Glad your wife is in IC. It's a long process. Hang in there.

[soserious1]

I got really "bored" trying to survive in a sexless marriage with a man who expected me to be happy and grateful to live as brother and sister while he

scoured the web and craigslist for porn and local young hotties. He was "bored"

with my aging face and body, "bored" with all the work it took to try to perform sexually with me.

 

My Ex's actions hurt my self-esteem something fierce, I doubt I will ever again seek any sort of committed relationship and I will most certainly never marry again.

 

Of course, my response to my "boredom" was to gracefully accept sleeping on the sofa for a year and having to find/pay for a divorce lawyer as well as accepting the fact that my poor choice in picking a husband meant I'd be paying alimony.. the thought of cheating never occured to me.

[Saville]

I get the feeling you might have misunderstood what she was trying to say, though you might be interpreting her correctly after all. But I think what she is saying is that you need to have a sense of self-worth, a sense of self-confidence, so that your happiness doesn't depend entirely upon someone else. I think what she is pointing out is that some people go through life and say "I'm not happy with this person anymore -- they don't do it for me anymore. She doesn't look good enough, and I deserve someone who looks better. She doesn't love me the way she used to, and I deserve someone who loves me more. I'm not happy with my lot in life because I'm with the wrong person. It's her job to make me feel better, and since she's not making me feel better, it must be her fault that I'm not. So I need to find someone else." And when these people do finally find someone else, they go through the same cycle of the initial highs of being in love and eventually falling into the same patterns of burnout again and again - until they realize that they -- not their partners -- are ultimately responsible for their own happiness and sense of satisfaction.

 

Wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood something. I agree that we can't blame a partner, because they also have their own shyt to deal with. They are human beings who are muddling through, and are products of their upbringing, just like we are. However, sometimes one spouse does become "undervalued" in the relationship, and their SO is happy to maintain this status-quo, because their life feels fine. In cases where the couple married in their twenties, and they both sort of developed together without developing healthy boundaries, along with communication techniques, it can be difficult for a deflated spouse to even see themselves as whole anymore. It is all very well to say we should enter relationships when we have it "all together," but that is so seldom the case. Anyway, the deflated spouse has become used to accepting their second-class status, and not even recognizing that there is a serious imbalance in the relationship. Of course, the SO may also have become habituated to this imbalance, and accept it as normal. However, the spouse who is dominant, shall we say, seldom redresses any imbalance unless they are forced to do so. They seldom wake up one day and think..."Hell, I need to uplift my spouse more, and make sure I'm not hogging all the limelight and continually stealing their thunder." You can say they never meant to, that it was unconscious, but they certainly weren't shunning being first and foremost in the relationship.

 

So, it comes down to the deflated spouse to change things, if they can. Sometimes a deflated spouse can shake themselves free of this inequitable relationship of their own accord, but it usually takes some kind of remarkable catalyst. This catalyst can come in the form of another person, of course, highlighting just what a catch you. This in turn can open the floodgates for an affair.

 

To give you an example, my wife used to say things to the children like "The reason your father failed was ....." I accepted this from her. In fact, I would usually join in and agree that they mustn't become a failure like their father. Well, one day I got a illness, it doesn't matter which one, but it shook me awake. It began a journey of self-discovery where I would no longer brook this kind of overt criticism of my person. My wife thought I had gone fu/cking nuts, and in no way appreciated the new, powered up, enlightened husband. Did she cause my suffering? Well, no, not exactly because she didn't create the circumstances of my life, but she sure as hell never thought about throwing me a life-line when I was spiraling down the toilet. Is this justification for cheating?...well, everyone will have their own opinion on that.

 

We can all throw down platitudes that invoke us to "love ourselves," etc, but the fact is, we are part of a warped society, whose values create polarities in order to keep us penned in. We are coerced into behaving ourselves by the lies that have been promulgated over and over again, and that then shaped our many belief systems. As such, whether cheater or Saint, we are all playing our part. There is great beauty in the ideal of fidelity, but that does not negate the beauty of loving another, even if that comes through breaching that ideal.

 

I don't have any answers, but I think I have lived long enough to know that even God colours outside the lines.

 

Saville

[Mio]

Sorry, but I don't agree with this.

 

People can and do have the power to make a person FEEL a certain way by the things they say and the things they do. People also have the power to affect a person's sense of self worth by the things they say or do.

 

I'm sorry you don't agree. That unfortunately puts you at odds with all psychologists

 

I think I read that you had 6 months of IC? Surely they explained this to you? We only feel stuff because of the way we interpret things. A person with good self-esteem is not affected by the same words that would crumble a person with low self-esteem.

 

I'm concerned by the number of people in this thread who seem to agree with you. Believing that other people make us feel things leads us to blame and not taking responsibility for ourselves in relationships.

[Saville]

I'm sorry you don't agree. That unfortunately puts you at odds with all psychologists

At one time hand washing was thought of little use in hospitals.

 

I think I read that you had 6 months of IC? Surely they explained this to you? We only feel stuff because of the way we interpret things. A person with good self-esteem is not affected by the same words that would crumble a person with low self-esteem.

Uhm, yeah, that's because the person with low self-esteem is affected by the other person. Duh! Even Budda, Christ, and the Smurfs see things through their own filters. Obviously if a person felt so great about themselves they wouldn't feel hemmed in to a corner to begin with. I don't think we need a psychologist to tell us if we are bummed, negative things affect us more than when we are happy.

 

I'm concerned by the number of people in this thread who seem to agree with you. Believing that other people make us feel things leads us to blame and not taking responsibility for ourselves in relationships.

Boy, that is a lot of concern you are carrying around...divest, divest, don't take it all so personally. Other people DO make us feel things. They make us feel horny for one, it's why some people have affairs. Some kid on the bus one day kicked my daughter and pushed her to the ground...he made me mad. Not his upbringing, although I wouldn't preclude that, not the fact that he was a little shyt, but the fact that he decided he had the right to beat someone up. People clicking their pens annoy me, as does a spouse who won't support the dignity of their SO...and down the line it goes.

 

Saying that others don't make you "feel" shyt, is just Dr. Phil claptrap, the kind of pyschology that is prevalent in todays environs. In twenty years maybe they'll be telling people that "ownership" is the most selfish of concepts, and has no place in counselling.

 

So, I'm depressed, I'm down, I couldn't identify a need of mine if you waved it in my face...do you really think, that in this state, I can own my behaviour if someone significant in my life is doing their darndest to hold me down?

 

Yeah, I get the whole this is my feeling that is yours, but again, to think that we operate in a vacuum is just nonsense.

 

Saville

[Trialbyfire]

I'm sorry you don't agree. That unfortunately puts you at odds with all psychologists

 

I think I read that you had 6 months of IC? Surely they explained this to you? We only feel stuff because of the way we interpret things. A person with good self-esteem is not affected by the same words that would crumble a person with low self-esteem.

 

I'm concerned by the number of people in this thread who seem to agree with you. Believing that other people make us feel things leads us to blame and not taking responsibility for ourselves in relationships.

I don't know if this is what you're trying to say but here goes what I think and agree with:

 

If someone makes us feel negativity in some way, we as adults, have the ability to analyze that feeling, to interpret if it's their actions, our interpretation of their actions or a combination of both.

 

We, as adults, have the ability to then take action, whether that action is internal, external or a combination of both.

 

It's the action we take, that defines us as people. When someone cheats for whatever reason, they've defined themselves. If someone chooses to try to fix the problems but then finds that they're insurmountable for whatever reason, then walks, they've defined themselves.

[Geishawhelk]

If someone makes us feel negativity in some way, we as adults, have the ability to analyze that feeling

yes....Or rather, if we react negatively to what they say/do....then the analysis comes in.....

 

, to interpret if it's their actions,

...It isn't....

 

our interpretation of their actions

yes.....

 

or a combination of both.

 

Nope.

It is always, but always our Reactions ONLY, to something, that determines our negativity.

There is the stimulus.

How we react to this stimulus is entirely our choice.

 

We, as adults, have the ability to then take action, whether that action is internal, external or a combination of both.

Yup, this is right.

 

It's the action we take, that defines us as people. When someone cheats for whatever reason, they've defined themselves. If someone chooses to try to fix the problems but then finds that they're insurmountable for whatever reason, then walks, they've defined themselves.

 

So you see, everyone fixes themselves, by perceiving things that need fixing.

You can't fix others. And you can't lay the responsibility for the way you perceive and react to things at the feet of others.

They may be to blame for what they do - but that's their bag. How you pick it up and carry it - if indeed you do at all - is yours.

 

Duh! Even Budda, Christ, and the Smurfs see things through their own filters.

 

The Buddha had no filters. he was an Enlightened or awakened being. The veil had dropped from his eyes, as the sutras say. An Enlightened being has no filters because they See Things As They Really Are.

 

Just thought I'd comment.

[Trialbyfire]

yes....Or rather, if we react negatively to what they say/do....then the analysis comes in.....

Perhaps a better way to have worded it, is "if we're experiencing negativity".

 

...It isn't....

I would have to disagree, in that abusive behaviour is negative. Say someone is always looking for a fight, agitating for it consistently, then this would be abusive behaviour, thus they are enacting this upon us.

 

Nope.

It is always, but always our Reactions ONLY, to something, that determines our negativity.

There is the stimulus.

How we react to this stimulus is entirely our choice.

Once again, say someone has chosen to enact abusive behaviour, this is negativity. I do agree we have the choice to react a certain way.

 

So you see, everyone fixes themselves, by perceiving things that need fixing.

You can't fix others. And you can't lay the responsibility for the way you perceive and react to things at the feet of others.

They may be to blame for what they do - but that's their bag. How you pick it up and carry it - if indeed you do at all - is yours.

I agree that everyone fixes themselves. If it's your spouse, you have the responsibility to discuss their abusive behaviours with them and they have the choice to react as they choose, whether it's to fix themselves or accept themselves, as is. If they choose to accept themselves, as is, it's your choice to walk or not.

 

If you choose to cheat, that's a fundamental flaw in you, in that you choose to lie and externally validate.

[amerikajin]

I appreciate the reflective and articulate response. Your response reflects original thinking, even if a bit controversial. I found myself nodding in agreement with some of what you wrote and perhaps scratching my head elsewhere in the body of the text.

 

Wouldn't be the first time I misunderstood something. I agree that we can't blame a partner, because they also have their own shyt to deal with. They are human beings who are muddling through, and are products of their upbringing, just like we are. However, sometimes one spouse does become "undervalued" in the relationship, and their SO is happy to maintain this status-quo, because their life feels fine.

 

I would agree that in a lot of cases, there emerges a dominant individual in the relationship. Often times, it becomes clear that one person is more satisfied in the relationship than the other, one person usually has a higher level of interest in their partner than the other. It is rare that two people have exactly the same level of satisfaction in a long-term relationship. People change. An individual's identity changes with experience. An individual's perceived needs change as well (emphases on "perceived"). It's important to understand that a lot of what we're dealing with in relationship is perception. Being "undervalued" can be a perception based on reality, but it can also be a perception based on an unhealthy level of internalization that ultimately doesn't reflect how the other person feels about them at all. Maybe their partner does value them but they are so insecure that they refuse to believe it. Insecurities are a very common cause of cheating. Insecure people cheat because they have a fear of abandonment, so they sometimes preempt being abandoned by having accommodating an extra person in their lives.

 

 

In cases where the couple married in their twenties, and they both sort of developed together without developing healthy boundaries, along with communication techniques, it can be difficult for a deflated spouse to even see themselves as whole anymore. It is all very well to say we should enter relationships when we have it "all together," but that is so seldom the case. Anyway, the deflated spouse has become used to accepting their second-class status, and not even recognizing that there is a serious imbalance in the relationship. Of course, the SO may also have become habituated to this imbalance, and accept it as normal. However, the spouse who is dominant, shall we say, seldom redresses any imbalance unless they are forced to do so. They seldom wake up one day and think..."Hell, I need to uplift my spouse more, and make sure I'm not hogging all the limelight and continually stealing their thunder." You can say they never meant to, that it was unconscious, but they certainly weren't shunning being first and foremost in the relationship.

 

I understand what you're saying and agree up to a point. I absolutely agree that there is often much that precedes an affair, as I have often pointed out to some of the LS puritans over the years. It is easy to look at the straying spouse and blame their cheating for the collapse of the marriage; in reality, though, there is often a lot of decay going on well before the cheating takes place. Is that always true? Of course not. Sometimes people cheat because they're immature, selfish and don't understand the differences between marriage and just dating around, but that's rarely the case in the experiences I've seen in my lifetime. More often than not, as you say, it's a lot of baggage that just piles up. Cheating is often an escalation, a response to what's going on in the relationship. Having said that, though, it is nevertheless a big error in judgment, and problems that were once perhaps fixable become much more difficult to repair once an affair takes place. There are other ways to deal with marriage problems.

 

So, it comes down to the deflated spouse to change things, if they can. Sometimes a deflated spouse can shake themselves free of this inequitable relationship of their own accord, but it usually takes some kind of remarkable catalyst. This catalyst can come in the form of another person, of course, highlighting just what a catch you. This in turn can open the floodgates for an affair.

 

I see what you're saying, and I don't disagree that this is how an affair unfolds. I still nevertheless think that straying outside the relationship has a lot of negative consequences that need to be considered beforehand. At the same time, I don't think people who cheat are evil or lying scum of the earth. I understand that the pain and humiliation they inflict is palpable, but I don't think that makes someone evil. I once knew this Joe the Plumber type who was married to a graduate student who always put him down and insulted him in front of everyone. Granted, he got his shots in too but I tend to believe that she just looked down upon him as an uneducated dolt. Well it was no surprise to me when he ended up having an affair with her sister's friend. I don't condone what he did, but in a way, I can't deny that she kinda, sorta asked for it. You can't just humiliate and abuse your spouse and expect there to be no consequences. I know, I know..."Well, then...get a divorce." Easier said than done.

[Trialbyfire]

Being "undervalued" can be a perception based on reality, but it can also be a perception based on an unhealthy level of internalization that ultimately doesn't reflect how the other person feels about them at all. Maybe their partner does value them but they are so insecure that they refuse to believe it. Insecurities are a very common cause of cheating. Insecure people cheat because they have a fear of abandonment, so they sometimes preempt being abandoned by having accommodating an extra person in their lives.

 

This rings so true in my situation. My ex-H has NPD, a strange combination of ultimate selfishness and low self-esteem, whereby he uses external validation to feed what's lacking.

 

He's been in therapy now for over a year and a half. It's helped him understand himself a lot better. When we were married, he never felt he had a hold on me, in that everything I got from him, I could get elsewhere or had, for example, a meal ticket. This made him feel insecure so he fed it externally, by cheating.

 

The interesting contrast between the two of us, is that I look for someone who doesn't need something from me, whether it's for looks, as a financial provider or whatever it is. They just want to be with me, for all of me. I've never cheated on anyone, ever.

[Geishawhelk]

TBF, just to keep it brief - I think we're on the same page.

Yup.

[Mio]

TBF, just to keep it brief - I think we're on the same page. Yup.

 

Yep, that's right.

 

When we're unconscious of our motivations, I think it probably does look like others are causing our feelings. Once we deconstruct it, we see that it's all about perception and interpretation. We choose the labels we put on other people and their behaviours, and those labels in turn trigger how we feel based on our cognitive schemas.

 

"Choosing labels" is another way of saying judgement.

[Mio]

Yeah, I get the whole this is my feeling that is yours, but again, to think that we operate in a vacuum is just nonsense.

 

I think you are raising a good point. Not saying I agree necessarily, but I'm willing to explore it.

 

I'll state the premise as "Can we induce feelings in another person?" It certainly looks that way from the outside. If I click my pen in your face, you get angry. Did I "make you angry"? I guess you weren't angry beforehand, so it looks like I did.

 

It starts to break down for me if we question why your emotional response was anger. Do all people get angry with clicking pens? What about babies or children? Maybe their reaction would more likely be delight? So I think there is nothing physiological about a clicking pen that invokes anger.

 

So why anger in the adult? What are you thinking when that person in an auditorium is clicking their pen like crazy? Are you thinking, "That inconsiderate b*stard! He's ruining my train of thought!" If it's something like that, then you would be creating a story. Another response might be, "That looks like fun! I'd like to click my pen now too!" My point is, it's a choice. It might be a habit and therefore semi-automatic, but it's still a choice.

[Saville]

I appreciate the reflective and articulate response. Your response reflects original thinking, even if a bit controversial. I found myself nodding in agreement with some of what you wrote and perhaps scratching my head elsewhere in the body of the text.

 

...and I found your response thoughtful and lyrical.

 

Saville

[Geishawhelk]

.....Which shows you made a choice.

[taylor]

I'm sorry you don't agree. That unfortunately puts you at odds with all psychologists

 

I think I read that you had 6 months of IC? Surely they explained this to you? We only feel stuff because of the way we interpret things. A person with good self-esteem is not affected by the same words that would crumble a person with low self-esteem.

 

I'm concerned by the number of people in this thread who seem to agree with you. Believing that other people make us feel things leads us to blame and not taking responsibility for ourselves in relationships.

 

Hi Mio,

 

Actually I have had 9.5 months of IC..it's ongoing.

 

My therapist explained clearly that I alone am responsible for my own happiness.

 

She also clearly explained that my feelings are my own, neither right or wrong, are understandable, and should be embraced. I gathered from that that there is no right or wrong way to "interpret" another person's actions. You interpret them the way you interpret them, based on how you personally are "wired." What affects one person may not affect another in the same way, but in either case, the feelings are not right or wrong...they just ARE.

 

 

In a marriage, you interpret your spouse's words and actions according to how you are "wired."

 

Many of us are "wired" to value fidelity. If a spouse cheats, it affects us negatively..ie., our spouse's actions, AND THE WAY WE INTERPRET THEM, makes us FEEL horrible. This forum is full of betrayed spouses who are suffering from self-esteem issues because of the actions of their wayward spouses.

 

According to your theory, only YOU can make YOU feel a certain way.

 

I don't buy it. A human being would have to be a robot of some sort to NOT FEEL something after his/her spouse cheated...anger, sadness, disgust, devalued, unappreciated, disrespected, etc.

 

Eventually the betrayed spouse DEALS with these feelings, takes control over them...but it doesn't discount the premise that another person's can and does have the power to make a person feel a certain way.

 

I know many people who ONCE had very high self-esteem whose life circumstances changed all that.

 

I know of men who have lost executive positions. The blow to their self-esteem was almost unsurmountable.

 

I know of two women who struggled with the worst self-esteem issues at the hands of verbal and physically abusive husbands. It took them years to gain the strength to get out from under these circumstances and years to regain their sense of self. Both of these women were at the top of their game before they met these men.

 

People do have the power to affect our self-esteem and our self-image.

That is why it is crucial that we as human beings treat each other with kindness and self-respect.

 

I don't care what the psychologists say.

[swingonby]

Cheating.....

 

The word is used whenever there is extra marital sex. Yet most guys I know have "cheated" Yet never gained that unfair advantage that the word cheating represents. Most men still care and love their families but got some on the side.

 

Isn't it possible that cheating is the norm? Every healthy man, married or not will look at other woman and at least rate her as a sex partner. I can't speak for women.

 

"Men think with their dick" Yes they do! Driven by animal instincts? Absolutely!

 

So why the hell do we talk about cheating. Having sex with as many women as possible is part of our nature.