BOREDOM...#1 reason men/women cheat

[Reggie]

Reggie, honestly, are you not saying that only because you have seen the hurt it causes ? Could have said that before your wife's A ?

 

65, to be honest, before this happened to me, I had no idea that infidelity was as damaging as it is. I understood, intellectually, that it was somewhat painful. But, no way did I know it was so traumatizing.

Just like other things in life. Seems I cannot fully aprreciate what things are really like without having gome through them.

I think, in large part, that is why we see so much polarization on these boards. The waywards and OM/OW's think they know what it is like but they are confounded by the BS's portrayal of what it has been like for them.

You'll get this from folks that you know, as well. In their minds, you should be over this so much more quickly than you reall are. They think they know what it is like and they project their feelings onto you.

I am not all that sanctamonius about myself, having done tons of wrong **** in my life. I woud like to think that before I expierienced this I would not have cheated.

[Geishawhelk]

Sorry if I attributed the debate about humans being animals to you , G. I may have had you mixed up with someone else.

In any case, in my profession, I have to deal with my emotional response to stimuli fairly rapidly, as well. Nevertheless, there is the inital flicker of a feeling preceeding my processing it and dealing with it. My "mind/muscle " training has evolved to the point where I can let things go(most of the time) that are adversely affecting me fairly rapidly so as not to let them interefere with my actions.

But, at least for me, and I suspect you, too, the initial stimuli does evoke a feeling and it happens way too fast to say one can prevent feeling it entirely.

I agree with you.

And this is where intellect is different to instinct.

 

The "we're like animals" thing did come from me, but the problem is that our intellect has become such a huge part of being a human being, that we have largely put aside our faith in our animal instinct.

 

Some people call it intuition. We have a gut feeling about something - but our intellect often over-rides this, and we end up, down the line, wishing we had, in hindsight, acted upon it.

Sometimes we just can't explain it, we just get this feeling....

 

And I am convinced that this is a throw-back to a time when listening to our internal radar was as natural to us then, as picking up a mobile 'phone is now.

We haven't completely lost our natural urges. Which is why I said, right at the beginning of this thread, that the number one reason we cheat - is because we want to.

The bottom line is that it's what we want to do. Our urges to screw someone other than our SO is an animal trait.

 

But as humans, we super-impose all these intellectual reasons.

Bercause as humans, we got social ethics, morals, rules, guidelines and religion.

And it is these humanly-created parameters that give rise to the anxiety, distress and pain people experience.

You've only got to go through this forum to read the countless thousands of reasosn both BS and cheaters give for the affair having happened.

These are all reasons based, more or less on emotive factors.

But the reason - the primary reason - people have sex with someone else is because they feel like it.

 

I mentioned above, the social and ethical moral and religious boundaries we have created for ourselves.

Just to clarify - these goalposts are moveable. The same strictures do not apply in other cultures, for example.

Some cultures encourage bigamy.

Others encourage polyandry. Others state that a girl of 12 can be married.

 

So you see, whilst the parameters that drive our feelings are different the world over, people in Papua New Guinea make love in the same way any other human does.

 

And the same drive and instinct that propels us into fornicating, is the same one that drives them.

Desire.

[Reggie]

No argument from me that folks do this because they want to. The interesting part is why some folks control their desires while others do not. That is what seems to distinguish the two groups, cheaters and nons.

[Geishawhelk]

No argument from me that folks do this because they want to. The interesting part is why some folks control their desires while others do not. That is what seems to distinguish the two groups, cheaters and nons.

 

Because some people put more value upon the ethical and moral aspects of being in a relationship than others do.

 

You need 3 fundamental underpinning ingredisents to a relationship.

Guaranteed, in any situation of infidelity, one or more of these was missing.

 

Trust

Communication

Respect.

 

It takes effort and commitment to keep a relationship going.

but if people aren't on the same page - bye bye marriage.

[showmethemoney]

I see all this discussion about self-esteem issues that cause people to cheat which is related to the issues being caused by spouse. How about the most common self-esteem issues that will happen to almost everyone, the classic 'Midlife Crisis'. Aging and it's effects is by far the most the most common fear that will cause self-esteem issues based on appearance, control, and accomplishments. This is entirely based on the perception of the person going through it. There is nothing a spouse can do to change their spouses perception of themselves in this situation. We in a sense become a reminder of their age. Any thoughts?

[Trialbyfire]

I see all this discussion about self-esteem issues that cause people to cheat which is related to the issues being caused by spouse. How about the most common self-esteem issues that will happen to almost everyone, the classic 'Midlife Crisis'. Aging and it's effects is by far the most the most common fear that will cause self-esteem issues based on appearance, control, and accomplishments. This is entirely based on the perception of the person going through it. There is nothing a spouse can do to change their spouses perception of themselves in this situation. We in a sense become a reminder of their age. Any thoughts?

There are people who go through a traumatic MLC and others who don't. This is based on their foundations of who they are. If you base your identity on how you look and whether or not you've still "got it" and how you appeal to the opposite gender, aging will bother you a lot. For others, if they base their identity on other things, this won't affect them as much.

 

Of course there will be other reasons but that's just my opinion of the main one.

[Geishawhelk]

Aging and it's effects is by far the most the most common fear that will cause self-esteem issues based on appearance, control, and accomplishments. This is entirely based on the perception of the person going through it. There is nothing a spouse can do to change their spouses perception of themselves in this situation. We in a sense become a reminder of their age. Any thoughts?

 

This is all generated by the behemoth known as the Beauty industry, who eager to line its coffers, convinces both men and women that grey hair is taboo, lines and wrinkles unnatural and ageing preventable.

 

We buy into it, because we want to believe all the propaganda.

Again, this is a cultural thing.

I don't think some cultures give a damn about these things, though exposure to western ideology is certainly beginning to spread the lies.

 

You get old, you get grey hairs, you slow down and you die.

get over it.

[taylor]

You have choices. Each person takes actions. No one is forced to cheat.

 

I agree 100 percent and thought I spelled this out in my analogy above.

 

People either choose to live with the hurt, divorce the hurt or soothe the hurt with an affair. They are all choices. Agree.

[Reggie]

So, are we in agreement that outside stimuli does cause feelings, no matter how fleeting, and regardless of whether we attribute them to intellect or instinct? And, there is a difference in how folks react and how long they hold onto the feelings which may be able to be controlled by way of certain choices?

[Reggie]

This is all generated by the behemoth known as the Beauty industry, who eager to line its coffers, convinces both men and women that grey hair is taboo, lines and wrinkles unnatural and ageing preventable.

 

We buy into it, because we want to believe all the propaganda.

Again, this is a cultural thing.

I don't think some cultures give a damn about these things, though exposure to western ideology is certainly beginning to spread the lies.

 

You get old, you get grey hairs, you slow down and you die.

get over it.

 

And, one's course management and short game skills may inprove so as to allow you to compete:D(or, so I tell myself as some twenty something bombs it 50 yards by me).

[taylor]

I see all this discussion about self-esteem issues that cause people to cheat which is related to the issues being caused by spouse. How about the most common self-esteem issues that will happen to almost everyone, the classic 'Midlife Crisis'. Aging and it's effects is by far the most the most common fear that will cause self-esteem issues based on appearance, control, and accomplishments. This is entirely based on the perception of the person going through it. There is nothing a spouse can do to change their spouses perception of themselves in this situation. We in a sense become a reminder of their age. Any thoughts?

 

Self-esteem issues don't cause people to cheat.

 

People with self-esteem issues may choose to seek validation from another person who bolsters their self-esteem. This choice to seek validation from someone outside the marriage leads to an affair.

 

I don't think spouses are responsible for or cause their SO's to have low self esteem, either. Low self-esteem can come from a zillion sources, dating back to childhood. I do believe spouses in some cases can contribute to the lowering of a SO's self-esteem, but can't take all the blame or responsibility for how the SO views himself. Self-esteem is built over time and erodes over time and is affected by many factors.

 

I believe in most cases, including mine, that issues that lead us to cheat are internal...how we view ourselves, our importance and value to others, our significant place in the world.

 

This is why I have told 65tr6 and others that they are not responsible for their WS's happiness or sense of self. People, like me, who have had an affair, need to turn inward to find the source of their unhappiness and to figure out what is truly making them feel devalued. There isn't much the BS, like 65tr6, can do to give a WS value again. They have to find it themselves.

 

People in MLC have to do the same...find value in themselves again in ways that are different than they did previously. A retired man can no longer look for value in his job. A beautiful woman whose beauty is fading can no longer rely on her looks to boost her self-esteem. They must find new ways to look at themselves that will make themselves feel valued.

[Reggie]

Taylor makes sense to me.

[65tr6]

I see all this discussion about self-esteem issues that cause people to cheat which is related to the issues being caused by spouse. How about the most common self-esteem issues that will happen to almost everyone, the classic 'Midlife Crisis'.

i have wondererd about this myself until the A. Now everything else seems so insignificant -- MLC, Market Crash, Economy !

[65tr6]

taylor, i think you are splitting hairs. I am going to use reverse logic here....

 

Like i said before what if (i know i should not do that) one validated their spouse's self-esteem to begin with as opposed to putting it down ? Would they still have sought validation outside ? May be. But very unlikey.

 

Having said that I will never blamed anyone for my actions, i never did and i never will. And i expect the same from others including my wife and she knows it. And she has taken full responsibility. But this whole infidelity is so complex it is not that simple to list what caused it - in some cases-. You can only get so far and the best thing to do is learn from it, whatever you can, and move on.

[taylor]

Like i said before what if (i know i should not do that) one validated their spouse's self-esteem to begin with as opposed to putting it down ? Would they still have sought validation outside ? May be. But very unlikey.

 

Not necessarily!

 

It depends on whose validation has the greatest impact. Technically, you should have the greatest impact on how your wife feels about herself BUT often it's outsiders, sometimes strangers, who can give us quite an ego boost.

 

If a man loses his job, there is no amount of validation from his wife that will make him feel better. The only thing that is going to make him feel better is finding another job.

 

A woman struggling with a weight problem can hear her husband say, "Oh, honey, you look good in anything. Don't worry about those few extra poounds. I love you no matter what." That won't have nearly the same impetus than if a strange man says to your wife, "Sorry. Can't help but stare. You look awesome in that dress."

 

It also depends on how the person peceives himself even after an attempt is made to validate that person. You can tell a person how wonderful they are, but unless they truly believe it inside, they aren't going to believe it. It will fall on deaf ears.

 

65tr6, only you know how much you may have contributed to the lowering of your wife's self-esteem. But is she, and are you, honestly looking at any other factors that may have contributed to her unhappiness and her lack of self-esteem. Please don't take this all on yourself.

 

Any way you look at it, her choice to seek validation outside the marriage was a poor choice, the wrong choice. And that choice had nothing to do with you.

[Reggie]

taylor, i think you are splitting hairs. I am going to use reverse logic here....

 

Like i said before what if (i know i should not do that) one validated their spouse's self-esteem to begin with as opposed to putting it down ? Would they still have sought validation outside ? May be. But very unlikey.

 

Having said that I will never blamed anyone for my actions, i never did and i never will. And i expect the same from others including my wife and she knows it. And she has taken full responsibility. But this whole infidelity is so complex it is not that simple to list what caused it - in some cases-. You can only get so far and the best thing to do is learn from it, whatever you can, and move on.

 

65, i don't think your lack of validating your spouse's self esteem played a role in her cheating. It may be nice to think so, as it gives one some sense of control.

I'm sure you made mistakes and were/are imperfect. But, if a requirement of perfection is the standard for measuring one's entitlement to fidleity in a marriage, there would be no fidelity.

[taylor]

65, i don't think your lack of validating your spouse's self esteem played a role in her cheating. It may be nice to think so, as it gives one some sense of control.

I'm sure you made mistakes and were/are imperfect. But, if a requirement of perfection is the standard for measuring one's entitlement to fidleity in a marriage, there would be no fidelity.

 

 

You said it so much better than I could have, Reggie, and in alot fewer words.

[Geishawhelk]

So, are we in agreement that outside stimuli does cause feelings, no matter how fleeting, and regardless of whether we attribute them to intellect or instinct?

Instinct = Feelings, fleeting emotions.

Intellect = emotional feelings, agendas, baggage.

 

And, there is a difference in how folks react and how long they hold onto the feelings which may be able to be controlled by way of certain choices?

 

Which can be controlled....

Check out NLP, and Cognitive behaviour Therapy.

[soserious1]

After trying to fix things for a long time, I opted out of the marriage via divorce.

 

As far as self-esteem goes though.. I have none left. Every single thing my ex told me was true... nobody wants a beat up old broad in her 50's ..unless she's got a fat wallet,is willing to write a lot of checks and turn the other way when her man steps out.Older men however,can pretty easily find a new woman,often MUCH younger and better looking than the one he left behind.

 

My ex is with a woman 20 yrs his junior now.. I have a couple of cats and the room mate I took in to help make my alimony payments for company. Every single word my Ex uttered was true.It is a man's world in the end.

[Geishawhelk]

I'm a beat up old broad of 52 and the sex is better than it's ever been.

 

Thank you very much.

 

50 you may be, but the 'beat up' and 'old' is all your own perception of you.

You need to stop feeling so sorry for yourself, get up and do something about you.

 

 

Whatever you put Energy into, will grow.

 

You need to start changing your way of thinking, because the way you're thinking is all a bunch of lying hooey.

[soserious1]

Do NOT own the BS he tried to hand you! It's NOT true. I know lots of good guys in your age bracket (close to mine as well) who would love a good woman and would treat her right AND make their own money quite nicely. Please don't let him make you feel this way!

 

As the old saying goes "the proof is in the pudding" My ex has dated a veritable flock of women since our breakup and has hooked himself up with a woman who is as the popular saying goes "a smokin hottie". I have cats, a roomate and the daily battle to keep unwanted menopausal whiskers off my face.

[amerikajin]

I think there are generally two broad categories of ethics: the ethics of moral absolutes, and the ethics of consequences. I would guess that most free-thinking individuals adopt a little bit of both and make it a composite system of ethics, but that's strictly based on my own perceptions and interaction with people. I used to believe in moral absolutism when I was younger, but through my own experiences I have become what I would consider to be more practical, less judgmental, and more flexible and tolerant about some things. I don't know whether this is good or bad, right or wrong, but it's what seems to work for me.

 

If someone does something I disagree with, I'll usually tell them outright. That doesn't mean I yell and scream about it, but I'll just tell them that I don't agree with it, and I'll explain why. They're either free to take it or leave it, and I'm free to either take them or leave them. It's that simple. I don't try to control others, I only try to control myself. That's about all we can do.

[Geishawhelk]

My ex is with a woman 20 yrs his junior now..

 

well let me tell you why this will all end in tears.

 

They may be having fun and games now, but when he's old, impotent and frail, she's not going to want to stick around for a half-baked pension, and become his carer.

 

She'll leave, or find another, once he shows signs of slowing down.

And he will.

Men don't age, health-wise, usually, as well as women do.

 

In the meantime, do yourself a favour, get yourself a make-over, take yourself in hand and be the person you were born to be.

 

 

I know it's not easy being you.

Nobody's ever done it before, so you have a blank canvas.

[Geishawhelk]

As the old saying goes "the proof is in the pudding" My ex has dated a veritable flock of women since our breakup and has hooked himself up with a woman who is as the popular saying goes "a smokin hottie". I have cats, a roomate and the daily battle to keep unwanted menopausal whiskers off my face.

 

You are what you think.

Change your thinking.

get laser treatment, a chemical peel and do something, insted of moaning about it!

 

Nothing will ever change for you, unless you kick the cats out and do something for yourself!

 

Jeesh, your ex did you the biggest favour ever by agreeing to divorce!

You have an independent, free and potentially full life to lead!!

Why be so despondent!?

 

Best thing I ever did, divorcing my ex- at 48!

[soserious1]

You are what you think.

Change your thinking.

get laser treatment, a chemical peel and do something, insted of moaning about it!

 

Nothing will ever change for you, unless you kick the cats out and do something for yourself!

 

Jeesh, your ex did you the biggest favour ever by agreeing to divorce!

You have an independent, free and potentially full life to lead!!

Why be so despondent!?

 

Best thing I ever did, divorcing my ex- at 48!

 

 

Laser treatments? makeovers? with what money exactly? all money that isn't needed to pay essential bills goes out the door in alimony payments

to him.

 

He gets the hotties,hot sex and fun, I get work and bills..our lives post divorce mirror our lives during the marriage.