Reggie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 After trying to fix things for a long time, I opted out of the marriage via divorce. As far as self-esteem goes though.. I have none left. Every single thing my ex told me was true... nobody wants a beat up old broad in her 50's ..unless she's got a fat wallet,is willing to write a lot of checks and turn the other way when her man steps out.Older men however,can pretty easily find a new woman,often MUCH younger and better looking than the one he left behind. My ex is with a woman 20 yrs his junior now.. I have a couple of cats and the room mate I took in to help make my alimony payments for company. Every single word my Ex uttered was true.It is a man's world in the end. Your ex is an a-hole if he said any of that and you are better off without him. Cats and dogs are better companions, anyway. Who wants to deal with all the drama and deceit in a relationship , anyway. Your ex is going to windup alone, after his stash of Viagra dries up. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Well in that case work with what you've got. Come on woman, you have to get a grip! I'm sure there must be ways in which you can find the time to treat yourself and make yourself both look and feel better! Come on - come up with 3 good workable ideas to change things...... Ready... Steady.... GO!! Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 LAst year, I met a nice 51 year old woman and we dated. She was the sexiest woman I've ever met. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Well in that case work with what you've got. Come on woman, you have to get a grip! I'm sure there must be ways in which you can find the time to treat yourself and make yourself both look and feel better! Come on - come up with 3 good workable ideas to change things...... Ready... Steady.... GO!! I heard from my broker today that my accounts lost another 85K, so my mood isn't too good. I don't look bad, I mean I'm slim and I don't smell ,I just look old, not appealing sexually. From where I sit, my EX was the smarter of the two of us and the one who ended up with the better lifestyle. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 LAst year, I met a nice 51 year old woman and we dated. She was the sexiest woman I've ever met. key words "we dated" now she's 52 and where exactly? Link to post Share on other sites
taylor Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 After trying to fix things for a long time, I opted out of the marriage via divorce. As far as self-esteem goes though.. I have none left. Every single thing my ex told me was true... nobody wants a beat up old broad in her 50's ..unless she's got a fat wallet,is willing to write a lot of checks and turn the other way when her man steps out.Older men however,can pretty easily find a new woman,often MUCH younger and better looking than the one he left behind. My ex is with a woman 20 yrs his junior now.. I have a couple of cats and the room mate I took in to help make my alimony payments for company. Every single word my Ex uttered was true.It is a man's world in the end. This is a perfect example of how a person's words and actions can make a another person feel bad....erode their self-esteem. This poster listened to these words for so long she was brainwashed into believing they were true. Her whole being reflects the way he treated her and saw her. She "chose" to be brainwashed..and then she "chose" to walk by divorce. It still does not remove the hurt feelings. It will take a long time for her to regain a sense of self. And who is going to do that for her? Everyone, including herself. Other posters are already jumping on the bandwagon with kind and encouraging words that will make her feel better about herself. In the end, she will either accept and believe she is better than what her ex=husband made her out to be, or she will continue to feel the way he made her feel...worthless. It's so sad to hear your story, soserious. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Soserious, listen to yourself. Everything we've put forward, you've shot down in flames. Unless you get some perverse enjoyment from being so depresssing, then look at your attitude - and change it. I'm 52. I'm dating a guy who's 5 years younger than I. I'm short, slightly dumpy, menopausal and I have hormonal mood swings. And for all this, he loves me to bits and dotes on me. If I can do it, so can you. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Everyone, including herself. No, I don't think so. She's shooting down everything we tell her. So she's choosing of her own volition to focus on the negative. Nobody's making her do this, or encouraging her to do this. Nobody's feeding her negative vibes. She's made this choice. Other posters are already jumping on the bandwagon with kind and encouraging words that will make her feel better about herself. only if she permits this..... In the end, she will either accept and believe she is better than what her ex=husband made her out to be, or she will continue to feel the way he made her feel...worthless. She will.... she will..... Choice......choice. It's so sad to hear your story, soserious. Yes, and all the sadder because she's buying into it. I agree. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 She dumped me(nicely) . I have 5 kids and she wanted to be free to travel(or, more likely, I smelled bad:)). Link to post Share on other sites
65tr6 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 But, if a requirement of perfection is the standard for measuring one's entitlement to fidleity in a marriage, there would be no fidelity. reggie, i know you are being nice to me...you dont have to...Trust me i will get through this...When i said what i said, i was feeling sorry for my wife. I know my actions may not have had direct impact on her choosing infidelity over me but the reality is it does have some impact...see the post right above...great example. The key is what people start to believe. And it gets amplified a lot for folks with low self esteem. As taylor says they get brainwashed. All i am saying is it is important to recognize that. I had no clue before the A anything about all this but i now i do. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 We were getting seriously OT for a moment there....!! Link to post Share on other sites
65tr6 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I heard from my broker today that my accounts lost another 85K, so my mood isn't too good. . dont worry. you will get your money back, if you can wait and ride the storm. More importantly about your self-esteem, what are you doing to get over it ? Can you get IC ? Link to post Share on other sites
65tr6 Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 We were getting seriously OT for a moment there....!! i dont know, i think we are saying the #1 reason is not boredom but low self-esteem ?? Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 No, we're not. We're trying to determine why people cheat, and the bottom line is because they choose to. Link to post Share on other sites
swingonby Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 First of all, what a great board with good discussions. I just updated my profile because I want you to know that I arrived on this board to explore and seek understanding in marriage and monogamy issues which are rather current in my own situation. I hope to learn, clearify my thoughts around this subject and have my thoughts challenged so I am forced to look at them closer. So will try not to claim anything I write as fact. Then you're in agreement that we, as human beings, have the ability to circumvent our instinctual reactions/responses, due to assorted social constructs, the ability to analyze and freedom of will. Trialbyfire, you are correct in saying the above. But it is learned cultural behaviour. The point I am making is that there is an underlying natural instinct that pops up. Especially when the going gets tough and the assumed marriage deal changes. We are formed by our genetic heritage but this doesn't mean that men should go around like raving beasts spreading their seed. As you point out, the simple fact that that doesn't happen probably means it is not in our genes to do this. Neither are humans completely surrendered to their instincts like animals are. However, pretending that that instinct doesn't affect and influence our day to day decisions and desires is wrong. I think that especially our emotional frame of mind is controlled more by instinct than our mind. Geishawhelk correctly points out that marriage vows binds married people to monogamy. I'm not too sure it applies the way she interprets it. The marriage contract is often made after a passionate courtship during which sex is a major aspect. Then the deal changes. There are kids, mortgages and careers to consider. Sex is less important for the woman as she now shifts into nurturing mode (totally normal instinctive behaviour) The deal changed and men complain about a lack of sex, which is their instictive drive. Anyone notice a one sided deal here? Why should she allow a change in a deal that goes her way? Everyone suggests divorce as the only option but I reject it. Both partners have invested a great deal of effort in the relationship and enjoy great ongoing benefits from their relationship. Why throw that away? Could it not be that at this point marriage should be socially more accomodating so that frustrated partners don't need to drag their way through married life? A marriage, which when it comes down to it, is actually pretty good. It is not just the frequency of sex that is the issue here. "Boredom #1 reason men/woman cheat" Indeed. I do believe that regardless of the quality of the sex with their partner, men will still be interested in extramarital sex. But maybe (I have no experience here) that a decent sex-life in a marriage makes it easier to keep to monogamy. I find it on this board over and over again that a lack of sex becomes the deal breaker in an otherwise convenient mutually beneficial marriage contract. But most people say "Divorce" or "put up with it" while totally ignoring the very real and powerful instincts of men and women. If this is the source of many marital problems, should we then not change our attitudes towards this and reconsider monogamy as the only option? Link to post Share on other sites
65tr6 Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 No, we're not. We're trying to determine why people cheat, and the bottom line is because they choose to. with all due respect, so there is your answer...They choose to. Link to post Share on other sites
taylor Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 No, we're not. We're trying to determine why people cheat, and the bottom line is because they choose to. This makes no sense: Question: Why do people choose to cheat? Your answer: Because they choose to. That gets to the bottom of nothing. BTW, your opinion on this subject isn't the only one that counts. There have been a variety of opinions voiced. They all contain validity. You have no right to discount any of them for other posters. They can each accept, consider, or discount any ones they choose to. Link to post Share on other sites
taylor Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 No, I don't think so. She's shooting down everything we tell her. So she's choosing of her own volition to focus on the negative. Nobody's making her do this, or encouraging her to do this. Nobody's feeding her negative vibes. She's made this choice. She is shooting everything down because she just can't wrap her head and heart around the fact that she is a valuable, worthwhile, beautiful, desireable human being. Why? Because she has been brainwashed for years to believe otherwise and her husband's infidelity is just perpetuating that notion. This poor woman has been spoonfed negative vibes for years. No one gets to the point she is at because she chooses to...wants to...desires to be there. Yes, I agree she has been buying into it. It's called brainwashing by someone she once trusted and believed in. Hopefully she will be able to turn this around. But I doubt she will be able to do this all by herself. She is going to need a lot of support from friends and family and perhaps some therapy. She is going to need other people to CONVINCE her...MAKE HER BELIEVE and TRUST that she truly is a valuable, beautiful human being. If enough people show her and tell her, she just might start believing it herself. Soserious, if I may ask you, what was your self-esteem like BEFORE you met your husband? and Are there any other factors you feel may have contributed to your loss of self-esteem? Link to post Share on other sites
taylor Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Unless you get some perverse enjoyment from being so depresssing, then look at your attitude - and change it. I bet if soserious had some handsome 45 year old doting on her and loving her up...treating her like a real lady, she would change her depressing attitude in a matter of no time...and her self-esteem would soar. She would feel more alive than she has felt in years. Thus is the stuff that affairs are born of. But lucky for soserious, she's already gone the divorce route so every eligible bachelor is fair game for her. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Hopefully she will be able to turn this around. But I doubt she will be able to do this all by herself. She is going to need a lot of support from friends and family and perhaps some therapy. She is going to need other people to CONVINCE her...MAKE HER BELIEVE and TRUST that she truly is a valuable, beautiful human being. If enough people show her and tell her, she just might start believing it herself. taylor, while I can respect your compassion, this can become a never-ending road to looking for and needing external validation. No one can convince anyone they're valuable and beautiful. This is something people have to work on, within themselves. No one can teach you to trust, beyond possibly trusting that particular individual. You have to be ready to open yourself up to trusting something. When you find that anchor within you, you will trust yourself again. Link to post Share on other sites
taylor Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 taylor, while I can respect your compassion, this can become a never-ending road to looking for and needing external validation. No one can convince anyone they're valuable and beautiful. This is something people have to work on, within themselves. No one can teach you to trust, beyond possibly trusting that particular individual. You have to be ready to open yourself up to trusting something. When you find that anchor within you, you will trust yourself again. I totally agree with you TBF. No one can convince someone they are valuable. At some point they have to start believing it themselves. But this can be an arduous task for someone who has been made to believe they are worthless by the very person they love and trust the most. SoSerious won't have a chance of turning this around if she lives in a vaccuum...left alone with her husband's derogatory words echoing in her head. She needs other people to counter those awful voices in her head. Someone to tell her that those were lies. They weren't the truth. She needs someone to start telling her the truth now...over and over. Drown out the lies. And hopefully she will see a little glimmer of that truth in their words and take it from there. I also agree totally with you that she won't truly come to believe she is a valuable, worthwhile human being until she looks inside herself...until she can "see" what truly makes her valuable, beautiful, worthwhile. It's just that she may need a little nudge to do that from those who truly do love her and already know that truth. It would be great if she could get a little IC. It makes you look inward and see all kinds of things and helps you sort out what is real and true and what isn't. And that's when you start to find yourself again. Link to post Share on other sites
taylor Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 SoSerious, I have a quote here from a song "Find Yourself." It's by Brad Paisley and it's from the movie "Cars." It just made me think of you: When we go through life So sure of where we're headed And we wind up lost It can be the best thing that could have happened Because sometimes when you lose your way It's really just as well, Because you find yourself, Yeah, that's when you find yourself. It's time for you to find out who you really are now, SoSerious. Only you know who that person really is. You've lived with her your whole life. She has stuck by you in the best and in the worst of times. There is no one more valuable. Take time to find out who this incredible, wonderful person truly is. She is you. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 with all due respect, so there is your answer...They choose to. It's always been my answer. What was your point, please? Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 This makes no sense: Question: Why do people choose to cheat? Your answer: Because they choose to. That gets to the bottom of nothing. yes it does. It answers the fundamental question as to why people cheat. They have a choice: Cheat? Not Cheat? They choose. BTW, your opinion on this subject isn't the only one that counts. There have been a variety of opinions voiced. They all contain validity. You have no right to discount any of them for other posters. They can each accept, consider, or discount any ones they choose to. I don't discount anything or anyone, but what people are missing is that emotively, instinctually, people make decisions, based on all kinds of imput, reasoning, evaluation, stimulation, perception, and temptation. The bottom line is, that your decision to poke someone, or open your legs - is yours, and yours only. Show me anywhere where someone has been forced and co-erced into having an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I totally agree with you TBF. No one can convince someone they are valuable. At some point they have to start believing it themselves. EXACTLY MY POINT!! But this can be an arduous task for someone who has been made to believe they are worthless by the very person they love and trust the most. Never said it isn't! Simple, yes. Easy, most certainly not!! SoSerious won't have a chance of turning this around if she lives in a vaccuum...left alone with her husband's derogatory words echoing in her head. She needs other people to counter those awful voices in her head. Someone to tell her that those were lies. They weren't the truth. She needs someone to start telling her the truth now...over and over. Drown out the lies. And hopefully she will see a little glimmer of that truth in their words and take it from there. I also agree totally with you that she won't truly come to believe she is a valuable, worthwhile human being until she looks inside herself...until she can "see" what truly makes her valuable, beautiful, worthwhile. It's just that she may need a little nudge to do that from those who truly do love her and already know that truth. I completely agree with all of this. But the decision to surround herself with this, instead of wallowing in self-pity, has to come from her!! She may need more thn a little nudge, because being so far down she can't see daylight. But the Effort to change all this is internally motivated. You can lead a horse to water..... It would be great if she could get a little IC. It makes you look inward and see all kinds of things and helps you sort out what is real and true and what isn't. And that's when you start to find yourself again. I think this would be an excellent first step. Link to post Share on other sites
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