Third Side of the Story

[whichwayisup]

I agree with WWIU that a new thread dealing with your depression and reasons behind it could help you far more than the bickering on this thread. All this is doing is making it worse for you constantly defending yourself.

 

It'll just change the focus of helping you cope with the low feelings, the depression and any anxiety you're having now. Because all that stuff DOES affect how you handle and process stuff day to day.

[vnqsh2001]

That is the important thing, to find a doctor you can feel at ease with and be completely honest with.

 

I wish you all the best V, and in defense of the good people at LS i want to let you know that you have recieved the critisism youhave because of the stuff you left out - People feel cheated when they have given advise and then learn that you have left very important stuff out. Dont take it personal

 

Oh and one more thing, maybe you could join a forum for people who feel suicidal and a harm to themselves? I think you will get a better response and far more understanding

 

Good luck anyway x

Yeah, ok. I understand. The "good people" of LS were just fine before my wife got on here with the express purpose of stirring up trouble. They were just being manipulated and used by her, but I doubt they will ever understand or feel that way. If anything, this should make them angry just as it does me.

 

In my further defense, I would like to point out that "important" is a relative word. What seems important to them is not necessarily so for me.

 

As for joining another type of forum, that's good advice. But I'm a little discouraged about turning to anyone for help now that I've suffered the scorn and wrath of this group of people. I do need something though.

[whichwayisup]

I meant starting a new thread in a different section on Loveshack. Not leaving and finding a new board to post on.

 

If you post in another section, the same people here will go over to your new thread and continue to post there.

[vnqsh2001]

What people need to understand is this:

 

Even though I disagree with the claim that I am simply trying to avoid my responsibility for what happened, that is beside the point. The fact is that I'm not here to blame or be blamed. I was simply here to talk about my feelings now that her affair has occurred.

 

You say I don't have a right to be hurt? Ok. You can have that opinion. But that doesn't magically erase my pain. So what I'm trying to do is get some advice on how to deal and cope with this pain. Understand? I think I stated that pretty clearly in my very first post, but for some reason people have a completely wrong idea about what I'm trying to accomplish.

[vnqsh2001]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1978588&postcount=118

This was not a misrepresentation in any way, shape, or form. I have in fact been asking my wife if she wants to construct a more swinging arrangement for our marriage and she has declined, opting to keep the arrangement we had to begin with. I had asked her in the past whether she wanted to be free to do as she wants as well. Again, she declined. I then specifically asked her never to do anything simply to hurt me and that if she wanted to do something to simply discuss it with me first. She agreed, but broke that agreement later on; hence my obvious displeasure.

 

She also specifically promised never to sleep with her ex-boyfriend, but she did.

 

Anyway, this is all beside the point and these sorts of explanations are really what I wanted to avoid. Like I said, I'm not here to discuss who is to blame. In fact, I recognize that I'm at fault too. I'm just relating the facts so you know what happened. But seeing how quick you are to judge and take sides, I'm not at all sorry that certain facts were withheld from you at first.

[vnqsh2001]

I think that Vnq has it right. He's made it clear that he only wants to vent, and doesn't need/want input. If we don't like that we can move on.

 

Fair enough...best bet for all would be to "move on".

 

Taking my own advice...peace out!

Part of the reason that I'm here to vent is because I stay awake at all hours of the day and night now. My wife doesn't wish or need to keep discussing things with me all the time. I have a tendency to keep talking even when she wants to do other things or sleep. Therefore, I was looking for another way to keep myself occupied in order to give her some space.

[Owl]

Part of the reason that I'm here to vent is because I stay awake at all hours of the day and night now. My wife doesn't wish or need to keep discussing things with me all the time. I have a tendency to keep talking even when she wants to do other things or sleep. Therefore, I was looking for another way to keep myself occupied in order to give her some space.

 

I can understand that.

 

But, this is the samething as if you were talking to your wife...she's going to respond with her viewpoint/opinion/feelings/etc... The people here are going to respond with advice/opinions/observations/etc...whether you want them to or not.

 

And they're going to talk about ALL the aspects of your situation, not just those that you want to focus on. They're going to focus on what THEY feel is the most critical.

 

A forum does exactly that. ESPECIALLY a "support" forum such as this.

 

I think you're unhappy with what you got because you have drastically different expectations from this forum than the ones posting advice to you.

[BareGoddess]

I think you're unhappy with what you got because you have drastically different expectations from this forum than the ones posting advice to you

 

Interesting comment Owl because I happen to think that this is the exact problem with the "agreement" he had with his wife. Just change that last bit from "the ones posting advice to you" to your wife's expectations regarding the agreement.

 

Bottom line is they were never really on the same page. And they're both at fault there. If they don't get on the same page and set up boundaries, I have no doubt that this will happen again until they finally divorce, if they don't after this go-round.

[jwi71]

but for some reason people have a completely wrong idea about what I'm trying to accomplish.

 

What are you trying to accomplish and how does LS fit into that?

[Trimmer]

You may not realize this, but the previous six years of our marriage were truly wonderful. We were both extremely happy.

OK, I actually haven't read any of your previous threads, so I don't have any opinion on the whole issue of whether you were forthcoming or not. I'll accept this statement at face value.

 

Things just got messed up recently when she decided to go out and have an affair. That was all.

OK, so an issue within the marriage caused the recent problems.

 

Now I'm the one still hurting over this and I'm looking for a way to deal with all the emotional garbage that got stirred up over it,

And right there is my disconnect. How can you take the preceeding, and the fact that you are still reeling from it, to the point of depression and suicidal thoughts, and get from it that it is ONLY your problem to deal with, and that the marriage and relationship issues are "well in hand..."

 

I'm not looking to assign blame or cast one or the other of you as the bad guy, but why deny so vehemently that this is a problem within the marriage?

 

 

I'm better off putting a shotgun to my head. I'm outta here. Laterz!

 

But it always seems darkest before the dawn and I just want to talk about that so that I don't get drunk and turn the shotgun on myself instead.

 

Yeah, that's a problem I have. When I get depressed, I wake up every day trying to think of excuses NOT to pull the trigger on my own skull.

 

Depression is not something you can just "get over." It's something that sticks with you; day in and day out. It's not a matter of growing up or manning up. It's just something that happens and you can't control it very well at all. Seriously, have you ever had experience with people who are clinically depressed or suicidal? If you had you would know that it's not just something you can simply smack out of a person. In fact, that sort of behavior can just egg them on to more and more self-destructive things.

Nor can you simply smack it out of yourself. You will need help.

Yes, I've considered seeing a doctor, but I haven't had any luck finding one I am really comfortable with at the moment.

And while yes, you need to find a doctor who you are comfortable with, it may not be a completely comfortable process, so stop using the excuse that you haven't found someone you're comfortable with yet. You are making excuses for not seeking help, when you know you need to do it.

 

You are taking this all on your shoulders, as if the marriage is fine ("rebuilding our relationship isn't the issue, people...") and if you could only clear up your anguish, everything would go back to the way it was. It sounds like you are playing the martyr - sacrificing yourself and going down in a blaze of glory instead of doing the hard work and really addressing the problems and layers piece by piece.

 

From your comments, I can't tell if you believe there's a problem in your marriage or not - you bounce back and forth - and I think that reflects that you are in a fight, yourself, to reconcile it all, partly recognizing that some of this is related to problems with your relationship, while partly struggling mightily to deny that fact, compartmentalizing and idealizing the marriage, and claiming that it's only your struggle to get through.

 

All I can say is that, blame and recriminations aside, you are staggering with a huge burden, the size of which, understandably, I think even you are denying. I think the "I'm not comfortable getting help" is one way of denying it (only weak people, or people with really big problems have to seek help, right?) but I also think that believing that a forum of random people will be helpful at the level you need is like putting the shotgun to your head and asking someone walking down the street to hold it for you, with their finger on the trigger.

 

There's no shame in depression, and there's no shame in seeking out help for it, but while Loveshack can be a nurturing environment, it can also be hit and miss, as you have seen. It SHOULD NOT be your primary support for serious issues like this.

 

She and I are not having any trouble keeping things together.

Well, it sounds like you are, and if that isn't a problem with the marriage, I don't know what is.

[vnqsh2001]

I can understand that.

 

But, this is the samething as if you were talking to your wife...she's going to respond with her viewpoint/opinion/feelings/etc... The people here are going to respond with advice/opinions/observations/etc...whether you want them to or not.

 

And they're going to talk about ALL the aspects of your situation, not just those that you want to focus on. They're going to focus on what THEY feel is the most critical.

 

A forum does exactly that. ESPECIALLY a "support" forum such as this.

 

I think you're unhappy with what you got because you have drastically different expectations from this forum than the ones posting advice to you.

No, I'm unhappy with the insulting and harshly judgmental comments that are simply jumping to conclusions without letting me relate my side of things one bit. The other comments are fine. Refer to my acceptance of Dexter's disagreement on a previous post in this thread.

 

Also, I'm tired of the assumption that I'm simply trying to place blame and and garner sympathy. That's simply not true, though a little sympathy now and then never hurt anybody.

[vnqsh2001]

Interesting comment Owl because I happen to think that this is the exact problem with the "agreement" he had with his wife. Just change that last bit from "the ones posting advice to you" to your wife's expectations regarding the agreement.

 

Bottom line is they were never really on the same page. And they're both at fault there. If they don't get on the same page and set up boundaries, I have no doubt that this will happen again until they finally divorce, if they don't after this go-round.

No, we were on the same page. That's why our marriage lasted so wonderfully for about six years. It's just that something went wrong during this last year. I think I've stated that several times, though I understand if you don't quite understand what I mean. I hope this reiteration clears things up a bit.

[vnqsh2001]

What are you trying to accomplish and how does LS fit into that?

I'm trying to cope with the pain, disappointment, and sadness brought on by my wife's actions. I'm not here to ask what I should do about my marriage, because I've pretty much decided that already. I'm not here to place blame, because it's already been stated that we both are. I'm just here to relate some things and hopefully feel a little less depressed. I also want to give my wife a little room to breathe instead of badgering her with my complaints continuously. I admit that in my pain I've become a bit obsessed with the whole ordeal.

[BareGoddess]

No, we were on the same page. That's why our marriage lasted so wonderfully for about six years. It's just that something went wrong during this last year. I think I've stated that several times, though I understand if you don't quite understand what I mean. I hope this reiteration clears things up a bit.

 

Oh I understood perfectly. The marriage lasted "wonderfully" for six years because you thought you were getting your cake and eating it too. Now the fog you were in has lifted and you see that two can play at the same game, so to speak. That's the "something that went wrong part."

 

So you see I understood perfectly.

 

Of course you're going to come back and tell me how I've got it all wrong, right? How it's WAY too complex for my little pea brain and how you left out a bunch of pertinent details, right?

[vnqsh2001]

 

Well, it sounds like you are, and if that isn't a problem with the marriage, I don't know what is.

And there you have a point. Actually, my wife is fine. She is better than she has been in months. I am the one suffering now and if you ask how she feels she will tell you that she isn't happy. If you ask her why though, she will say that it is because I am in such a funk. To make matters worse, she feels guilty for having caused my depression. Other than that, she's really quite happy with our marriage and really wants to work things out with me.

 

My wife and I have been having problems, yes. But we have communicated and worked through a lot of the difficult stuff that caused that. We are not fighting like cats and dogs as people seem to be imagining. No, we are getting along and talking quite well. Now, all that's really left is for me to deal with my own depression. It's the only thing that's holding back further progress.

[Owl]

I'm trying to cope with the pain, disappointment, and sadness brought on by my wife's actions. I'm not here to ask what I should do about my marriage, because I've pretty much decided that already. I'm not here to place blame, because it's already been stated that we both are. I'm just here to relate some things and hopefully feel a little less depressed. I also want to give my wife a little room to breathe instead of badgering her with my complaints continuously. I admit that in my pain I've become a bit obsessed with the whole ordeal.

 

Let me rephrase the question for you:

 

What are you expecting from US (the people reading your posts)?

 

Clearly you're not happy with the responses. You seem to want to dictate how people respond to you...to insist that we stay only on the topics YOU feel are important.

 

That's not a "wise" expectation from a public "support" forum. That's like walking into a concert expecting them only to play the songs that YOU want to hear. Support isn't about just what you want to hear, or focusing on the things that you are comfortable with.

 

Since you don't want to focus on fixing your marriage from the damage done by infidelity, I'm not sure that this is the place to help you...I'd agree you'd be better served by posting what you want to focus on on a board (here on LS, or elsewhere) that is targeted for those areas.

 

This particular location of LS is intended for dealing with infidelity...not depression or medical issues.

 

Just my thoughts.

[Kasan]

And there you have a point. Actually, my wife is fine. She is better than she has been in months.

Why is this? Sounds very odd to me.

 

Other than that, she's really quite happy with our marriage and really wants to work things out with me.

This sounds like a contradiction....Just sayin..........

 

My wife and I have been having problems, yes. But we have communicated and worked through a lot of the difficult stuff that caused that.

But, you're living in separate houses.........

 

Now, all that's really left is for me to deal with my own depression. It's the only thing that's holding back further progress.

Good luck with this, as you seem to me, like you want to work this depression out on our own, which you have struggled with in the past.

[vnqsh2001]

Oh I understood perfectly. The marriage lasted "wonderfully" for six years because you thought you were getting your cake and eating it too. Now the fog you were in has lifted and you see that two can play at the same game, so to speak. That's the "something that went wrong part."

 

So you see I understood perfectly.

 

Of course you're going to come back and tell me how I've got it all wrong, right? How it's WAY too complex for my little pea brain and how you left out a bunch of pertinent details, right?

I was not eating too much cake. Like I said, I avoided indulging myself because I was happy with holding the cake I had. This is a moot point. My wife and I had an agreement and we were both happy with it. You can't say that we weren't because you weren't there to see it. I was. Things went wrong when she suddenly felt an itch to do something bad and went about lying to get a twisted sort of pleasure from my pain.

 

And this "arrangement" wasn't the only reason I loved my wife. You obsess over this point, but to our relationship it wasn't such a big deal. It's a big deal to you, but it really wasn't to us.

 

I wasn't playing any "game" in our relationship. It wasn't a matter of "two can play at that game." There was no "game." It was a simple agreement between two people (which she was the first to suggest). I asked her if she also wanted to have her freedom and she declined. I told her that was fine as long as she talked to me about it if she changed her mind.

 

The purpose of talking about all of this was that there were no "games" to be played in our relationship. There were no lies necessary to be told. These were things she introduced into our relationship with her affair which could have totally been avoided.

 

I am not against things being fair and equal. I am not against open marriages on both sides. I am against lies and games in any relationship. If you can't understand this point, then yes, your pea brain cannot comprehend the situation.

 

Also, yes, there is more to my pain in this regard that I will be happy to share as soon as people calm down and show some willingness to listen rather than accuse, accuse, accuse ...... with little or no proof.

[vnqsh2001]

Why is this? Sounds very odd to me.

 

This sounds like a contradiction....Just sayin..........

 

But, you're living in separate houses.........

 

Good luck with this, as you seem to me, like you want to work this depression out on our own, which you have struggled with in the past.

We are not entirely living in separate houses. In fact, she is staying with me as often as I let her. Regardless, we talk a lot every day; usually for many hours. She is really showing a lot of incentive and willingness to work things out. The only problem here is that I'm depressed.

[vnqsh2001]

Let me rephrase the question for you:

 

What are you expecting from US (the people reading your posts)?

 

Clearly you're not happy with the responses. You seem to want to dictate how people respond to you...to insist that we stay only on the topics YOU feel are important.

 

That's not a "wise" expectation from a public "support" forum. That's like walking into a concert expecting them only to play the songs that YOU want to hear. Support isn't about just what you want to hear, or focusing on the things that you are comfortable with.

 

Since you don't want to focus on fixing your marriage from the damage done by infidelity, I'm not sure that this is the place to help you...I'd agree you'd be better served by posting what you want to focus on on a board (here on LS, or elsewhere) that is targeted for those areas.

 

This particular location of LS is intended for dealing with infidelity...not depression or medical issues.

 

Just my thoughts.

My depression is directly related to the infidelity in my marriage and it is the only thing holding back total and complete reconciliation. Sorry, but I think that also places the subject of this thread in the infidelity section, which I am perfectly willing to talk about in a reasonable manner. This means that there is no need to insult me or accuse me of things that are beyond your capability to know.

 

As for how I choose to steer the topic .... as the OP, don't I have a certain obligation to keep the topic focused anyway? I mean, if people can just talk about whatever they want then pretty soon we'll all start talking about the war in Iraq or something. No, there is a purpose to starting a thread and I want to focus on that purpose. If you all want to talk about other things amongst yourselves, fine. I'm going to try to focus on getting what I came here for, which is a little help coping with the pain caused by my wife's infidelity.

[Owl]

Fair enough...I'm back to following my own advice. Good luck to you.

[soserious1]

I'm going to try to focus on getting what I came here for, which is a little help coping with the pain caused by my wife's infidelity.

 

We've suggest counseling both couple's work and indivual therapy.. you're rejected that

 

We've suggest divorce.. you've rejected that

 

We've suggested that you stop drinking, exercise, eat well, try to sleep, you've rejected that as well.

 

Not being wise or rude here but what is it that you need or want this group to give you?

[Trimmer]

She is really showing a lot of incentive and willingness to work things out.

Based on your description of your agreement then, has she recognized, to your satisfaction, her part in your pain? Has she answered to you for her betrayal? She seems to be over her part in whatever happened, but you don't, because clearly you're still struggling with it. That's what makes me think it's not just as simple as:

The only problem here is that I'm depressed.

My point is that even if she's "over it" and is moving on, if it's still a problem for you, then it's a problem for the marriage, and it has to be considered a problem within the marriage, and for both parties.

 

My depression is directly related to the infidelity in my marriage....

My point exactly.

 

I am against lies and games in any relationship.

And I maintain that the lies that catalyzed your depression - your perceived betrayal by your wife - are still likely an issue underlying its continued presence. You can't look at your depression in isolation from the marriage and "the agreement" - the damage and pain and issues are all intertwined.

 

Again - she may have moved on, but if you haven't then it's still a problem for both of you and for the marriage.

 

I will tell you that I was much like you - without the clinical depression - after my wife's affair during our marriage a decade ago. She 'fessed up, came clean and then decided that that was it, and that we were "moving on" and there wasn't much more to say. I "forgave" her and decided that my continued pain and recovery were my own to bear. I can't be sure, but ultimately, I believe it was my (and our) failure to recognize the wake-up call and take that opportunity to work together on the real issues within the marriage that weakened it. We made it another decade, and had a couple great kids, and it wasn't even "my pain" or my inability to deal with the affair that destroyed the marriage. It was the fact that the same issues that were underneath before the first affair just got put away for a while, and eventually came back up and bit us in the ass.

 

See that's where I think "reconciliation" - as in getting back to the way things were before the affair - is not the only work to be done. If that's all you do, then you're potentially right back to the conditions that set up the affair/betrayal/breaking the agreement in the first place. If you really want to heal, you have to decide to reconcile, and then also commit to doing the work to get to those deeper issues. I think that in most cases, treating an affair as a "one time mistake," and just gritting your teeth and moving on, is itself a mistake

 

Just like the cheating spouse who says "oh my affair had nothing to do with the marriage..." is BS, I think for you to claim to compartmentalize your current depression apart from the marriage and your wife's infidelity is an act of denial that will hinder you from getting to the root of the real things that are broken deeper down.

 

You seem to think the only "problem" is that she broke your agreement. I say that a moment, an hour, a day before she broke the agreement, some deeper marital pathology had already been in existence for some time that paved the way to breaking it. That's the issue you will never get to if you just say "we're over it and moving on and my depression is now my problem."

 

Also, yes, there is more to my pain in this regard that I will be happy to share as soon as people calm down and show some willingness to listen rather than accuse, accuse, accuse ...... with little or no proof.

Ok, after all that thoughtful (I think...) advice, I hope you'll bear with me while I switch gears and go postal on your azz here for a minute. We're not sitting here at your feet, having eagerly paid for our tickets to listen to you, and waiting desperately for you to appear on stage and grace us with your story. Either share or don't, that's fine, but I'm not going to beg you to bare your soul.

 

It's up to you - but the response you get will correspond to the information you provide. If there's something "more to your pain" than you've revealed, and it's pertinent, then you've just cut off your own nose to spite your face by holding it back. So, all due respect, I suggest you don't lecture everyone else to calm down, as if hearing the final, actual, real, honest-to-goodness-now truth will be the treat you will pull out of your pocket as a reward for our good behavior.

 

To reiterate: this is an internet forum. If you're willing to subject yourself to that, you need to be ready to get a mixed bag, the full spectrum from hostility to empathy, and possibly some jewels too. If you need reliable help that you can be confident will be steady, reasoned, and professional, and ONLY that (and I repeat that I believe you do...) then you will need to get over your discomfort at seeking out that help professionally.

[vnqsh2001]

We've suggest counseling both couple's work and indivual therapy.. you're rejected that

 

We've suggest divorce.. you've rejected that

 

We've suggested that you stop drinking, exercise, eat well, try to sleep, you've rejected that as well.

 

Not being wise or rude here but what is it that you need or want this group to give you?

I haven't rejected any of those ideas. In fact, the closest I came to rejecting any of those ideas was by saying I don't want a divorce and neither does she.

[desertmoon]

vnqsh:

So you are depressed as a result of your wife's "little game". Did a medical doctor diagnose you? if yes, are you on medication? if you are on medication, perhaps you should wait and give those meds some time to work-it takes a few weeks, sometimes a month to see some changes. If you have not seen a medical doctor, I suggest that you go see one, so you can get chemical help. Do not get frustrated though, sometimes, it would take a few tries for your doctor to figure out what meds work best for you.

 

Perhaps when the chemicals in your brain are balanced and you feel better, your problems, albeit still there, (they won't disappear just because you feel better), you are better able to handle the realities and the consequences of whatever transpired in your marriage. It is difficult to try and solve problems when you are consumed with anger,sadness, unable to eat, unable to sleep, etc.etc. So fix what can be fixed by meds, then fix the other issues when you can think clearly or , at least, clearer.