Third Side of the Story

[vnqsh2001]

 

BUT these are her realities:

 

1) while you have a vast sexual appetite, you are not really anything to look at

2) while you were her ticket to a "better life"-she realized: "jesus! this man is not rich! what? I have to work so I can shop at WalMart??????"

3) you are not her forever (she does not want to live in an apartment forever, she wants a house, a white picket fence, etc.,

4)she wants someone younger, more hip-that's why she is not done surfing the web)

5) Except that, she has not found the next sucker....so please don't leave her... and find another woman online!

Wow. You do have a vivid imagination and I admit that would make a pretty good story. However, almost everything you said is false or completely off-base. I'm not going to waste too much time arguing every conjecture, but let's take a look at your "realities."

 

The realities are:

1.) I am good-looking. She, in fact, worries that I am better looking than her. I'm not old. I'm only a few years older than her. The man she had an affair with is the same age as me. I get women chasing me and hitting on me all the time; before I was married and after.

2.) She is not a gold digger. She can take care of herself. While I wouldn't call myself filthy rich, I have been successful in recent years and she has been a great support to me in my financial efforts. Both of our lives have improved dramatically thanks to our joint efforts.

3.) She would argue that she wants me forever and I believe that is the case. I am not just her passing phase, nor is she mine.

4.) She doesn't like younger men. She finds them too immature and she doesn't like it when I behave in a young fashion; though it is sometimes in my nature to do that.

5.) If she wanted to find another man (sucker), there are plenty around and she is good-looking and charming enough to snag him. Her intention was never to trade me in for another.

 

Ok. So when you're done believing you are wise and that everything fits within the parameters of your own experience, let me know. Perhaps we can have a real conversation about the way things really are in my life, ok? Not that I really care whether you wish to discuss it, but it is nice to make friends every or carry on discussions now and then with people who are more open-minded than most. So until then, I have to say your comments aren't the least bit insightful. They are annoying and insulting at best.; certainly not true.

[whichwayisup]

Bottomline is this. WHAT do you want to do now? Save your marriage or end it? Reguardless of the outcome here, you two are PARENTS and will have to deal with eachother on some level for the rest of your lives because of your children.

 

Get marriage counselling!

 

All this stuff, you did this, she did that, you said this, she said that - Does it matter now? You two BOTH did wrong and are in a very unhealthy place. You both need counselling, together and apart to fix this.

[BareGoddess]

 

Aye yi yi. Ok, so were you messing around too? Were you taking her offer and were you with another woman or women?

 

And if you took the deal, then you have nothing to complain about. Not saying you took the deal, but you aren't being real clear on this.

 

To clarify, he did take the deal.

 

I avoided "taking the deal" most of the time, but here were moments when having it there made it itmpossible to resist entirely.

 

This agreement had specific terms and conditions to follow. I wasn't just free to do anything I wanted, and neither was she. For instance, I couldn't just bring someone home to my apartment. I couldn't let other people see me messing around with another woman; I had to be discreet. I couldn't do it too often (this one was a little vague). I had to be home every night. The list goes on. She gave me rules and stipulations to follow and I expected her to follow the ones she set for herself as well.

 

So you see, since I had these rules to follow, it was quite impossible for me to go around town screwing every woman in sight. If you think that, you don't really have a clear picture of the way it was.

 

We don't have a clear picture because you've contradicted yourself a thousand times. You'd said there was no agreement, then you've said IF there was an agreement, blah, blah, and then you acknowledge there WAS an agreement.

 

In another thread, V insists that he's been faithful the entire 6 years. His wife said that he stays out all night on occasion.

 

Dexter, I was screaming at the screen! Finally toward the end you saw through all the smoke and mirrors and called V on his BS.

 

He will NEVER come clean and really own up to anything. There's absolutely nothing at all complex about this situation. It's so run 'o the mill that it's not even funny. Yet to hear the OP talk, it's sooooo complex and sooooo beyond us here and probably beyond a therapist.

 

It's not. It's a common situation. The fact is, you BOTH effed this one up with that whole "agreement." Why bother getting married (and staying married) at all if you both want to screw around?

 

I don't care how much you love each other, and I have no doubt that you do, love isn't enough to hold a marriage together.

 

V, you really don't acknowledge your part in this. You really don't. You talk the talk but you don't walk the walk in the end.

 

You lied on your other thread and said you have been faithful the entire length of the marriage. YOU LIED. Even here, you don't completely come out and disclose that you were screwing around.

 

All you want to do is split hairs about who was more cagey in their affairs. Who cares? You BOTH were deceitful.

 

And you're a fool if you think your wife wasn't deeply disturbed by your flirting with your sister-in-law. I think you used the word "uncomfortable!":rolleyes: She's just uncomfortable...Riiiight. Also, I suspect you did way more than just flirt with her. Your wife even said in her thread that when she uses the word "flirt" she really means "have sex with."

 

All you are is a little cry-baby who can't accept that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

You're both deceitful people who shouldn't be married to ANYONE, let alone to each other...but at least she's not the whiny cry baby who is balling about your indiscretions..she knew it was part of the deal or "agreement" as you say.

 

An agreement involves TWO people. I'm not sure you understand that.

 

In my opinion, this marriage doesn't have a chance in hell unless you immediately redefine the boundaries to include NO outside affairs..whether they be with or without the other's knowledge. It's a recipe for disaster.

 

And all that stuff about she wants soooo much attention, it's too much, she's insatiable, etc. etc...bull and more excuses and nonsense.

 

You call this a "bump" in the road but it's not. It's a fork in the road. You both have a decision to make. And you say everything was fine for the previous 6 years..yeah, right because you were effin' around oblivious to the fact that she was doing the same. Sure it was the happiest 6 years of your life!

 

So that's it...decide to stop with the dalliances...BOTH of you, or you'll never make it.

 

Good luck.

[Owl]

Marriage counseling?!?!?!?!?!

 

Clearly the "rules" you and your wife came up with are non-functional. Get real help in building some rules that will give your marriage a chance to survive and thrive.

[vnqsh2001]

Bottomline is this. WHAT do you want to do now? Save your marriage or end it? Reguardless of the outcome here, you two are PARENTS and will have to deal with eachother on some level for the rest of your lives because of your children.

 

Get marriage counselling!

 

All this stuff, you did this, she did that, you said this, she said that - Does it matter now? You two BOTH did wrong and are in a very unhealthy place. You both need counselling, together and apart to fix this.

No, you are right.

 

As for the "counseling advice", do you people ever get tired of beating others over the head with that? I mean, alright already! Your point is made. I hear you and I've even given my opinion on the matter. The bottom line is that it's still my decision whether I will do that or not. We are both of the opinion that counselors are not all they're cracked up to be. I'm considering it and my wife is still not sure whether she wants it either. That being said, do you have anything helpful to add in the meantime?

[Owl]

What can ANYONE add to help your situation at this point?

 

You're angry and berating everyone who offers anything contrary to what you want to hear.

 

You refuse the advice of all these posters, some with years of experience on this and other forums.

 

What are you hoping that we'll tell you? What are you hoping to "get" from LS?

[serial muse]

 

1. Clearly the "rules" you and your wife came up with are non-functional.

2. Get real help in building some rules that will give your marriage a chance to survive and thrive.

 

Even if you're tired of hearing #2, premise #1 is still going to be true. And at some point it'll be better if you acknowledge that you and your wife are both responsible for that. Owning your stuff, whether it's in the presence of a counselor or not, would be a healthy start. I don't see that it's worth suggesting anything else to you until you get there. And based on what you've typed, you're nowhere near that point yet. Many people like having a third party present to help them with that, precisely because the kind of DIY arbitrating you were attempting in an earlier thread can be fraught with the same issues that overwhelm the relationship itself. I think that's true of your "he said, she said" thread. You asked questions and she answered. You gave nothing of yourself. Perhaps a neutral third party would help to hold you accountable and keep things on track. But if you don't want to go that route, perhaps you can find it within yourself to hold yourself accountable at some point. Perhaps.

[whichwayisup]

Fine, forget marriage counselling. I won't mention it again.

 

How do you intend to work on things at home with your wife? How do you each learn to change your behaviour towards eachother? How will you each learn to communicate, really listen and understand one another? How do you gain the love and respect back for one another? How do you trust eachother? You need a game plan..

[BareGoddess]

I don't think I ever once mentioned counseling (there we agree..it's mostly a bunch of hooey) but I DID suggest you REDEFINE the boundaries of your marriage. That's your only chance here.

 

But you ignored that. Whatever. So you won't go to counseling and you won't redefine the boundaries. I don't know what you're looking for then in the way of help.

[whichwayisup]

Okay, sorry I kind of white lied..About not mentioning counselling..Oops..

 

Can you do this without the help of a professional? My guess is no because you and your wife have a very unhealthy relationship to begin with. This stuff goes back a long way and neither of you have the coping skills to deal with eachother without it turning into a pissing match. Neither of you genuinally respect one another.

 

This isn't about LOVE anymore, it's about meshing your lives into something wonderful and how things stand now? I can't see any glue that will hold you two together, even your kids can't help keep you two together.

 

Can you both know 100% that there will be no more cheating?

[vnqsh2001]

 

Good luck.

 

Bare, if this is so run-of-the-mill, then why is it clear to me you have no idea what you are talking about? I mean, I feel so frustrated at your lack of understanding on the whole matter that I just want to scream myself. I mean, I can start going through each of your comments one by one, but really .... what is the point? I know you're still not going to get it. This is what my wife wanted when she got on here. She wanted to cause me a headache.

 

I didn't lie. I've said it a hundred times already, but I'm saying it again. By this point I've just given up hope that I will find any decent people to communicate with on this forum. It was ok before my wife got on here and started screwing things up with her lies (though not perfect by any means), but now it's just getting ridiculous.

 

I was just on here to find an outlet for my real-life frustrations. Is that really so bad? Why do you feel you have to say anything if you have nothing nice to say anyway? What is the point? Do you just get on here and troll the boards for complete strangers to pick fights with? Does that release your frustrations? Are you meting out justice for some wrong that was perpetrated against you? Otherwise, I don't see the point in you getting involved in a way that isn't helpful or encouraging to others in any way.

[vnqsh2001]

Okay, sorry I kind of white lied..About not mentioning counselling..Oops..

 

Can you do this without the help of a professional? My guess is no because you and your wife have a very unhealthy relationship to begin with. This stuff goes back a long way and neither of you have the coping skills to deal with eachother without it turning into a pissing match. Neither of you genuinally respect one another.

 

This isn't about LOVE anymore, it's about meshing your lives into something wonderful and how things stand now? I can't see any glue that will hold you two together, even your kids can't help keep you two together.

 

Can you both know 100% that there will be no more cheating?

 

Strange as it may seem, rebuilding our relationship isn't the issue, people. She and I are not having any trouble keeping things together. The reason I got on this board was to try and cope with some of my own mixed up emotions and vent some frustrations. She and I have our relationship issues well in hand. There really isn't any doubt that we are going to work things out; despite what some people seem to believe on here.

 

You may not realize this, but the previous six years of our marriage were truly wonderful. We were both extremely happy. Things just got messed up recently when she decided to go out and have an affair. That was all. Now I'm the one still hurting over this and I'm looking for a way to deal with all the emotional garbage that got stirred up over it, but I know it will all work out fine as long as I weather the storm. I just hope I don't drink myself to death first.

[jwi71]

Vnqsh,

 

How do you want this to end? Reconcile or divorce?

 

What can you do to achieve your desired outcome?

 

What do you want or expect from LS at this point?

[serial muse]

Bare, if this is so run-of-the-mill, then why is it clear to me you have no idea what you are talking about? I mean, I feel so frustrated at your lack of understanding on the whole matter that I just want to scream myself. I mean, I can start going through each of your comments one by one, but really .... what is the point? I know you're still not going to get it. This is what my wife wanted when she got on here. She wanted to cause me a headache.

 

I didn't lie. I've said it a hundred times already, but I'm saying it again. By this point I've just given up hope that I will find any decent people to communicate with on this forum. It was ok before my wife got on here and started screwing things up with her lies (though not perfect by any means), but now it's just getting ridiculous.

 

I was just on here to find an outlet for my real-life frustrations. Is that really so bad? Why do you feel you have to say anything if you have nothing nice to say anyway? What is the point? Do you just get on here and troll the boards for complete strangers to pick fights with? Does that release your frustrations? Are you meting out justice for some wrong that was perpetrated against you? Otherwise, I don't see the point in you getting involved in a way that isn't helpful or encouraging to others in any way.

 

Seriously, come on, man. You know you at the very least lied by BIG omission, by not putting your story in context. I don't have time or the inclination to do a big post search, but here's just one sample of how disingenuous you have been:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1978588&postcount=118

 

and there's plenty more. Look, get this straight: no one's saying your wife is the awesomest awesomeness that ever awesomed. I'm 100% sure she's got serious issues of her own. But considering how you really can't handle people pointing out your own issues here, I can only imagine how that has played out in your marriage. The picture you have painted of yourself is not someone that would be easy to deal with or have an honest conversation with; I suspect your wife, too, knows that you only like to hear what you like to hear and that the fallout from telling you things you don't like is, well...possibly not always worth it.

 

Whatever, this is just from your handful of posts here. A counselor could do much better, and better still for your marriage if s/he saw your interactions together. That's pretty obvious; hence the beating of the dead horse.

[Dexter Morgan]

What can ANYONE add to help your situation at this point?

 

You're angry and berating everyone who offers anything contrary to what you want to hear.

 

Exactly. And what he wants to hear is that he should stay with her. He doesn't want to leave her for whatever reason

 

And now that he finally came out and told us what was going on, my advice now is, stay with her, but no longer complain about cheating since he is doing it too and agreed to the "offer" she gave him.

 

So yes, stay with her my man, and also take it like a man. You took the offer, you indulged yourself and now have no right to complain about what she is doing.

[Dexter Morgan]

Strange as it may seem, rebuilding our relationship isn't the issue, people. She and I are not having any trouble keeping things together. The reason I got on this board was to try and cope with some of my own mixed up emotions and vent some frustrations. She and I have our relationship issues well in hand. There really isn't any doubt that we are going to work things out; despite what some people seem to believe on here.

 

Not so if you have "issues".

 

but those issues should be a non-issue now that we know you messed around in the marriage too. You now have, whether you want to believe it or not, an open marriage. You agreed to it. You have the freedom to mess around on her, and she has the freedom to mess around on you. Oh, but with rules:rolleyes:

 

So welcome yourself to the world of open marriages and swinging!! Enjoy!!!

[vnqsh2001]

What can ANYONE add to help your situation at this point?

 

You're angry and berating everyone who offers anything contrary to what you want to hear.

 

You refuse the advice of all these posters, some with years of experience on this and other forums.

 

What are you hoping that we'll tell you? What are you hoping to "get" from LS?

Yes, they can and they were before all the judgmental people jumped on my threads. I'm not trying to simply berate people for saying things that are contrary, I'm just pointing out that there is still a lot they don't understand and that they are jumping to conclusions that aren't even based in fact. Yes, maybe I'm being a little defensive as well, but you must admit that some of their comments are downright rude and insulting; especially the ones that simply state that I'm lying or make ludicrous conjectures.

 

I'm not here to hear what to do about my relationship with my wife. I'm not here to find out what is "wrong with me" (or her for that matter). I'm not here to be insulted and called a liar at every turn. I'm not here to be judged by an angry mob with a handful of lies and half-truths. I'm not here to defend myself at every turn.

 

I am here to simply relate my story and talk about my own emotions. That's it. It's as simple as that. It's what I was doing before my wife interfered. If I can get a few people to listen and even understand it, then great. I think that would be a great release for me. Really, I just don't want to keep feeling so sad and depressed during this difficult period of my life. I know it will be over soon and my life will go on like before. But it always seems darkest before the dawn and I just want to talk about that so that I don't get drunk and turn the shotgun on myself instead.

[vnqsh2001]

Not so if you have "issues".

 

but those issues should be a non-issue now that we know you messed around in the marriage too. You now have, whether you want to believe it or not, an open marriage. You agreed to it. You have the freedom to mess around on her, and she has the freedom to mess around on you. Oh, but with rules:rolleyes:

 

So welcome yourself to the world of open marriages and swinging!! Enjoy!!!

Ok. Thanks for your opinion. Unfortunately, I don't agree with you about the open marriage thing. I really was mislead on the whole thing and she agrees with me on that point. She and I both conclude that she didn't have the right to do what she did, but she did it anyway in a moment of selfishness.

 

But whatever your opinion on the logic of the situation, I was still hurt like hell ..... and for more than this simple reason. It was much more complex than that. That's what I was hoping to discuss and deal with on this forum before my wife got on here and started stirring things up. Unfortunately, I may have to look elsewhere to deal with these issues now.

[BareGoddess]

Wow, wow, and wow. So really this should be in the rant section right?

 

You just want people to say "there, there V...what a horrible, horrible thing your wife did! You did nothing wrong. I understand how horrible you must feel. Please don't shoot yourself or drink yourself into a stupor. She's the one to suffer. You did absolutely nothing wrong by taking her deal. She's horrendous. Shame on her for also doing what you were doing. Who does she think she is? This is the most unique situation I've ever seen. It's too deep for most of us to comprehend. What we do comprehend is your pain though. We're all in pain for you."

 

All better now?

[Dexter Morgan]

Ok. Thanks for your opinion. Unfortunately, I don't agree with you about the open marriage thing.

 

Of course you don't:rolleyes:

 

 

I really was mislead on the whole thing and she agrees with me on that point. She and I both conclude that she didn't have the right to do what she did, but she did it anyway in a moment of selfishness.

 

Hmmm, what part of you having the freedom to do as you wish, but with rules, with other women didn't you understand?

 

I think you conveniently forget what you have written here.

 

But whatever your opinion on the logic of the situation, I was still hurt like hell ..... and for more than this simple reason. It was much more complex than that. That's what I was hoping to discuss and deal with on this forum before my wife got on here and started stirring things up. Unfortunately, I may have to look elsewhere to deal with these issues now.

 

The only way, it seems, that you will be able to deal with your "issues" is for people to tell you EXACTLY what you want to hear. For people to tell you to stay in the marriage.

 

I understand the hurt of finding out someone betrayed you. But I also know that I didn't go out and get me some strange and then still act like I had the moral high ground.

 

 

what you need is a good shrink. And I'm not talking counseling for you two, I'm talking about seeing someone for YOUR issues.

 

and bottom line, she is ALWAYS going to want different men to sleep with. That isn't going to change not only because once a cheater always a cheater, but as evidenced by her responses in this thread.

 

But if you are ok with that and you are still agreeing to the open marriage she wants, then more power to ya!!!

[vnqsh2001]

Seriously, come on, man. You know you at the very least lied by BIG omission, by not putting your story in context. I don't have time or the inclination to do a big post search, but here's just one sample of how disingenuous you have been:

 

If I omitted anything, it was because I had more important issues to address and much less desire to satisfy everyone's curiosity on every little detail.

 

Look, whether I tell the whole story now or later, what difference does it make? Everyone's still getting sidetracked on these points that don't even need to be discussed!

 

I didn't tell the whole story? No duh! You want to know the reason? Jack Nicholson said it best when he said something like, "You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!" The truth is that I knew people would get confused by the whole story and I thought the issues I wanted to deal with were confusing enough. This is an anonymous board and I wanted to keep things as simple as possible. There. OK? Make sense to you now?

[Lishy]

V, you have just sat and told us what you want from us and I think you are in the wrong place.

 

You are saying this and that and then expecting everyone to just say "uhuh, oh yeah and poor you" we are real people with real emotions and our own real issues we are not robots.

 

I see a million things I could say to you, but I wont as anytime someone hits home you throw your toys out of the pram and threaten to kill yourself!! WTF

 

Yes you have issues but this passive/aggressive thing has to stop! Grow up, man up and realise you made a mistake, your wife made a mistake, you love each other and dont want to split up - Just forgive each other already and get on with being happy and not a spoiled brat!

[vnqsh2001]

Vnqsh,

 

How do you want this to end? Reconcile or divorce?

 

What can you do to achieve your desired outcome?

 

What do you want or expect from LS at this point?

Why is it everyone thinks I'm here to ask for advice on my marriage? That is not why I'm here.

[whichwayisup]

But it is what led you here. The problems in your marriage and how you are handling it all. Remember, you posted this in the infidelity section so all this DOES have alot to do with your wife and marriage.

[BareGoddess]

If I omitted anything, it was because I had more important issues to address and much less desire to satisfy everyone's curiosity on every little detail.

 

You call sleeping with other women during your marriage a "little detail?" Uhm, ok. And you didn't "omit" even, you flat out LIED about it on your other thread. I can go look and quote you if you wish.