guys who dont pay

[Tomcat33]

I agree with your whole post Cherry, in particular though this is true:

 

Women rarely ask men on dates because for most men, that is a turn-off. Generally speaking, and there are exceptions, men do best when they are pursuing, not being pursued.

 

 

A lot of men don't like being asked out they like to do the asking, they like to do the picking, they like to do the choosing/chasing. I can think of a few instances of men I had a feeling were really into me, and I am sure if I would have asked them out it they would have been super happy to accept, but they are guys who I got to know and can see that were just too shy to ask. Some guys don't like it. Just like a lot of guys don't like it if you put out too quickly, I mean they LIKE it, but they would view you differently if you did. Their heads would go spinning thinking you do this with ALL the men and they are kind of grossed out about that. SO that's another price we have "modern liberated women" STILL have to pay to pay.

 

So as guys what would you prefer paying for a date? Or paying with your reputation for every move you make?

 

 

I think I have over the course of this thread, but here's a definitive list.

 

I missed this yesterday, thanks for detailing this out:

 

I don't get why I should.

Fair enough.

 

I wouldn't like to think that the woman might not want to be there if it wasn't for the free drinks.

I thought you were confident enough in your charming abilities that a woman WILL be into you on your charm alone, so why would the drink buying getting in the way of that?

 

I have some issues with modern feminism, but I have always supported women's 'equality' and the notion of the man paying seems a throwback to antiquated patriarchal tradition that I don't care for and I think is actually insulting to a 'modern woman.'

 

You see but I think a lot of women would agree that equality is what we want in the workplace, in relationships we still want to be the woman and we like the guy to be the guy.

 

You know the more women promote this going dutch business the bigger wedge they place between the sexes in the dating world and the MORE confusion we create. There is no REAL incentive for a man to ask her out anymore if everyone is going dutch there is no REAL magic to a man chosing to date A special woman VS "hanging out" with a bunch of women who he sees pretty much on the same standards he would a friend. So women also try less knowing this, knowing that men are more laid back that they are not all that into putting effort so women try less as well. It really breaks the cycle of attraction somewhat if you think about it.

 

You think it is a coincidence I like taking care of a guy? You think it is a coincidence that when a guy offers to come up and pick me up in his car I show up with two coffees because I know he will like the treat? Or that I tell him to come over after work for a home cooked mean. No, it's not. It is a nice cycle of recprocating love acts that are pretty much set from the get-go of when that first date happens.

 

 

I think a lot of women (that I know, that I'd connect with) see a man urging to pay as trying to impress with his wallet to cover up other flaws. Past gfs and female friends have mocked the sort of guy that tries to impress by buying girls drinks/dinner/etc

 

I would agree with that to some extent, if it was just some random guy at some bar who walked up to me and said what are you drinking and started buying me and my friends drinks I have thought he was trying too hard. But if it is just me an him and he took the initiative to ask me out I see nothing wrong with that, and by the end of the night I can see for myself what the guy is about if he is trying to hide something or not.

 

Sally4Sara was saying something along the lines of you just met how do you know if you are attracted to someone on a first day, C'MON you know if you are attracted you know in the first 5 mins of conversation if you are attracted to someone. You certainly won't know if you want to see them again or spend the rest of your lives with themm but you know are attracted to them.

 

 

 

It may give the woman an uncomfortable idea that she may 'owe' me something if I treat her.

 

NEVER, I never feel endebted to a man EVER! I never feel pressured to have sex, I can assert myself prefectly well, and I can let go of myself just as well when the mood is right. So no, can't relate to that. I am a go with what you feel sort of person, if the feeling is right then that is my compass. Hasn't failed me yet, knock on wood.

 

It's very normal in the circles I move in.

On a couple of occasions where I have 'splashed the cash' I could sense it was actually a turn-off for the women in question.

 

Not sure what "splashing the cash" is, but it does sound kind of cheesy.

 

 

I have had gfs who said my cheeky nerve to ask them to buy me a drink instead of all the guys constantly offering to buy them one was refreshing and a turn-on.

 

Hmmm.. I thought you said in London it is customary for men not to offer?

 

 

I am not applying to be a 'good provider' at least in the early stages of seeing someone.

 

Fair enough and you know something THIS is really what it boils down to and you have just proven why my weeding out process is perfect just as it is. I am taking applicants for long term potential, not for a one night stand that can be done easy enough if I dress up sexy and show up at any bar I have a mate for every night of the week. That is not my goal. And we can say all we want that in the early stages of dating you don't know if you want something long term etc. but most of us do have certain goals in mind, SURE I won't know if a guy WILL in fact be someone I can fall in love with or vice versa and have long term potential with, but I can certainly set the stage so that the main act reflects the play I want showing in my theatre. Guys in their 20's maybe won't relate to this perhaps but older guys who also want a long term relationship will.

 

 

 

I treat someone when they have done something to deserve it, not before.

 

Like what for example? Offer you good sex? Hate to be so crass but who is prostituting now?

 

 

You see if a man can spend cash on you before he even has had sex with you that says to me he is appreciating WHO you are not what you are and in this day it is nice to see men who appreciate substance over quick fixes.

 

 

 

PS Last night I had a terrific date, with a man who paid.

[Tomcat33]

I'm glad you're interested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Going_Dutch#International_practices

 

The norm part... I guess you'll have to take my word for it that I'm not consciously deceiving you. Or not.

 

Thanks for providing a source for your statement. Firstly, I hope you realize just how unreliable Wikipedia can be for the simple fact that it is created by anyone, and people post mostly uncredited facts. I could go on there and change that page now and it would read what I want it to read. These are not published credited facts, they are "conversational facts" if you will.

If you notice under the Etymology section it says this:

 

The phrase "going Dutch" probably originates from Dutch etiquette. :laugh:

 

No reputable source would sate "probably" when offering factual information.

And in fact they are wrong, it probably does not come from that origin at all. It comes from this one (see Sydney Morning Harold for news article and feel free to look up origin of "Going Dutch 17th century British expression, to fact check the info yourself):

 

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/10/03/1064988401413.html?from=storyrhs

 

Now just as they couldn't even get the origin straight I have my reasons to also doubt how they came about deciding that Holland is a country that largely supports going dutch.

I'll have to research that too because quite frankly I don't support Wikipedia as reputable source for information. Not completely discounting your admission but just saying we should look into it further.

 

I do know that the Dutch are very liberal and pragmatic that much is true, so it could be accurate.

[CommitmentPhobe]

There's no way I'm ever going to go pay like this. Firstly because I'm hot and I can get away with it, secondly have you seen all the **** on this forum? "Such and such I went out with and I didn't like the way his hair flopped over his head so the 4th guy I'm dating seems a better prospect".... too expensive a business to get involved with. Go down the pub, have a laugh and then hit the sack, that's fine by me.

[Tomcat33]

There's no way I'm ever going to go pay like this. Firstly because I'm hot and I can get away with it, secondly have you seen all the **** on this forum? "Such and such I went out with and I didn't like the way his hair flopped over his head so the 4th guy I'm dating seems a better prospect".... too expensive a business to get involved with. Go down the pub, have a laugh and then hit the sack, that's fine by me.

 

 

Well you sound young still so might as well enjoy it now while you can because believe me when you get older your looks alone ain't gonna count for SHIIT! Trust me on that.

[CommitmentPhobe]

Well you sound young still so might as well enjoy it now while you can because believe me when you get older your looks alone ain't gonna count for SHIIT! Trust me on that.

 

It's fine I'll fall back on my charm.

 

I still wont have to pay. I'm not that kind of guy.

[anne1707]

There's no way I'm ever going to go pay like this. Firstly because I'm hot and I can get away with it

 

 

 

It's fine I'll fall back on my charm.

.

 

 

What charm?

[Star Gazer]

Who is more special on on a date, the man or the woman? You expect not to pay.

 

Gender doesn't matter. The GUEST/INVITEE is special. Therefore, they should be treated, regardless of gender. They certainly shouldn't be TOLD (as you do!) to pony up!

 

I can only assume you're all bent out of shape about who pays for dates because you've paid for a lot of first dates. I'm also assuming you've had a ton of first dates, but very few beyond that. And I do believe your attitude in this regard is probably why.

[CommitmentPhobe]

What charm?

 

 

Have we met?

 

The type that gets me laid frequently.

 

Last thing a woman I've been on a date with is thinking about is the $20 I did or didn't pay for. Only thing she'll have complained about is the fact she can't sit down.

[anne1707]

Have we met?

 

The type that gets me laid frequently.

 

Last thing a woman I've been on a date with is thinking about is the $20 I did or didn't pay for. Only thing she'll have complained about is the fact she can't sit down.

 

 

Only because she is running away as fast as she can

[mr.dream merchant]

Have we met?

 

The type that gets me laid frequently.

 

Last thing a woman I've been on a date with is thinking about is the $20 I did or didn't pay for. Only thing she'll have complained about is the fact she can't sit down.

 

Rofl you feel me?! That and the knot on her head from the constant banging against the backdoor of my whip. **** at the end of the night she'll toss me the $20 for gas money.

[Star Gazer]

Only thing she'll have complained about is the fact she can't sit down.

 

No means no.

[Tomcat33]

Have we met?

 

The type that gets me laid frequently.

 

Last thing a woman I've been on a date with is thinking about is the $20 I did or didn't pay for. Only thing she'll have complained about is the fact she can't sit down.

 

Charming.

 

That's not a date hun. You are discribing the average garden variety man-slut. Who I would assume also attracts similar women in satus. Quite frankly it is nothing to be proud of especially in this day in age with all the nasty infections running amuck.

[CommitmentPhobe]

No means no.

 

:lmao:

[Adri Ana]

Guy A: First date he paid ($20)

 

second date: i paid for my own. He never offered. I felt as though he should have paid. ($40)

 

 

Guy B: First date he paid ($25)

Second date he paid ($15)

Third time i saw him he asked me if i had money so he could buy a snack while at the movies. I also drove and paid for the movie. ($35)

 

 

I need to feel like he can be "the man" seems like i might be dating some cheap guys?

 

 

 

uuuuuuhhhh ...

they had at least to try to impress !

[Tomcat33]

Rofl you feel me?! That and the knot on her head from the constant banging against the backdoor of my whip. **** at the end of the night she'll toss me the $20 for gas money.

 

 

Gees that's a shock YOU Mr Dream, a woman hater? I would have never guessed that from your previous posts on this thread. Concidentally you have also been agressively against paying for a woman on a date.

 

See the true colours eventually always come out. To all those women who kept asking why we were going on and on discussing this topic?

HERE is your answer: because if you press hard enough the truth always comes out in the wash.

 

Thank you for that very insightful post Mr "Dream" you made my night.

[The Collector]

Gender doesn't matter. The GUEST/INVITEE is special. Therefore, they should be treated, regardless of gender. They certainly shouldn't be TOLD (as you do!) to pony up!

 

I don't see it as a guest/invitee deal. As I've said, if you don't want to meet, don't. Tradition/gender roles being what they are, it's customary for the man to ask the woman, mostly. But after that it's two adults meeting up to see if they click. No need for one to pay for the other's time.

 

I can only assume you're all bent out of shape about who pays for dates because you've paid for a lot of first dates. I'm also assuming you've had a ton of first dates, but very few beyond that. And I do believe your attitude in this regard is probably why.

 

Heh. I don't want to blow my own trumpet but you force me to to. You couldn't be further from the truth. I've been spectacularly successful with women, probably the best out of anyone I've ever known. I've dated and had relationships with the most desirable and popular women around (and never paid for their share) for over 20 years. Also I'm very generous with my money, time and affection once I know the person. My issue with this subject is purely motivated by fairness, and challenging the entitlement issues of many women (see the start of this thread for an example).

[CommitmentPhobe]

Charming.

 

That's not a date hun. You are discribing the average garden variety man-slut. Who I would assume also attracts similar women in satus. Quite frankly it is nothing to be proud of especially in this day in age with all the nasty infections running amuck.

 

So you're calling me a man slut and saying I attract slutty women and saying it's nothing to be proud of. LOL fair enough.

[mr.dream merchant]

Gees that's a shock YOU Mr Dream, a woman hater? I would have never guessed that from your previous posts on this thread. Concidentally you have also been agressively against paying for a woman on a date.

 

See the true colours eventually always come out. To all those women who kept asking why we were going on and on discussing this topic?

HERE is your answer: because if you press hard enough the truth always comes out in the wash.

 

Thank you for that very insightful post Mr "Dream" you made my night.

 

Rofl there's nothing hateful about tossing a female some good sex then her givin me dough out of being thankful. I still stand by my opinions. Men shouldn't have to pay all the time.

[Tomcat33]

So you're calling me a man slut and saying I attract slutty women and saying it's nothing to be proud of. LOL fair enough.

 

 

I am saying what you described fits that description, I don't know YOU personally. But if I were to look at what you described it does fit the bill.

[CommitmentPhobe]

I am saying what you described fits that description, I don't know YOU personally. But if I were to look at what you described it does fit the bill.

 

I don't think you know what you're talking about.

 

Any man worth his salt does not go out dropping his cash on dates here and there. As a guy you're asking for a bulldozing. We're in a relationship? Fine, I'll splash whatever I feel like splashing on you. I don't know you... I'm not buying you dinner, where's the sense in that? Look at the OP. First guy spent $20 on a dinner and she's complaining that he didn't pay for the second. Guy can't win. If I go out for a drink with you and have some fun and you enjoy it you're not going to be complaining about that $20 or whatever you're just going to be looking forward to seeing me next. And yes I do sleep around a lot and you'll be surprised what "status" these women are.

[Tomcat33]

Rofl you feel me?! That and the knot on her head from the constant banging against the backdoor of my whip. **** at the end of the night she'll toss me the $20 for gas money.

 

 

I am done with our interaction Mr. Dream you gave me what I need out of this discussion. You clearly don't respect women and I suspected that all along but this last post spells it out nicely. Most men who are selfish and have hang ups about paying for a woman DON'T respect women and ONLY see women as objects, not as human beings.

 

YOU solidified every single negative thing I was already thinking about men who don't pay. And THAT is why I avoid men like that.

 

I tend to appreciate respect, as most people do.

[BareGoddess]

The thing is, that plenty of women DO go for those types of men, TC. That leaves the good ones for the rest of us.

 

It's the same as some women going for the same type of "macho" men over and over again...the ones who tend to be abusive. Or the ones who end up with the men who can't keep it in their pants.

 

There's someone for everyone, right?

[Tomcat33]

The thing is, that plenty of women DO go for those types of men, TC. That leaves the good ones for the rest of us.

 

It's the same as some women going for the same type of "macho" men over and over again...the ones who tend to be abusive. Or the ones who end up with the men who can't keep it in their pants.

 

There's someone for everyone, right?

 

 

Absolutely BareGoddess and that is what makes the world so interesting the fact there is someone for everyone!! There are a lot of women that feed into this kind of male ego. Which leaves all the good ones for us.

 

Dating is about ruling out the people who are not right for you so that you can devote your BEST to the person who IS right for you. When women give up a chance to be courted they also give up their right to selection. Something to think about when you are are so quick to drive home the "I am woman hear me roar this is 2009" stuff.

 

Take special note that if we were to go back and revisit this entire thread and look at all the men who claimed they would never pay:

 

what is the one commonality all these men seem to have when excusing their attitude?

 

They ALL consistently rely on their good looks and charm as virtue for getting a woman. They place ALL the focus on that. And guess what? When you are THAT into yourself there will never be room for any lady in that relationship, these men love themselves and only themselves. i pretty much called that early on, too selfish eternally stuck in "bachelor" mode.

 

I have a very vivid picture of what these guys are about, I hope you do too out there. I think this thread has played out rather nicely.

[mr.dream merchant]

I am done with our interaction Mr. Dream you gave me what I need out of this discussion. You clearly don't respect women and I suspected that all along but this last post spells it out nicely. Most men who are selfish and have hang ups about paying for a woman DON'T respect women and ONLY see women as objects, not as human beings.

 

YOU solidified every single negative thing I was already thinking about men who don't pay. And THAT is why I avoid men like that.

 

I tend to appreciate respect, as most people do.

 

My sexual performance and the person on the receiving end's appreciation of it says nothing about my performance as a faithful boyfriend and a respectful person of women. You were done when you registered your skewed and bias view of dating onto Loveshack. And just to clarify, you know, incase your small brain couldn't comprehend what I typed to the other poster, I was joking about giving your date great sex, so great that instead of you paying for anything she pays for it all. There's nothing sexist, unfaithful, or pig-headed about that.

[The Collector]

And guess what? When you are THAT into yourself there will never be room for any lady in that relationship, these men love themselves and only themselves. i pretty much called that early on, too selfish eternally stuck in "bachelor" mode.

 

Guess what? I've been in many serious committed LTRs where I have cherished and taken care of my woman. I'm not a cheat or an abuser and and am on good terms with all my exes. So bang goes your theory.