guys who dont pay

[Untouchable_Fire]

Listen hun NO ONE is forcing you to do anything! If you don't feel a woman is worth paying for the date, then DON'T.

 

It's pretty simple really. I don't want a man to pay for me who doesn't feel like doing that. That's just stupid! I think most decent women want to know that the guy is doing it because he would LIKE to not out of some sense of obligation or dating protocol. You have NO obligation to a woman you just met on a first date.

 

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[Untouchable_Fire]

Let me try to explain it. You're right, we do demand equal treatment in the workplace and other social institutions... but expect different (yes, special) treatment in the romantic realm. We're still women, even though we're out there in the jungle right alongside you guys working our @sses off for that almighty paycheck. But we still want to be women... and we still want you to be the man, when it comes to romantic relationships. It's the stuff life is made of!

 

LOL... so your saying life isn't fair?

 

Ok... I think I can handle that.

 

Completely agree with you! I would really like to see maternity leave for fathers, for example - the exact same rights and benefits a woman gets when she has a baby. Fathers have babies too!! albeit not in the same way. And I would also like to see fathers carrying equal legal weight to mothers in the courts. We're getting there... all too slowly, but it is changing.

But the mating dance is a completely different story. Would you REALLY want a woman to take the lead, make all the moves, and pay for everything?? The guys I know, it would totally creep them out!

 

I guess we have come to a point of complete agreement.

[The Collector]

But we still want to be women... and we still want you to be the man, when it comes to romantic relationships. It's the stuff life is made of!

 

I agree. But paying isn't manly in a good way, it's patriarchal and unfair in a bad way.

 

Would you REALLY want a woman to take the lead, make all the moves, and pay for everything?? The guys I know, it would totally creep them out!

 

I don't mind women making a move. And I don't mind them paying (roughly) half, or even all of it if they are feeling generous. Any man that would be creeped out by a woman paying half is overly reliant on his wallet to impress, which to me is kind of sad.

[OpenBook]

I don't mind women making a move. And I don't mind them paying (roughly) half, or even all of it if they are feeling generous. Any man that would be creeped out by a woman paying half is overly reliant on his wallet to impress, which to me is kind of sad.

 

No offense, but I'm not going to take your word for it, and instead going with my real-life experience, and everything I've observed - which is the complete opposite of what you're saying here.

 

If there's one thing I've learned about men (in general), it's that what they say is often in direct contradiction to what they actually do. Especially when it comes to women.

[Touche]

Let me try to explain it. You're right, we do demand equal treatment in the workplace and other social institutions... but expect different (yes, special) treatment in the romantic realm. We're still women, even though we're out there in the jungle right alongside you guys working our @sses off for that almighty paycheck. But we still want to be women... and we still want you to be the man, when it comes to romantic relationships. It's the stuff life is made of!

 

 

 

Completely agree with you! I would really like to see maternity leave for fathers, for example - the exact same rights and benefits a woman gets when she has a baby. Fathers have babies too!! albeit not in the same way. And I would also like to see fathers carrying equal legal weight to mothers in the courts. We're getting there... all too slowly, but it is changing.

 

But the mating dance is a completely different story. Would you REALLY want a woman to take the lead, make all the moves, and pay for everything?? The guys I know, it would totally creep them out!

 

Yep, that's been my experience also. At least at first. After the first few dates, I've always insisted on treating the guy or having him over for dinner or even bringing dinner to his house. That's what I did with my H in our early dating.

 

And I'm with TC on this...I never encountered men who asked me out and seemed bitter or resentful or in any way unwilling to pay for the date. Never.

 

Oh and Mr. Dream (funny name) I already made dinner for my family.

 

And no, we're not completely equal. Ever tried to give birth?

 

Look, for the most part, I believe there's someone for everyone. We traditional gals would never go for the men who whine about this. No way. But then, those men probably wouldn't like us either. We're used to treating our men like MEN. Those types of men wouldn't know what to do with women like us. I'm quite sure they've never really experienced it.

[The Collector]

No offense, but I'm not going to take your word for it, and instead going with my real-life experience, and everything I've observed - which is the complete opposite of what you're saying here.

 

If there's one thing I've learned about men (in general), it's that what they say is often in direct contradiction to what they actually do. Especially when it comes to women.

 

I'm speaking for myself, but the same holds true for most of the men and women I know. But I live in trendy London and you live in the Deep South, so things are probably different.

[Tomcat33]

I don't mind women making a move. And I don't mind them paying (roughly) half, or even all of it if they are feeling generous. Any man that would be creeped out by a woman paying half is overly reliant on his wallet to impress, which to me is kind of sad.

 

Fair assesment / perception. From the female prespective though, I can say that any man that can't rely on his wallet/financial power as an addition to impress, and soley relies on his "charm" and magnificent abilites to woo a woman in bed is probably a man who has to overcompensate because he is not that stable economically speaking. That also denotes other even more unattractive qualites which stem from being financially unstable and those are irresponsibility, lack of dedication, lack of commitment, lack of drive, immaturity even, and more imporantly laziness. ALL qualities which I might add which tend to be rejected and offputting to most people of both genders.

 

While I love a charming man, charm alone ain't gonna pay the mortgage or put the kids through school. I would love to have kids some day and I would want nothing but the best for them. Charm and, hearty country song lyrics along with great cunnilingus abilities ain't gonna cut it. Ya know what am sayin?

 

And please don't tell me I am a materialistic bitch because I have set certain social standards for myself, and I won't call you superficial jerk when you choose to date the hot bodied baby over the chubby nice girl. Cool?

[The Collector]

And please don't tell me I am a materialistic bitch because I have set certain social standards for myself, and I won't call you superficial jerk when you choose to date the hot bodied baby over the chubby nice girl. Cool?

 

Can't argue with that.

[Lucky555]

I'm looking for romance, compatibility, and a possible relationship with a guy. (if these aspects are fulfilled then I'm in)

 

I do like the guy paying on the first date. I don't date guys that I'm not interested in. I don't go looking for guys with money. I don't date guys that like to sleep around. I don't sleep with random guys. I know what I desire in a man.

 

This man is attractive and he has a job. The objective here is ROMANCE and me feeling like I am the only woman he desires and wants! If it takes paying for a first date to do this, then why not? He wouldn't be wasting his time at all.

This guy has taken more than he has given is what i am saying.

I have not felt ROMANCED or SWEPT OFF MY FEET!

I was genuinely interested in these two guys. I like the guy paying for the first date and I DO OFFER MY MONEY to cover expenses.

 

The guy shouldn't be asking me for money for his candy or snacks. Sorry this is not cool it shows lack of financial stability.

 

In my past I dated a guy who would ask me for money while we dated just as this guy did to cover a meal or get him a drink......Pretty soon i found out HIS DAD MANAGED HIS MONEY which was why he didn't have it on him!

 

I want the guy to be independent. RELY ON HIMSELF. Treat me good and I will treat him good.

 

This is DATING. NOT A RELATIONSHIP.

 

 

[Touche]

Lucky, I see nothing unreasonable in what you said.

 

Hey, it works both ways. My H would have never continued dating me if I were financially irresponsible. When he met me, I had my own apt (no roomates either! lol,) car paid for, good savings account, etc.

 

His ex had secret credit cards and P.O. boxes while he was married. Yeah, so a woman who was financially responsible was a biggie to him.

 

What's so wrong with us expecting the same from a man?

[movingonandon]

Guy A: First date he paid ($20)

 

second date: i paid for my own. He never offered. I felt as though he should have paid. ($40)

 

 

Guy B: First date he paid ($25)

Second date he paid ($15)

Third time i saw him he asked me if i had money so he could buy a snack while at the movies. I also drove and paid for the movie. ($35)

 

 

I need to feel like he can be "the man" seems like i might be dating some cheap guys?

 

 

These two sound a little too cheap.

I personally am strongly opposed to the *assumption* that the man should pay all the time, though I - and I think most men - do it all the time without even wasting time to think about it - but just because I/we think it's a nice touch, not ever a big deal, just a part of making somebody comfortable. All I ask for is just pretend to reach for the check every once in a while.

[The Collector]

A guy can be financially secure without proving it by paying for all the dates, right? It's a matter of principle with me, not financial hardship.

 

And Lucky, the guy may have lots of faults, but putting a candy bar in with your groceries does not seem like the crime of the century. Even if I had a million bucks I could be forgiven for thinking that you wouldn't penny-pinch over a lousy bar of candy.

[Touche]

These two sound a little too cheap.

I personally am strongly opposed to the *assumption* that the man should pay all the time, though I - and I think most men - do it all the time without even wasting time to think about it - but just because I/we think it's a nice touch, not ever a big deal, just a part of making somebody comfortable. All I ask for is just pretend to reach for the check every once in a while.

 

Absolutely, totally, 1000% agree with that. There's nothing uglier than a woman (or man, when it comes to sex, for that matter) with a sense of entitlement.

 

It's for that reason that I always offered to pay. And I would have had any of the guys who asked me out, taken me up on it. No question.

 

But in all honesty, I would have never gone out with them again.

[Touche]

A guy can be financially secure without proving it by paying for all the dates, right? It's a matter of principle with me, not financial hardship.

 

And Lucky, the guy may have lots of faults, but putting a candy bar in with your groceries does not seem like the crime of the century. Even if I had a million bucks I could be forgiven for thinking that you wouldn't penny-pinch over a lousy bar of candy.

 

Funny, I could have said the exact same thing regarding my feelings on a guy paying for the first few dates.

 

My feeling is this: When I was single I didn't ask men out. (Well only once but that's irrelevant...) So men asked me out. I was raised that you invite someone somewhere THEY pay..even if it's a girlfriend of mine. I can remember asking this or that girlfriend out somewhere and I'd always pay (if she let me anyway.)

 

At the point in the relationship where I'm comfortable enough to start calling HIM without waiting for him to call me, that's when I would start to treat him and pay for our outings here and there.

 

Before that, during the "courting" period (when he was the only one doing the asking out), yes I offered to pay but yeah, I expected HIM to pay.

 

What's so wrong with that?

[Wicked Child]

I paid my ex's way for six years.....Everything....He didn't work once.....(yeah, i know i'm stupid....love does that) It's cool to pay your own way, but it's also nice to be treated.

[Touche]

I paid my ex's way for six years.....Everything....He didn't work once.....(yeah, i know i'm stupid....love does that) It's cool to pay your own way, but it's also nice to be treated.

 

WOW, are you serious? SIX YEARS? As I stated earlier, I wouldn't have gone past the first date!

[The Collector]

 

What's so wrong with that?

 

The problem with 'who asks, pays' is that men do 99% of the asking. If you accept an invitation it's because you want to be with that person, there's no obligation to say yes.

 

It's interesting that you say that if you invite a female friend out, you pay, but I don't think that's common. If a friend of mine asked me out for a drink I wouldn't expect them to pay for me.

 

And the principle I am talking about is that I don't buy women's time. I think it cheapens us both.

[Wicked Child]

WOW, are you serious? SIX YEARS? As I stated earlier, I wouldn't have gone past the first date!

 

 

Unfortunately, yes...And hindsight is effin 20/20....It wasn't worth all the arguments and frustration..I left his butt a year and a half ago, and he hasn't changed one bit. Funny thing..I ran into him this past weekend, and he tried chatting me up again...It felt so good to laugh and walk away without so much as a hello.

 

Guys, if there's anything that can break a rel, it's disappointment. Don't disappoint your women.

[Shygirl15]

Now if her fellow sister (waitress) gave her the bill and won't give me the bill; that is another story.

This happens to me all the time . But if my date is the one who initiated the date, no problem, I just push the bill to their side.

 

My feeling is this: When I was single I didn't ask men out. (Well only once but that's irrelevant...) So men asked me out. I was raised that you invite someone somewhere THEY pay..even if it's a girlfriend of mine. I can remember asking this or that girlfriend out somewhere and I'd always pay (if she let me anyway.)

 

At the point in the relationship where I'm comfortable enough to start calling HIM without waiting for him to call me, that's when I would start to treat him and pay for our outings here and there.

 

Before that, during the "courting" period (when he was the only one doing the asking out), yes I offered to pay but yeah, I expected HIM to pay

You're very sensible and thoughtful, woman!

[Shygirl15]

I paid my ex's way for six years.....Everything....He didn't work once.....(yeah, i know i'm stupid....love does that) It's cool to pay your own way, but it's also nice to be treated.

Yeah, I agree with six years being too long. I wouldn't even have gone out with him on a single date. I have a way of detecting cheapness even before meeting these people face-to-face. For example, a while back I was talking to someone online then he gave me his cellphone number, but stressed out that I HAVE TO call him after 9pm when his free minutes kick in. He never received my call.

[Touche]

The problem with 'who asks, pays' is that men do 99% of the asking. If you accept an invitation it's because you want to be with that person, there's no obligation to say yes.

 

Right. And there's no obligation for you to ask anyone out either. But yeah, men DO ask mostly. So what? As I've said, in matters between men and women, we're NOT EQUAL!!!! Remember my giving birth point? We're not equal.

 

It's interesting that you say that if you invite a female friend out, you pay, but I don't think that's common. If a friend of mine asked me out for a drink I wouldn't expect them to pay for me.

 

Perhaps it's not common. But that was my practice. It was the way I was brought up. Chilvary isn't common either. Nor is good manners and good values. So what? Not sure about you, but I don't live my life according to what's "commonly" done or not.

 

And the principle I am talking about is that I don't buy women's time. I think it cheapens us both.

 

I understand that you feel that way. Everything is all in how you look at things I guess. I never thought of a man asking me out and paying for a night out as "buying me." I mean, as you said, I wanted to be with him as much as he wanted to spend time with me, or I wouldn't have accepted.

 

I just looked at it as a gentleman asking me out, and acting as a gentleman who knows how to be a man and how to treat a woman. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

I certainly never thought of it as "buying my time." Maybe a woman with less confidence and sense of their worth might thing that. But even I, when I had really low self-esteem in my 20's didn't even think that way!

 

Unfortunately, yes...And hindsight is effin 20/20....It wasn't worth all the arguments and frustration..I left his butt a year and a half ago, and he hasn't changed one bit. Funny thing..I ran into him this past weekend, and he tried chatting me up again...It felt so good to laugh and walk away without so much as a hello.

 

Guys, if there's anything that can break a rel, it's disappointment. Don't disappoint your women.

 

Good for you Wicked! You should be proud..live and learn, right?

 

This happens to me all the time . But if my date is the one who initiated the date, no problem, I just push the bill to their side.

 

Hahah! Love it!

 

You're very sensible and thoughtful, woman!

 

Thank you, Shygirl! How nice of you to say.

[Tomcat33]

But I live in trendy London and you live in the Deep South, so things are probably different.

 

 

My exboyfriend who grew up, worked and bought property in trendy London, plus I dated a couple other men from trendy London and guess what?

 

Things aren't all that different from "the deep south" or the North Pole for that matter, when it comes to dating and courting a woman. You may live in trendy London but you might consider moving to Bolton because it would appear you can't afford the lifestyle.

[The Collector]

a while back I was talking to someone online then he gave me his cellphone number, but stressed out that I HAVE TO call him after 9pm when his free minutes kick in.

 

Now THAT'S cheap!

[Touche]

Now THAT'S cheap!

 

I know. That one made me literally laugh out loud!

 

I mean, admittedly I've said this to remind family or others close to me, but never to someone I don't know well! Let alone someone I may be trying to impress....sheesh.

[Tomcat33]

And Lucky, the guy may have lots of faults, but putting a candy bar in with your groceries does not seem like the crime of the century. Even if I had a million bucks I could be forgiven for thinking that you wouldn't penny-pinch over a lousy bar of candy.

 

 

C'mon that wasn't the situation Lucky drove up to go to the movies paid for the movies and on top of that the guy asks her for money for snacks?

 

LOSER! The guys' a loser. Or he is simply not that intersted in impressing Lucky, mission accomplished! She did right in ditching him.

 

I understand that you feel that way. Everything is all in how you look at things I guess. I never thought of a man asking me out and paying for a night out as "buying me."

 

Exactly Touche I NEVER feel like he is "buying" me either. I don't feel any sort of debt with a man because he pays, I do feel the need to thank him and show my appreciation for the curtious gesture. But I can definitely say no when he wants to advance sexually and I am not ready for that.

 

Maybe some women like Sally4Sare who say that women who accepted are prostititues, feel they have to pay their own way so that they don't feel sexually endebted to a man? They must have some kind of problem with setting boundaries for themselves sexually speaking and hence they offer to pay and equate women who do accept to prostitutes.