Accepting faults

[trubella]

I'm tellin' ya... PMC. PMC.

 

i think she mentioned a few pages back that she brought up PMC to him and he wasnt interested. PMC to him means marriage and i'm pretty sure thats a word he wants to stay away from.

[Treasa]

It's so funny. I've been a very insecure, dependent person, and I've also been a very controlling, independent person. Yeah, real attractive, hey?

 

But it also means that I can see things from both sides. I have a lot of thoughts after reading all these posts. Mind you, these are all my thoughts, and I'm sure people will disagree with me.

 

LB, I think your boyfriend is controlling, and you being more emotional and dependent makes it easier for him, because you let it happen. I don't think he has a lot of respect for you, even if he does love you a lot.

 

You say your boyfriend knows you'd be gone if he didn't propose, but I don't think that's true. I think he doesn't propose and doesn't want to talk about it because he knows you aren't going anywhere. He has no reason to think you'll leave him, because you've as much as said that you wouldn't be able to cope very well if you lived on your own.

 

You also say that you don't think your relationship would survive if you moved out. That's a very, very bad sign. I don't live with my boyfriend. I see him a few times a week. Yet I'm extremely happy. We've been together for 4.5 years, and we're not married or engaged. However, neither of us is in a hurry to get engaged. We're so happy right now that there's no need. And we both really like having our own space. I trust him, he trusts me. Besides, I get emails and calls from him more or less all day except when one of us is doing something, so it's almost like we're together.

 

I remember there was a long period in our relationship where I felt insecure. He didn't give me any reason not to trust him, but I still felt nervous. At the time I thought I wanted him to propose to me, because I felt like then people would know he truly loved me, and it would be the penultimate sign of his love. But people get married all the time and have crappy relationships. Rather than worrying about getting married, I should have just looked at the relationship as it was and determined if I was happy. If I wasn't, then marriage wasn't going to fix anything.

 

It's a long story, but it basically boils down to the fact that I was clingy and jittery and always questioning his love for me. That in turn annoyed him, and made him less inclined to want to be with me. We actually broke up a few times.

 

Long story short, I realized I needed to love him and the relationship AS THEY WERE as fully as I could. I started to be sweeter to him, but I also reclaimed some of myself. I stopped questioning his love for me, and started assuming that he wouldn't be with me if he didn't love me. And realized that I'm pretty kickass.

 

As I became stronger, and yet sweeter, his behavior changed. I stopped nagging, whining, worrying, etc. He started being more romantic, attentive, etc.

 

But this is about you, not me. Who cares if all your friends are married? Marriage isn't a finish line! I have friends who are married who argue all the time and tell me they envy me my free time. Marriage isn't as much of an accomplishment as keeping a happy, healthy relationship is. My great aunt didn't get married until she was in her late 30's, and yet remained happily married until she died a couple of months ago in her 80's. She didn't see why she should get married just to prove herself to others.

 

I honestly think you should move out. Live on your own for a while, learn to depend on YOURSELF. Learn how to fix a flat, cook (if you want to be a SAHM, it's an important skill), and be able to comfort yourself. Let's say you DO get married to your boyfriend and, God forbid, he dies one day? What are you going to do then? Who are you going to depend on?

 

And stop worrying about what makes HIM happy. At least for now. At least until YOU'RE truly happy.

[Star Gazer]

Yeah, I said that after he told me I wasn't doing s*hit around the apartment and was lazy. So I said both.

 

So you said both.

 

Hmm. Sounds like a justification to me.

[Lauriebell82]

So you said both.

 

Hmm. Sounds like a justification to me.

 

Yeah, neither was a nice comment I know. And it probably hurt him also to hear those things. I feel bad that I said them, and apologized like he apologized to me for the hurtful thing he said. Not that it makes that any better, but we did say hurtful things during the fight.

[BareGoddess]

Yeah, I said that after he told me I wasn't doing s*hit around the apartment and was lazy. So I said both.

 

Him: LB, you're not doing shyt around the apt. You're lazy. Is this the way you'll be if we get married?

 

LB: Eff this. Screw you.

 

Nope, not ready for marriage.

 

It should have gone like this:

 

Him: LB, can we sit down and talk about how we can divide household chores. I'm not happy with the way the apt has been looking lately.

 

LB: Sure, honey. What can I do to make it better? Maybe we should draw up a schedule and a plan so we can nip this in the bud once and for all and not keep having the same old argument about this.

[Treasa]

Him: LB, you're not doing shyt around the apt. You're lazy. Is this the way you'll be if we get married?

 

LB: Eff this. Screw you.

 

Nope, not ready for marriage.

 

It should have gone like this:

 

Him: LB, can we sit down and talk about how we can divide household chores. I'm not happy with the way the apt has been looking lately.

 

LB: Sure, honey. What can I do to make it better? Maybe we should draw up a schedule and a plan so we can nip this in the bud once and for all and not keep having the same old argument about this.

 

I'd say it's a great idea, except I don't think LB's boyfriend is like that.

I think it should go something like this:

 

Him: The apartment is messy. I hate the way you clean. Blah blah blah.

Her: Ok, let's talk about how we'd like things to look. What is one thing you don't want to compromise on? I'll tell you one thing I don't want to compromise on (in my example, I hate doing dishes, and my boyfriend hates cleaning the bathroom, so we worked it out).

 

Later, when LB is calm:

 

Her: Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop telling me how to drive. Either you can drive, or you can appreciate relaxing. But if you make me nervous by criticizing the way I drive, I'll have to pull over so you can take over.

[BareGoddess]

Treasa, it's not just LB's b/f though. As we've seen, LB's responses are not what they should be either. They're both at fault.

 

They don't have the right dynamics nor the right communication skills to make this succeed in my opinion.

[Star Gazer]

we did say hurtful things during the fight.

 

Be honest. How many times have you cursed at each other during the length of your relationship?

 

Him: LB, you're not doing shyt around the apt. You're lazy. Is this the way you'll be if we get married?

 

LB: Eff this. Screw you.

 

Nope, not ready for marriage.

 

Ya think??

 

It should have gone like this:

 

Him: LB, can we sit down and talk about how we can divide household chores. I'm not happy with the way the apt has been looking lately.

 

LB: Sure, honey. What can I do to make it better? Maybe we should draw up a schedule and a plan so we can nip this in the bud once and for all and not keep having the same old argument about this.

 

Okay, that's picture perfect, but we know that ain't reality.

 

It could have easily gone like this though:

 

BF: "OMG LB, I seriously cannot deal with how messy this place is, I'm going nuts!!!"

 

LB: "I'm sorry you're uncomfortable, but this is just how I am and how I am used to doing things. Do you have any suggestions on how to make it better? I want it to work for both of us."

[Treasa]

Treasa, it's not just LB's b/f though. As we've seen, LB's responses are not what they should be either. They're both at fault.

 

They don't have the right dynamics nor the right communication skills to make this succeed in my opinion.

 

Oh, I TOTALLY agree with you. But I don't see her working on her own flaws while she's living with him.

 

I have my own thoughts about LB, but I don't want her to abandon this thread if she feels attacked.

[BareGoddess]

Ok, I went back and read my version and even I laughed. Yeah, uhm, even my H and I aren't that civil! But I was just trying to show LB one extreme to another. But yeah, your version was probably more of a "real world" example.

[Star Gazer]

Oh, I TOTALLY agree with you. But I don't see her working on her own flaws while she's living with him.

 

I have my own thoughts about LB, but I don't want her to abandon this thread if she feels attacked.

 

We probably have the same thoughts.

[Treasa]

We probably have the same thoughts.

 

Oh, I know for sure we do.

[Star Gazer]

Oh, I know for sure we do.

 

And I don't mean that in a bad way. I know she's got plenty of wonderful qualities as well. LB often confuses me with attacking her, when I'm really just trying to get her to open her eyes so she can FIX things.

[Lauriebell82]

BF: You don't do shyt around the apartment. You will be a terrible wife!

 

LB: Aww, I'm sorry you feel that way sweetheart. Let's put together a schedule and compromise. That way we won't fight over chores. Does that sound good?

 

 

My first instinct wasn't to be sweet and nice to him. You all said you would have been very pissed as well. Reasoning with him was not what popped into my head!

[BareGoddess]

Maybe you're right. But LB, telling him to screw himself shouldn't have been the first thing to pop in your mind either.

 

This kind of thing can take practice and self-control but it's important. Because if you get in the habit of dealing with each other as you have, it really gets worse and degrades the relationship.

 

What you said here was much, much better and the fight wouldn't have escalated.

[MindoverMatter]

The thing is, that your boyfriend would probably say the same thing when asked why he used the b-word. His first instinct was anger, not moderation.

 

But, as you know yourself, that still doesn't take the hurt away. You will both have to find a way to deal with it. Maybe have a special time, where problems are discussed, but only then. Like, say, make monday evening review time. What happened in the last week that made you really happy, what made you uncomfortable. For the rest of the week, you just deal with it yourself and bring it up on monday.

 

This could look like this:

 

BF: "LB, I cleared the dishwasher every single day of the week and I also had to put away stuff you dropped on the floor. This makes me uncomfortable and it is also unbalanced. Could you please try to be more attentive to those things?

 

LB: "I can't change who I am at heart, but I'll try and see how far I can go to meet you in the middle in this issue"

 

Then try to focus on it for a week and review it together.

[Lauriebell82]

Maybe you're right. But LB, telling him to screw himself shouldn't have been the first thing to pop in your mind either.

 

This kind of thing can take practice and self-control but it's important. Because if you get in the habit of dealing with each other as you have, it really gets worse and degrades the relationship.

 

What you said here was much, much better and the fight wouldn't have escalated.

 

We don't usually fight like that. That's why it was so upsetting. He hit me with a very low blow and it hurt so much that I didn't feel like being sweet to him. Do you really think you could talk rationally to a guy who said something like that to you? I think it was SG who said that after a comment like that she would have said she was moving out in 4 months.

[BareGoddess]

I know. And I'm with her on that BUT the difference is you don't want to end it over something like this. So you have to keep your particular wants/needs in mind and lashing out doesn't help you towards what you want. Am I making sense?

[Kamille]

 

My first instinct wasn't to be sweet and nice to him. You all said you would have been very pissed as well. Reasoning with him was not what popped into my head!

 

I wasn't your first instinct because you were reacting out of fear. If you take marriage off the table, your reactions will change, as NJ has explained so well.

 

Compromise is much easier when you don't feel you've got a not-so-hidden agenda.

[Star Gazer]

We don't usually fight like that. That's why it was so upsetting. He hit me with a very low blow and it hurt so much that I didn't feel like being sweet to him. Do you really think you could talk rationally to a guy who said something like that to you? I think it was SG who said that after a comment like that she would have said she was moving out in 4 months.

 

Putting your foot down over mistreatment is quite different than telling him to screw himself.

 

In telling him I'd be moving out in 4 months, I would have made it clear that one of the reasons why was the manner in which he spoke to me. But I'd have no ground to put my foot down if I was squally guilty, now would I?

[Star Gazer]

I wasn't your first instinct because you were reacting out of fear.

 

I don't think so at all. I think she was reacting that way because she's still immature (in relationships) and doesn't know how to communicate effectively.

 

And I know she'll flip out at me for saying that, which will only prove my point.

[Lauriebell82]

I don't think so at all. I think she was reacting that way because she's still immature (in relationships) and doesn't know how to communicate effectively.

 

And I know she'll flip out at me for saying that, which will only prove my point.

 

Nah, I actually think I've matured a lot. Everyone acts immature sometimes (even in relationships), even those who do think they are completely mature. Mature adults say stuff they don't mean all the time out of anger.

 

It's probably more like insecurity that made me react that way. I'm insecure about him wanting to marry me, so when he said I'd make a terrible wife I got upset.

 

This issue isn't really worth arguing over, none of you were there only I was. So telling me how our fight went-or didn't go-doesn't help the situation.

[Lishy]

If my boyfriend said that to me I would not have been as polite as LB!!!

 

LB, I won't lie to you, this does not look good. I think you will be opening your eyes to how things really are soon, I can feel a change already it what you are saying.

 

It is all fair and fine saying how he should have approached this issue with "darling we need to talk" come on!!! When we get annoyed over something we snap at times, we are only human not the bleeding Brady Bunch!!!!

 

He is immature and LB is dependant on him, he knows this and he gets away with murder time after time just by knowing what to say to get her to forgive him, he knows she will do this because of how dependant she is on him.

 

LB will realise how things really are and hopefully realise that by becoming completely independant herself for the first time is her top priority and the way to find out her truth!

[Star Gazer]

it's probably more like insecurity that made me react that way. I'm insecure about him wanting to marry me, so when he said I'd make a terrible wife I got upset.

 

Hmph. In my mind, insecurity mixed with a desire to please him such that he'd marry me would have resulted in something more along the lines of, "You're right, I can't clean, please don't get upset, help me figure out to please you..." (in a doormat-like way though), not "Go screw yourself!!!"

 

I mean, when you WANT to STAY with someone and you want them to LOVE you, I just don't think that's the natural instinct to pack and bag and tell them to eff off.

 

But we're different, obviously.

 

This issue isn't really worth arguing over, none of you were there only I was. So telling me how our fight went-or didn't go-doesn't help the situation.

 

Here you go. This is how you react when someone points out your flaws. It's almost predictable, LB. "You weren't there, so you don't know." C'mon.

 

Granted, we only know what you tell us. And dor 140+ posts, everyone thought you were innocent in this fight. But then the truth came out that you helped contribute to it. I don't think you even realized up until that point the role YOU played until you revealed all the details and were honest with yourself. You were too focused on his behavior.

 

We're only trying to help you.

 

That said, is there any doubt that your fight didn't go well? Is there any doubt that you could have handled it MUCH better? Is there any doubt that you can LEARN from your fight and LEARN how to handle disagreements better in the future? That's the "help" in this "situation."

[Lishy]

I think she needs to stand up to him even more then she does and stop letting him wipe his feet on her when it suits him!

 

They are young and immature, of course they will fire at each other and not have sensible, sit down discussions or arrange a Friday night at 7pm talk each week to air any differences, they are young for goodness sake!

 

LB reacted as she did because he hit on her anchilles heel and he knew what he was doing so it makes it very spiteful, he hurt her, she hurt him back, it is human nature!

 

My advice remains the same, indepence and forgetting marriage for now!