DON'T want to beat him into submission!

[Cupcake]

I met this guy at a party two weeks ago, and we really hit it off. I had seen him around at other parties before but he's not my normal type so I never made an effort to approach him. Well we (literally) bumped into each other and started chatting, and basically never left each other's sides for the rest of the night. He has an amazing personality and we have so much in common. We shared a brief kiss at the end of the night, and he got my number.

 

I didn't hear anything for a week, then he called me at 1am on Friday night/Sat morning, asking if I was out and whether I wanted to meet up with him. I ignored the call because even though I WAS out and DID want to meet up with him, I'm not going to be at his beck and call. I was also dissapointed that he treated me with such disrespect, considering we shared such a connection at the party. Well, he left me a message apologising the next day, and we exchanged casual text messages throughout the day, but he didn't ask me out or even allude to a possible future meeting.

 

I know that he likes me and that there is a mutual sexual attraction. I want him to ASK ME OUT but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen. He is kinda shy and apart from that, is in the middle of moving houses at the moment so I know he's not entirely settled in his personal life. I'm sure if things get left for another week he might just think, 'ah, can't be bothered.' But I don't want to just ignore the possibility of beginning something with him because I have not met a guy with so much potential for years. I refuse to start chasing him though, because I've done it before and lose all self respect. Where's the middle ground? How can I open up the doors for him to take that first step, without giving away the game??

[powerstorm]

Why is it that you are waiting for him to make the first move. You say he is shy, he might not know what to do next and what is the right way.

 

I am shy and when I was dating I could get a number and be too shy to even phone. My friends get lots of numbers, but does that mean she is really interested in you.

 

He took the chance and called and you ignored the call, If I was him I would possibly think you did not want to talk to me and would be hesitant to call again.

 

If you really liked him and want something to happen, why not take the initiative.

 

Whats the worst that can happen, you tried

 

"Good luck"

[moimeme]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this 2003? How and why is it 'equal' for men to have to be the ones to overcome their shyness and fear of rejection to ask women out when women share exactly the same emotions?

[clia]

He took the chance and called and you ignored the call, If I was him I would possibly think you did not want to talk to me and would be hesitant to call again.

 

Did you miss the part where he called her at ONE A.M.?

 

I don't blame you for not answering that call. It's kind of rude to call someone you barely know at one a.m. Of course, maybe it was the liquid courage that spurred it!

 

I refuse to start chasing him though, because I've done it before and lose all self respect. Where's the middle ground? How can I open up the doors for him to take that first step, without giving away the game??

 

I'm with you--I don't like chasing guys either. However, if you indeed feel that you have gotten positive signals from him, I think a nice middle ground would be one phone call, to reassure him that the door is open. Don't ask him out or anything during the call, just give him a call, see how he's doing, etc. If he still can't figure it out, you might have to reconsider whether this is the kind of guy you really want. It sounds like you want a guy who pursues. (I personally think all guys are capable of pursuing, even the shy ones, if they are *really* interested, but some people don't agree with me.)

[powerstorm]

Yes we all feel the same emotions but deal with them differently

[MercyRose]

'm with you--I don't like chasing guys either.

 

Clia, lets say a guy pursues you in the beginning and you are a girl who likes being pursued and you are in a relationship eventually, when should the pursuing stop and what effort should you be making in the relationship, i.e calling, initiating ouings etc.

 

How does a woman who likes being pursued handle the relationship? What should she expect from the guy? and what should she be doing?

[clia]

Clia, lets say a guy pursues you in the beginning and you are a girl who likes being pursued and you are in a relationship eventually, when should the pursuing stop and what effort should you be making in the relationship, i.e calling, initiating ouings etc.

 

It ultimately depends on what works best for you and your relationship. There’s no formula.

 

There are many extremes here. Women who hardcore follow The Rules, would say that the "pursuit" never really stops, and that the men should still be doing the vast majority of the calling, initiating, outings, etc., even after you are settled in a relationship. They even say that you should be multiple dating until you are engaged. I think this is slightly crazy, but this does work for some women. One of the many problems with The Rules, though, is that they mainly discuss the beginning of the relationship, and there is no real guidance for how to act during exclusivity, engagement, etc. Things obviously change with time. You can’t be how you are in the beginning of the relationship forever. But this extreme *does* work for some people. Some men love that challenge and love to be with a woman who constantly gives them that challenge, and don’t expect much more from their girlfriend other than that she shows up and looks pretty. Other men eventually want more of a fifty/fifty scenario, or 70/30, or 60/40.

 

Now, as for what I think...I'm going to arc into some mass generalizations here. I tend to agree with The Rules in that I think the guy should always do more calling and initiating than the woman, even in settled relationships. Why? Past experience. I’ve tried it both ways. I think men do pursue women who they are interested in. Some men do it of their own free will; other men may need a bit of encouragement. But I’ve found that the men who have really loved me in the past called me a lot and wanted to see me all the time. They didn’t get lazy when the relationship got comfortable. The men who were less interested did not do these things. I’ve spent far too much time being googly over guys who really weren’t all that interested. And when they aren’t interested, they don’t pursue. They don’t initiate. I carry the relationship until it dies a slow death because of the idea in my head that they really must care or else they wouldn’t be with me. I think the man should lead the relationship, and the woman should put on the brakes. By following this attitude, I’ve ended up with the guys who really care and really love me, and not wasted time stressing over the ones who are merely lukewarm.

 

How does a woman who likes being pursued handle the relationship?

 

She’s a challenge. She doesn’t settle for lukewarm actions. She doesn’t settle for crumbs. She’s confident in herself and in her ability to find another man if this one can’t meet her standards. She’s busy with her own life, so the guy learns pretty quickly that he has to make plans with her in advance to be with her. (Although spontaneous dates are fine, too…just not all the time.) See below for more…

 

What should she expect from the guy?

 

There are lots of ways to answer this one. It depends on the guy. Some guys aren’t big phone people, so they won’t call every day. But they will make definitive plans to see her, and often. The plans don’t include hanging out with a Blockbuster movie every night. He takes her out for walks, or to restaurants, or to concerts, or to whatever he can afford. Sometimes he even buys her little presents… He compliments her. He does not send her confusing messages about his feelings. His message is clear and consistent: I want to be with you. He does not get too lazy and comfortable and stop doing all the nice little things he used to do before they got serious (when he was trying to “win” her heart). He is aware that she is the prize...and if he doesn't stay on his toes there is another guy waiting in line who will...

 

and what should she be doing?

 

Re: calling: Of course she can call sometimes, but not four times a day. It’s fine to return phone calls, to occasionally lob an “I love you” or “I miss you” kind of phone call. When you are calling, you are pursuing. Know that feeling when you call a guy and end up getting that horrible feeling in the pit of your stomach when you hang up because your timing was bad or he was distracted? I hate that feeling, so I avoid it by not showering him with phone calls. (Added bonus is that they get all excited when you do call!) I don’t think most men like to talk, talk, talk on the phone about every little detail and analyze every little thing about the relationship. When you want to have these talks, call a girlfriend or your mom or your sister. You don’t need to call him at work to tell him about the rude girl behind the counter at Starbucks. Etc…

 

Re: initiating: When you’ve been together for awhile, it’s fine to initiate things. But you shouldn’t always be the one initiating everything. Trust your gut on this, and listen to what it’s telling you.

 

Re: attitude:: We all know how unattractive needy and clingy are. If you suggest going to dinner with your best friend and her husband and your guy doesn’t want to go, go by yourself. There is no need to be attached at the hip. Choose your battles wisely. (No need to fight about minutia.) Don’t nag him about things that are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Learn how to say “No.” Learn how to thank him and compliment him when he does nice things for you (some women never do this!). Make sure he knows you appreciate him (you don’t need to call him 100 times a day so he knows this). Don’t get upset when he wants to go out with his friends; go out with yours that night. Learn that men and women are different, and the things that you might like he might not necessarily go for. Don’t have big relationship talks. If you have something to say about the relationship, where it is headed, etc., keep it short and to the point.

 

Whew…hope that answers your question. !!

[MercyRose]

I do find a lack of information about relationships during the exclusivity stage.

 

I think basically a woman needs to be an empowered woman, have standards, a full life and also share her love and life with a man who respects her, loves her and want to be with her without him or her being clingy or needy. He should be happy to see her grow as a person within the relationship, not stifle her or resent her for it.

 

But I find different men have different views on what is clingy or needy.

 

Hence your ratios of 50/50, 60/40 and 70/30 making some sense to me now.

 

I suppose its better to find a man who fits the ratio of your personality...

 

I think I am a 70/30 but the best compromise I could make was to stretch it to a 60/40.

 

I don't think a person should or even can change their personality to make it fit with someone else's expectations.

 

You can improve your weaknesses but you cannot change your essence.

 

Thanx for answering my questions. It cleared up alot of things I wasn't sure about.

[clia]

I suppose its better to find a man who fits the ratio of your personality...

 

I don't think a person should or even can change their personality to make it fit with someone else's expectations.

 

I totally agree with these statements. In my view, relationships should not be stressful. When you are with someone who fits the ratio of what you want/need, you aren't going to be stressed out. You aren't going to be bickering and fighting over things. You aren't going to be insecure or afraid of losing the person. You aren't going to be figuring out ways to change them.

 

Sometimes I really don't understand at all the logic (or lack thereof) that I see in some relationships. Some things are pretty clear to me...

 

-- If you want to date a guy who plans dates and brings flowers, date those kinds of guys. Don't date a guy who doesn't do those things and then complain to him and try to change him.

 

-- If you want to date a guy who doesn't want to watch football all weekend, go find one of those. Don't date a guy who loves football and then complain to him and try to change him.

 

-- If you want/need lots of attention and reassurance from a guy, don't date a guy who likes his alone time and likes to go out with his friends all the time and is a workaholic.

 

Etc...

 

I think I'm probably a 70/30 as well...and you're right, neediness/clinginess varies by the person, too. I have friends who are in mutually clingy relationships, relationships that I could never in a million years be in. Some guys have a much higher tolerance for clinginess. Others have a much lower tolerance. That's actually another reason why it's "safer" to let the guy pursue in the beginning and to remain cool about things. As you get to know him, you can see what his ratio is. And maybe he's too clingy for you! LOL. In which case you move on.

 

Ultimately, it's all about compatibility.

[jenny]

clia - beautifully articulated and argued. wow. i officially stand down on the rules as a useful tool.

[Cupcake]

All of these posts have been extremely helpful, especially yours, Clia. Most of my friends are majorly clingy and see me as a bit of a cold fish when it comes to dating, but I've tried the whole wearing my heart on my sleeve thing and it just never works out. I don't think I'm being unreasonable waiting for him to get his act together, and Clia, you have made me realise that if he never calls, well it wasn't a big loss anyway.

 

I don't go on many dates; I definately choose my men carefully. But most of my friends are on dates every second night. I was starting to feel depressed about this when I realised that the guys they were seeing were not worthy of them. They were going out for the sake of it, and eventually end up in relationships just because no one better is around at the time. Why are there so many girls out there who prefer quantity over quality?

[moimeme]

I don't think changing oneself is necessarily a bad thing; particularly when change involves growth. OTOH, some women give up a huge amount to be with their men - to the point they become diminished. There was a terrific line I once read in a book (and I don't have the reference handy, unfortunately):

 

'She had to shrink herself to fit into his small life'.

 

That is the sort of thing one ought not do.

[clia]

you have made me realise that if he never calls, well it wasn't a big loss anyway.

 

Nope, it sure isn't. There is always another man around the corner. There are many fish in the sea. And all those other cliches...

 

I don't go on many dates; I definately choose my men carefully.

 

Hear, hear, sister!

 

But most of my friends are on dates every second night.

 

I used to do this, for the same reasons your friends did. Then I realized that I was just going out with guys to be going out with guys, even when I knew I had NO interest in anything serious. And I realized I'd rather be sitting home alone watching a movie or reading a book. I still go on a lot of first dates, and sometimes second dates. Usually that's all it takes for me to size up a guy's character and judge whether or not he's the kind of guy I want to keep dating.

 

They were going out for the sake of it, and eventually end up in relationships just because no one better is around at the time.

 

I think this is how a lot of relationships end up happening! It must be, because if not, why does it seem like so many people are complaining and bitching about how unhappy they are? They clearly didn't go through the proper weeding process from the outset. I prefer to save myself the hurt and pain of the break up early on, and only "pursue" relationships with the kind of guys who meet my ratio criteria.

 

Why are there so many girls out there who prefer quantity over quality?

 

Because they need the quantity to feel good about themselves. Me, I'm perfectly happy being single, so I don't need the quantity and prefer the quality.

[abs123]

I absolutely hate it when women really want to go out with a guy and put so much effort into trying to get HIM to ask HER out. Why don't they do some of the work. The type of woman that is completely passive in a relationship and expects the man to do all of the work is not preffered by any man, she is merely tolerated by him.

 

Another thing I hate is when this type of passive woman goes after a passive man. She expects him to make all the moves even though his personality makes this very difficult. And then she even feels resentful when he is only willing put put as much effort into the relationship as she is.

 

I personally am a 50/50 type man and I think a woman who wants more than that is too demanding and not worth my effort.