Any women left who take their vows seriously???

[learner911]

Why do all the waywards do a 180? I know I'm asking a rational question about irrational behavior, but I just wonder why they change so much? Why also is it that many times they become unreliable and irresponsible? Is it part of the whole 'self centered' attitude'?

 

At the moment I'm reading a book 'why men dont listen and woman dont read maps' and if I understand what they're saying correctly then the following could make some sense. They go out of the point of view that woman and men differ vastly and this is why the divorce rate is 50% today.

 

Men isn't wired to be an emotional being like a woman as his role is the provider/protector of the family - but in modern times a man is out of a job and his natural instincts is not to be an emotional being resulting in the woman not feeling valued. Woman used to feel valued due to the man providing and protecting the family unit.

 

Men that are emotional beings are usually gay. A man's natural emotional IQ is inferior to that of a woman and he does not pick up on all the hints, cues, etc. For him it's either black or white - logical.

 

Maybe all the mystery, excitement and sparks are gone and the relationship becomes boring to them. I think a lot of woman associate this with sex and if the sparks aint there they go look for it elsewhere and have an affair. (to feel excitement, sparks, butterflies, etc.) Personally I think marriage is a commitment instead of bells and whissltles going off all the time like in Holywood movies.

 

The more they obsess about little excitement, no mystery, boredom, etc. the more faults they find and become critical of anything becoming more negative as time goes by - placing the blame on the partner. The man on the other hand is not paying attention to where the woman is and don't really understand what's going on with her. (not picking up on all the hints, etc.) His not listening as emotional things are not that important to a man but he forgets his partner's world where everything is about feelings, etc.

[BusterBrown]

very interesting post learner 911. what you said makes a lot of sense. my stbxw made more money than I(when she wasn't in school) and had job security.

[Mountains10]

At the moment I'm reading a book 'why men dont listen and woman dont read maps' and if I understand what they're saying correctly then the following could make some sense. They go out of the point of view that woman and men differ vastly and this is why the divorce rate is 50% today.

 

Men isn't wired to be an emotional being like a woman as his role is the provider/protector of the family - but in modern times a man is out of a job and his natural instincts is not to be an emotional being resulting in the woman not feeling valued. Woman used to feel valued due to the man providing and protecting the family unit.

 

Men that are emotional beings are usually gay. A man's natural emotional IQ is inferior to that of a woman and he does not pick up on all the hints, cues, etc. For him it's either black or white - logical.

 

Maybe all the mystery, excitement and sparks are gone and the relationship becomes boring to them. I think a lot of woman associate this with sex and if the sparks aint there they go look for it elsewhere and have an affair. (to feel excitement, sparks, butterflies, etc.) Personally I think marriage is a commitment instead of bells and whissltles going off all the time like in Holywood movies.

 

The more they obsess about little excitement, no mystery, boredom, etc. the more faults they find and become critical of anything becoming more negative as time goes by - placing the blame on the partner. The man on the other hand is not paying attention to where the woman is and don't really understand what's going on with her. (not picking up on all the hints, etc.) His not listening as emotional things are not that important to a man but he forgets his partner's world where everything is about feelings, etc.

 

That's very insightful learner, I appreciate you explaining that.

[peteyj]

I think what lonelygurl did is fine.. It might suck but sometimes two people just aren't working out and no matter what was tried, maybe they just aren't meant to be together anymore..People do change as they get older, have kids, and so on...Sometimes people drift apart or they married too young, stuck around for the kids, and then once the kids are grown discover things they never really liked about one another... Or some people need way too much attention while others need to work a lot to pay for things.... Yeah it's better to try and make things work but sometimes things don't work. It's like anything in life... Most people don't stay at one job for life anymore. Sometimes there is a right time to move on no matter how hard it is or hurts.

 

While it still sucks and hurts.....there is a far difference between trying to work things out, not feeling like they are, then ending it compared to pretending things are ok and then cheating.

 

If my wife would have just ended our marriage a long time ago....It would be far more acceptable than what she did....At least there would be a valid reason behind things then.. Whereas when somebody just up and has an affair...it just sounds like excuses to make themselves feel better for what they did. And cheating just makes you wonder if they cheated before and you never knew and for how long did they feel this way.... It really sucks when you are the one supporting them 100 percent and they do this to you....

 

To me...be open and honest from the get go is key. If things aren't working and the other person doesn't want to work at it...then hey maybe it's just not meant to be...But if both are willing to work at it....who knows. Too many people just use those excuses after they cheated though and that's just wrong and lame.

[Gunny376]

At the moment I'm reading a book 'why men dont listen and woman dont read maps' and if I understand what they're saying correctly then the following could make some sense. They go out of the point of view that woman and men differ vastly and this is why the divorce rate is 50% today.

 

Men isn't wired to be an emotional being like a woman as his role is the provider/protector of the family - but in modern times a man is out of a job and his natural instincts is not to be an emotional being resulting in the woman not feeling valued. Woman used to feel valued due to the man providing and protecting the family unit.

 

Men that are emotional beings are usually gay. A man's natural emotional IQ is inferior to that of a woman and he does not pick up on all the hints, cues, etc. For him it's either black or white - logical.

 

Maybe all the mystery, excitement and sparks are gone and the relationship becomes boring to them. I think a lot of woman associate this with sex and if the sparks aint there they go look for it elsewhere and have an affair. (to feel excitement, sparks, butterflies, etc.) Personally I think marriage is a commitment instead of bells and whissltles going off all the time like in Holywood movies.

 

The more they obsess about little excitement, no mystery, boredom, etc. the more faults they find and become critical of anything becoming more negative as time goes by - placing the blame on the partner. The man on the other hand is not paying attention to where the woman is and don't really understand what's going on with her. (not picking up on all the hints, etc.) His not listening as emotional things are not that important to a man but he forgets his partner's world where everything is about feelings, etc.

 

This plays very strongly in my reading and studies about men, women, relationships, marriage.

 

I'm currently an under-study of the PUA community ~ in that I never plan on getting maried again, and so I've come to the realization that I've got to learn how to become very adapt at "Meeting & Greeting, qualifying, presenting and benefiting, over-coming objections, and closing"

 

From that? What you've posted is very true from my reading and studies. Not that I plan on using these skills to "use and abuse" women or others. And they are very much "learned" skills and "learnable" but I seriously have no motivation, want, need, desire, nor inclination to get married again.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that I have more to lose by getting married again, than I have to gain? I know how to clean, scrub a toliet, do laundry, iron clothes, ~ even cook from recipies.

 

I have more to offer (and lose) from most women than they, have to offer me!

 

I've worked as a cook in the Marine Corps Club Systen (Second job when I was married), and learned how to cook from my Grandmothers and pulling mess duty my first four years in the Corps, (Every Marine is required to pull 30 days mess/guard duty their first four years in the Corps up to rank of Sergeant/E-5) Better helping the cooks out than washing pots and pans in the pot room or scullery!

 

The truth of the matter is? There's a lot of women that are full of themselves!

 

You guys just need to wake up to the fact, that some women think they were born with everything they needed to get through life with between their thighs.

 

Thing is? Life doesn't work that way. I paid up-front for where and what I have. Always have!

 

You can pay me now, or your Happy-a@@ can pay me later!

 

The question shouldn't be, "What have I've got to offer you?" but what HAVE you got to offer me!

 

There's but four things a woman has to offer most men!

 

Sex

Children

Compaionship

Domestic Skills

 

None of which any other woman doesn't have to offer!

 

Be part of the solution to the problems, or part of the answers ~ or?

 

BE GONE! :mad:

[Ania40]

Answering your original post....

 

I won't say I gave much importance to "vows" (IMO, only words reflecting my feelings at the time and not a locked up clause for life). I took my committment to my H seriously for 12 years until I realised we were, in fact, strangers. Two people that had grown apart over the years with only kids, family, friends and financial issues in common. Not his fault, not my own.

 

I told him but he didn't hear it. To this day, he still doesn't understand and we've been divorced several years.

 

Red flags to look for? none. Be honest with yourself, what you want....and good luck. Feelings and emotions are as much subjective to change as physical appearance is.

[BusterBrown]

Answering your original post....

 

I won't say I gave much importance to "vows" (IMO, only words reflecting my feelings at the time and not a locked up clause for life). I took my committment to my H seriously for 12 years until I realised we were, in fact, strangers. Two people that had grown apart over the years with only kids, family, friends and financial issues in common. Not his fault, not my own.

 

I told him but he didn't hear it. To this day, he still doesn't understand and we've been divorced several years.

 

Red flags to look for? none. Be honest with yourself, what you want....and good luck. Feelings and emotions are as much subjective to change as physical appearance is.

 

 

Ania, no offense to you. Really. I'm sure you are a good person. But this is exactly what I am talking about.

[sumdude]

All I know is that everything I thought I had learned from my parents and their generation about relationships doesn't seem to apply in the world I find myself in.

 

Statistics imply that children from divorced parents are more likely to be divorced. So there's a bit of a growing trend there on top of the big social changes to gender status in the last half century.

[learner911]

A lot of people are going to disagree with me on this but now that my divorce is getting final I came to the realization that marriage is a lot like life. There will defintely be differences, problems, surprizes, etc. I just came from visiting friends and had a long conversation with a woman that has been married for 40 years and something that I found fascinating about her is that she understood this kind of thing and told me that she and her husband had many difficulties but in overcoming each one their marriage got stronger.

 

Biologically and even emotionally I think we are not made to spend our life with only one person. Maybe if people realized this then people would stay together for life as they would know or find out how to solve their problems and throw the negativity and helpless attitude out the window. At the end of the day they may realize to get to their happy place they need to understand their partner and what motivates him or her for the relationship. I think men and woman in relationships are predictable - even my looking at the general trend in this forum and the similarities on how things happen. Same old story over and over.

 

I don't think that a relationship is something mystical - it can be understood and how it's mechanics work. Just a pity I didn't have any motivation to find out how this works when I was still married - If I knew what I know now I may still have been married. Been doing a massive amount of reading lately to try and understand why I'm in this kind of situation. Helps putting things in perspective and why things turned out the way they did.

[Mountains10]

A lot of people are going to disagree with me on this but now that my divorce is getting final I came to the realization that marriage is a lot like life. There will defintely be differences, problems, surprizes, etc. I just came from visiting friends and had a long conversation with a woman that has been married for 40 years and something that I found fascinating about her is that she understood this kind of thing and told me that she and her husband had many difficulties but in overcoming each one their marriage got stronger.

 

Biologically and even emotionally I think we are not made to spend our life with only one person. Maybe if people realized this then people would stay together for life as they would know or find out how to solve their problems and throw the negativity and helpless attitude out the window. At the end of the day they may realize to get to their happy place they need to understand their partner and what motivates him or her for the relationship. I think men and woman in relationships are predictable - even my looking at the general trend in this forum and the similarities on how things happen. Same old story over and over.

 

I don't think that a relationship is something mystical - it can be understood and how it's mechanics work. Just a pity I didn't have any motivation to find out how this works when I was still married - If I knew what I know now I may still have been married. Been doing a massive amount of reading lately to try and understand why I'm in this kind of situation. Helps putting things in perspective and why things turned out the way they did.

 

You and me both learner. I wished I had read more on the subject of relationships when I was married. I guess, a lot of us never thought we needed to work on a relationship, when it seems all is well. I spend a LOT of time reading now about relationships, infidelity, and the such. I now find it fascinating. I do more reading on the internet, than books, but still there's a lot of good information out there.

 

I've also learned to do a lot more listening, than talking. I think in the past, I listened, but talked before I really listened to what my wife said. I am trying to be prepared for the next relationship I get into before I get into it one day.

[Sands_of_time]

Answering your original post....

 

I won't say I gave much importance to "vows" (IMO, only words reflecting my feelings at the time and not a locked up clause for life). I took my committment to my H seriously for 12 years until I realised we were, in fact, strangers. Two people that had grown apart over the years with only kids, family, friends and financial issues in common. Not his fault, not my own.

 

I told him but he didn't hear it. To this day, he still doesn't understand and we've been divorced several years.

 

Red flags to look for? none. Be honest with yourself, what you want....and good luck. Feelings and emotions are as much subjective to change as physical appearance is.

 

This is the craziest post I've seen in 3 months. Are you sure you aren't my STBXW?

[Navin_R_Johnson]

Answering your original post....

 

I won't say I gave much importance to "vows" (IMO, only words reflecting my feelings at the time and not a locked up clause for life). I took my committment to my H seriously for 12 years until I realised we were, in fact, strangers. Two people that had grown apart over the years with only kids, family, friends and financial issues in common. Not his fault, not my own.

 

I told him but he didn't hear it. To this day, he still doesn't understand and we've been divorced several years.

 

Red flags to look for? none. Be honest with yourself, what you want....and good luck. Feelings and emotions are as much subjective to change as physical appearance is.

 

This is epic.

[peteyj]

This is how I feel now...When I start dating again I'm going to want somebody who either makes just as much money as me or close to it and they have goals and aspirations and ambition. I know what I'm bringing to the table and I sure don't need a leach or somebody who has no real goals in life. Maybe I'm an a-hole for thinking this way but I spoke to some coffee girl/barista the other day walking back from lunch downtown....After she told me she just works there and doesn't go to school and that's that and she was like 24 or 25 years old.....that was a big negative to me...

 

Females want guys with a good job, looks, money, blah blah blah...Well I'm a guy who wants a girl with a good job, is attractive and stays in shape(cause I"m a health nut), has some money, has goals, etc etc etc.. And age has nothing to do with it.... My great uncle had a goal to write a book at 80 years old...He went out and did it but that's a goal he decided to partake on...

 

And she actually has to be attempting to achieve those goals....not some pipe dream fantasy that never really exists. My soon to be ex-wife wanted to go to medical school but after quitting community college she really never went back and a few years later she still hasn't finished her two years of college and is now waiting until next year to maybe go back....Hey maybe one day she will complete her goals and dreams but in the future I'd rather date somebody who isn't a leach and who actually completes some goals instead of just talking about them..

 

Off my soap box for now but that's how I feel.

[Sands_of_time]

This is how I feel now...When I start dating again I'm going to want somebody who either makes just as much money as me or close to it and they have goals and aspirations and ambition. I know what I'm bringing to the table and I sure don't need a leach or somebody who has no real goals in life. Maybe I'm an a-hole for thinking this way but I spoke to some coffee girl/barista the other day walking back from lunch downtown....After she told me she just works there and doesn't go to school and that's that and she was like 24 or 25 years old.....that was a big negative to me...

 

Petey...good point here. One thing I can share from my experience is that my STBXW passed every one of the "tests" you mentioned above....and then some. And she was beautiful...strike that, gorgeous (I thought I hit the lottery with her when we fell in love). From recent therapy and research here's what I picked up and I hope it helps you:

 

Just because she has a Master's degree, is gorgeous, makes almost as much as I do, great support system, gregarious...etc doesn't necessarily mean they have the values to go the distance. Those things you mentioned are definitely step #1 in qualifying the next mate but there has to be another step in the process. The values they have aren't something that is on paper like a degree. The values can't be defined by the paycheck they bring in. The values aren't defined by how nice and juicy their tata's are.

 

If I ever figure out step #2 and how to get there I'll CALL you...lol. How does one really look into the soul of someone and figure out if they can go the distance? That is a million dollar question.

[peteyj]

Yeah who knows.. I just know that after the past 5 years with my soon to be ex-wife(3 of those married but we did live together for 5 years) I have no desire to date somebody who has no job, goes to college part time and is more full of crap than anything else.. Well she wasn't really full of crap she was just lazy I guess. She had goals but those were just pie in the sky goals that she never really attempted to achieve. Just talked about them.

 

Who knows how you find out what it is that makes things last. My parents have been married for like 35 years. My uncle and aunt have been married for almost 40 years. My cousin(who is 39 now) has been married for like 22 years... So it's not really an age thing or whatever. It's more about some people try to make things work and other people run at the first signs of trouble.

 

If you spend a few years getting to know somebody, actually liking them, and then you love them enough and they love you enough to actually get married... I think there should be something there where at the first signs of trouble they don't run off to sleep with somebody else or they don't just end it because they are bored or whatever.

 

I really don't know as I don't plan on getting married again in all honesty. Too many headaches and when there is a break up, it's not just that easy. If my soon to be ex-wife and I were just a couple, I could have left when all this crap went down and never looked back. Instead I'm forced to live in the same apartment as her until June, I still have to pay for medical benefits for her cause I can't change that until May(when open-enrollment is again), I still have to worry about her changing her mind and contesting the Divorce cause she wants support, and so on. I really don't see myself ever wanting to go through this whole process again. Hey if I find somebody who I really like, it doesn't mean we have to get married.

[BusterBrown]

Petey...good point here. One thing I can share from my experience is that my STBXW passed every one of the "tests" you mentioned above....and then some. And she was beautiful...strike that, gorgeous (I thought I hit the lottery with her when we fell in love). From recent therapy and research here's what I picked up and I hope it helps you:

 

Just because she has a Master's degree, is gorgeous, makes almost as much as I do, great support system, gregarious...etc doesn't necessarily mean they have the values to go the distance. Those things you mentioned are definitely step #1 in qualifying the next mate but there has to be another step in the process. The values they have aren't something that is on paper like a degree. The values can't be defined by the paycheck they bring in. The values aren't defined by how nice and juicy their tata's are.

 

If I ever figure out step #2 and how to get there I'll CALL you...lol. How does one really look into the soul of someone and figure out if they can go the distance? That is a million dollar question.

 

 

That's true. My wife was very ambitious. She was in the medical field and was working her way through school and up the ladder in her career. She was very hard-working. Very honorable in that respect.

 

I think where it all broke down though is her family history. Her dad was addicted to drugs and did all sorts of bad things. He left his family when she was a kid. He is now in his 40's and still lives with his parents.

 

Her mom is now on her 3rd husband. And this guy is the definition of door-mat. He lets her walk all over him.

 

I think she has seen the adults in her life act in this disfunctional way and she doesn't see the big deal in getting a divorce.

 

I think what it all comes down to is finding the woman with the total package. That means having strong morals, ambition, integrity, etc... Finding a woman like that these days is not easy.

[dead-dyke]

 

I think what it all comes down to is finding the woman with the total package. That means having strong morals, ambition, integrity, etc... Finding a woman like that these days is not easy.

 

 

That's a fable. They don't exist. You, my friend, are 60 years born too late. I think I'm in one of my HE-MAN women haters moods. I'd better leave this place for now.

[TrustInYourself]

Vows are shackles in the deepest prison. Marriage sucks, unless you know how to be married. They don't teach people how to live monogamously, so what are you doing to learn how to inter-relate with another human being on a higher level.

 

Perceptions change over time. Complacency kills relationships.

 

Divorce comes from a lack of understanding. A lack of understanding about ourselves and our partners. Why blame them, when you are 50% of the equation. You figure yourself out, change for your own self betterment, and you've solved half the problem.

 

Self pity gets you no where, fast. Your life is turned upside down, you need to turn upside down. Change yourself to change everything.

[Searching49]

Ania, no offense to you. Really. I'm sure you are a good person. But this is exactly what I am talking about.

 

Sorry Ania, all offense to you, you're probably not a good person and you've ruined a few lives for your inability to uphold your vows. That post is exactly why we are all on here. If your ex-husband still doesn't "get it", then it's all your fault for being unable to address the issues you were having with the person that was supposed to mean everything to you.

[dead-dyke]

 

Sorry Ania, all offense to you, you're probably not a good person and you've ruined a few lives for your inability to uphold your vows. That post is exactly why we are all on here. If your ex-husband still doesn't "get it", then it's all your fault for being unable to address the issues you were having with the person that was supposed to mean everything to you.

 

 

Very good post searching - If no one is serious about it, then why bother???

 

On a side note, my mood from earlier wasn't directed at women in general - I actually dreamt of my ex last night. I thought I was through w/ all that silliness.

[Jen-Smitty]

I know there are women out there who still take their vows seriously. I know I'm one of them. Giving up on a relationship for the sake of.. " I've changed...I need someone with goals" Is an excuse that will come up in every marriage your in. We all sit here and say it should be one way and not the other.....but I truly think any relationship has constant work. I mean any relationship..whether it be marriage, friendship, family, etc. EVERYONE changes throughout their life...but that is not a bad thing at all. It's what each person does with it..that matters.

 

Were so used to hearing marriage has to be a certain way. I know as a woman for the longest time I thought that your husband had to wine and dine you everyday, and if he didn't...then well I deserved better. I deserved the knight and shinning armor at all times....if he wouldn't do it...then I should go find someone else to do it. That's the problem....it doesn't nor should it be that way. We all know what we need to feel "emotionally fulfilled" instead of asking for it, or trying to make it happen ourselves we make excuses of why it's the other person's fault. I know for me, I made the excuses, because I didn't want to admit weakness. In the long run it has not made me any happier. If I want to be happy, then I sure as hell should be sitting down making it happen. I can't rely on my spouse to make me feel "pretty, valued, etc" I need to do it myself!!

 

I know my thoughts are all over the place in this post...but I know all relationships are work. Think of your family relationships...friends...do they all stay the same all through out your relationship with them? No...of course not...we tend to adapt easier to those relationship changes, because we think...it's my mom I have to love her no matter what. So you listen to her needs and adapt your behavior in a way you would get along with your mom. Shouldn't all relationships be that way? I'm not saying we all have to go around changing for everyone in our lives, but would it hurt to put the same effort in all of them?

 

I guess I can't get my words out right to make my point. I'm just trying to say...that we all run when it gets tough. We don't want to stay and work for a solution...when we can just blame the other person for not making us happy and move onto to someone else...who will supposedly make us happy. I just don't believe that's true..taking accountability for my own happiness is what it should be. If I don't make me happy and take charge of my emotions...then I will be searching for husband after husband still thinking the next one will make me happy. If you don't fix you or the relationship your in...you will always have the same emotional issues in every relationship.

 

If none of this makes sense..I completely understand...I'm not good with putting my thoughts into words. They always sound awesome in my head!!!

[D-Lish]

I took my vows very seriously. Sitting here as a divorced woman, facing all the dating BS, having to worry about std's, having a dating profile online.... It's still surreal to me sometimes.

 

The problem is that you can never actually look ahead to the future and know if the person you give your heart to will hurt you someday. That's just not realistic.

 

The biggest indicator that you are ready for love again is when you accept that getting hurt is a possibility- but proceed regardless.

 

My ex H got another woman prgnant while we were married. I couldn't take my vows seriously after that.

 

What is unfortunate is that people used to stay together because it just wasn't acceptable to get a divorce. My grandparents hated one another. He had affairs throughout the marriage and she spent her life resenting him. I don't wish that kind of life on anyone.

[theBrokenMuse]

Eh. There are plenty of women who don't take their marriage seriously but then there are plenty of men who walk out on their families to go shack up with some bimbo or whatnot too. People in western civilizations are spoiled. That's the problem. We think our own happiness is the be all end all and expect instant gratification.

 

No one wants to do the actual work to make a marriage succeed these days. They think it should be as effortless as the movies and if it's not then it wasn't meant to be. How cliche and downright lazy. Oh, and god forbid if your partner loses some hair, gains some weight or has some minuscule flaw/habit that you find annoying because that's grounds for an instant trip to the courthouse now.

 

Bleech! Oh, and I am the one walking away from my marriage but at least I put in the effort to attempt to make it work. It's just too bad my husband wouldn't.

[TrustInYourself]

Eh. There are plenty of women who don't take their marriage seriously but then there are plenty of men who walk out on their families to go shack up with some bimbo or whatnot too. People in western civilizations are spoiled. That's the problem. We think our own happiness is the be all end all and expect instant gratification.

 

No one wants to do the actual work to make a marriage succeed these days. They think it should be as effortless as the movies and if it's not then it wasn't meant to be. How cliche and downright lazy. Oh, and god forbid if your partner loses some hair, gains some weight or has some minuscule flaw/habit that you find annoying because that's grounds for an instant trip to the courthouse now.

 

Bleech! Oh, and I am the one walking away from my marriage but at least I put in the effort to attempt to make it work. It's just too bad my husband wouldn't.

 

And if he tried in his own way, but you were disinclined or emotionally incapable of recognizing his efforts?

[Angel1111]

It may sound strange coming from someone who's been married 3 times, but I do take marriage vows very seriously. I have, however, never walked away from any relationship without giving the person the chance to stop whatever behavior they're doing that will cause me to walk out the door. I don't understand why anyone would just walk away without discussing it first.

 

I have never second-guessed myself for leaving those marriages, though. Once I actually left, I knew in my heart that it was the right thing to do. Because by that time, I knew the relationship wasn't workable. But all the failed relationships have left their mark on me. I'm very afraid of getting involved with anyone again. I think I'm just a bad judge of character but each time I had to walk away, it nearly destroyed me. I don't want to go through it again.