Does anybody believe in Karma?

[chris250]

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on karma. I personally don't believe in it. I believe that we reap what we sow but that's totally different from karma.

 

From my understanding karma is the belief that God will reward you if you do good and God will see to it to punish you if you do bad. In other words do good, get good, do bad, get beaten by God.

 

I don't really believe this. I see many wicked people (when I say wicked I mean wicked by human standards of good & evil) prosper and who never seem to pay for their crimes. I also see many good people who don't get compensated for their acts of goodness but they just keep getting bombarded with hardship after hardship.

 

I think the bible said it best that trials and prosperity reign on both those who do good and those who do evil. God sends the sun and the rain on everyone. I think the karma theory was developed because we have such a hard time accepting the reality that this life is not fair.

 

I've done some good works that I've never been rewarded for and probably will never be rewarded for. I've also done some bad works that I've never been punished for and never will. Some of my good and bad works have both been done in secret. I didn't get recognized by man for the good works and I didn't get caught by man for my bad works.

 

The only reward one is guaranteed for good works is the good inner feeling of joy & peace. The only punishment one is guaranteed for bad works is the inner feeling of a tormented conscience. I think walking around with a tormented conscience is actually a worse punishment than going to jail and worse than death.

 

I guess my point is that if karma is true and if it's true that doing evil will guarantee to bring evil back to you later then it also has to be equally true that doing good will also guarantee good things to come back to you later. You can't have one without the other. You either need to hang on to both or let go of both.

 

I don't believe in karma for the simple reason that I don't believe we are under God's law anymore. Therefore because we're not under the law I have to let go of both the punishment for violation of the law as well as letting go of the reward for obeying the law.

 

Under grace there is no reward /punishment system. You might get a good feeling inside by doing good to others. You might also get a bad feeling inside from a guilty conscience for doing bad to others but there is no reward or punishment coming from God.

[Trialbyfire]

I don't necessarily believe in Karma, as it's defined religiously, but I do believe that life can be karmic. I've seen some pretty nasty things happen to nasty people and good things happen to good people.

 

At the end of the day, only how you view and define yourself matters. I couldn't live with myself if I did a lot of the things that other people do. This doesn't make me the most moral, law-abiding, honourable person in the world but at least I try to be someone I can live with, like and respect.

[D-Lish]

Well crap, if I was down with such a belief, Id have won the lottery by now.

 

I have no belief in god(s). BUT- if you like Karma- it's really only about "what comes around, goes around". Makes sense logically. People that are friendly and helpful will produce a similar response. People that are miserable and crappy will not produce a good response.

 

I am the kind of person that would always pull over when someone is on the highway in distress, stop and help someone out of a snow bank, give an old lady a hand across the street... I don't know. I guess I don't care if It leads to a reciprocal relationship with the universe.

 

I live in a snow ridden province- and I have helped out many seniors in the past 2 weeks. Digging out my neighbours, stopping to help strangers- it would never seem okay to pass by a stranger in need..

[Mahatma]

My version of karma does not include any "god."

 

These "wicked" people you speak of may do bad things and it may seem that nothing bad happens to them, but if you look you will see they are very unhappy people.

 

Short response to an in depth question, but I wanted to make it a point that a god does not control karma.

[Moose]

Under grace there is no reward /punishment system.Ahem....excuse me, but yes, there is.

 

When we finally meet Christ, some will have more to lay at His feet than others....some Christians will barely make it, like escaping a burning house at the last possible moment.

 

Some, (because of being under grace) will have done more good works and will have more to show for it....thus, will have more reward.

 

Personally, I'd be happy polishing the pearly gates, (if there are any).....

[sweetbrokensoul]

At the end of the day, only how you view and define yourself matters. I couldn't live with myself if I did a lot of the things that other people do. This doesn't make me the most moral, law-abiding, honourable person in the world but at least I try to be someone I can live with, like and respect.

 

 

 

Absolutely AGREE with this!!!

[chris250]

My version of karma does not include any "god."

 

These "wicked" people you speak of may do bad things and it may seem that nothing bad happens to them, but if you look you will see they are very unhappy people.

 

Short response to an in depth question, but I wanted to make it a point that a god does not control karma.

 

I absolutely agree that selfish people are not really happy with themselves on the inside.

 

I guess my definition of karma involves some sort of external and tangible reward and punishment that comes to you later.

 

But it's not an absolute rule in life that one will get some external tangible reward for doing good or an external tangible punishment for doing bad.

 

An example of a tangible reward or punishment is being recognized and praised by others for your good works or getting caught by the police for bad works.

 

I do agree that living a selfish life is guaranteed to make one unhappy even if they never get caught by other people doing bad things. That's just the natural consequence of being preoccupied with self for too long.

 

Many psychologists tell us that one of the best ways to treat depression is to go out and help others less fortunate than ourselves. In my experience it has worked to make me feel better. The idea is that taking my eyes off of myself & focusing on helping others with larger problems will help set me free.

[Geishawhelk]

Well, it would help if your definition of Karma was accurate.

 

 

Until you know what it actually is, then of course you're going to have all these wild imaginings.

 

Karma is not a judgemental thing, or a means of retribbution, or punishment. It's not a tit-for-tat kind of deal.

It's simply a process.

 

This is karma.

 

As a Buddhist, I'm always coming up against this error.

[knaveman]

This is my favorite description of karma.

 

From Buddhism for Dummies:

 

We're not talking about rewards and punishments here when we talk about karma. You're not a bad boy is you cheat on your taxes or a good girl if you help the old lady across the street. The law of karma doesn't carry that kind of judgemental baggage; it's much more practical and down to earth. The point is simple: If you act with ill will, you'll experience ill will in the future. If you act with love, you'll experience love in return. Or to continue the metaphor of the seeds: As you sow, so shall you reap.

[Geishawhelk]

So it's not a question of whether anyone believes in Karma or Kamma. It's a natural phenomenon, a perpetual process, like gravity. Or, like radio-waves.... all around us, all the time.....

 

Just because you don't acknowlege it, see it, feel it or manhandle it, it doesn't mean it isn't there.

 

You process and create your own Kamma, with every living conscious thought.

[Quinch]

my Karma ran over my Dogma

[bhweller]

Karma is not the Jewish/Christian/Islamic idea of being punished for sin by a higher power.

 

there is a good wikipedia article on it

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

[Ronni_W]

I believe that we reap what we sow but that's totally different from karma.

Chris,

If you believe in the concept of "we reap what we sow", then that is as close as you're going to get to believing in the law of karma, even if you don't believe in it.

 

From the chapter Understanding Karma in 'Ruling Your World' by Sakyong Mipham:

~ Many causes and conditions come together for one thing to occur.

~ Whatever we see is a meeting of interdependent causes and conditions - not a snapshot but a moving picture.

~ The karmic seed we plant might rest in the depth of our mindstream for ten billion lifetimes waiting for the necessary conditions to occur, but once they do, it will ripen.

~ Karmic events may seem illogical, but that's because we don't understand all the causes and conditions.

 

So, according to above, when we think we are seeing "wicked" people being "rewarded" and "good" people going "uncompensated," that is not necessarily an accurate view...we can't make the determination because we just don't know what 'karmic seed' they planted, when.

 

Even if we don't believe in reincarnation, we can consider that it can take years or decades for each of us to experience the 'ripening' of a particular 'seed' we planted way back when.

 

For me, yes, the consequences of our "ripened seeds" CAN seem like a reward or a punishment. It's just that, through law of karma, we chose our "rewards" and "punishments" ourselves -- there's not an external Higher Power making assessments and decisions about it.

[Trialbyfire]

my Karma ran over my Dogma

Very funny!

[kashmir]

I don't believe in karma. I think the universe is too chaotic for it to exist.

 

There are way too many significant events happening every second to be sure that your good actions will eventually come around again to benefit you. Being good to people might bite you in the ass later on or being bad could benefit you if other events come into play. There's no telling what can happen. Your actions as an individual have an extremely miniscule influence over events that you will experience in the future, since there are infinite other forces at work.

[knaveman]

There are way too many significant events happening every second to be sure that your good actions will eventually come around again to benefit you.

 

So, do you only do things to benefit you? You don't do a good deed even if no one would ever find out about it?

[annieo]

my Karma ran over my Dogma

 

Condolences Hopefully your dharma is unharmed.

[Geishawhelk]

I don't believe in karma. I think the universe is too chaotic for it to exist.

 

There are way too many significant events happening every second to be sure that your good actions will eventually come around again to benefit you. Being good to people might bite you in the ass later on or being bad could benefit you if other events come into play. There's no telling what can happen. Your actions as an individual have an extremely miniscule influence over events that you will experience in the future, since there are infinite other forces at work.

 

THis comment (in bold) tells me you still have absolutely no accurate idea of what karma is..... You still don't get it, do you?

In fact, your whole post reflects the general ignorance of Karma in general.

Whilst people still walk around with this miguided misconception, youthey will never understand it.

[Weird]

Well if one believes in an afterlife then they should believe in this because if you are a prick then you will probably be punished when you leave this life.

 

As for "karma" during this life, I think for the most part it exists. I don't think it is some constant/minor thing where every single good thing you do will be rewarded by an equal good outcome but if you are generally a prick then you will get fugged over and if you are a really good person then you'll get something happen to you that is good.

 

What I do know is the universe is not so chaotic that this doesn't exist. I see way too many things happen that have structure to believe there is nothing other than the universe simply being some chaotic entity with no structure or God and things happen just by coincidence.

[kashmir]

Before you start calling me ignorant, which is obviously just because I don't agree with you (which actually makes YOU ignorant), I know the point of karma isn't to do good because it will ensure that good will come back to you. I realize that I worded it that way in my last post, which was bad on my part, but that isn't what I meant.

 

From my understanding, karma is the concept that we forge our own destinies. All of our actions have respective consequences. It's not about doing good or bad, but it's about giving and receiving positive and negative energy to achieve balance. If an individual gives away negative energy onto the the rest of world, he/she will sooner or later get it back in order to be balanced. If that individual gives negative energy away, but conversely gives positive energy away, then the individual will become balanced with energy once again without having to receive negative energy from the world.

 

It's a very interesting concept, but I don't believe in energy in a spiritual sense. I don't believe any kind of spiritual balance needs to be achieved. I think all these beliefs are just a clever and very intricate illusion created from evolution in order to protect the human species from themselves. Really we're just complex arrangements of organic molecules and chemicals that are PART of a chaotic universe, not separate from it as beacons of order.

 

The bottom line is, though, that all of this is pure speculation. You don't know what you're talking about and neither do I - we're just making guesses about how our universe works in order to function better in it. Again, it's just part of the illusion of meaning that our conscious creates in order to help us survive.

[annieo]

Karma doesn't wait, it's immediate.

 

If you are living in a spiritual desert, if you have no conscience and hurt/use people with intent, if you have no sense of empathy, if other people are just objects for you to use or get past, you are living in hell, whether you have the awareness to realize it or not.

[kashmir]

Karma doesn't wait, it's immediate.

 

If you are living in a spiritual desert, if you have no conscience and hurt/use people with intent, if you have no sense of empathy, if other people are just objects for you to use or get past, you are living in hell, whether you have the awareness to realize it or not.

 

To me, the universe is an infinite sandbox where anyone can mold it or manipulate it in any way they want. It holds infinite secrets that continue to fascinate us every time we discover them. My life's intent is to do what I can to manipulate some of the threads that make the universe and life inside of it, simply to satisfy my own curiosity and amusement. This is what scientists do. If I'm able to pursue this without any conscious or concern for the traditional ethics our society has established, then all the better. If there's one thing that limits a scientist's curious mind, it's the pointless ethics that are established by those without such curiosity. These ethics are not part of the universe - they're a human creation, and as far as I'm concerned they're just objects to get past.

[knaveman]

The bottom line is, though, that all of this is pure speculation. You don't know what you're talking about and neither do I - we're just making guesses about how our universe works in order to function better in it. Again, it's just part of the illusion of meaning that our conscious creates in order to help us survive.

 

By this logic the fact that you call all this speculation is also speculation. What you are saying is that none of this can be proven to someone who doesn't want it proven to them.

[kashmir]

I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone. I saw the thread's question and responded to it because I wanted to take part in a discussion.

 

But seriously, ANY kind of spiritual belief is completely speculation. No one will ever prove there is a god or there isn't one. That's why I'm content with saying that I don't know if there is a god, and I really don't care.

[Geishawhelk]

Before you start calling me ignorant, which is obviously just because I don't agree with you (which actually makes YOU ignorant), I know the point of karma isn't to do good because it will ensure that good will come back to you. I realize that I worded it that way in my last post, which was bad on my part, but that isn't what I meant.

One - I didn't call you ignorant. I said that you have an ignorance of Karma in general. That's quite different. So please read a post accurately before making rash judgements of this kind. Ignorance in this case is not aligned with stupidity, as you seem to think I implied. Ignorance in this instance is being unaware, or lacking knowlege.

 

And two, if you worded something incorrectly (and you admit it's a "bad" in your post) you can't blame people for subsequently misunderstanding you - can you......?

 

 

From my understanding, karma is the concept that we forge our own destinies. All of our actions have respective consequences. It's not about doing good or bad, but it's about giving and receiving positive and negative energy to achieve balance. If an individual gives away negative energy onto the the rest of world, he/she will sooner or later get it back in order to be balanced. If that individual gives negative energy away, but conversely gives positive energy away, then the individual will become balanced with energy once again without having to receive negative energy from the world.

 

It's a very interesting concept, but I don't believe in energy in a spiritual sense.

 

Your understanding is incorrect. It has nothing to do with any kind of "energy. Where exactly are you getting your information from...?

 

I don't believe any kind of spiritual balance needs to be achieved.

You're right, it doesn't.

 

I think all these beliefs are just a clever and very intricate illusion created from evolution in order to protect the human species from themselves.

 

....pardon?

This is absolutely meaningless.... Evolution is a process, not a creative entity.....

 

 

The bottom line is, though, that all of this is pure speculation. You don't know what you're talking about and neither do I ...

 

Yes, I got that bit!

The thing is, we're talking about Karma. And I'm afraid it has nothing to do with evolution, molecules and energy.

As I said, you have not understood the concept of Karma AT ALL!

 

we're just making guesses about how our universe works in order to function better in it. Again, it's just part of the illusion of meaning that our conscious creates in order to help us survive.

You do realise that with that one simple sentence you have created karma for yourself, don't you?