To stand my ground or not?

[moimeme]

Fortunately, protocols have been developed to diagnose children early. I believe I recently saw that there's a report indicating that early intervention can make a big difference, which makes sense. You are right to be concerned, though. Medicine has been making great strides in terms of treating mental illnesses and, I hope to God, by the time your kids are old enough to understand what's going on, the stigma of mental illness will be all but gone.

[ilovemybabies]

I am new here, but my heart is absolutely breaking for you and your kids. What a nightmare. I think you are correct to not allow him and his family access to the kids unless he is determined to be stable. One other thing that might be helpful: have you documented each episode? I wouldn't be above getting a small tape recorder and recording conversations to protect yourself. Document, document, document. Also, contacting a battered women's shelter is a wonderful idea.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Has your husband or his father already been clinically diagnosed with chemical depression? I’m trying to get a clearer picture of the situation, so I went back to read the original thread that brought the two of you to the forum, but I think I must have missed something along the way. (scratching head...)

 

He mentions being placed on “meds.” But, if he is indeed taking them, his behavior would indicate that what ever he was prescribed isn't exactly working. So I'm guessing it was simply a mild anti-depressant?

 

I was also curious about the first therapist he says that the two of you saw together, but decided you did not trust. Was this the first and only session the two of you attended? And if so, what was it about your therapist that made you feel distrustful and feel as if the two of you were a “meal ticket?”

 

My wife and I went to a therapist today and it was worse. Niether of us trusted the guy and he just did not seem interested in our problems or issues seemed to sees us as a meal ticket so to speak. Now she is reluctant to go and more she does not see any other resolution to this then divorce.

 

I love my wife a great deal but I am at a loss I pinned a lot of hope on the therapist but it didn't work.

[Curt]

Beth,

 

I had no idea what you've gone through. You're such a wonderful, intelligent woman, dear...I find it so distressing that you are going through all this.

 

Please forgive the intrusion but, how did you both get together in the first place? What made him "the one?"

 

Oh, and were there any recognizable signs of these psychological issues from the outset?

 

Did you go into that on another thread? I'd like the link of possible.

 

Sweetie, you have a lot of hard decisions to make.

 

I just can't get over how some guys treat their kids. To make you walk home with two young children...well, it just baffles me. I suppose it's all as a result of his illness, although I could never see myself coming to any point where I would treat any kids I had with such venom and disregard.

 

Sheesh...it sickens me that any woman has to go through this.

 

Curt

[moimeme]

although I could never see myself coming to any point where I would treat any kids I had with such venom and disregard.

 

There but for the grace of God go you and I, Curt. People with these illnesses are not allowed to control their minds by the very illnesses - depending, of course, on the severity of the case. It is a conceit that we are always in control. When we know people like this (and I've known some in my time), we begin to understand how powerless we are in the face of any illness. We are mere mortals and it doesn't take much to send us awry.

[Curt]

Exactly,

 

As I said in the post...

I suppose it's all as a result of his illness,

 

Sad in any event. OOOOOH the humanity of it all.

 

Curt

[moimeme]

although I could never see myself coming to any point where I would treat any kids I had with such venom and disregard.

 

Perhaps I read too much into your 'although'.

 

M

[Curt]

Maybe it's just me being pissy...hard to say.

 

 

Curt

[2SidestoStories]

Ilovemybabies:

I thank you very much for your kindness and sympathy. Many of the threats he has made have been via telephone until now, so I have flat out refused to have conversations with him that way. Until today, I had not physically seen him for over a week (the kids were visiting for a few hours at a time each weekend fairly consistently, until he pulled the car stunt.) All other of his "chats" with me have been via e-mail, and thankfully I have been quite good at keeping records of that. The lovely thing on my end is that he has written the emails from his work, and he happens to work in a government facility; therefore his work e-mail address is stamped upon each and every e-mail along with time and date. <smirk> And he thinks I'm stupid.

 

 

Enigma:

I do not have any actual evidence of any diagnosis made on either he or his father. I just have what HE has said has happened, and therefore I am reluctant to believe it. You ask about the counselor we saw: he immediately said that he would like to spend more one-on-one sessions with my exhb, and at the time, exhb had ZERO interest in pursuing counseling for himself. "He" did not "need" the counseling. "HE" was not the one with the "Problems." Exhb seemed to believe that seeing the counselor was a one-time shot sort of thing, and I told him that with that attitude, there was no point to continuing the counseling, and that I was indeed going to pursue the divorce. He has had quite the history of depression and suicide threats throughout our relationship, and I had asked on several occasions if he would try to get help; I suggested everything from an HR person at his job to a priest or minister. He always flat out refused. More often than not, he was angered at my suggestion that there may be "something wrong with him." Even now, he claims that I never asked him to get help before this most recent turn of events. It's really distressing. And of course, in his mind, it's all MY fault.

 

As to the meds, according to his father today, this is the third medication he's been on in the past two months. So at least from that standpoint his parents recognize that he's needed help. What just absolutely floors me is that they have tried to rationalize this behavior of his as anything acceptable; that I'm being unreasonable for wanting myself and the children to not deal with his continual violent mood swings, et cetera. They both have said, "We really think *****'s going to get better! He WANTS to make the marriage work. He loves the children! He doesn't MEAN it when he tells you all they do is incite anger in him!" inhaling deeply

 

Curt:

 

blushing furiously yet again, darn you! Thank you for your kind words as well.

 

No intrusion, and in fact I may well become a poster girl for this sort of thing: we met through mutual friends who were dating one another: my friend has been one of my absolute closest friends since we were 10 years old, and the two gents had known one another since they were in kindergarten, but were never actually friends until college. I had just come out of another very nasty relationship and was not in any real state to judge what I wanted in a relationship. I was 19 at the time, it was a major heartbreak (among other things, but this is another story for another time...) and exhb was exactly the opposite of the fellow who had, for all intents and purposes, dumped me on my proverbial arse. He was absolutely safe in my mind, because he went to college in a town that was over an hours' drive away; he was quiet and introverted; he had not had arelationship since his sophomore year of high school (should this have been a hint?); he seemed interested in what I had to say; he was a virgin, (big deal at the time based on my ex!) etc. There was a point when during our e-mailing back and forth that we had a serious miscommunication that should have been a pretty big clue to me (hindsight...) wherein he said something along the lines of, "I've decided I'm leaving you...this is just too hard on me, etc. etc. I just want to go to sleep and never wake up...etc. etc." (First of his suicidal mentions, and rather than saying "WHOA! You should get help, dude!" I said, "NO! Don't leave me! I can love you enough to prove to you that you're worthwhile!" ::slapping my own hand::

 

Anyway...he doesn't drive, as I think I said in this thread earlier, but his friend of several years came up to town pretty much every weekend, and exhb would come along as well. As any typically hormonal youngsters did, we were...active...and unprotected...and I wound up pregnant with my daughter after less than six months' of "dating" if you can even call it that. He left school, came back here and got a job. His family is Catholic (another reason I was 'not so good' in their eyes) and though they did not demand that we get married, his mother made it quite clear what she thought of me from that moment forward. (More stupid story that really is irrelevant. The dislike is quite mutual.) I actually put off marrying him until about six months after Maddie was born, and the unfortunate and primary reason I did marry him was I believed it would be the catalyst for his acceptance of me and the baby, because he was terrible with her; by this I mean he was physically forceful (though he never left marks of any physical sort.) and negligent and so forth. I was terrified of him because he was just angry all the time. He has said that he was JEALOUS of the attention I was giving Maddie, which is why he was mean to her!!!! To some degree, jealousy is a natural response, but when it results in abuse, it is heinous.

 

In the meantime, he continued the suicide threats as well as the repeated mental and emotional abuse of me. I won't even bother going into detail, primarily because this has become ridiculously long as it is. But suffice it to say that over the course of the past five years, except very recently, I have believed myself to be ugly, fat, unintelligent, incapable, worthless, and so forth. And I have also come to recognize my role as his enabler; I let him control aspects of my existence without even realizing it was happening. Like his not driving; I was basically his personal driver, and he would get sulky and withdrawn or just plain angry if, say, Maddie was having some problem or another when he had called for a ride. I couldn't leave the house without him except to drive him to work, lest I be given more of the sulky and pouty behavior; if he called the house from work, and I did not answer, he would get either furious or 'depressed.' Again, in retrospect, I was so absolutely well trained that when I finally stood up for myself, at first he just did not take me seriously as per usual, but when I repeated that I wanted him gone, it very well may have shocked him into the threats and such in concentrated form.

 

And this is me rambling about all of this. To answer your question, though, Curt...he was never "the one." I knew it in my heart, but until very recently, I never realized that I could do anything about that.

 

Here's the other thread links, too...just so you can check them out:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t23521/ (his original post, and what brought me to the Shack. Maybe I should thank him! LOL)

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t24318/

 

Merry

You're fabulous. Just thought I'd say that. Thank you for all of your support.

[moimeme]

Merry

You're fabulous. Just thought I'd say that. Thank you for all of your support.

 

Thank you kindly, Beth You ain't so bad yourself

[moimeme]

Just read the one above. Saw this one; sharp, pointy object straight through the heart.

 

I can love you enough to prove to you that you're worthwhile!

 

Beware, my friend. The ones who feel worthless can zoom in on us with the precision and accuracy of the highest-end ABM! And do we ever wring every molecule out of love out of ourselves to try to heal them. And, in some cases, is it ever futile. Heartwrenchingly, exhaustingly futile. What a bitter lesson to have to learn; that love on its own won't heal and that our best and brightest love is not enough.

[2SidestoStories]

Heartwrenchingly, exhaustingly futile. What a bitter lesson to have to learn; that love on its own won't heal and that our best and brightest love is not enough.

 

Indeed. Awfully difficult blow for someone like me who is an utter sap, and who so desperately wanted to believe that by pouring all of my being into someone, the feelings would be reciprocated. Alas for me that they were simply absorbed, occasionally tossed completely aside, etc. It's heartwrenching for me to sit and think about it, in part because if how betrayed I feel, and in part because I feel so stupid to have let myself be so absolutely taken advantage of. The latter, I am beginning to cope with a great deal better than the former, naturally. What makes this all the more difficult is that his family is encouraging him to "fight" me. His parents have expressed concern that "SHE" is going to take away "THEIR" grandkids, and "HE" can't let "HER" do that! <sigh> Like my father said, though, where the heck were they when things were supposedly going well?!

 

In so many ways, I wish I had better tools with which to cope with such a completely horrific situation. I know that I can be manipulated, as I have learned all too well over the past five years, and even now with him being 'gone,' there is still that part of me that questions "Maybe now it IS different." Waking up every morning with my baby son, who looks so very much like his father it's frightening, I just have to stifle tears at the thought that so much horror has already happened in his little life. (This situation being the second major trauma for him, mind you: he was born via emergency c-section with a collapsed lung, and thus had to stay in the hospital for the first week of his life and then was sent home on Oxygen for the first month...won't even bother to go into how his father reacted to me or the baby at that point...I'm sure you can reasonably piece it together.) And my daughter continues to lash out, because although she is brilliant for a four year old, she still only has rather limited comprehension of the situation. And of course, when she has seen her father, he has been nothing but charming and loving and wonderful; yet since she's around mom all the time, she sees the good and the bad and all the in-between...<sigh>

 

One day this will settle itself out. Truly.

[moimeme]

to have let myself be so absolutely taken advantage of

 

Try not to think of it like that, Beth. You are a giver and some people haven't the capacity to do other than take. You know it wasn't deliberate. You tried to do something good. That you failed is a function of the situation, not of your attempt. (Do you hear echoes of self-talk here? ) But really, it's true. I liken it to saying a child has 'taken advantage of' one. They really can't do better.

 

there is still that part of me that questions "Maybe now it IS different."

 

The curse of optimism. One of the most powerful literary moments I ever had was in L'Etranger, when Meursault, understanding that his cause was hopeless, accepts his fate, thinking that peace could be achieved by abandoning hope.

[2SidestoStories]

I'm going to begin this particular post with a disclaimer to the effect that I am now venting completely, and though this may be relevant to me, it will be long-winded and you may of course opt to not bother reading it!

 

One thing that this period of separation has allowed me to do is have a great deal of time to reflect upon my actions and reactions to this entire situation. It has been helpful that so many of you brilliant Shackers have taken the time to read and help me through all of this, as you have given me many things to mull over, and thereby find the ways in which I can work toward getting past this. Some very key things have been said in various ways, and I've done a lot of thinking and today a lot of getting extremely angry, not only at myself but also at him. The thing I have realized is that for the love of Pete, I am ALLOWED to feel angry with him. I am ALLOWED to have my own safety and emotions and the safety of my children and their emotions as my priority. I realized that in the conversation with his parents yesterday, they were implying that I was a horrible person for reacting to their Son Who Can Do No Wrong in such an "intolerant" manner. I know that they don't know the entire truth of the situation, and I would dare say that they are likely being fed constant lies or at least very vague pieces of the truth in the matter. The realization I had pertaining to that is "Fine. Because what have I got to prove to them? Their priority has always been their son anyway, and therefore, they can have him!"

 

I've also been thinking a great deal about how it's possible for someone to expect that they can "get away with" treating other people so very shamefully, then pass the blame when the one they've been being so destructive to resists their "KIND" overtures. "But Beth, I'm REALLY a changed man! Have I harassed you in the past two weeks?" ("No, because I have refused to have contact with you!") The thing is, now it doesn't amount to a pile of horse manure whether he has 'changed' or not! With as horrific as he has been, I can never trust him again. Yet, this is somehow MY fault, and I am somehow the "BAD ONE" for refusing to allow myself or my children to be sucked back in. The kinds of changes that would need to take place, especially if he truly is sick, are going to be significantly longer to accomplish than his behavior indicates in a week's time. Or two weeks' time. And the fact that this has been going on to some degree for the past five years is a pretty decent indication that in spite of the medication he's on currently making him have less a tendency to lash out, the moment that his parents are not on his case about making sure he takes his pills twice a day, he's going to quit taking them entirely.

 

Something else that I alluded to before was the video game situation. This was a very serious point of contention throughout our relationship because he was quite literally obsessed with video games and computers and other electronic goodies. He was always one of those sorts who complained incessantly if I spent over a hundred dollars on groceries for the household, but would drop a grand on video game equipment or games or whatnot, because it was the thing he wanted to do. When I made my comment on air about the PS2 situation, I was unfortunately being honest, though it was a different console (nintendo versus playstation): He had just gotten his biweekly paycheck, and we needed some household items like laundry detergent and such. We went to acquire said items, and I decided to stop off at the shoe section to look for a new pair of sneakers for Maddie. James all but threw a hissy fit there in the store, because if I bought the ten dollar pair of shoes, he would have to wait until later to buy his stupid basketball game for the Nintendo! Firstly, we were not badly off financially by any stretch of the imagination; secondly, Maddie NEEDED the shoes; thirdly, I hadn't bought anything for myself in literally years, because any time I would mention needing something like new socks, he would give me hell for it. More often than not, though, if there was a DVD out that I had expressed interest in seeing, he'd buy THAT for me, and say stuff like, "See what a NICE guy I am? See how well I take care of you?!" Absolutely disgusting!

 

Oh, and this is quite interesting as well: in the time that he has been living at his parents house, besides the threat of spending the $5000.00 on a lawyer, he has spent at least $1300 on, get this: a Playstation 2, and a new digital camera.

 

Seriously, even if there is nothing chemically wrong with him, there is definitely plenty wrong with him emotionally. As I have come to recognize in the past hour or so of pacing around my house, even IF the past two months had not unfolded in the way they have, I would still feel absolutely justified in leaving him. The shameful treatment of me, the children, the house he claims he gave a rat's arse about AFTER I booted him out of it, my family, our friends...THAT is enough. Nobody deserves to go through what he's been putting our family through, ESPECIALLY when he sees that he's doing no wrong.

 

<sigh> Had to get it off my chest. There's of course plenty more where it came from, but I think I'm transitioning into the super angry phase of this, and I'd rather vent it at the computer than in front of the kids!!!

[moimeme]

He sure sounds as though he has some ADD mixed in with that bipolar. The hyperfocus on video games, the blaming (hoo boy, you want to talk about being blamed, log into a few 'ADD spouse' sites. There is a LARGE sisterhood, friend), the fiscal stuff. It's no wonder the two conditons can be misdiagnosed for each other. Sometimes they are comorbid.

 

They got broken brains, Beth. I never could persuade myself to not get angry about the behaviours, even though I fully understood that they weren't deliberate. Nobody but nobody will deny that these people are beyond impossible to live with, particularly when they're unmedicated or not medicated properly.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Beth, you have been married to an adolescent...at least someone who has not yet emotionally "matured."

 

Your husband was also still a “teenager” when the two of you married. You became, in essense, a "surregant" parent to him. It sounds like he came from a doting, over-protective family where he was probably spoiled (at least by Mother.) Am I wrong to guess that she was probably very passive and over indulgent with both her husband and her son?

 

I would also guess that your husband behaves much like his father, simply because that was his most influential “male role modle” in his life, and probably still is. He could have learned, by watching Dad, that the way to manipulate mother (and then eventually wife) was by threats of suicide followed by a dramatic display of theatrics…and/or temper tantrums. Therefore, what he learned about “gender roles” was passed on from father to son. It was only “normal” for him, given his experience, to mimic this behavior when entering into a relationship with you. And I suspect, that giving into him and catering to his demands (as his mother did) it was something all too familiar to him and probably felt quite natural.

 

When reading your posts, I found myself wondering if there had been any actual suicide “attempts” by either the father or the son over the years. What caused me to pause was when you mentioned in one of your posts, that when you tried to dial 911, he stopped you saying, “No, I’ll get fired from work!”

 

In my experience, that to me indicates that he was not in the mindset to “end it all,” or that he was crying out for help. He was still thinking about “tomorrow” and his future. Rather, it may have been a tactic to get your attention (as usual) to turn the situation around in his favor. It worked with you before, so he had no reason to think it wouldn’t work again.

 

This is NOT to say however, that threats of suicide are to be taken lightly!

 

And please forgive me if it seems I am prying, but I was also wondering if there is any history of chemical abuse or use by your husband. A history of alcohol or recreational drugs? No need to answer if you are in any way uncomfortable.

 

Personally, I can’t blame you from wanting to run away from this situation as far as you can! You have absolutely every right to. Your husband definitely needs help, but in addition to medication (if a psychiatric professional---not general practitioner---determines he is suffering from some biological chemical imbalance) he will also need behavior modification. A trained professional is going to have to work real closely with him to undo all the social, developmental and emotional damage that has already been done and basically work hard to “reprogram” him. Sadly, the older one gets, the more difficult the task since certain behaviors become more ingrained in our personalities the longer they go unchecked.

[2SidestoStories]

Beth, you have been married to an adolescent...at least someone who has not yet emotionally "matured."

 

I have often found myself likening his behavior to that of a spoiled yet very sexually aware five year old. I only wish I was joking.

 

When reading your posts, I found myself wondering if there had been any actual suicide “attempts” by either the father or the son over the years. What caused me to pause was when you mentioned in one of your posts, that when you tried to dial 911, he stopped you saying, “No, I’ll get fired from work!”

 

I cannot say for his father. I can say that until the night I actually dialed 911, there was only one other self-proclaimed attempt. He has told me that in his teenage years, he tried (the story has altered as to HOW he tried; electrocution in the bathtub/hanging/overdose, etc.) to commit suicide, but his father prevented it somehow. And according to him, the information that his father had been diagnosed as clinically depressed was not made known to him until after I had booted him out of the house. I think the suicide threats are more a control behavior than anything, but I will not risk that, having had plenty of experience with two friends who both attempted sucide, and knowing one other gal who actually did commit the act.

 

And please forgive me if it seems I am prying, but I was also wondering if there is any history of chemical abuse or use by your husband. A history of alcohol or recreational drugs?

 

A very reasonable question, and let me assure you...the more I can discuss this, the better I am feeling, so ask away! But no, he has never had any inclination to do recreational drugs, save alcohol. He actually mostly quit socially drinking when our daughter was just a baby; only would occasionally indulge. However, as I mentioned, he had always had a VERY serious problem with video games. To the point where in college, he played them so much it was contributing to his failure of classes. In a most stereotypical fashion, I can say that he 'never did anything around the house,' and have only one thing be consistently untrue; he liked to cook, and God forbid if you were in his way when he decided he was going to cook dinner that night! However, I would have to estimate that 90-95% of his time at home was spent in front of his computer screen or his TV, playing video games or reading up on electronic equipment and computers and such. To the point where when on rare occasions that I'd leave the house and have him "watch the children," he would actually sit our daughter down in front of the TV with him so he could play the games. And he wants me to believe this was in any way constructive for her!?!

 

I agree, too, with your sentiment that behavior modification will be in order. It could very well be that his father, having gone through something somewhat similar (ooh, alliteration!) thinks himself an expert in this arena. However, I'd love to challenge that if he knows SO DA*N MUCH, why is it that he did not require his son to go through the counseling when he was a teenager?! His family seems to be loaded with secrets, and I'm sincerely thankful that I am getting out before I get far too absorbed. I just hope the same rings true for the children <sigh>

[2SidestoStories]

The curse of optimism...thinking that peace could be achieved by abandoning hope.

 

Part of me thinks that this is where I was about six months ago. I had given up hope on everything. I had been living my life in a merely existential manner: get up, feed baby, wash something, wake toddler, put baby down for nap...etc. At one point, he actually made the brilliant ascertion that, "Beth, you seem depressed!" I think my response was to just shake my head and laugh under my breath. "Yes, perhaps I am. Can I see a psychologist under your insurance plan, because I'd HATE to be a ridiculous expenditure for you."

[Curt]

Well Beth hunn...

 

I just read through it all. I mean the whole series of posts and replies.

 

All I can say is that I am so sorry that you're going through this.

 

You and the kids went through such emotional and physical turmoil, and all from a man who was making a mockery of your love and affection.

 

You gave this ill, misdirected man your hand, your heart, your all. You brought new life into the world with him twice, and he would never cherish the gift of love and devotion that they were. Love could have surrounded you all.

 

In short, you gave him the life I would so desparately wish to have. How proud I would have been if I had what he had, but because of illnesses of many types, he could not appreciate any of it.

 

Life, sometimes, is very perplexing.

 

We're rootin' for ya though, Beth. Chin up babe, and do right by them kiddies.

 

Curt

[d.stevens]

Originally posted by EnigmaXOXO

Beth, you have been married to an adolescent...at least someone who has not yet emotionally "matured."

 

Your husband was also still a “teenager” when the two of you married. You became, in essense, a "surregant" parent to him. It sounds like he came from a doting, over-protective family where he was probably spoiled (at least by Mother.) Am I wrong to guess that she was probably very passive and over indulgent with both her husband and her son?

 

I would also guess that your husband behaves much like his father, simply because that was his most influential “male role modle” in his life, and probably still is. He could have learned, by watching Dad, that the way to manipulate mother (and then eventually wife) was by threats of suicide followed by a dramatic display of theatrics…and/or temper tantrums. Therefore, what he learned about “gender roles” was passed on from father to son. It was only “normal” for him, given his experience, to mimic this behavior when entering into a relationship with you. And I suspect, that giving into him and catering to his demands (as his mother did) it was something all too familiar to him and probably felt quite natural.

 

When reading your posts, I found myself wondering if there had been any actual suicide “attempts” by either the father or the son over the years. What caused me to pause was when you mentioned in one of your posts, that when you tried to dial 911, he stopped you saying, “No, I’ll get fired from work!”

 

In my experience, that to me indicates that he was not in the mindset to “end it all,” or that he was crying out for help. He was still thinking about “tomorrow” and his future. Rather, it may have been a tactic to get your attention (as usual) to turn the situation around in his favor. It worked with you before, so he had no reason to think it wouldn’t work again.

 

This is NOT to say however, that threats of suicide are to be taken lightly!

 

And please forgive me if it seems I am prying, but I was also wondering if there is any history of chemical abuse or use by your husband. A history of alcohol or recreational drugs? No need to answer if you are in any way uncomfortable.

 

Personally, I can’t blame you from wanting to run away from this situation as far as you can! You have absolutely every right to. Your husband definitely needs help, but in addition to medication (if a psychiatric professional---not general practitioner---determines he is suffering from some biological chemical imbalance) he will also need behavior modification. A trained professional is going to have to work real closely with him to undo all the social, developmental and emotional damage that has already been done and basically work hard to “reprogram” him. Sadly, the older one gets, the more difficult the task since certain behaviors become more ingrained in our personalities the longer they go unchecked.

 

EnigmaXOXO

 

I think your bang on the money! Very well said. He's probably not heard the word "no" in his upbringing. Typical youngster that's clever and calculates how to manipulate a situation until anybody around him "gives in" to his desires.

 

2 sides, your probably the first to stand up to him and say "enough is enough". He's not in control anymore. This isn't something that can be "fixed" in a short period of time either. This behavior is "learned" over time. The good thing is that your aware of all this now.

 

Look at the bright side. You took reponsibility and action now rather than in say, 15 years from now...You still have a lot of good times ahead of you! look in the mirror and be proud of yourself. It takes gutts to take hold of the future!

 

d.man

[2SidestoStories]

I just read through it all. I mean the whole series of posts and replies.

 

Gads, Curt! You must certainly enjoy reading a lot. I surely have a tendency toward the verbose. Thanks for taking so much of your time to read the mini-novel that is Beth's current situation!

 

In short, you gave him the life I would so desparately wish to have. How proud I would have been if I had what he had, but because of illnesses of many types, he could not appreciate any of it.

 

This literally brings tears to my eyes; first and foremost because as I have become familiar with you through your various posts here, I have grown more and more confused as to why someone hasn't descended from the heavens to snatch you up! Secondly, I shift between being angry and just plain sad that exhb has to live his life in such a way that he can't seem to comprehend much that surrounds him. Thirdly, of course, is my own experience with all of this; feeling absolutely daunted by the fact that by my own choice, I will have to allow others to raise my children for me, since I will have to return to school and then find work in order to support our little family unit financially. I never wanted to do this alone. What lies ahead is a frightening road full of uncertainty, yet the alternative is more frightening to me. Besides, I trust my heart, and even in its pain, it has guided me true in the past: if not for being with exhb, I would not have my two beautiful children.

 

Life, sometimes, is very perplexing.

 

Indeed.

 

d.man:

your probably the first to stand up to him and say "enough is enough"

 

I would have to agree. His family works in such a bizarre, alien sort of way to me! His mother and father will tell him exactly how much tremendous potential he has, while in the next second expressing to him that he has obviously not expressed that potential to the fullest (ie by Marrying ME.) They sing themselves praises in front of him as well, and expect him to revere them in spite of their misguided (in my opinion) "help."

 

You took reponsibility and action now rather than in say, 15 years from now...You still have a lot of good times ahead of you! look in the mirror and be proud of yourself. It takes gutts to take hold of the future!

 

Thanks for the support and kind words. I've often had this thought myself: Looking into the future to myself sitting in a rocking chair, wondering what it was that caused my daughter to become an alcoholic, and why my son beats his girlfriend, yet remaining powerless in the face of such horrors. They say once you've found your strength, you will remember it. I truly hope that is the case for me, since as I replied to Curt just above, the road ahead is a frightening one. But I have to believe that it is true; that there is the famed 'light at the end of the tunnel.'

 

[EnigmaXOXO]

Besides, I trust my heart, and even in its pain, it has guided me true in the past: if not for being with exhb, I would not have my two beautiful children.

 

Beautifully said, Beth.

 

That's exactly how we must teach ourselves to over come adversity and disappointment in our lives. Only by finding the fortune within our misfortunes, the lesson hidden within the pain, are we are able to rise above it and grow.

 

Not only have you been blessed with two beautiful children, you have also lived through and survived one of life's most difficult and valuable lessons. And having learned something from it, not only will you be wiser, but you will discover an inner strength and renewed sense of confidence that you never imagined you had. Not only will you grow, but you will flourish.

 

No calm sea ever produced a good mariner.

 

Now that you have a renewed sense of awareness, take notice now of how things around you will seemingly fall into place. Take note of how help and support will come from people and places where you least expect it. It will seem almost as if the cosmos are spinning in reverse...for every bad experience you lived through, something positive will come along to make up for it. And all those things that seem so difficult and frightening to you now will eventually reveal themselves as blessings in disguise.

 

And you WILL find love again, this much you are guaranteed. Only the next time it will be better because you will attract that which you have become.

 

Can't explain it...never could. I imagine that if there are such things as "fate" and "destiny," then this is how its all suppose to work. Perhaps one day you'll be able to find a way to put it into words and explain it to *me*. Until then, I'm just content to sit back and enjoy the ride...

[2SidestoStories]

Thank you, Enigma. Thank you so much! Yours has been invaluable support throughout this time as well. If anything, knowing that you have gone through something similar has helped provide me with hope, which is something I certainly need right now.

 

And you WILL find love again, this much you are guaranteed. Only the next time it will be better because you will attract that which you have become.

 

Quite possibly when I least expect it, I presume. One never knows.

[2SidestoStories]

It's been a bit since I posted any sort of update, and since I've even been asked I figure I'll go ahead and give one.

 

Last Monday we had our first court appearance. It was specifically to address his threat of quitting his job/dropping the kids and I from his insurance coverage during the interim proceedings. The Thursday previous to this, late at night, he showed up here in shorts and bare feet to "share some insight" he had received from a Latvian Lady Penpal (sounds nice and fishy, therefore typical to me of his "interesting" choices.) He informed me that he had realized he had been being a complete jerk; he told me he understood why I had chosen to divorce him; he proposed that we attempt to be friends. Then, he asked me to consider requesting "joint custody" of the children, because he wanted to "guarantee that he would be able to see them." He went on a long-winded spiel about how anything that he has said that I have construed as a threat (just imagine the sarcasm dripping off the word as he said it) I should have known better than to perceive as such (!!!) He explained, too, that he was all too aware of his word choices, and that he had intended to ilicit certain responses, but that I "should know better than to take him at his word." He tried to instigate a conversation then about how I had committed the ultimate betrayal to his trust by divorcing him, but he was still willing to forgive ME for it. Oh yes, and he had also accepted that he was actually in control of himself while he was acting in such completely irrational ways. When I mentioned to him that I would consider joint custody only if he submitted himself to an independent psychological evaluation, and would submit to one myself if it made him more comfortable with the prospect, he flatly refused, saying "Those things are so subjective; what if they decide I'm a psycho?" <sigh> And to top it all off, he was sure that the medication he was on had nothing to do with his brand new outlook on life, because after all...HE HAD STOPPED TAKING IT AS IT HAD BEEN PRESCRIBED TO HIM!!!!(I am trying very hard at this moment to simply state things as he said them to me without interjecting my opinions of what was said.) I abruptly cut him off at this point, saying that I would need time to consider all of what he had said, but that it was late, and I wanted to get to bed. I did, however, emphasize to him that even if I were to ask for sole custody, if he wanted to be involved in the children's lives, I did want that to happen for their sake.

 

I think the most notable things that happened in the hearing were that 1.) he refused to sign a waiver that would allow the court to appoint a mediator to us at no additional charge to either he or I, based upon the excuse of "his work having a problem with the waiver." The waiver is a confidentiality waiver, and it is somewhat disconcerting, but the purpose of it is to allow for a switch in mediators should the need arise; i.e. if we were working with a specific mediator and he/she could not help us reach a reasonable agreement, the courts could appoint a new mediator to become familiar with our sessions and then come in to try to help from there. He said he would check with work to find out whether this could be a problem for him, and would get back to my lawyer and I with his answer ASAP. 2.) I agreed upon an interim visitation schedule with him that has the kids going to visit at his parents' house (where he's STILL staying...hasn't gotten himself a place as yet, but was trying to argue with the Hearing Officer that he thought my projected costs were unreasonable, when he was trying to set aside a chunk of money for an apartment that cost an additional 25% more than the mortgage payment! Hmmm....something amiss with the "REASONABLE" argument! The hearing officer simply said, "You think that it's unreasonable for your wife and your two children to remain where they are for the same amount of money that they have been paying, whereas you wish to spend 25% additionally for just yourself? I fail to see how you can use the term "reasonable" to justify your argument, sir." ) Anyway...the interim visitation is that Wednesday evenings for 2.5 hours, and Sunday afternoons for 4 hours, I will drop the children off at his parents' house, and we will communicate via telephone to coordinate the drop-off and pick-up. Also relevant to note was that Monday afternoon, he called me in a most friendly manner, explaining that he did not want to seem like a complete jerk, and was calling to try to make some amends of some sort. At this point, he commented that he really was hoping I had considered the possibility of friendship, because, (I kid you not, this is exactly how he said it...) "You're going to be the one who introduces me to my next girlfriend!" my response to this was a great deal of blinking followed by an abrupt end to the phone chat

 

Last Wednesday, I was pretty much a wreck. The entire day shot by without me being able to tell you what happened to the hours. The phone call occurred, and I drove over to drop the children off, trying to do as much deep-breathing as I could. I'm certainly not one to hide my emotions well, so he knew that I was quite anxious. He seemed quite confused as to why I was so upset and wanted to discuss it, but I said, "I don't want to infringe upon your visitation time with the children, so perhaps we can discuss this after I have picked them up." He nodded, seeming genuinely concerned. For all I know, he very well may have been. But that surely does not give ME any comfort. As I was leaving, he stopped me and for all intents and purposes asked me to take him back.

 

If I could have been a comic book character at this point, I would have been one of those stick figure sorts with a gigantic word bubble over my head, and the word bubble would have contained a single, gigantic, bold-typed, exaggerated exclamation point. It absolutely floored me. I had to excuse myself and leave very quickly. When I picked the children up, I did explain to him that the trust I had once had in him had been utterly destroyed, and that I was not willing to put myself in a place to be hurt by him again. Plain and simple, I thought. No need to mince words and rhetoric.

 

What bothers me the very most is this: ever since he was served divorce papers, he's been on his very best behavior. To discredit me? Perhaps. To "prove" that he's not actually unwell? Maybe. And I can admit the possibility that he may be being genuine. However, considering everything as a whole, rather than taking this bit by bit, I just can't believe that there is anything other than tactical maneuvers going on here. I can learn to be civil with him, and even business-like in terms of the children. However, the damage has definitely been done, and the fact remains that even if I am viewed as "the bad guy," I still believe that my choice is the right one.

 

Thus it stands. Today, I'm in a place where whatever he does or says comes as no shock to me, and frankly I'm to the point where it doesn't bother me nearly as much. Who knows what tomorrow brings? (Well, another visitation, anyway)

[moimeme]

You're going to be the one who introduces me to my next girlfriend

 

Take heart. He might be right. I introduced my ex-husband to his current partner!

 

Beth, have you fully grieved the loss of this relationship yet?