How to tolerate society?

[Nikki Sahagin]

Hi everybody. I am 19 years old (as I tend to reiterate in many of my posts) but I am already so dissilusioned, so cynical and so weary of the world about me. There are so many things in society that are odds with who I am as a person and jar with me then I end up feeling isolated and as though I belong in another era or another century. I think whereas in the past, generations had wars which although horrible, brought people together and gave a sense of collectivism and real respect and love for the homeland, in our current generation, there is nothing worth fighting for. Everyone as a generalisation is so individual, so seperate, so selfish - most people don't really care for anyone or anything else.

 

I also hate how society seems to reward and encourage bad behaviour. Over here in England, you can use the word bitch in a derogatory context (not even when talking about a female dog) before the watershed without cencors. I worry children will grow up thinking it's okay to just run around calling girls and women bitches as though it has no hurtful connotations. So you can say bitch...and yet you can't say ****...even though **** has NO personal hurtful value. Music videos are all about ho's, promiscuity, pimps, drug abuse, alcohol and complete lack of respect. I LOVE hip hop and rap beats but I can barely listen to the lyrical content because it is to women like black people listening to a CD by Hitler - completely misogynist and self-hating. Listening to it as a woman makes me feel so hated and dirty

 

Another gripe I have in England is the work hours. This has become a gripe for me as i've watched my father and my boyfriend struggle endlessly with work. Because the job market has plummetted, they both work EVERY DAY NOW under the threat of being sacked. My boyfriend was told if he didn't start working weekends, he would be sacked. He can't risk looking and not finding a new job if he quits, so he has to be what I consider a paid slave. He works every day for MINIMUM WAGE unless he makes commission, and the exploitation in a supposedly advanced society disgusts me. It has made me not really want a 9-5. I've decided money isn't that important to me. I'd rather my FREEDOM and not to feel obligated to a large company who work you to death and then give you a nothing of a pension when you're old. I hate societys view that people are only useful when they are young and you can make money out of them. Then when they are old, you throw them to one side. After all they are too old and ill to fight back aren't they?

 

Then there's crime. Where I live in London even the most educated and intellectual people have at least dabbled with drugs. I have a hard view on drugs. I've never tried any and I think the number of people that have is shocking and quite frankly, disgusting. A lot of areas nearby me are so unsafe (knifes) and people on nights out are often stabbed (3 in one night once outside a club) and no-one even seems to bat an eyelid.

 

I feel I have become a very judgemental person. I see people doing things that I would never do and it makes me hate society and people. I don't even see myself as belonging because I don't do what they do. Not to say I am above people, but I do have self-respect and self-control, and a lot of people don't seem to.

 

What do you hate about your society? And how do you tolerate it?

[Geishawhelk]

Did you see the Jonathan Ross show last night?

He had Stephen Fry on.

He's just finished filming a series where he hit every single one of the American States and met a huge slice and cross-section American citizens.

 

A phrase often used in America is "Ooonly in America!" and it's used in an innovative, delighted, pleasantly surprised way. It infers that Americans are open to new and unusal things, ready to throw their hand in and be amazed by new discoveries.

 

Conversely, hear someone in the UK say -

Only in the UK!" and it's likely to be associated with something depressing, predictably gloomy, demoralising and negative.

 

We're big on negativity here in the UK.

 

We focus on the downturn. Economists are rubbing their hands in glee discussing the recession on television and through the media as if it were something exciting and challenging!

Our papers are full of mindless, insane violence and stupidity.

I've yet to see a headline that makes me smile in gladness and pride to be a Brit.

Even "Phew! What a scorcher!" implies the brilliantly sunny weather is to be tolerated rather than enjoyed.

 

Doom Gloom and despondency appears to be the order of the day.....

 

All I can suggest is mindful effort to keep smiling.

Most smiles are started by other smiles.

 

And my Philosophy used to be:

 

"I get up in the morning and consider:

Do I have something to be happy about?

Do I have something to be miserable about?

 

If the answer is 'No' to both, I figure it's better to be happy for no reason, than miserable for no reason".

 

I've now reduced this to -

 

"I am Sooooo Happy! How on earth could I be otherwise?"

 

Laugh, and the world laughs with you.

Cry - and the bills seem twice as dear.

[Taramere]

A phrase often used in America is "Ooonly in America!" and it's used in an innovative, delighted, pleasantly surprised way. It infers that Americans are open to new and unusal things, ready to throw their hand in and be amazed by new discoveries.

 

Conversely, hear someone in the UK say -

Only in the UK!" and it's likely to be associated with something depressing, predictably gloomy, demoralising and negative.

 

We're big on negativity here in the UK.

 

Haha. That's true. I was in the US during the recent inauguration, and watched the US media coverage with some interest. One programme paid particular attention to the handover and the relationship between the incoming family and the outgoing one. Over footage of Michelle Obama giving Laura Bush what looked like a cake, a pleased sounding commentary noted how civilised America is in comparison to many other countries.

 

Here in the UK, the media wouldn't be interested in a civilised exchange between incoming PM and outgoing one. That isn't news; it's simply what you'd expect. Polite behaviour between high standing politicians when they're not directly engaged in conflict (eg during political debate).

 

The media is far more likely to home in on any examples of politicians behaving like louts. How often did we see that footage, several years back, of Prescott getting into fisticuffs with that egg-thrower?

 

I've yet to see a headline that makes me smile in gladness and pride to be a Brit. Even "Phew! What a scorcher!" implies the brilliantly sunny weather is to be tolerated rather than enjoyed.

 

Doom Gloom and despondency appears to be the order of the day.....

 

 

This is what I like about being British. While I admire American positivity to a certain extent, and can certainly see the merits in it, it's easy to feel overdosed on some of it and start to see it as a little forced and OTT. Over to Shirley Manson...

 

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=p7s9L5QbEW4

[wuggle]

When I was younger I think I often felt like you do now. Looking round at the world and thinking there was so much wrong with it, there was so much suffering and unfairness in the world, what was the point of it all ? I won't try to argue against any of what you have said, there is violence, unfairness, isolation, a lack of caring, selfishness and everything else you mention. But, and heres the thing for me...

 

As I have grown older I have come to a level of acceptance of things, not because they are ok, but because they are getting better...

 

Let me expand as that might seem crass if I don't. 2000 years ago, life expectancy was probably about 35, most people were starving, most had no possesions, many were slaves, subject to rape, torture, murder etc on a daily basis. 1000 years ago it wasn't generally much better, there was more food around as people had taken to farming etc. several hundred years ago writing and education kicked in a bit more and people started to ask bigger questions. 100 years ago we were still treating women, and other races as inferior, still starving people, but many things had improved. Generally there was more food, education, less murder etc.

 

Look at where we are now, yes there is still food problems in the world. But we have added to that in the west now by having too much cheap food. We are as societies instigating laws to protect women, children, workers etc that would have been unthinkable 50 years ago. We have lots less crime, murder, rape , etc than any time in our past, life expectancy is now approaching 100 (in the west anyway)

 

If you look at things objectively they really are improving at a staggering rate (this often brings in other problems but they are dealt with, life will always be about ups and downs). If you take the big picture as humans we really are evolving as a species at a fantastic rate. in 200 years where will we be, in 2000 ?

 

IMO we are all here to try to evolve. Evolve ourselves as individuals, and society and humanity as a whole.

 

Yes there are still problems in the world, but things really are getting better. The issue IMO is what can we as individuals do to make things better, I am quite happy to spend a lifetime looking for the answer to the questions "why am I here", "what is it I should be doing" and never getting the answer. I will not be happy if I give up. Hopefully I will be able to look back on my life and say "at least I tried to make things better", the more people that at least ask these questions of themselves the better, it will counteract those with just selfish thoughts.

 

Look out the window, things really are getting better, honest. What can you do to make them better still ??

[Ronni_W]

And how do you tolerate it?

The line from a Depeche Mode song, "I will have faith in Man, that is hard to understand," basically describes how I stay sane* and optimistic despite the seeming chaos, greed and self-obsession all around us.

 

For me, it is a decision to believe in the basic good of the Universe, and to (try to) see any and all signs to the contrary as being just an illusion of my mind. Sometimes that is difficult to do, of course. The book, 'Ruling Your World' by Sakyong Mipham does a good job of helping to gain this type of perspective.

 

Nikki, I honestly believe there ARE things worth fighting for -- like courage, wisdom, compassion, etc. At least, those are my worthwhile causes.

Maybe it's a matter of choosing what feels most important to your own heart, and then being an advocate for that?

 

Maybe we have to be saying, "Okay, in my view the world sucks. Now what do I want to do about it? What can I do in my tiny corner, to improve it?" Or maybe not that we have to be thinking along those lines as much as that is just a different choice to feeling despairing and as if all hope is lost?

 

*Well, as sane as I can get, at any rate . I've also spent most of my life feeling "alien" -- and have come to conclusion that I actually belong on Arcturus. Or at least, it is ALSO one of my home planets...and who is to say not?

Point is, it is also okay to just do what you gotta do and believe what you gotta believe so that YOU can stay sane and optimistic, if that is your desire.

 

Hugs. You have been heard and understood. We are living through a time of tough choices and difficult decisions.

[Ariadne]

What do you hate about your society? And how do you tolerate it?

 

That it enslaves people. It trains them since they are a couple years old making it mandatory for kids to spend the day in school and never miss, then work 99% of your adult life until you die.

 

People are not free to do what they want with their time.

 

People should work less hours but are being made into slaves and they don't even notice it, like you did at 19.

 

The only problem is that society doesn't want you to not work of course, making it very hard for you to make a living if you don't participate in the rat race.

[Trialbyfire]

Each person is a part of society. It's up to you if you want to embrace it "as is" or you choose to do something about it.

 

This doesn't mean that a person can necessarily make wholesale changes but each person can contribute to the positive, rather than get sucked into the vampiric nature of the negative.

[fral945]

I used to think more negatively when I was younger. I don't really have much true hate in me anymore. The one exception is that I hate that we live in a society that is setup to reward greed.

 

But I have also come to the realization that people are inherently selfish/greedy and insatiable. Look at little kids as an example. The first thing they learn to say after mom and dad is "gimme" and "more". Think about little kids who get toys for Christmas. They like new toys for a while until they see a new bigger, better one. They are never happy with what they have.

 

It's built into us to be selfish and want more, and that is why our society is set up on greed. It exploits one of our natural desires. And I think of the negative consequences when that is taken to excess (i.e., excessive capitalism), like I think is being done now. Only through societal/family/religious influence and teaching do we learn that we sometimes need to quell that desire for more and that desire to only care about what is best for us.

[Taramere]

But I have also come to the realization that people are inherently selfish/greedy and insatiable. Look at little kids as an example. The first thing they learn to say after mom and dad is "gimme" and "more". Think about little kids who get toys for Christmas. They like new toys for a while until they see a new bigger, better one. They are never happy with what they have.

 

Short attention span. When I watch my niece and nephew opening presents on special occasion days, it boggles my mind how they spend about 2 seconds on each present, then immediately look around for the next thing. Until I remember that as a kid I was pretty similar....racing through the present opening stage, then prioritising them. Usually the most expensive presents were prioritised below the things that could capture my imagination.

 

I think most children are like that. A cheap cuddly toy can become more meaningful than some pricey high tech game if you help them to weave a story around it. My niece can be occupied for hours with the task of helping a little doll to meet and socialise with the other toys, and figure out how to find its place in amongst them all. And that taps into the important stuff for her. Expensive, impressive toys don't necessarily achieve that for a child...just as expensive, impressive toys for adults don't necessarily meet that adult's real needs. Sometimes all they really do is inflame the ego and kill the imagination.

[fral945]

I think most children are like that. A cheap cuddly toy can become more meaningful than some pricey high tech game if you help them to weave a story around it. My niece can be occupied for hours with the task of helping a little doll to meet and socialise with the other toys, and figure out how to find its place in amongst them all. And that taps into the important stuff for her. Expensive, impressive toys don't necessarily achieve that for a child...just as expensive, impressive toys for adults don't necessarily meet that adult's real needs.

 

I agree, but you taught her to be grateful and appreciative, and created more meaning in a particular toy. Those qualities are not ingrained. The selfishness and insatiability are there without your influence or anyone else's. A child has no boundaries or limits to their selfishness and insatiability until parents, relatives, etc like yourself establish them.

 

I think this carries over into adulthood for many people.

[cali2009]

I have to say I agree with a lot of what you are saying Nikki.

 

I don't think its just a question of being negative or positive. To me it feels like we have sacrifised a lot to get our expensive material possesions. We have lost a lot of human contact. And you are right about working too, the generations before us didnt work as long hours as we do. They had less luxury items but they were able to own a home without being in debt forever.

 

I also agree there is very little respect for other people in western societies. I have lived in Asia for almost 2 years and its so much more pleasent in everyday life, because people are really focused on being polite and compassionate, of course they have their own problems too.

 

Well in the end, you dont have to stay in the UK if you dont like it, get out and travel and see the world.

[Trialbyfire]

I also agree there is very little respect for other people in western societies. I have lived in Asia for almost 2 years and its so much more pleasent in everyday life, because people are really focused on being polite and compassionate, of course they have their own problems too.

I have some close asian friends and have gotten to know some of their parents and grandparents.

 

The politeness is surface. It's all about face.

[cali2009]

I have some close asian friends and have gotten to know some of their parents and grandparents.

 

The politeness is surface. It's all about face.

 

thats a bit cynical, but even if its true, its still less stressfull.

[Isolde]

A good place to start is to learn some history--why things happened the way they did, why some things still can't be explained.

 

You might find you end up having more empathy, in the sense of understanding, not in the sense of sympathizing with people's wrongdoings.

 

Most of the world is composed of fairly decent people and we are all pretty much in the same boat. Society is everyone and no one. Don't gripe against society, gripe against individual things that you see wrong with, things that can perhaps be changed.

 

I agree with you about the economy/people being forced to work inhuman hours. It doesn't make sense at all--at some point productivity is compromised and everyone suffers. I think most everyone should work 50 hours a week and not more. I know it sounds nuts, but it would force people to really focus on their work while they're there.

[Trialbyfire]

thats a bit cynical, but even if its true, its still less stressfull.

It's not cynical. It's true. You'll find many asians will openly agree with this.

 

It's a fascinating culture that reveres wisdom, experience and heroes. The drive towards personal achievements is phenomenal. Everyone is expected to achieve...everything, including career, financial success, intelligence, artistry/creative talents AND athletic ability. Albeit tough on their kids, they'll do anything for them.

 

As for compassion, there isn't always room for it because face and personal/family honour are far, far more important.

[sb129]

 

Well in the end, you dont have to stay in the UK if you dont like it, get out and travel and see the world.

 

While I looooved much of what London has to offer, my H and I moved away from there in August 2008, and haven't looked back.

 

You may find yourself to be less judgemental when you have lived a little more.

 

Just because people do things that you yourself would never do doesn't necessarily make them less of a person. There are many many stories out there and people have different driving forces behind them.

 

Not that that excuses some of the appalling anti-social behaviour that I too have witnessed (not only in London but worldwide) but I think half the problem is nobody actually takes time to address the root causes of the problems- some of which could be dealt with with more kindness and understanding rather than anger, intolerance and blame.

[Nikki Sahagin]

But I think there is ALWAYS an excuse. I mean in some instances, I see NO way of excusing someones behaviour. Peodophilia? Gang-rape? I see absolutely NO excuse for such behaviour. But yet society enables you to make excuses i.e. those boys gang-raped that woman because they don't have strong father figures. But yet you'll bet they have mothers don't they? Or a grandma? Or baby sisters? And how would they react if someone did to them what they did to that women? Yet society will allow you to say something like, "they didn't have a strong father figure, so they don't know how it is to treat women". Yet I know many men without father figures (my dad for one) who grew up to be one the most hard-working and committed to his marriage men that I know. I think society makes it easy to gloss over ugly human truths by latching onto an issue i.e. mothers aren't bringing there kids up properly or teachers aren't doing there job. In a lot of cases - people are doing their best. At some point the individual must take stock of their own actions without blaming their pasts.

[Woggle]

If you don't like certain music just don't listen to it. What you find offensive other people enjoy and that is the beauty of variety.

 

I agree about the work and I hope at least in America that the new leadership will work on restoring the 40 hour week.

 

I understand you being concerned about violent crime but if people want to do drugs on their time without hurting anybody else why is that your concern? Since the ancient days people have been drugging themselves and it will never change so let people live thier lives.

[Eve]

What do you hate about your society? And how do you tolerate it?

 

I tend to be very tolerant but I understand that I have to factor in that my tolerance is heavily influenced by the fact that I now live in an area with low crime, excellent schools and there is plenty to do whether you are an adult or a child!

 

... but thinking back to when I lived in an area which was decidedly 'dodgy' I did make some good friends in amongst what I can only describe as social deprivation. The main thing which I took away from this experience was that the constraints being experienced by myself and others around me were NOT indicative of who we really were. I have since learned to take things on an individual by individual basis, otherwise I think that it is too easy to become jaded and prone to making sweeping statements/forming stereotypes.

 

Things I hate.. I tend to think of 'hate' as a very strong word and can say that I dont really hate anything about society at this present time. If I did I would do some soul searching. You see, I am the type to get involved in ****. So, for example, if I did not like something about the young people near me I would actively get involved in a youth club or something in order to help out. I suppose I still believe in community and sharing burdens etc rather than demonising others. Also people are very interesting up close. If the young people were dangerous, without question, I would move. There is only so much a person can do.

 

So my simple advice is to move.

 

I would say that you will still encounter the things which you dislike/hate though because people are intrinsically the same no matter where they live or their place in society. I find that even now although everything looks rosy I would not trust my neighbours more than my neighbours from when I lived in a dodgy area.

 

Probably the best place to move would be Sweden, though I hear that it is quite boring after a while.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[nana yaw II]

Hi everybody. I am 19 years old (as I tend to reiterate in many of my posts) but I am already so dissilusioned, so cynical and so weary of the world about me. There are so many things in society that are odds with who I am as a person and jar with me then I end up feeling isolated and as though I belong in another era or another century. I think whereas in the past, generations had wars which although horrible, brought people together and gave a sense of collectivism and real respect and love for the homeland, in our current generation, there is nothing worth fighting for. Everyone as a generalisation is so individual, so seperate, so selfish - most people don't really care for anyone or anything else.

 

I also hate how society seems to reward and encourage bad behaviour. Over here in England, you can use the word bitch in a derogatory context (not even when talking about a female dog) before the watershed without cencors. I worry children will grow up thinking it's okay to just run around calling girls and women bitches as though it has no hurtful connotations. So you can say bitch...and yet you can't say ****...even though **** has NO personal hurtful value. Music videos are all about ho's, promiscuity, pimps, drug abuse, alcohol and complete lack of respect. I LOVE hip hop and rap beats but I can barely listen to the lyrical content because it is to women like black people listening to a CD by Hitler - completely misogynist and self-hating. Listening to it as a woman makes me feel so hated and dirty

 

Another gripe I have in England is the work hours. This has become a gripe for me as i've watched my father and my boyfriend struggle endlessly with work. Because the job market has plummetted, they both work EVERY DAY NOW under the threat of being sacked. My boyfriend was told if he didn't start working weekends, he would be sacked. He can't risk looking and not finding a new job if he quits, so he has to be what I consider a paid slave. He works every day for MINIMUM WAGE unless he makes commission, and the exploitation in a supposedly advanced society disgusts me. It has made me not really want a 9-5. I've decided money isn't that important to me. I'd rather my FREEDOM and not to feel obligated to a large company who work you to death and then give you a nothing of a pension when you're old. I hate societys view that people are only useful when they are young and you can make money out of them. Then when they are old, you throw them to one side. After all they are too old and ill to fight back aren't they?

 

Then there's crime. Where I live in London even the most educated and intellectual people have at least dabbled with drugs. I have a hard view on drugs. I've never tried any and I think the number of people that have is shocking and quite frankly, disgusting. A lot of areas nearby me are so unsafe (knifes) and people on nights out are often stabbed (3 in one night once outside a club) and no-one even seems to bat an eyelid.

 

I feel I have become a very judgemental person. I see people doing things that I would never do and it makes me hate society and people. I don't even see myself as belonging because I don't do what they do. Not to say I am above people, but I do have self-respect and self-control, and a lot of people don't seem to.

 

What do you hate about your society? And how do you tolerate it?

 

lol.. so what?

 

Not everybody has to adhere to your standards/morals, or anybody else's.

[Geishawhelk]

 

Another insightful post, with much to commend it, from Mr. I-Contradict-myself-all-the-time......

 

That there's a masterful contribution!

[nana yaw II]

Why is being contradictory wrong?

 

Nothing is black and white. Isn't that common knowledge?

[nana yaw II]

But I think there is ALWAYS an excuse. I mean in some instances, I see NO way of excusing someones behaviour. Peodophilia? Gang-rape? I see absolutely NO excuse for such behaviour. But yet society enables you to make excuses i.e. those boys gang-raped that woman because they don't have strong father figures. But yet you'll bet they have mothers don't they? Or a grandma? Or baby sisters? And how would they react if someone did to them what they did to that women? Yet society will allow you to say something like, "they didn't have a strong father figure, so they don't know how it is to treat women". Yet I know many men without father figures (my dad for one) who grew up to be one the most hard-working and committed to his marriage men that I know. I think society makes it easy to gloss over ugly human truths by latching onto an issue i.e. mothers aren't bringing there kids up properly or teachers aren't doing there job. In a lot of cases - people are doing their best. At some point the individual must take stock of their own actions without blaming their pasts.

 

lol...

 

life is tough. is this any new news?

 

people don't hurt others, but they do. if a person gets hurt innocently, the attacker has a right to do it.

[Geishawhelk]

being contradictory is not the same as something not being black and white.

 

First of all research and learn that.....

 

 

The big problem is that you are self-contradictory withing two or three posts, in one thread.....

Being contradictory to that degree, makes you indecisive, untrustworthy and ridiculous. Nobody takes you seriously if you self-contradict so often. You come across as someone who does not examine subjects in depth, and who has no lasting opinion on anything, therefore it makes your views and comments liable to not be valued.

Therefore, to write that one-liner, at the end of quoting the full post (why do that? You haven't highlighted any specific portion that you have responded to) after others have taken the time to digest and to comment at great length, makes your post somewhat useless and superfluous to the thread.

 

Back to topic.

[Geishawhelk]

lol...

 

people don't hurt others, but they do. if a person gets hurt innocently, the attacker has a right to do it.

 

case in point:

Dissect this post and explain yourself.

 

PEOPLE DON'T HURT OTHERS BUT THEY DO.

 

What's that supposed to mean?

 

IF A PERSON GETS HURT INNOCENTLY, THE ATTACKER HAS A RIGHT TO DO IT.

 

.....Pardon?