Does she know what she want's?

[lt72]

My wife of 10 years tells me on Thanksgiving night she wants to separate, she needs some space to see if she wants to continue our relationship. We have two kids (a 5 year old and a 4 year old) who we love very much, and agree their well being comes first. We both work, and have a nanny 5 day's a week.

 

Rewind 10 years. We marry and live footloose and fancy for 5 years.Then we mutually agree to bring children into the world. Five years after that, and we're two totally different people. We sweep issues under the rug and never fully resolve them, our communication has dwindled to the daily logistics of child rearing, our sex life has tanked, I don't want to go to counseling, she doesn't like the way I talk/ treat the kids, I'm rude to her family, she's walking on eggshells because she doesn't know what type of person she's gonna come home to, she's afraid to say no to me because of the mental abuse she'll get in return, and the list goes on. The irony of this, she's right on point with all of the above, and some.

 

This looks like a good case for her, right? Fast forward to the day after I agree to move into my sisters house up the block. I change my work schedule. I seek counseling to straighten up my selfish a**. I take a week off from work to move back in and reconnect with my children while she stays at a friends house to clear her head. I read self help books and start laying the tracks to rehabilitate myself, then our relationship. I journal every day since that awful night to look back and see how my life is progressing. I sole search to rule out any other faults of mine that may have gotten me into this mess in the first place. To this day, I'm better than I was yesterday, and I'll be better tomorrow. Rome wasn't built in a day, but heck, I want my wife back.

 

Now, what have I gotten in return? " I still don't know what I want. I'm not in love with you right now."

OK. what have you been doing for "yourself"? I send her a heartfelt e-mail because if I ask the questions in person, I'm pressuring her. Basically it asks, " has this time allowed you to see some forgiveness toward me, or is any healing going on?" I press the benefits of counseling to try and rekindle any qualities that first attracted her to me, among other support systems to try to get a sense of where her head is and what she wants to do. I have gotten very little back. She only talks to about 3 girlfriends, and when they ask her what's going on, what are you doing, she replies, I don't know.

I honestly don't believe, nor do the 3 friends she confides in, believe that there is another person in the picture, and when I asked her about it, she replied "that's not what this is about". I have no reason to doubt her, and give her the benefit of the doubt. But her reinventing of herself, reconnecting with old school friends, her girly weekends out leave me second guessing her commitment to raising two kids, with a husband by her side. She has agreed to counseling, only after I drew the line in the sand. We went to one session and are returning next week for another. It's a great start, but I still have some questions about her commitment. Am I holding on to empty promises? Am I pushing her away with my vigor to forget the past and focus in the future? My mental health is at it's limit. It's very hard to try and treat her like the person I want to be, almost like she's holding me back now. There's an 800 lb. gorilla in the room when were together, and I can't wait till Wednesday's session. Is two and a half months long enough to decide what you want in your life, or am I being unrealistic?

 

Confused & Anxious!!!

[Gunny376]

JHC! I had to get a freaking towel to wipe the "tears" off my computer screen.

 

First off, while I realize she's the mother of your children and your DW, you've got a seriously bad case of "oneittis" as in this is the only one woman in the world for you, or for that fact the only one woman in the world.

 

Not so!

 

Next is that years from now, you're come to the realization? That she's not the only person in the world with a VLSS, (Vaginal Life Support System)

 

Women? They know this already, but in their younger days, "its raining men" but its only later in life that they come to realize that this isn't so?

That while there's plenty of men ~ there's a shortage of good men.

 

Men? In their youth they think there's a shortage of women, only to find out later in life that this isn't true.

 

You just need to work on your "Game" in learning how to approach women, ~ its really just basic sales?

 

Meet and greet,

Qualify

Feature and benefit

Over-come objections

Close

 

Quit beating yourself up!

 

Its not the end of your life, its potentially the end of your marriage.

 

That's what relationships do! They have a beginning, a middle, and an end.

 

Ditto with jobs and careers! In both you'll probally have about five of them throughout the course of a 70-80 year life.

 

Learn, adapt, and over-come!

 

Quit being so fraking hard on yourself!

 

Give all that you can, do the best that you can, ~ and in the freaking end? That's all you can do!

[Nomad1]

IT 72 - Whatever you are doing is clearly not working. Time to do the opposite! Stop wanting to work on the relationship! Get a life! Move forward!

 

Many men come on here with similar scenario: wife wants space! Needs time off to think! They all assert at the beginning that there is no other third party involved! Generally, within 3 to 6 weeks, they say 'you guys were right! I found the evidence!'. Remember this IT72! You will change your perspective.

 

Better start thinking about No. 1. As my man Gunny said (the man is always right! He should be awarded an honorary doctorate for services to the LS community!) there are other fish in the sea....But fish and release for a while...you don't want to make the same mistake!

 

God luck

 

Nomad1

[lt72]

Although I realize there are other fish in the sea, and I do need to take care of myself, step back and let her sort her life out, but how does one balance that approach without shortchanging my duties as a father to my children? Should I let a schedule decide when and how we care for the kids? Now that she has agreed to counseling, should that be the only time I communicate with her about our relationship? Disregard all efforts to bring us together for now and focus on the kids? Your advice is laudable, but it's not that black and white!

[Geishawhelk]

Actually, it is.

You wrote it:

 

She only talks to about 3 girlfriends, and when they ask her what's going on, what are you doing, she replies, I don't know.

Friends know everything about each other. If they don't know about her, it means she's hiding something from them too...

 

I honestly don't believe, nor do the 3 friends she confides in, believe that there is another person in the picture, and when I asked her about it, she replied "that's not what this is about".

 

Whammo!! Red Flag right there.

 

If there was no other man, she would have said - "No. There is no other man, this is about you and me."

 

For "This is not what this is about" read - "Yes, there is, but I don't want to involve that as a discussion topic, because it weakens my position all round. I want to keep the upper hand for as long as I can."

 

You, my friend, are history.

Look to your kids, your welfare and you.

She is out of the picture as far as a relationship goes.

[PWSX3]

You have two kids & she has been there mom and now she is getting a chance to go out & have fun and it is new & exciting for her.

 

I am one to work on a relationship as long as you can, but it all starts with "YOU"!!!! Like you said it doesn't happen overnight & so changes won't happen overnight either.

 

You are doing a few changes & looking for approval (been there done that), a reward from her, do the changes for you & don't worry what she thinks. Changes take time even if you think you have them mastered and like I said; they should be for you & when it is time she will notice & if she doesn't notice the person in your next relationship will...Actions speak a lot louder then words.

 

I am in the same boat as you, I have looked at myself & see things I needed to work on so I'm doing it and that is all you can do. In my boundaries class this week they said something interesting; you only have control of what is inside your skin, outside your skin you have no control....

 

Do the counseling & see what happens, if she gets interested in working on the marriage then you know her heart is in it, if she doesn't then you know it is time to start watching your back & taking care of the kids.

 

I would not push any relationship stuff, just do counseling & whatever they suggest you do & the rest of the time work on you...

[lt72]

That is some tough advise to digest Geishawkelk. I hope your wrong. It's premature to assume that she's playing with other people's emotions and lying to the ones who are looking out for our best interest. Getting the upper hand may work in a chess game, but 10 years and two children later should warrant a little more foresight about the future and health of her family. Bottom line, it's not her style. Her agreeing to go to therapy backs my theory. An interesting opinion from a female friend's point of view paint's the picture of her going to therapy translates to feeling's deep inside that need to be harbored. If there's no concession to therapy, then her mind's been made up. Her friends are my friends, and would like nothing more than to see us together. My feeling now is therapy is our last hope for understanding.

 

An update to this is a schedule has been agreeded upon to divide our time with the kid's. One week each @ the house while the other stay's away. It is another line drawn in the sand this morning. It's a crass move on my part but like i said originally, my mental health is at it's limits. This back's PWSX3's advice; pull back and continue with your way's. She will see the light and realize whatever she's doing now is temporary, and cannot stand time!

[imagine]

I think that your wife has tanked on you. Read the articles at Marriagebuilders.com. Come back asap.

[Geishawhelk]

let me just note something here.

Something's triggered her desire to end things.

She has probably been feeling dissatisfied with the relatiuonship for some time, and has tolerated it, but something inside her has slowly built up to a level that she can no longer put up with stuff.

 

These things do not just happen overnight.

And it's likely that she would have gone on putting up with it (like I did for 22 years) for a while longer.

Something happened.

Something triggered her valve to release the pressure.

I would suspect that in all likelyhood, an attraction towards another man has set this off.

Even if she is not physically, actively in an affair with another man - something has shown her the greener grass over there.

Now, in all fairness, she may well have pre-empted tragedy and stopped herself from having a fling in good time.

If so, bloody good job and all credit to her.

But please, consider that somewhere, there's a guy that provided a catalyst for the precipitation of this separation.

 

Inspite of all your efforts to better yourself, and to improve who you are, this has not had the desired effect. Why?

Because she's had a vision of what life could be like elsewhere.

 

I'd ask her again.

Is there, or has there been a guy, or the possibility of a guy in the wings?

[Sands_of_time]

LT-I empathize with your situation, wholeheartedly. It must be terrible to be going through this. You were working on yourself--how can she not see that?

 

I am 3 months into your same journey so I can relate to where you are right now.

 

The advice from the previous posters is more than likely spot on (I know that's going to be tough to digest right now). The advice they are giving you is "end advice." As in, they've seen a similar story to yours and they know the probability in how this game is going to be played out so they are trying to show you the best way out.

 

It's hard to comprehend the "end advice" right now because what you are about to embark on is going to happen in stages. There is a good possibility that you'll experience these in no particular order and will flip flop between them over time:

 

Denial (this isn't happening to me!)

Anger (why is this happening to me?)

Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)

Depression (I don't care anymore)

Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)

 

I hope your story has a happy ending. In the meantime, strap yourself in because this could get quite intense. Keep posting....

[PWSX3]

something I have learned in my situation it is really hard for the person that left to see any changes in the person that was left. For me the stbxw still talks in the past, she still sees me as the person in the past even though she will notice little things that are changing and comment on them but go right back to the past.

 

For me being married 27 years & not having a good relationship for the last 6-8 years I can see she even back then when we started going to counseling she didn't put 100% into the marriage and blamed me for everything, and as long as she blamed me & didn't take any responsibility for her part then things would never change.

 

Both parties need to take responsibility & own up to there part & work on it, then you can work on the marriage.....

 

I feel once you start moving out it is really hard to get back together just because the feeling of freedom is so strong & then by the time you realize it isn't all that it is to late the damage has been done.

[steveraves]

For a second while reading your post I thought you were married to my wife.

 

Just curious is she between the ages of 35 - 40?

 

I don't necessarily believe your wife has found another guy. Like the person above mentioned though she's in this fantasy world where she thinks life is greener on the other side of the fence.

 

It's good that she's chosen to go to counciling, just make sure that it's productive. Sometimes a person can be there but put in no effort which won't provide results.

 

I also think you've done right by backing off, begging won't get you anywhere.

 

I've been separated since April. My wife will be 37 this February. She attended a medical night school being around a lot of younger people with a lot less responsibilities as her. When we separated I suspect approaching 40 bothered her, and being around people who were several years younger than her gave her an unrealistic view of her life. All I ever heard about was how much fun she wanted to have, it was all fun, fun, fun. She could never have an adult conversation, rarely saw the kids.

 

I improved my life, my kids lives by finding a good church. She hasn't changed much. I finally gave up and filed for divorce in December and she was served on the 12 Jan. It's not the preferred way I would've wanted things to turn out, but my patience has worn, and I want custody of the kids... At the very least residential custody..

 

Good luck to you.. Just make sure the counciling produces results and it's not just for show.

[lt72]

Duly noted Geish. Every action triggers a reaction, and her reaction may have been to another man. I just don't know. But basing my acknowledgment on the last 5 years or so, I/ we failed to address fundamental problems in our relationship, problems from within, not infidelity problems. So to dwell on what I don't know, would be self defeating at this stage, no? I can only respond to what I know for sure. I'm probably gravitating toward the acceptance stage right now with this mornings schedule agreed upon. I'm hedging on counseling to get her mind out of the past, PW. Can I expect her to dive into this 100% on the first meeting? Can a woman forget her past experiences,or do they see divorce as more comforting than rebuilding?

[GirlNextDoor11]

IT72...well first let me say I'm sorry that your having to go through this, its not a situation I would want anyone to have to deal with.

 

Let me say that no I have never been married but I was in a Serious Relationship for 6 years with a man I did plan to marry. I was in your wifes shoes about 5 1/2 years into the relationship. I never did cheat on him, but the thoughts did cross my mind. (even though i was never that type of person, things are different now of course but thats another story) Thats when I started pulling away from him. I started going out with a few friends of mine more often then usual and started seeing what other men were out there not intentionally though. As I said I never cheated on him but I did love the attention I was recieving from the men I would meet. The flirtation and invitations to dinner, and other things made me start seeing what was missing in my relationship. I decided to tell him we needed a break for awhile while I figured out what it is I wanted.

 

During this break he also did everything he could to make himself a better person for me. He read books, went to individual counseling sessions, and tried daily to reassure me that he was bettering himself. And the way he treated me was in the past and all he wanted was to move into the future. But the same as your wife I still didn't know what I wanted and told him I didn't know many times. I also told even my bestest friend I didn't know what I wanted. So even though they are the best of friends they still don't always know. It was a battle I was struggling with myself.

 

Unfortunatly it was too late....I had seen as people are saying "the greener grass on the other side." I realized I was having more fun and could open up more to new people then I could with him. And even though I never had any type of physical relationship with another man it still made me see what I was missing in my relationship. And 6 months after seperating from living together I ended it and moved on. He is one of my best friends now but unfortunatly once I saw what I could have and wasn't getting, I had to move on.

 

I wasn't intending to tell this whole story, but since your wife doesn't seem to be giving you much information I thought I would give you one idea of someone who was in her shoes at one point in her life. So you maybe could see some other opinions.

 

Good luck with it all and I hope for you that it doesn't end in the same way mine did!

[PWSX3]

Let me say that no I have never been married but I was in a Serious Relationship for 6 years with a man I did plan to marry. I was in your wifes shoes about 5 1/2 years into the relationship. I never did cheat on him, but the thoughts did cross my mind. (even though i was never that type of person, things are different now of course but thats another story) Thats when I started pulling away from him. I started going out with a few friends of mine more often then usual and started seeing what other men were out there not intentionally though. As I said I never cheated on him but I did love the attention I was recieving from the men I would meet. The flirtation and invitations to dinner, and other things made me start seeing what was missing in my relationship. I decided to tell him we needed a break for awhile while I figured out what it is I wanted.

 

During this break he also did everything he could to make himself a better person for me. He read books, went to individual counseling sessions, and tried daily to reassure me that he was bettering himself. And the way he treated me was in the past and all he wanted was to move into the future. But the same as your wife I still didn't know what I wanted and told him I didn't know many times. I also told even my bestest friend I didn't know what I wanted. So even though they are the best of friends they still don't always know. It was a battle I was struggling with myself.

 

Unfortunatly it was too late....I had seen as people are saying "the greener grass on the other side." I realized I was having more fun and could open up more to new people then I could with him.

So for you was the grass greener on the other side or is it just different?

 

I feel sooner or later a lot of times things will go back to what they were if we don't keep trying to better ourselves, or learning new things & did you just get stuck in a rut and with all the new things you were doing helped you get out of that rut????

[You'reasian]

once I saw what I could have and wasn't getting, I had to move on.

 

This is a theme that any man serious about relationships, should thoroughly understand.

[GirlNextDoor11]

So for you was the grass greener on the other side or is it just different?

 

I feel sooner or later a lot of times things will go back to what they were if we don't keep trying to better ourselves, or learning new things & did you just get stuck in a rut and with all the new things you were doing helped you get out of that rut????

 

 

Well yes actually the grass was greener....I enjoyed my life alot more without him. I didn't get into a relationship for quite awhile after though. But even before that I did give him another chance about 2 years later, I figured if he really said he was changing for the better back when we first split then it should have been still better 2 years later. NOPE I couldn't have been more wrong. He had actually gotten worse, and had stop his counseling the minute we offically broke up.

[GirlNextDoor11]

This is a theme that any man serious about relationships' date=' should thoroughly understand.[/quote']

 

 

you"reasian... it works both ways! I never got the emtional support I needed in anything. Such as work, or also I was a coach for a local youth team and I was always put down for that, saying it was a waste of time and the only reason I was there was to get attention. But sometimes when your not getting the "right" kind of attention at home you will look for it other places.

 

there were several other things I wasn't getting either, the physical attention lacked as well. I have an extremely high sex drive and he was always too tired or pissed off at something to not want it.

[You'reasian]

you'reasian... it works both ways! I never got the emtional support I needed in anything. Such as work, or also I was a coach for a local youth team and I was always put down for that, saying it was a waste of time and the only reason I was there was to get attention. But sometimes when your not getting the "right" kind of attention at home you will look for it other places.

 

there were several other things I wasn't getting either, the physical attention lacked as well. I have an extremely high sex drive and he was always too tired or pissed off at something to not want it.

 

Sorry to hear that. Maybe the two of you were ultimately incompatible?

 

The point I was making was that its a good idea to understand the kinds of things that a woman wants - both what she says she wants AND what she doesn't say she wants, but through interest and actions wants.

 

I have a high sex drive too, so I completely understand where you are coming from and I like to create that kind of attention at home too .

 

Its hard to find women who appreciate that.

[PWSX3]

Well yes actually the grass was greener....I enjoyed my life alot more without him. I didn't get into a relationship for quite awhile after though. But even before that I did give him another chance about 2 years later, I figured if he really said he was changing for the better back when we first split then it should have been still better 2 years later. NOPE I couldn't have been more wrong. He had actually gotten worse, and had stop his counseling the minute we officially broke up.

That's what I'm saying; changes take time & if you really change it will show down the road.

I do applaud you for giving him another chance, just showed he was full of hot air, all talk.....

I know a marriage takes work & I still believe in marriage, but when someone won't put there 100% into it there isn't much you can do.

[GirlNextDoor11]

IT72 I did want to say I never meant that you wouldn't change that was just my experience. I just wanted to give you a womans incite on this situation! I hope all works out

[lt72]

No girl, I understand. I womans point is always insightful. With you, his efforts to reconcile may have worked for you? Did he know what you were looking for from him?

 

My main concern is to balance the emotion with the kids and a separate set of emotions with my wife. I may have pushed two hard this weekend with the schedule for us and the kids. I guess we'll see if she show's up for the next appmt. I've been more anxious then ever since our first counseling session which is confusing. I feel I've been waiting long for that day, and now I want results. I have to practice patients.

[GirlNextDoor11]

Yes, if his efforts to reconcile actually were true and heartfelt, we probably could have worked it out. But he was showing progress but still at the sametime I still needed something more. I found out later on when I gave him another chance that he was never true about fixing his own issues. In your case you seem to honestly want to work on your issues and be a better man!

 

As for me telling him what the problem was....yes i did numerous times. Until I got so blue in the face I just couldnt do it anymore. For almost a year and a half I closed off to everything became a miserable person, very unhappy, quiet, and boring basically. That is not the kind of person I am at all. Thats when my friends starting taking me out to get me out of my slump and thats when I realized that the problem was him and what he was denying the both of us.

 

As for your childern, emotions will run extremely high in this situation. Unfortunatly I cannot give advice on this since i myself do not have any childern. I can say though for my current BF during his divorce (which is still in process) his emtions for his son were a emtional rollercoaster. I can only wish you the best of luck in that department but continue individual counseling would be my suggestion it seemed to help my BF alot.

[lt72]

Yes, if his efforts to reconcile actually were true and heartfelt, we probably could have worked it out. But he was showing progress but still at the sometime I still needed something more

Girl, help me out, you were willing to work things out if he was true & heartfelt, what else was it that you looking for and did you address with him? Were they emotions you used to feel, were they tangible things? In counseling or alone? Looking back, were your expectations of him obtainable or were his efforts falling on deaf ears? Forgive me if I seem like I'm prying, I'm just trying to inform myself so I don't make the same mistakes. I'm a good person with bad habits. She feels people don't change and I'm out to prove her wrong... Thanks for the perspective!

[GirlNextDoor11]

It72 basically in our relationship he was very withdrawn when it came to my emtions as well as my physical needs. He was back and forth with jobs and became extremely depressed. When I would try to talk to him about just about anything even the smallest of subjects he would snap on me and call me names and accuse me of being the problem.

Once I decided to take the break and he tried working on his issues, he did go back to school to better himself and counseling as well as the reading of the many of selfhelp books and things.

But the difference between him and you, he did these things for ME to show me he was trying to better himself. But he never actually felt these things could help him. He was just doing things that he thought would make me stay. You on the other hand seem to be doing these things to honestly better yourself. So theres a big difference! If he would have been more like you I probably would have stayed or atleast when I gave him the second chance he would have actually had better'd himself and it would have worked.

Your not prying at all...feel free to ask me anything! If i can help I will!