Author scarred Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 her appeal of laying with another man while pregnant - good question. I guess I'll never know.... I'll have to chalk it up to a character flaw that she did not control at the time. Terrible choices on her part. I'm now wishing I hadn't posted here. All of the conspiracy theories about "I know she had sex with him" really have been more hurtful than helpful. I thought I had gotten to a point where I could move forward with counseling and focus on the future and how we make our marriage better. I still do, but if you are a poster on this board, why not try helpful comments as opposed to imposing a harsh, probably not very helpful opinion - most of you just want to jump right to the worst possible conclusion - multiple partners, orgies, she's lying, etc. If you don't have something helpful to post in a nice kind way, why try to rub salt into someone's wound when they are obviously enduring a painful situation? This will be my last post - for those with helpful comments I appreciate them. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 her appeal of laying with another man while pregnant - good question. I guess I'll never know.... Well, you can know, if you ask and she tells you..But something tells me you don't want to know. And that's OK. Sorry that you didn't get what you wanted out of this site. People do care and are helpful, it just may not be the type of advise you can handle right now, or want to think about.. One thing, before you leave, read Thumbingmyway's thread. Then click on his username and go to his profile. Click on all threads by Thumbingmyway and take some time to really read his situation..That's all I'll say.. Good luck and take care. Link to post Share on other sites
stampdaddy Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Well, that didnt take long.. Nice going Which Way Is Up!!!! OWL is gonna be pissed! Scarred.. don't go away. TRUST ME. People here CAN and WILL help you. Sure, there are a few that will try to throw every conceivable scenario at you (I didnt see the orgy post though). Sometimes a "gut feeling" is dead on, just ask YOURSELF that... and yes, sometimes they are way off. But, with your story, there are alot of guts here (and I know alot of these posters), so I trust those guts, SOMETHING is not right with what you are saying... And I think your gut is telling you the same.. Post again, when you are ready... Thanks Link to post Share on other sites
Author scarred Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 OK - one final post. I don't have to be missing something do I? Does it matter about the details of who said no first? She said she said no first and then he agreed. They talked about how they had let it escalate too far (or at all) and that it wasn't appropriate and hadn't been appropriate. I've asked her probably 10 times including asking her to take a polygraph and to swear as if she was standing in front of the God to which she professes her love. I know my wife NOW (as opposed to then) well enough to know when she is telling the truth. Stampdaddy - your post along with all the others seem to say "how do you really know"? Of course, nobody in this situation ever knows anything for sure do they? If you're married, how can you be 100% certain that your wife or husband hasn't cheated unless you have her/him followed 24 hours a day, have her/him phone tapped, have a key stroke monitor on her/his computer, have placed a bug in every article of clothing she/he is wearing, etc. It really seems like the people on this web site really want to believe the worst about every situation or they take particular sadistic joy in inflicting more doubt and pain on people already in pain. Signing off as an obviously naive husband. I guess my wife will continue her ongoing affairs with multiple partners and I'll live in ignorance.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author scarred Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 And yes I do believe her story. Haven't any of you ever had a story that would be hard for someone else to believe but you know its true? It may not fit typical patterns but that doesn't make it untrue. The original intent of my post, which I probably stated poorly, was to get some insight from women as to what impact pregnancy hormones may have had in this situation, and if there was feedback on what might drive a guy like this other than the sex act with a pregnant woman - ie power, ego, maybe sex after the baby is born, some guys are just sick and want to make out with pregnant women.... Again, not absolving my wife of responsibility, but I do believe her story. Link to post Share on other sites
stampdaddy Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 OK - one final post. I don't have to be missing something do I? Does it matter about the details of who said no first? She said she said no first and then he agreed. They talked about how they had let it escalate too far (or at all) and that it wasn't appropriate and hadn't been appropriate. I've asked her probably 10 times including asking her to take a polygraph and to swear as if she was standing in front of the God to which she professes her love. I know my wife NOW (as opposed to then) well enough to know when she is telling the truth. Stampdaddy - your post along with all the others seem to say "how do you really know"? Of course, nobody in this situation ever knows anything for sure do they? If you're married, how can you be 100% certain that your wife or husband hasn't cheated unless you have her/him followed 24 hours a day, have her/him phone tapped, have a key stroke monitor on her/his computer, have placed a bug in every article of clothing she/he is wearing, etc. It really seems like the people on this web site really want to believe the worst about every situation or they take particular sadistic joy in inflicting more doubt and pain on people already in pain. Signing off as an obviously naive husband. I guess my wife will continue her ongoing affairs with multiple partners and I'll live in ignorance.... Scarred, I know you will read this.. I will apologize to you. You DO know your wife, I do not.. I don't have all of the answers, and I do not claim to. I am sure that your wife is wonderful and while YES, she did make her mistakes, I sure heve too, and I DO NOT judge her.. I mean, should we all be so lucky to make a mistake, realize it, dwell on it, find Christ, atone for it and live a beautiful life going forward.. So, I am sorry that I let my gut come at you so fixed and forceful... Good luck to you and your family Link to post Share on other sites
Author scarred Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Stampdaddy - thanks. Your reply means a lot. Your comments state exactly how I feel. And of course, I'm not without my own sin as well - I just haven't sinned in this way. So, we all make mistakes, some of them terrible. The key to life in this situation is to be able to forgive and let it go - its her sin, not mine. It will take some time to fully trust again (if ever) but I can live with that. We're already talking about how we make our marriage better and avoid these situations from ever happening again - if we feel attraction to someone else being open about it so that its out in the open - if there are ever situations where one of us has to go to a conference going as a couple, etc. As bad as the feelings have been for me, maybe this is a gift for me - a gift that allows me to recognize how much I truly love my wife, that I need to show her that love everyday (and she me), and not to be so naive about marriage meaning neither party will every succumb to temptation. I'm now older, sadder, but a bit wiser. Link to post Share on other sites
stampdaddy Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Stampdaddy - thanks. Your reply means a lot. Your comments state exactly how I feel. And of course, I'm not without my own sin as well - I just haven't sinned in this way. So, we all make mistakes, some of them terrible. The key to life in this situation is to be able to forgive and let it go - its her sin, not mine. It will take some time to fully trust again (if ever) but I can live with that. We're already talking about how we make our marriage better and avoid these situations from ever happening again - if we feel attraction to someone else being open about it so that its out in the open - if there are ever situations where one of us has to go to a conference going as a couple, etc. As bad as the feelings have been for me, maybe this is a gift for me - a gift that allows me to recognize how much I truly love my wife, that I need to show her that love everyday (and she me), and not to be so naive about marriage meaning neither party will every succumb to temptation. I'm now older, sadder, but a bit wiser. I am a "movie guy".. just watched The Legend of Bagger Vance again the other day, and remembered this quote: Bagger Vance I don't need to understand... Ain't a soul on this entire earth ain't got a burden to carry he don't understand, you ain't alone in that... But you been carryin' this one long enough... Time to go on... lay it down... Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 scarred - don't go... i apologize for being so blunt when i could have been a bit more tender with my approach. there are many great posters here who will help - and if you stay and want me to be quiet - then i will do just that. you will need support and encouragement to face this regardless of the truths or outcome. the healing process is a journey... people here can help. stay and fellowship with those who have been there - done that. Link to post Share on other sites
LifesontheUp Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 And yes I do believe her story. Haven't any of you ever had a story that would be hard for someone else to believe but you know its true? It may not fit typical patterns but that doesn't make it untrue. The original intent of my post, which I probably stated poorly, was to get some insight from women as to what impact pregnancy hormones may have had in this situation, and if there was feedback on what might drive a guy like this other than the sex act with a pregnant woman - ie power, ego, maybe sex after the baby is born, some guys are just sick and want to make out with pregnant women.... Again, not absolving my wife of responsibility, but I do believe her story. I don't know if your wife is telling the truth or not. What I can tell you is that when I was pregnant my hormones were all over the place, I would cry for some of the most silliest reasons and became very forgetful. People would say I looked beautiful, I had the "glow" about me and in my 2nd trimester I couldn't get enough sex, couldn't get enough of my partner - much to his delight Being pregnant would not have changed the fact that I would never invite a man I had only met a few times to my hotel room. Why a hotel room? Why not the lounge area of the hotel? I personally don't think hormones is the reason why your wife allowed this man into her room on a number of occasions. I think there are other reasons, which only your wife knows. Maybe through counselling you will get to the bottom of why your wife would act like this. Sorry but I really don't think its hormone related. As to the other guy - I don't think it matters what his reasons were. Its your wifes actions/reasons that should be important to you. You need to work through this with your wife, why your wife did what she did. Counselling should help as long as she is willing to delve into it and be honest. I wish you the best in working this out Link to post Share on other sites
boldjack Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Pardon me , scarred, but the paternity test is a good idea. One reason is her reaction, the other is for your piece of mind. If she is resentful or tries to talk you out of it, you may have a bigger problem than just a few kisses. If she agrees and understands your need for closure, then with counseling I see no reason why you can't put this episode behind you. You have to remember that you aren't the cheater, she WAS. Link to post Share on other sites
Author scarred Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Thanks for the comments. I think pure and simple my wife at first got flattered by the attention, then because she wanted to continue the thrill she let it happen or even encouraged it. She says she was infatuated with the guy - he was handsome, outgoing, successful - and he was showing interest in her at a time when we would have been settling in after the first couple of years of marriage - I probably wasn't as attentive as I was once focusing on work, etc. And an obvious character flaw of hers showed itself as well. She will admit she had some feelings for the guy as they did talk once (and yes I've been able to verify most of this so please don't conspiracy theory me anymore) after the last conference. If you throw in the concept of being out of town at conferences which is a fantasy world (never really see the real person you just see them for brief periods in an insulated environment) and I can see how it happened. Doesn't make it right - it was wrong and she has told me so. As for the paternity test, I don't really need one. When my son was born he looked just like me - still does. I'm not blind - you can compare baby pictures, etc. Again, I realize everyone wants to think the absolute worst in all of these situations, but I truly do believe there are those people who get caught up in something, let it happen to a point, and then realize their mistake and cut if off - and no it doesn't always lead to sex. So, appreciate all the comments with opinions but I believe what I believe - and again it did happen 14 years ago and our lives have been pretty much "together" ever since - no separation by trips, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
LakesideDream Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Scarred, I'm usually the old fogey around here, and frankly I get in trouble for "reality based" comments. After reading your post I have to weigh in with what I would be doing right now, if I were in your situation. First things first, I'd sit the lady down and thank her for her honesty. I'd also tell her that she had my word I would never bring the subject up again. Second I'd find a way to spend a couple of days with her, a mini vacation maybe. I'd be a good husband. Have some fun, do something special away from the responsiblilty of home and children. Third I'd start forgetting about it right now. You have 17+ years of marriage invested, don't throw it away. Todays world is all about "ME, me, me". You are hurt because of something that happened during the 1st Bush administration. Get over yourself. A lifetime has passed since your wife hankey pankied with her co worker. How has that lifetime been? Ready to throw that lifetime away? Stop making this about your pain, your mistrust, your feeling "disrespected". She's still your loving wife 17 years later, and personally I believe that's worth a lot. Now if you find out she's still cheating.... all bets are off. Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Lakeside, He has only recently found out about his wife's affair, so I think it is premature to promise her he will never mention it again! He needs to 'process' it all. He needs to rethink all the events, fit in the actual history as he knew it then, with this added bit of information now, so he can see and understand the whole picture as his wife knew reality to be back then and all the subsequent years since! Scarred, I am glad for you that you have solid proof that your wife has been able to break it off and never repeat that behavior again in the past dozen years. That is a promising sign. However, lets not overlook the fact that she still lied to/betrayed you for all these years by presenting herself as she was not.... I am not saying you need to leave her, but just keep it in mind what she was capable of. She selfishly did what she felt like at the time, then took away YOUR right to Choose whether to live with her at the time and continue your fidelity to this person who was acting otherwise at the time. Many other cheating spouses who 'come clean' with their partners get dumped. Your wife took your choice away from you by not giving you the truth for all these years. She not only did you wrong by having an affair, but she also did you wrong by not telling you at the time and thereby lying to you for many, many years. That is wrong. You did not deserve that betrayal for all these years. Think about it -- she presented herself as she was not. You thought you knew her, how wrong you were -- she, for selfish reasons, continued to keep the truth from you, thereby taking away your right to do what you would have decided. That is actively betraying you for many, many years. Yes, she has behaved admirably in all these subsequent years and that definitely needs to be taken into consideration... I wonder what a Fair and Just judge would do in a court of law, should a perpetrator of a crime (broke the law) turn himself in after 12 years, but proved to be a model citizen in those subsequent years... Anyway, I know that counselors always ask the question "Why Now?" They think it is an excellent question to ask when something Different happens... so, please can you help your posters, can you volunteer an answer (since you adequately answered and portrayed your W's frame of mind, etc)... Why did she choose NOW to give you the truth to your question? Link to post Share on other sites
Author scarred Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Lakeside - you're right. Its just the newness of the information to me and the impact on my pride which - you're right I've really been focused more on my feelings than hers. I know she feels devastated by this and is scared I'm going to leave her over something that happened a long time ago. I'm not going to do that. We are going to work through counseling on other aspects of our marriage to continue to strengthen it. There has been a renewal of our commitment to each other since this came out - on both of our parts. I'm looking forward to a new and better marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
Author scarred Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Athena - I can't tell you what was going through her mind as to "why now". As I mentioned in earlier posts, there were things she had said to me over the years which a more suspicious person might have picked up on and grilled her to the point of breaking. However, for some reason here recently there were a few more comments which I began to pick up on which made me wonder. So, I eventually started pushing pretty hard last week and told her I wanted to go to a counselor to discuss this matter as well as other issues we have had over the years in our marriage - none of them major, just differences in people, etc. She then indicated that she had had an inappropriate relationship with this person as I described and in earlier posts. Over the course of a couple of days (I couldn't grill her endlessly in one session) she opened up and told me the details of each conference and how it slowly built up to a point where it reached the point of no return. She/he decided it couldn't go farther and it effectively ended although there was one final contact where in that discussion they affirmed the decision and their respective desires to stay with their spouses. I guess at this point, it doesn't really matter what they did. I can dwell on it and wonder if I have the whole story for the rest of my life. I'm confident there have been no additional inappropriate situations since then - no opportunity, etc. So, I can choose to throw away 16 years of good marraige for 1 year where 4 or 5 ever escalating incidents occurred that happened 14/15 years ago or I can believe that she truly loves me, is commited to being with me going forward and making our marriage the best it can possibly be, and forgiving her very human errors. I'm going to choose the latter. We've already discussed how not to put ourselves in situations like those above, how if we are attracted to others we need to talk about it so its out in the open, doing more relationship building things together, etc. We've also discussed what is inappropriate and not and our/my expectations that if anything remotely inappropriate ever happens again then that would be the end of the marriage - and I would expect her to hold me accountable for that as well. So, we'll see what happens. Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Look, I fully understand what you are saying... I have managed to move on and forgive my H his past affairs. What I think you are not focusing on, is that she did you wrong by lying to you about it for all these years. I get that she gave you hints and that you feel YOU did not pick up on them as anyone else would have... seems like you are saying she tried to tell you in her own way, but you didn't pick up on her attempts. Here's what I think: You need to tell her that what is worse than her cheating on you was her continued lying to you. Or don't you agree? She didn't respect you enough to give you the truth. She put her own interests above yours, by withholding from you, the kind of person she really was. She misrepresented herself, and now, just by showing enough remorse to you, she gets away with it Scott-free, while you suffer emotionally.... is this okay? She needs to be told that what she did was wrong. She does not need to be protected from her actions just because there is remorse; of course it helps that she regrets having had an affair, but I do not see any remorse on her part that she LIED to you for 90% of your marriage -- are you not seeing this as significant?! Link to post Share on other sites
stampdaddy Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Look, I fully understand what you are saying... I have managed to move on and forgive my H his past affairs. What I think you are not focusing on, is that she did you wrong by lying to you about it for all these years. I get that she gave you hints and that you feel YOU did not pick up on them as anyone else would have... seems like you are saying she tried to tell you in her own way, but you didn't pick up on her attempts. Here's what I think: You need to tell her that what is worse than her cheating on you was her continued lying to you. Or don't you agree? She didn't respect you enough to give you the truth. She put her own interests above yours, by withholding from you, the kind of person she really was. She misrepresented herself, and now, just by showing enough remorse to you, she gets away with it Scott-free, while you suffer emotionally.... is this okay? She needs to be told that what she did was wrong. She does not need to be protected from her actions just because there is remorse; of course it helps that she regrets having had an affair, but I do not see any remorse on her part that she LIED to you for 90% of your marriage -- are you not seeing this as significant?! Athena, How do you KNOW that she hasnt been carrying this burden of guilt for all of these years HASN'T been her punishment?? How do you know she hasnt been remorseful internally for 2-10-15 years?? I PROMISE you, she isn't "Scott Free" Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 She chose not to tell her husband about what she did and she covered it up for 15 years. Even if she did feel guilty about her ACTIONS for the past 15 years, she is now appearing to only be sorry for that affair.... what is being overlooked (I feel) by both her and her husband, is that she LIED for so long.... she took the choice of truth out of her husband's hands for her own selfish reasons. At least her husband needs to address that. He is in a state of shock now, and is obviously focused on the affair itself. But no where do I see him stating to her that he never again wants to be lied to again. That he is worthy of the truth.... she seems to have earned her right to remain married to him by never cheating again, but the betrayal lived on. How is that part going to be made right?! Talk about rewarding someone's lies.... Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Scarred, look there's nothing complicated here. Just make sure you tell your wife, very, very clearly that the fact that she LIED to you all these years is unacceptable. That she better keep it in mind that you want the truth from her so that you can trust her. That she needs to respect you and your marriage.... and if, in the future, she ever messes up in any way, it is not her right to lie to you. That's all. Simple. If you don't make an issue of it Now, when are you going to make that clear??? Unlike the affair part which only lasted months, her lying (betrayal) of you lasted 15 years, are you going to let that part slide? Or are you going to talk to her about it Link to post Share on other sites
Author scarred Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 Athena/Stampdaddy - I've gotten very angry with her. I told her that she obviously had some feelings for this guy back then and essentially she got to take a year to decide whether her love for me was stronger than some infatuation she had for this guy. I told her that it was only fair that I get some time to process what I want to do as well given this information is new for me. I've also told her that chances are if she would have told me this story back then it would have more likely ended in divorce, not for sure, but more likely. I've told her I didn't get a fair shake and the real conflict for me is that I now have the benefit of an additional 14 years of pretty good marriage that I wouldn't have had knowledge of if she would have told me back then. Lets be honest, most of us are in to self preservation and she knew even though it only escalated to a certain piont that I'd be upset about this. Maybe when I really pushed she realized she had to get it out there or she could never move forward since it probably had been a burden on her mind for so long. However, deep inside I know what I want to do - I stated it several times her including to Lakeside. We've just had too many good years together, I love her, and I and she want our marriage to be even stronger going forward. It will just take some time, communication, and commitment. Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 It will just take some time, communication, and commitment. ...and telling the truth, no matter how ugly, no matter what the risk is, of telling the truth, right? Or do you reward lies because of good behavior? You need to add Truth to your list above. Link to post Share on other sites
Author scarred Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 No I don't reward lies because of good behavior. So, are you saying that I should just go ahead and dump her because nothing she has done could make up for this episode. Are you saying you still don't believe she is telling the truth and I'm stupid for believing it. Or are you simply stating that I need to confirm that going forward I need the truth, when it happens, and nothing less. Or of course you could be saying all of the above. I'm not going to dump her because of this, I do believe what she has told me because I've pushed and prodded all I can do and she swears its the truth - and of course I'll never be able to prove it otherwise. Yes I could get her to take a polygraph test but you know what - I just don't think it matters. Whatever happened regardless of how far it escalated was cheating, plain and simple. What I'm more interested in is if she is committed to making a great relationship going forward. Its not like I've been a perfect husband for the past 17 years. I've created distance between us because of dedication to work, my own interests for a longer period that this went on. We've stuck together through all of this. This "information" was a wake up call for me that neither of us have been perfect in this marriage - and if we're going to stay together, we're both going to have to be committed to the hard work - and yes TRUTHFUL regardless of the cost. Link to post Share on other sites
stampdaddy Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 ...and telling the truth, no matter how ugly, no matter what the risk is, of telling the truth, right? Or do you reward lies because of good behavior? You need to add Truth to your list above. I think he gets it...... Don't mean to start a "thing" with you, not my style, BUT, give the MAN (a grown man with his own brain, heart and experience) his chance to deal with his situation the best way he knows how to. His wife is HIS wife, and again, I can promise you, she is hurting too.. I can not picture her saying, "shoo-wee, that was a close one.." Again, Scarred has let it be known that for YEARS, his wife felt that she wasnt worthy of him. Dropping those little statements of rue for many years.. Where do you think those came from? Her guilt. Let this sleeping dog lie, they ARE making progress towards the second chapter of their wonderful marriage together.. No marriage is pristine, but this one is close... Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 No I don't reward lies because of good behavior. So, are you saying that I should just go ahead and dump her because nothing she has done could make up for this episode. Nope, I am not saying to dump her at all Are you saying you still don't believe she is telling the truth and I'm stupid for believing it. Nope, I do believe she has told you the truth. And I do not think you are stupid for believing her, I am sure you know the truth when you hear it. Or are you simply stating that I need to confirm that going forward I need the truth, when it happens, and nothing less.Yes. All I am saying is that you need to state to your wife the fact that while you are shocked at hearing about the affair, she needs to be aware that she ALSO did you wrong by lying to you for the past 15 years by withholding relevant information from you, and that you want her to know (don't just assume she will get it, you must tell her) that you are also hurt by the fact that she has seen fit to lie to you for your entire marriage. Yes, I get that her lies landed up saving your marriage because she got to earn her keep by being a great wife. I am just saying don't forget to actually verbalize your expectation of Truth telling, now that you are re-writing the marriage understanding Link to post Share on other sites
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