getting over an affair

[Reggie]

First, I don't beleive there is a difference in the way men and women form attachments or view sex, as I mentioned.

 

But, assuming it is true that men form relationships for sex and women for emotional fulfillment, we still have no way of knowing which is more difficult to walk away from. Calling it "casual" sex may not be accurate. For some folks in it for the sex, it may be a very big attachment to this pleasurable , physical activity. It could well be that a person, man or woman, desires sex just as much as another person desires emotional attachment. A person in it for sex may place every bit as much value on that aspect of the relationship as another does the emotional attachment.

 

See, I think there is an assumption that an emotional connection runs deeper than a sexual one. But, there is no way to know. One person deprived of the sex she or he loves may go through every bit as much pain or whatever upon removal of the source of sex as someone who has his or her emotional connection severed.

 

I think some folks can walk away from emotional connections easier than others. Same with sexual connections.

 

I don't think the gender plays a role in either the type of connection that is formed or the ease with which someone gets over the loss of that connection. But, I have nothing to back this up other than my own expieirences and observations where I've seen or expierienced so many women that just want sex, no emotions involved. I just think this reality is threatening to society for some reason. So, the myth that women are different from men in this regard persists. You'll see it mentioned enough in books or websites to make you believe it. But, my expierience says otherwise.

[taylor]

Thank you, Reggie, for your thoughtful response.

 

You have given me alot of food for thought here.

 

I am normally a fairly conservative, old-fashioned thinking kind of a person. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the notion of women engaging in casual sex with no feelings involved. I guess mainly because I just couldn't do that myself. I have to have the emotional attachment and trust before I would even consider engaging in sex with a man.

 

You bring up a good point to consider: that it is possible for a sexual attachment to run as deep and be as valued as an emotional attachment. I guess, again, I never looked at it that way.

 

I guess as a female you get conditioned to believe that you are most valuable if a man loves you...wants a meaningful relationship with you...rather than if he just wants sex with you. We tend to downplay the importance of sex in a relationship as opposed to the love in a relationship.

 

Perhaps men do just the opposite. Perhaps it's the sexual attachment that gives meaning and value to the relationship and all the love/romance is downplayed.

 

If this is true, then I can see how a man can have just as difficult of a time overcoming an affair as a woman..the affair relationship might mean something different to the man than to the woman, but could still be equally meaningful.

 

Does this make any sense?

[taylor]

Take my H for an example -- over two marriages he has had affairs with 12 women. He always managed to compartmentalize the affair from the marriage and the sex from falling in love with them. No matter if the cheating was a one-night-stand, a weekend affair, or over a year or more. Except for this last affair -- he fell in love with her.... funny thing was he finished up his time abroad, said goodbye to her at the airport & they broke up, and he returned home to me. She, within one month, was dating his best friend there.... and they are now talking of marriage.

 

So, I guess while my H thought he was very clever at keeping his feelings and emotions out of all his affairs, he was caught out himself this last time, and it hurt him big time.

 

Yes, there are exceptions.... there always are to every 'rule'. But you, being a potential OW have to watch out for being taken advantage of by a MM who just wants 'extra' on the side, and is not looking for true love -- whether or not he finds it with you is questionable, but I believe he is not actively looking for love, but for other stuff that comes with affairs -- fun, excitement, thrills, sex, validation, affection, companionship, etc

 

Wow, I can't believe your H had affairs with 12 women.

 

Let me ask you this..do you believe any of these women were actively looking for love from your husband...or were they also seeking the thrill and excitement of the affair? Did any of them "accidentally" fall in love with him?

 

He fell in love with one out of 12 and you said that he had a hard time dealing with that one.Your husband kind of illustrates the point I've been making in this thread: that it can be harder to overcome an affair if you fall in love with your affair partner rather than if you see the relationship as purely "sexual" in nature.

 

I've just been making a huge assumption that most women will eventually fall in love with their affair partners; men, on the other hand, perhaps not as likely to do so.

[taylor]

taylor, i could not agree with you more. I know folks will jump all over when you make general statements like this but in the last several months that has been my experience.....From what i have read on several websites and also learning from others. Not too many out there that truely want to recover from an affair where the wife strayed.

 

I talked with my therapist about this. She said in many cases women are more forgiving of a man's indiscretions. She also said wives are less likely to leave their wayward husbands following an affair mainly for security and financial reasons.

 

 

When men stray, they are fairly quick to jump right back in (assuming that BW takes him back). From what i have read here and other place, it usually takes few weeks before they are working on the Recovery plan. In cases of woman, you are talking months, if not years, before they can even can get out of the fog. (depending on the affair ofcourse).

 

I surely don't know enough about this and is one reason I posed the questions in this thread. I know it has been nearly 11 months since my EA ended and the desire for my husband is just starting to return. It has been an uphill struggle to hold on to the few remaining fragments of our marriage and to try to piece the rest of it back together. But we are doing it and the committment to continue doing it grows stronger every day.

 

Yet, I still wonder. If it had been my husband who had had the affair, whether EA or PA, would he have struggled just as much as I did to return to the marriage? Could he have walked away from the affair partner faster or more easily than I was able to? My husband has been the most patient man in the world. If the shoe were on the other foot, I am not sure if I would have had it in me to be as patient.

 

And then I also wonder from time to time if the OM struggled in any way to let go of the affair relationship...how easy was it for him to walk away and move on?

 

I realize there is no point in speculation but I have to admit that over the past 11 months...from time to time...I have vascilated between anger and guilt with regard to the OM...angry at the thought that he may not have struggled at all...and guilty at the thought that I may have hurt two men (my husband and the OM) by not maintaining healthy emotional boundaries.

 

When a woman strays, assuming that husband is willing to fight for the marriage and wants her back....it is SO difficult and painful for both that you start to wonder. Is this ever going to work ? I dont think i have lost hope but I still think it is well worth it in the end.

 

65tr6, I think the ONLY thing that has made our recovery possible has been my husband's patience. I recommitted to him verbally and mentally soon after D-day but he has waited a long time for me to recommit to him in my heart. But my desire to make him happy and to live the rest of my life with him IS returning. I can honestly say I don't want anyone else. It took a long time for the affair fog to lift and a long time to sever the emotional attachment to the OM. Even the emotional response to memories has lost strength and the fantasies have completely lost their luster. I didn't think that would ever happen, but it did.

 

I also believe that when men stray they do it primarily for sex. (bring on the 2X4s, i am ready for it). That does not mean there is never emotional bond in the illicit affair but I have hard time thinking that men do it primarily for emotional support.

 

I read somewhere recently that men seek emotional support thru sex. Women, on the other hand, have many avenues where they can and do find fulfilling emotional support...their friends, family, and children. It's just not the same for men.

 

What amazes me is when woman, who have little kids, actually have affairs. What in the world are they thinking ??? (I know that goes for men as well)

 

I don't know. When my children were babies I was totally in the "mommy mode." I felt asexual and men outside my husband were genderless as far as I cared. I was also completely exhausted and preferred a good night's sleep over a night of passion.

 

But I have read that young couples who become parents are vulnerable to affairs. The new dads feel neglected and the new moms feel undesireable/unattractive.

 

the statistics say that a woman has an affair it is more likely to end in an divorce. I am not sure if it is because men have difficult time accepting back an unfaithful wife or is it too painful to recover from such a trauma. In either case, it is easier to take the easy way out and i think most people do.

 

Again, I think women are more forgiving than men regarding affairs. Maybe they feel they have to be for security and financial reasons. It may not be as easy for them to walk away from the marriage so they just live with the betrayal.

 

And it does seem there are alot of very bitter men who truly can't seem to get passed the betrayal, even if they divorce their wayward wife.

 

I'm not sure how much of that may have to do with how long it takes a wayward spouse to get over the affair. It seems like very few men are willing to wait for that to happen. They choose to wash their hands of the cheating spouse because they know they can never trust again, and of course, that is their right to do so.

[Reggie]

Taylor, I think our personal exieriences make a big difference in how we view these gender differences. If you have certain values, you tend to associate with folks with similar values. So, it does not surprise me that you have a difficult time imagining women just out for pure sex. I expect most of your women acquaintneces feel as you do. So, there is a tendency to think most women are this way.

 

I can tell you, from a guy's perspective, there are just tons of women out there who are lust looking for sex and nothing more. And, I know of many, many guys that need an emotional connection to feel intimate.

It is just so much easier, for some reason, to make generalizations.

 

Your husband must be a very patient guy and love you a lot to go through what he is going through. It would make me feel like the booby prize to see my wife have to struggle to love me. Quite a blow to one's self esteem , I imagine.

[Reggie]

Wanted to add, that the bitterness thing is overrated. First, it is a very normal ,healthy reaction to this type of assault. My first wife was a serial cheater and we have been divorced 13 years. I am not consumed by bitterness toward her.But, I woud never trust her and I want nothing to do with her. I think that is healthy and it does not consume me.

 

Look, if one does not learn a lesson or two from this, something is wrong. Am I bitter because my eyes are now open to the possibility that people are not who they appear to be? It definitely has changed my perspective on relationships and that is good, because now my view reflects reality.

[taylor]

Wanted to add, that the bitterness thing is overrated. First, it is a very normal ,healthy reaction to this type of assault. My first wife was a serial cheater and we have been divorced 13 years. I am not consumed by bitterness toward her.But, I woud never trust her and I want nothing to do with her. I think that is healthy and it does not consume me.

 

I can and do appreciate all that you say here.

 

Look, if one does not learn a lesson or two from this, something is wrong. Am I bitter because my eyes are now open to the possibility that people are not who they appear to be? It definitely has changed my perspective on relationships and that is good, because now my view reflects reality.

 

I think this is called wisdom.

[Reggie]

The main bit of wisdom I gained was that this relationship stuff is just not for me. The cost/benefit thing just does not add up. I am really incapable of discerning the type of person I am dealing with. That is just reality for me. As Dirty Harry said" A man's got to know his limitations."

I no longer try to hit par 5's in two when there is a long carry over water. Just makes things easier.

[taylor]

Taylor, I think our personal exieriences make a big difference in how we view these gender differences. If you have certain values, you tend to associate with folks with similar values. So, it does not surprise me that you have a difficult time imagining women just out for pure sex. I expect most of your women acquaintneces feel as you do. So, there is a tendency to think most women are this way.

 

And it is for this reason that I appreciate you bringing your experience and the male perspective to this thread.

 

It may sound totally ironic, but I do believe it was my "value system" that prevented me from crossing the line into a PA with my affair partner. I held back for months. I wish I could say it was totally out of respect and love/commitment to my husband. But I know part of the reason I held back was because I did not totally trust the OM, wasn't sure of his intentions, and wasn't sure his emotional attachment to me was as strong as mine was to him. And that's my criteria for engaging in sex with a man.

 

I was also confused because he pursued me for a sexual relationship and at the same time said how he admired me because I had morals. I didn't know how to compromise those two things. And I didn't know how he could, either.

 

I can tell you, from a guy's perspective, there are just tons of women out there who are lust looking for sex and nothing more. And, I know of many, many guys that need an emotional connection to feel intimate. It is just so much easier, for some reason, to make generalizations.

 

You are right. And I do think it is dangerous to make generalizations because they can cloud and distort the truth and reality of any given situation...It's good to know there are men who truly do need an emotional connection to feel intimacy.

 

 

Your husband must be a very patient guy and love you a lot to go through what he is going through. It would make me feel like the booby prize to see my wife have to struggle to love me. Quite a blow to one's self esteem , I imagine.

 

My husband is a very patient man. Despite the affair, he never stopped believing in me or believing in us. He believed even when I stopped believing.

 

My husband said early on in recovery that we had BOTH stopped loving each other...that we just needed to start loving each other again. It has been a struggle for both of us to love each other.

 

I am sure my husband struggles with some self-esteem issues but for the most part he is a very confident, level headed man. He is successful at everything he does. He is well liked. And he is very comfortable in his own skin.

 

I, on the other hand, have struggled with self-esteem issues for some time, and the affair only made me loathe myself more. This self-loathing has slowed our recovery. I am taking steps in IC to overcome some of these issues and it has helped. I have a long way to go, though.

 

He sees me as someone who is "sick" and "broken" who needs to heal. He believes once I heal, the marriage will heal.

 

Our MC believes this, too, and for that reason has focused alot of effort on IC with me.

 

I hope my husband doesn't consider himself the booby prize. I certainly don't.

 

I see it more like this: He is the prize in the box that got sealed with tape and glue and shoved in a corner to collect dust. And now I have found that box again and I am opening it back up to see what lies within.

[Dexter Morgan]

Wanted to add, that the bitterness thing is overrated. First, it is a very normal ,healthy reaction to this type of assault. My first wife was a serial cheater and we have been divorced 13 years. I am not consumed by bitterness toward her.But, I woud never trust her and I want nothing to do with her. I think that is healthy and it does not consume me.

 

People who call others that have been betrayed "bitter" are the people that hurt someone in that same way at one point in their life.

 

Its ok to cheat and hurt someone....but its not ok to have strong feelings against those types of people...hence being called "bitter".

 

The people who fly off the "bitter" comments are the people that have some character repair to do on themselves.

[65tr6]

He sees me as someone who is "sick" and "broken" who needs to heal. He believes once I heal, the marriage will heal.

.

i used the exact same word "sick" to describe what my wife did. And i got hammerred for it. (i think it was Dexter who did that - I could be wrong). taylor, your husband said that because he knows what he is talking about. She knows who you are. Just because you had an affair does not make you an alien. Even though you may have acted like one (my wife sure did). I feel the exact same way. My self-esteem took a dent but nowhere near what other BSs have felt. What hurts though...is the disrespect...men, some of us feel utterly disrespected when their wives have affairs. And that will take time to overcome.

 

I know this is way off topic but just could not resist commenting on this.

[Dexter Morgan]

i used the exact same word "sick" to describe what my wife did. And i got hammerred for it. (i think it was Dexter who did that - I could be wrong).

 

You must be wrong. I'd never hammer someone who refers to a cheating spouse as "sick"....unless you are trying to excuse away her behavior and justify it. And even then I wouldn't hammer you. i'd sympathize completely, but try to get you to snap out of the daze you are in.

[taylor]

i used the exact same word "sick" to describe what my wife did. And i got hammerred for it. (i think it was Dexter who did that - I could be wrong). taylor, your husband said that because he knows what he is talking about. She knows who you are. Just because you had an affair does not make you an alien. Even though you may have acted like one (my wife sure did). I feel the exact same way. My self-esteem took a dent but nowhere near what other BSs have felt. What hurts though...is the disrespect...men, some of us feel utterly disrespected when their wives have affairs. And that will take time to overcome.

 

I know this is way off topic but just could not resist commenting on this.

 

I don't think what you are saying here is off topic at all. It's a topic about overcoming affairs.

 

Viewing the WS as "sick" or "broken" and in need of healing is one way for a BS to "see" their spouse in the aftermath of an affair. I know this perspective went a long way in helping my husband cope with the reality of the affair. It has helped both of us to overcome the affair...to continue to move passed it.

 

Had my husband viewed me as a lying, cheating wh--- or sl-- in the aftermath of the affair, I doubt we would be in recovery mode right now. More likely we would be in the midst of divorce proceedings.

 

I asked my husband about 3 months after D-day why he didn't just kick me to the curb. He said, "Because I KNOW you. And that wasn't you." Just like you said, 65tr6, I was acting like an alien..someone he didn't even know.

 

He wants me to find myself again...the person he fell in love with. I am trying very hard to do that.

 

And I can certainly understand the disrespect you feel. I think men value respect more that anything else..they look for it from their wives, children, co-workers, bosses, parents, etc. To be respected and honored is as much if not more important to a man than love, IMO. With women, I think it's love above all else.

[Dexter Morgan]

He wants me to find myself again.

 

What does that mean?

[Athena]

Wow, I can't believe your H had affairs with 12 women.

 

Let me ask you this..do you believe any of these women were actively looking for love from your husband...or were they also seeking the thrill and excitement of the affair? Did any of them "accidentally" fall in love with him?

 

He fell in love with one out of 12 and you said that he had a hard time dealing with that one.Your husband kind of illustrates the point I've been making in this thread: that it can be harder to overcome an affair if you fall in love with your affair partner rather than if you see the relationship as purely "sexual" in nature.

 

H always prided himself for keeping himself emotionally distant from his affair partners. But over twenty-eight years, two marriages, and 12 affairs, he finally succumbed to 'falling in love' with this last woman. Part of it, says our counselor, is that H had begun to look at his affairs (since I had started Exposing him to both our families and asked them all for their help and support in speaking to him about his damaging actions) and H started to FEEL his emotions once again... so the next affair he was not so invincible (he couldn't ignore his feelings and dissociate any longer) ... I also think that because this last affair was with an Asian woman who was passive and pleasing to him, that it was easier for him to deal with and fall in love with a woman who was not challenging in the least (H is narcissistic).

 

I don't know much about the women he had affairs with in his previous marriage, he told me who they were but I never knew them. However, the women he had affairs with during our marriage, I knew some of them, and the others I got to learn about every D-Day when I questioned him.

 

One woman was much older than him and had a vengeance to sleep with every man she could... she had been married to a very abusive man when she was younger, and he beat her up etc. She decided to get her own back on him by sleeping with ALL his friends, colleagues, relatives, acquaintances... etc. She got divorced and years later she started dating a friend/colleague of my H's. H used to hang out with this couple quite a bit over two years. They even got engaged, and then the man went back to his home country and she was supposed to follow him after a couple of months and get married. When she went over there, she came in the house one day and found her fiancé having sex with some woman in their home. She packed her suitcase and flew back to Europe. Then my H emailed her upon hearing this, and suggested she catch a train to visit him for the weekend. She agreed and did this, and they both knew what they were up to. So -- THIS woman had NO intentions of falling in love with H... as she admitted, she had always had the hots for H from years before, now that her engagement was over, she screwed him (and yes, she knew of me, and had come over to our home and eaten dinner cooked by me, and kissed me on the cheeks).

 

Another woman H had a year long, plus, affair with was a married woman who traveled away Monday to Thursday to work in the city, then returned home for the rest of the days. Her H was a stay at home dad and took care of their three kids. OW was lusting for sex with my H since her man was impotent... she drove my H all the time, until he felt like a piece of meat to her and backed off her... even though she stayed with him in his apartment during the week, and paraded in her sexy underwear in front of him and the TV he was watching, she didn't always get it from H either. She asked him to buy her a Russian wedding band (three intertwined rings) before he left to come home, and met up with him a year later for a weekend fling. Then he told her no more. Yes, she wanted sex, was driven by it, but had developed feelings for him although he constantly told her he didn't feel the same way about her and that he was 'happily married' to me

 

Another young woman he slept with three times, then had a change of heart and declared to her that he was married! She replied that he knew THAT before he walked in through her door, so what had changed?

Thing is, H used his 'being married' as a get-out-clause from every affair before it even began... OW all knew he was married and would never leave his W, but they still got involved... some of them fell in love with him, like a young brilliant highly educated woman at his work, with whom he got close to by advising her on her 'problems' with her fiancé, and she completely looked up to him as a wiser, experience married man, and fell for him.... he cut her loose after sleeping with her twice (I guess cause she wasn't considered pretty enough, and was slightly overweight)... again he claimed he was married and 'loved his wife'.

 

H is disgusting in the way he has figured out how to disarm and charm and de-robe and bed an OW.... he has actually bragged to me how he does it, what he says, how she trusts him, how he makes NO moves on her, etc etc, he has a time line plotted out... it is sickening.

 

But with this last woman, she was ten years younger than him and was running the pub he and his colleagues frequented... he took on the father figure with her, and 'protected' her against all those lustful men (MM and single men) and constantly warned her about what they were saying and thinking etc

She fell for H. Then he slept with her. And did this for a year. Shame on him!

 

I look at him sometimes and wonder how he can lie so easily. I wonder why he is so self-centered and selfish, when he always appears to be generous -- he always pays for everyone, he acts the perfect gentleman, he has a great sense of humor and all woman find him charming.... he is a con-man, a wolf in sheep's clothing.... and he is ruthless about getting his needs met... about being admired, about the 'thrill of the chase' about being smarter than those women, etc etc

[Dexter Morgan]

H always prided himself for keeping himself emotionally distant from his affair partners.

 

He took "pride" in that? Thats nothing to be proud of.

[65tr6]

He wants me to find myself again...the person he fell in love with. I am trying very hard to do that..

 

I am with dexter on this one taylor. What does this mean ? Yes i would like to see some of the things i had seen in the past from my wife and I think i am already seeing a bit of it (and I love it!) but reality is it wont completely go back to that. I dont think you both want it go back to that.

 

Some things are permanently lost - for example - innocence, playful jokes and few others. That is the price we will pay for this.

 

And I can certainly understand the disrespect you feel. I think men value respect more that anything else..they look for it from their wives, children, co-workers, bosses, parents, etc. To be respected and honored is as much if not more important to a man than love, IMO. With women, I think it's love above all else.

right on the money for me alteast. I like to be respected....by my wife....all the time. If i had choice between love and respect, guess what, i will take respect. Probably i view respect as a form of love.

 

For women, i am learning the hard way, as you said, they want to be loved.

[Athena]

He took "pride" in that? Thats nothing to be proud of.

I guess when one is narcissistic and relationships are a game, then one feels like one is 'winning' (when he plays the dangerous stakes and manages not to get burned by getting his emotions involved) and a false sense of pride sets in.

 

He has been a total arse. What can I say to you?

[taylor]

H is disgusting in the way he has figured out how to disarm and charm and de-robe and bed an OW.... he has actually bragged to me how he does it, what he says, how she trusts him, how he makes NO moves on her, etc etc, he has a time line plotted out... it is sickening.

 

Athena,

 

I think you should write a book about your husband's affair history. It would go a long way in wising up alot of very naive women.

 

And I think Reggie is right when he says sometimes you just don't know who you are dealing with..how to read a person...and that lack of ability to do this can leave you wide open to unbearable heartache....to the point where you don't even want to risk putting your heart on the line with anyone.

 

I look at him sometimes and wonder how he can lie so easily. I wonder why he is so self-centered and selfish, when he always appears to be generous -- he always pays for everyone, he acts the perfect gentleman, he has a great sense of humor and all woman find him charming.... he is a con-man, a wolf in sheep's clothing.... and he is ruthless about getting his needs met... about being admired, about the 'thrill of the chase' about being smarter than those women, etc etc

 

This sent a shiver down my spine.

[taylor]

He wants me to find myself again ~ Taylor

 

What does that mean?

 

Dexter,

 

I would like to answer this question as forthright and as honestly as I can but too much detail on this public forum would reveal more than I am comfortable with.

 

Finding myself has nothing to do with going back to being the person I was before the affair..or returning to the way the marriage was before the affair. In fact, finding myself has nothing really to do with the marriage or the affair.

 

I do not mean to be evasive, but suffice it to say this:

 

I experienced a tremendous amount of loss in my life in a short amount of time, between 1999 and 2001. The losses were tragic and traumatic. I had the rug pulled out from under me. My life changed dramatically and drastically. My life became something that I no longer recognized. I didn't ask for it. I didn't bargain for it. It was thrust upon me. I had no control over any of it.

 

I went into a period of virtual isolation for the next few years, caring for an ailing parent with dementia. My reality did not extend beyond 4 walls, hospital stays, constant stress, worry and exhaustion. I certainly was not living the life of a person my age.

 

I never recovered from these losses and the isolation/withdrawal from the real world totally disoriented me.

 

I reached a point where I didn't know who I was anymore. And when my time as caregiver came to an end, I no longer knew what my purpose in life was. I lost all direction. I looked at my life and my surroundings and realized it looked nothing like what it did prior to the year 2000. I felt like I was in someone else's life. Where did my fairytale life go? I felt like someone had stolen it from me. I wanted it back.

 

At some point, three years ago, my husband and I looked at each other and realized we were miles apart from each other. It scared me and I wanted to go to MC. He said we didn't need it. We could fix it on our own.

 

The thing is, Dexter, it wasn't really the marriage that needed fixed. It was me. Neither one of us really realized this at the time.

 

We tried to reconnect but it wasn't working. We grew more distant and we both became frustrated and irritable. He lashed out at me. I withdrew. I started to pull away from him because it hurt too much to try to get close. It was "safer" and easier to just maintain the status quo.

 

I did start to take some steps to try to heal myself. I took up some activities and hobbies I enjoyed. I tried to get closer to God (I had been angry at him for a long time). And I felt it was time for me to find a full time job.

 

Reconnecting with the real world was like a breath of fresh air. I started to feel good about myself again and the life I was starting to lead. I felt like I was starting over and moving in a direction I had some control over.

 

But then I ran into trouble. I met the OM at work. I was still in a very vulnerable state. He was, too, having had his life turned upside down as well during this same period of time. We were just two vulnerable people trying to pick up the pieces of our broken lives. The relationship grew beyond what it should have.

 

During this time, my husband and I grew even more distant. We started to lead virtually separate lives. And, at some point, I just checked out of the marriage. I gave up. I didn't have the strength to work on it anymore.

 

The thing is it wasn't the marriage that was broken. It was me. We just didn't realize it. We do now.

 

I hope this answers your question.

[Athena]

Athena,

 

I think you should write a book about your husband's affair history. It would go a long way in wising up alot of very naive women.

 

And I think Reggie is right when he says sometimes you just don't know who you are dealing with..how to read a person...and that lack of ability to do this can leave you wide open to unbearable heartache....to the point where you don't even want to risk putting your heart on the line with anyone.

 

 

 

This sent a shiver down my spine.

 

Taylor, I could very well do that -- write a book to help wisen up naive would- be- OW. HOWEVER -- should that information fall into the wrong hands (Potential OM) then that would give them more ammunition and proven techniques on how to get OW into affairs.... I do not wish for liars to get any additional help in destroying people's hearts and marriages.

 

There are many innocent people who get tricked into what turns out to be a one-time affair for them, but who are being 'used' by very experienced cheaters... if you are naive then you do not have the understanding nor the tools to handle a would- be- charmer.

 

My husband has professed himself to be a Chameleon... this self-description is a red flag... it shows that he just portrays himself as whatever is needed for that particular situation... that he lacks the backbone of his own integrity.

Also, basically honest people have the tendency to judge others by their own standards of morals... wake up! There are sociopaths and others all around us who play by their own rules. You may even be married to one.

One thing I learned the long, hard, way.... judge by their actions and behaviors not by their silver tongues (what they say which sounds good and true).

[taylor]

I am with dexter on this one taylor. What does this mean ? Yes i would like to see some of the things i had seen in the past from my wife and I think i am already seeing a bit of it (and I love it!) but reality is it wont completely go back to that. I dont think you both want it go back to that.

 

Some things are permanently lost - for example - innocence, playful jokes and few others. That is the price we will pay for this.

 

65tr6,

 

I hope post 45 answers this question for you as well.

 

I think it would be foolish and unrealistic to think any marriage can go back to the way it was before an affair. The marriage is forever changed. We mourn the loss.

 

But if our goal is recovery then we need to believe that from this day forward we can build a marriage that is every bit as fulfilling as the one we dreamed of on the day we said "I do." And we need to be willing to work hard to make that dream a reality.

 

I think when people get married they have this dream of what a marriage looks like...a perfect image that will never, ever change. They lead their lives with this assumption. And then one day they realize the marriage did in fact change. It changed when they weren't looking. They didn't know to look...to check on it...because they never expected it to change.

 

Your marriage changed, 65, and in the worst way, and in a way that was out of your control. But now you and your wife have an opportunity to change it again, if you both are willing to work at it.

 

No, it won't ever look like what it did prior to the affair. And no, it won't ever look like the dream you had of it on your wedding day. But you and your wife together have the means to start all over again if that is your desire and if you are both willing to work. All possibilities start with a dream. It takes work to make that dream a reality. And who knows, the new marriage you create may just be better than the one you had.

 

Our MC told us to look at our marriage like a piece of Play-Doh. You built a marriage out of Play-Doh. It wasn't perfect. Your wife squished it down. You can continue to look at the piece of squished Play-Doh and mourn what you lost, or you can pick it up and start rebuilding it. If you decide you want to rebuild, you take that same piece of squished Play-Doh and you mold it into something completely different. It definitely won't look like the first Play-Doh creation because it's been redesigned..but it certainly can be better if you design it to be better than the first creation.

[Dexter Morgan]

He has been a total arse. What can I say to you?

 

You just said it. He has been a total arse. Sorry you have to deal with someone like that.

[65tr6]

Your marriage changed, 65, and in the worst way, and in a way that was out of your control. But now you and your wife have an opportunity to change it again, if you both are willing to work at it..

 

If i forget the affair then actually i already think my marriage is better...correction...my overall life is much better...for simple reason that we are communicating in a manner we never did before...and my relationship with my little son changed so much that i feel like i am on the Mount Everest. I have done it in a matter of months. My wife knows it and she saw all this happen in front of her own eyes in the last few months (ALL after d-day)...

 

BUT here is the part i dont like......

 

About my wife not connecting with me ...I know you said that is not a switch and i understand that it takes time...I start to wonder. This is just not right. Why should i continue to have feelings for her (I am not saying I dont want to put up a fight to save our marriage actually i do). Why should i continue to love my wife after all what she has done ? You would think after all this, I should have every right to feel angry and disgusted with her that I start to fall out of love with her. In reality, I feel the same way about her now as i did on the d-day. Absolutely no change. (ok, i was desparate back then). And that makes it even more hard for me. That is why i think it is SO difficult to recover if wife has an affair. There is always that dreaded emotional factor you have to deal with. With all the points for an against that i saw in this thread, I still think it is much easier to recover when men have affairs...assuming they get their act together and their spouse is willing to take them back....

 

I have no doubt this is going to take plenty of time. The thing is this whole experience has exposed both me and my wife as to what we are looking in a relationship. What our needs are. The issue is she is not ready to be back in a relationship! And unfortunately it took an affair for us to realize this. I know woman have great instincts in seeing some of this ahead of most men and i thought you mentioned to your husband about seeing a MC before you actually had the affair. I dont know if that would have helped or not.

 

You mentioned about both of us willing to work through it. taylor, there is one difference. When we got married, it was understood that that we will stay married. Now the premise has changed. We dont know what the future holds. I know my preference which is to stay in the marriage but at the same time I know she is not ready. And that makes it fairly difficult goal to work towards.

 

As far me, this whole thing has been a HUGE wake up call. I want us to live happily ever after but at same time I want to prepare myself for the worse case scenario. Does not make sense, does it ? I guess it is now my turn to go through conflicts !

[65tr6]

There are many innocent people who get tricked into what turns out to be a one-time affair for them, but who are being 'used' by very experienced cheaters... if you are naive then you do not have the understanding nor the tools to handle a would- be- charmer.

 

I agree with this. Even though i hold my wife 50% responsible for the affair, I feel she was completely duped. Yes she admits she was naive and immature to have done what she did.