Geishawhelk Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Well that's just awful, I'm sorry you went through that, so yes, I can well see how something like that would immediately cause you to put the shutters up.... Have you spoken in detail about this to your current GF/ex-GF? Does she know what the situation was? How would you like to be? Do you think you can be that way? What would stop you? How would you get over that? Don't answer any of those questions on-line. Think about them, if they're apt, and lay them in front of your therapist..... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 1, 2009 Author Share Posted February 1, 2009 All good questions. Been a tough weekend - I think it's really hit me as the friends I usually hang out with haven't been around, so I've had a lot of time ot myself. I went to the gym, and went over to spend the evening with my sister last night. Helped take my mind off things a little bit, but I do feel like there's a gaping whole. I figured I'd go look on a big dating site just to remind myself there's other people out there - started off thinking boohoo noone is as good, by the end there were 2 or 3 people I thought Hmmm maybe so that was a helpful excercise. I'm glad I have work tomorrow!! Well that's just awful, I'm sorry you went through that, so yes, I can well see how something like that would immediately cause you to put the shutters up.... Have you spoken in detail about this to your current GF/ex-GF? Does she know what the situation was? How would you like to be? Do you think you can be that way? What would stop you? How would you get over that? Don't answer any of those questions on-line. Think about them, if they're apt, and lay them in front of your therapist..... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 3, 2009 Author Share Posted February 3, 2009 Have had a really tough few days - last night I think it finally really hit me that I had to let go of our history in a way. I felt this great emptiness at the realisation that I'm starting to get that fuzzy impression round the edges of the memories of "us". I haven't seen or spoken to her on the phone since Sunday last week, apart from the emails. I just felt immense sadness - a bit like getting to the last page of an enjoyable book and not wanting it to end, but accepting that I'll have to move on to another story. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Well, just as expected I get an email this morning from her - I was planning on texting her to confirm a time for our meeting tomorrow but she beat me to it. Basically "How are you doing? I wasn't sure when would be a good time to get in touch... so thought I'd leave you alone for a little while. Are you still ok to meet tomorrow night for a drink? " And some comment about needing a letter from me to authorise the bank to remove my name from our shared account (which was hers anyway and I don't have money in it so no big deal) I initially started looking for things to analyse but none of it is significant I don't think, apart from the fact that nothing has changed - my name off the shared account, and her giving me space. She's almost irittatingly nice. The thing I'm currently worrying about is not being friend-zoned tomorrow... Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 She's already done it. You are already friend-zoned. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Do you mean by her breaking up with me? Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 No. By the way she's talking to you now, being ever-so-sweet and accommodating suggesting drinks or wouldn't it be nice to do this, or that....? She's slotted you into her friend category. She's being 'gentle' with you, because she knows the wound is still fresh. Kinda like the nurse who had to give you stitches, and is asking "And how are we today Mr Toodle?" in that talking-down-to-the-baby kind of placatory voice..... But you are definitely friend-zoned. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 She's been like that since the day she actually broke up with me. Whenever she's asked me how I was doing, I always say great thanks. Can I recover ever so slightly by being cool and detached and "obviously" fine tomorrow? Not that I'm planning on doing anything else. Or do I actually call her on it in my response and tell her (maybe teasingly) that I'm not a baby and she doesn;t have to patronise me? or is it a lost cause and nothing I do will make a difference, and I may as well just stop thinking about what her motives are, and just be my moving on self? Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 The answer to all of these questions lies not in what she'll carry on doing, but in what you decide to do. It depends on what you want to be to her. But if you don't want to be friend-zoned, then you have to detach and do something about it. You either have to ask her to respect your space, or come to an arrangement with her. The ball is in your court. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 Thanks for your good advice as always Geishawhelk. Food for thought. I doubt she's in any place to come to an arrangement- I think it's obvious where she stands. I'm going to think about what I do next - I'll be back Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 quick update on how our meeting up went last night. Started off reasonably well, I kept the convo light on on general topics. about 30mns in, she said she was very apprehensive coming into this meeting, and that that it felt weird talking about general things. She said she was worried it would "set her back" seeing me, but that she'd wanted to. I suggested that we not see each other for a while but she didn't like the sound of that. I suggested having another drink but she turned it down. I may have rushed to conclusions a bit and started putting my coat on, and she asked if that was ok and I said that I wanted to leave also. She asked me again how I was, emphasising. I oprobably shot myself in the foot, but I said that since I didn;t know her motives for asking me, I would stick to "fine". That I was looking after myself etc and was doing ok. I then said that I felt a bit patronised by her asking me as it wasn't for her to "look after me", and then talked about how I didn't know whether she was asking out of guilt, disappointment in me not breaking down or what. She got defensive at this point and admitted there was some guilt, but that she was being caring, not manipulative. I left it at that and just re-emphasised that we couldn't help each other through this. When we were walking back she said that at times we seemed to be getting on really well, and at others that I seemed to be grinding my teeth. I said I wasn't aware of that. Then there was a bit of an awkward goodbye, I just hugged her gently then turned away to leave. I feel frustrated she brought up the weirdness of us meeting as it had been going well, and I think I could have reacted better. It did set me back a bit but at the same time, I feel that little bit closer to full acceptance that it's over. Having said that, she still seems conflicted in her behaviour. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Toodle, she's conflicted because it's selfish, but she would never admit to it or see it. In fact, she even said that part of it is guilt, so there's a partial admission right there. The other factor is that she still needs to know she has part of your heart. Put it this way: If you'd turned round last night and said to her - "well frankly, I can't think about you or your feelings in this. I actually don't give a damn about you, because I'm going through a healing process for me." Tell me she wouldn't have been hurt or mortified by your words. of course she would have been, because she broke up with you, but she still expects you to care for her. This is another revealing comment: When we were walking back she said that at times we seemed to be getting on really well, and at others that I seemed to be grinding my teeth. Love it. She puts all the onus on you when things seem stiff. What the hell does she expect - ?? For you to be all hunky-dory, lovey-dovey and sweet-as-pie because she broke up with you....?? Yes. That's exactly what she expects. You see now, why people are urged to go no contact for everything except the practical and necessary? She's expecting you to feel absolutely Ok about everything, and feels resentful when you don't because it makes her feel guilty. Ferchrissakes, gimme a break!! Now do you see why you were advised at the beginning of this thread to keep it as distant and brief as possible? Because she's simpering and wanting to still be in your favour, 100%, whilst at the same time not having to make any effort herself. Hell----llooooo??? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 Love it. She puts all the onus on you when things seem stiff. What the hell does she expect - ?? For you to be all hunky-dory, lovey-dovey and sweet-as-pie because she broke up with you....?? Totally agree with you. I was a bit taken aback by that. My impression was that the fact that we were getting on fine (and I was back to myself from when we first met, cool, distant but pleasant and confident) bothered her so much that she felt the need to throw a spanner in the works and bring up "weirdness". Is that a fair assessment? Her body language was very positive up until that point, so I do wonder whether her defense mechanism kicked in. Anyway, we left it open - like I said the goodbye was a bit awkward in that we didn't make plans at all. I think I said something along the lines of "see you around" and left. The closest we came to ackowledging any future interaction was the bit where she said it was hard seeing me, and I said we don't have to and she looed a bit panicked. As far as I am concerned, back to NC/slow responding to her contact, and to working on myself. One thing I'm not understanding quite right is - if she expresses a doubt like this ie. trying to pop out whether I'm ok, I thought the best response is yes I'm fine thanks. You seem to be suggesting it has more effect to say no I'm not? (ie she seems bothered by my unconscious grinding of teeth - which I still don't feel happened, I think its more an analogy for mild dinsinterest which I was displaying at times) Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 Actually, something else came back to me. On the odd occasion, and last night, she has referred to us no longer living together. For example last night we were talking about the journey to work (we go to the same train station, but have never seen each other) and I mentioned one morning I left early. She said "Must be a lot easier leaving early now that you don;t have to wait for me to get ready in the mornings". How do I respond to this? I think I just shrugged at the time. Another example is her saying a while ago that I must be glad I wouldn't have to put up with her nagging anymore. Again I think I was dismissive. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 One thing I'm not understanding quite right is - if she expresses a doubt like this ie. trying to pop out whether I'm ok, I thought the best response is yes I'm fine thanks. You seem to be suggesting it has more effect to say no I'm not? (ie she seems bothered by my unconscious grinding of teeth - which I still don't feel happened, I think its more an analogy for mild dinsinterest which I was displaying at times) In my opinion (and granted, it's not something you would make a habit of) to just once reply to her - "How do you expect me to be? You dumped me then you expect to carry on in a friendly way as if nothing has happened! Well I'm not always fine, and it would help me if you didn't pretend it was, because it isn't. Does that answer your question?" I think it would drive the message home and give her some idea of how to change her attitude when she does see you. Actually, something else came back to me. ....I mentioned one morning I left early. She said "Must be a lot easier leaving early now that you don;t have to wait for me to get ready in the mornings". How do I respond to this? I think I just shrugged at the time. Another example is her saying a while ago that I must be glad I wouldn't have to put up with her nagging anymore. Again I think I was dismissive. She's fishing for compliments. She wanted you to say (in the first instance) that no, you never minded waiting for her, and (in the second instance) that you never thought she was a nag. She wants to make sure she still looks good in her own eyes, because she wants to still look good in yours. she's really very selfish, you know that? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 Her selfishness is becoming more and more apparent I figured she probably was fishing for compliments - I suppose saying yes its great now is just nasty, so I'll stick to metaphorically shrugging my shoulders if it comes up again. I think I may have actually said the above about her breaking up with me. She was moaning about how her brother hadn't called her to check up on her since we broke up (he IMed me twice to offer an ear if I needed it - I called him once briefly last week cos I felt obligated and we get on, which resulted in him telling their mum that I was an inspiration in my reaction, and her hearing that). She said she'd gone as far as go up to see him when hi ex dumped him. I think I just said, well, you should speak to him about it - might be cos you're the one who did the dumping. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Yes, and she's not listening, is she? So I think you should show a little bit of anger or irritation. I think in my opinion that would be your right. You're justified, because as things stand, she really doesn't get it. I think a bit of a raised voice and slightly fiery response would be in order. If she then protests that there's no need to get so mad about it, ask her 'why not?' Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 I guess not. I told her that we couldn't talk about these things together, as we both had ourselves to look after and can't worry about the other person, to which she replied she understood but couldn't help worrying about me being ok. I told her I don't need her to worry about me and that I'm not a baby (this is when I told her not to patronise me) I guess if she keeps it up I'll tell her to stop firmly and raise anger if she pushes, like you said. It is becoming quite irritating because it feels like she's using it as a way of keeping our relationship on her level ie. as a dumper. I can see how she might be feeling rejected by me and wondering whether she still holds all the cards. Prob a bit of a power play taking place here. I suppose what I'm scared of is coming across as uncaring and hence a bast*rd, and making her feel justified in leaving me. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 ...... I suppose what I'm scared of is coming across as uncaring and hence a bast*rd, and making her feel justified in leaving me. No. Hang on. You weren't an uncaring bastard when she dumped you, and she'd known you long enough to know what you're like. You are a nice, friendly considerate guy, and THAT'S the guy she dumped. You know, if people crap on us, and then keep crapping on us, making out that it's ok and they care, when they make it patently obvious that actually, it's themselves they care about first and foremost - It's OK to be a bit angry and just bite back a bit. Even the most good-natured, gentle dog will turn and snap, if someone keeps poking them with a stick. Nobody would call the dog an uncaring bastard. It would be perfectly within character, given the circumstances. I think you'd be perfectly within your rights to - honestly? - Man up a bit. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 Fair enough. I am very capable of slipping into nasty though which is the bit I worry about. I'll talk to my therapist about the distinction next time I see her! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 Been in NC since Friday morning, so today is the 5th day. I feel like I'm coming off crack or something :/ I've gone through a great day on Saturday, Suicidal thoughts on Sunday, an overwhelming desire to just give in to her wish to be friends and contact her on Monday, to numbness today. All over the place emotionally +1 to me: I arranged to go to Sweden to learn snowboarding on a press trip today, end of March. 4 day break, 5* hotel, all paid for by the press agency. This is something that during our relationship, I wouldn't do. I guess because I was scared of not being around her. Silly really. So I'm going to keep saying yes to them from now on - should take me around the world in no time, and give me something to look forward to Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Toodle....... good for you! You'll soon have a girl in every port, in no time - !! Your withdrawal symptoms seem to indicate you were more into this relationship than even you realised. You'd slipped into a comfortable zone of being there for her when it suited her, and you were under the impression it would be ok for you too... but things rarely - if ever - work out that way for the dumped person. I hope the symptoms pass soon, and that you start feeling better about things. I think this trip away will work wonders for you. The day will come when you think about her - and you'll realise you haven't been thinking about her. All the best. Stay strong, my friend! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 You'd slipped into a comfortable zone of being there for her when it suited her, and you were under the impression it would be ok for you too... but things rarely - if ever - work out that way for the dumped person.This is a common theme in my relationships. When I saw her last Thursday she asked me what I was planning with my weekends and I mentioned very briefly about these types of trips, and her eyes lit up and she said wow, you never did that while we were together. I can see how I gradually became boring. I think I bored myself too, which led to misplaced resentment etc. Annoyingly, and without wanting to diminish her own responsibility in all fo this, I am slowly seeing where my own issues failed me. I do think, selfish as she is, that she's a great person, and she did put up with a lot over the years. The best thing I can do for both of us is mature and become a better person. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodle Posted February 11, 2009 Author Share Posted February 11, 2009 Got a queasy tummy today, but that's probably more to do with the orange juice I had on an empty stomach. Day 6 of NC - not heard from her at all, but after my little outburst when we saw each other last, I reckon I must have offended her by suggesting her concern for me was selfish and her motives dubious. Plus she did all the contacting last time so I guess it's technically my turn, which I know is not a good idea. I do want to apologise for snapping at her, but don't know how. Next drama - next week is our company's (we work together, but in different offices thankfully) yearly awards ceremony. I'm guessing she'll be there. I'm very apprehensive about it because there will also be a number of people who are her friends and used to be common friends who I haven't talked to since the breakup. I know I have to remain calm, keep interaction with her polite and brief. But I'm sh*tting myself. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 The apprehension is usually worse than the occasion. Things will have progressed by then. Don't contact her, and as you say, stay calm and aloof whan you see her. And for goodness' sake, don't over-do the alcohol! Bad, Toodle, Bad!! Link to post Share on other sites
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