Update

[Alpha Female]

Spookie, when you said that the HR people were really really positive about you and trying so hard to find you a new spot because they'd hate to lose you...

 

...my first thought was that they were handling you with kid gloves and being overly nice about accommodating you to head off any potential lawsuits.

 

Not that you're not good at your job...but if this is the first time you've ever heard such glowing feedback from these folks... I'd think twice about how genuine it is.

 

Exactly what I said earlier. The tell-tale sign was HR telling her that "this happens all the time." No, it most certainly doesn't. In fact, it never happens.

[Citizen Erased]

Exactly what I said earlier. The tell-tale sign was HR telling her that "this happens all the time." No, it most certainly doesn't. In fact, it never happens.

 

Did it ever occur to you that not all company HR policies are the same as the places you have worked at?

[Trialbyfire]

In Jack's favour, he immediately reported the situation to HR. If he was guilty of inappropriate behaviour with a staff member, more than likely he would have tried to hide it by convincing the staff member not to transfer, even to the point of dating her. This is why I previously posted that he was a smart guy, who was going places. He's in essence washed his hands clean of the situation. Now he has to bide his time until action has been taken by HR. Once this has happened, he's free.

[Alpha Female]

Did it ever occur to you that not all company HR policies are the same as the places you have worked at?

 

Well unless shes working in a brothel, I dont think any HR department would be encouraging any part of this.

[Alpha Female]

In Jack's favour, he immediately reported the situation to HR. If he was guilty of inappropriate behaviour with a staff member, more than likely he would have tried to hide it by convincing the staff member not to transfer, even to the point of dating her. This is why I previously posted that he was a smart guy, who was going places. He's in essence washed his hands clean of the situation. Now he has to bide his time until action has been taken by HR. Once this has happened, he's free.

 

Yes, absolutely. He was trying to distance himself as quickly and cleanly as possible. Clearly. Im sure it wasn't an enjoyable conversation for him to have with HR or his boss. Still doesn't mean a shred of doubt hasn't been cast.

[Trialbyfire]

Yes, absolutely. He was trying to distance himself as quickly and cleanly as possible. Clearly. Im sure it wasn't an enjoyable conversation for him to have with HR or his boss. Still doesn't mean a shred of doubt hasn't been cast.

As long as there's no further drama from spookie or other female staff members, he should be okay. From what spookie has previously posted, he's a very attractive, dynamic individual so they will also take that into account, as well as her age, which is 22, btw.

 

Spookie also needs to keep her head down and her nose clean for as long as humanly possible. If more drama ensues, it will help to build a stronger case. She'd better hope and pray that there's no office gossip about her married ex-lover and that HR doesn't hear about that too.

 

Previous to becoming self-employed, my positions were as a partner or in management, in corporations. I've honestly never heard of anyone requesting a transfer due to obsession. Most transfers requested, from what I recall, were due to differences between supervisory/mgmt staff and staff, peers or a job opening the employee wanted.

[Alpha Female]

I've honestly never heard of anyone requesting a transfer due to obsession.

 

That's because doing so, is well, nutty. It's pretty Fatal Attraction, really.

[imani]

Well unless shes working in a brothel, I dont think any HR department would be encouraging any part of this.

 

Good point. But what about companies that would rehire or keep an employee known for sleeping around with coworkers on the job and in essence rewarding that type of behaviour. (I'm not saying this is you Spook, I'm just asking a seperate question on the flip side of a scenario like yours.) Wouldn't that send a bad message to all employees as well?

 

I've noticed that some companies and their higher-ups will choose to turn a blind eye to such behaviour as long as the person's work is top notch. It doesn't make it right, but I've seen it happen more than once. There are those companies that just don't care about the extra-carricular activities of their staff, nor do they care about how it affects moral. They're an oddity but maybe Spookie works for one of those type of places.

[Trialbyfire]

Sleeping around with office staff isn't as big a deal as causing office drama which disrupts productivity and workflow. Also, once you bring in HR, it's escalated the problem. HR's primary task is to attempt to mitigate any firm liability, such as sexual harassment.

[BlueEyedGirl]

I really do not think it is that unusual. I have had a crush on my married boss for over 2 years and was on the verge of quiting or asking for a transfer many times. I think that lots of the time this happens people don't admit their reasons for transfer but make up some BS story so that's why you might not have heard about it. I think spookie is very brave to admit to something like this openly.

[BlueEyedGirl]

Also, I am kind of annoyed that there are now all these people that are saying they work/ed in HR and how this was a bad move. Where were you all when spookie posted countless threads about this issue and wanting a transfer? Some of you are regular posters so I don't see how you could have missed her threads and at least inform her how her actions might affect her....

[Dumbledore]

The sooner she gets her transfer, the sooner she and her ex-boss can be having uncomplicated, guilt-free sex. How can that possibly be a bad thing?!

 

The big boss seems desperate to keep her, so all is how it should be.

[JamesM]

James, you wrote you worked in HR, too. Then you know that you never have a female request a transfer for a "crush".

 

No, usually it is because the opposite is true...the boss had the "crush." That is why this is sticky for Jack.

 

Side note....I had an employee who had a "crush" on me, and her supervisor (a woman) never told me until after this employee left. Why? So that I was not put into an uncomfortable position. Yet because I did not know, I COULD have been put into quite a position.

 

As for the strangest confession from an employee, it would have to be the girl who was in my office for her starting info interview. She blurted out that he husband was impotent. This is a true story. And she looked at ME as if I could do something about it. I cannot remember what I said, but I do know that I had her out to her supervisor as fast as I could. (Same woman as above). I did tell the supervisor of the story as a pre-warning. The story ended up rather sadly. A few weeks later, there was a party that she attended with another employee. Supposedly a guy there (not an employee) had "raped" her. Her husband was in my office the next day telling me about it and trying to drag our company into the situation. All I could think of is...so YOU are impotent? BTW, the "story on the street" was that there was no rape. It only became rape after the husband found out. Both women left the company on their own, and we were not dragged into any court case...if there ever was one.

 

So confessions are not always what they are cracked up to be.

 

I think that lots of the time this happens people don't admit their reasons for transfer but make up some BS story so that's why you might not have heard about it. I think spookie is very brave to admit to something like this openly.

 

Many times the "BS story" is the better way to go. Spookie is brave and honest, but it may create more hassles than are necessary.

 

Also, I am kind of annoyed that there are now all these people that are saying they work/ed in HR and how this was a bad move. Where were you all when spookie posted countless threads about this issue and wanting a transfer? Some of you are regular posters so I don't see how you could have missed her threads and at least inform her how her actions might affect her....

 

If I read every thread and kept up on every post, then I would get nothing done.

 

Spookie as many of us vent here without actually going through with an action. Some post while drunk, and later realize that it is not something they would really consider.

 

I certainly have missed where she was going to ask for a transfer. While she may have posted "countless" threads about her boss, I don't recall on the ones I read that she was ready for a transfer. I did read about wanting to tell the boss her feelings once or twice.

 

And I have learned that it isn't often that such warnings are even heeded. Spookie has had a crush on this guy for awhile. I am guessing that some faceless poster telling her that a disclosure of such feelings would harm her future and his...would not have made a difference in her actions. Again, I could be wrong.

 

The sooner she gets her transfer, the sooner she and her ex-boss can be having uncomplicated, guilt-free sex. How can that possibly be a bad thing?!

 

I am guessing that this is the first time I have quoted you , but if you take this seriously, I think Spookie's motive (and I may be wrong) is that she wanted the boss to know her feelings not so much as to get the transfer, but she wanted him to know so that after she was gone...or even while she was at the job, he would call her.

[CommitmentPhobe]

That's not the way it works in cases such as this.

 

Maybe at your company, but not all companies HR people are ignoramuses. Not all corporate cultures are ones of gossip and treating people like liabilities. On a final note, HR people really should know their place, in the food chain you are servers not creators. You don't have half the power that you are proclaiming you do on this thread and if you do then your company is seriously messed up.

 

I wouldn't work at a company like yours and if I did, I'd certainly have a run in with you.

[JamesM]

Maybe at your company, but not all companies HR people are ignoramuses. Not all corporate cultures are ones of gossip and treating people like liabilities. On a final note, HR people really should know their place, in the food chain you are servers not creators. You don't have half the power that you are proclaiming you do on this thread and if you do then your company is seriously messed up.

 

I wouldn't work at a company like yours and if I did, I'd certainly have a run in with you.

 

Thank you for your unnecessary criticism.

 

Speaking from an HR perspective and an Operations Management perspective, alot goes on behind the scenes of any "caring" HR Department. The job of management is to manage, and HR manages the people resources.

 

HR must be one step ahead. In this case hypothetically, they need to be prepared for the worst case scenario.

 

Letting one employee "ruin" it for the rest of the employees is NOT thinking of all the employees.

 

As for the amount of power....whose job is it to hire and fire? Who decides pay raises and decreases? Management...with the advice of HR.

 

Fact is...management works for the COMPANY and NOT the employees. HR makes the rules and policies and supervisors and managers enforce them. HR creates and serves...but not necessarily the employees...at least not in the way you may think.

 

HR gets paid to manage people...not to BE managed by the people. Employees that can be managed are assets. Employees who cannot be managed are liabilities.

[sunshinegirl]

The US has become an increasingly litigious society over the last couple of decades, and as such my impression is that the HR function has become increasingly risk-averse. Their job, their function in a company, is to protect the company from potential financial or reputational harm from lawsuits that may or may not be well-founded. Don't get pissy at them, they're just trying to do their job! If people weren't so sue-crazy, the HR function might look really different.

 

I worked for a laid back non-profit organization in DC and I once had a terrible, TERRIBLE intern whom I would have given a bad reference had anyone asked. The head of HR, a friend of mine, warned me against doing that, and especially doing it in writing, because it could become evidence in any kind of suit that the former intern might try to file against the organization. I thought - what?? That's crazy, she WAS a terrible intern. Why can't I speak the truth about that? And what would she sue the organization for, anyway? She agreed with me but said for legal liability reasons I needed to avoid speaking that truth so bluntly. She coached me in "veiled" ways to convey the message to anyone calling on a reference for that woman, without directly criticizing her.

[Touche]

Maybe at your company, but not all companies HR people are ignoramuses. Not all corporate cultures are ones of gossip and treating people like liabilities. On a final note, HR people really should know their place, in the food chain you are servers not creators. You don't have half the power that you are proclaiming you do on this thread and if you do then your company is seriously messed up.

 

I wouldn't work at a company like yours and if I did, I'd certainly have a run in with you.

 

Thank you. Couldn't agree more. And as I've said my client contacts were mainly HR directors. (Of course as manager of a staffing agency I was myself an "HR type" but not quite in the same way.)

 

I'm sure this goes on more than one would guess only in most cases I'd imagine that the manager/boss would just request the transfer and not give the real reason. HR in most cases would have no clue. Spookie's case is just unusual in that she was honest. And it sounds like they admired that.

 

As far as I could see most HR directors were basically glorified secretaries there to do the dept. heads' bidding. Most didn't even have final say in who was hired for the company...the heads of whatever dept they were hiring for did. They HR directors basically just did the preliminary leg work...in other words the recruiting. But they had zero decision-making powers.

 

In my position, I actually had final say in hiring/firing for all of our temps plus my permanent office staff, pay scales, policies etc. etc.

 

Anyway, I'm not too surprised at the over the top over-reaction were seeing by some here. I saw that kind of mentality all the time. Even the individual department heads/managers used to make fun of the HR departments in their own companies. It was kind of funny really.

[Touche]

HR gets paid to manage people...not to BE managed by the people.

 

I just saw this post of yours, James. That's not what I saw. The actual managers and supervisors were managing the employees...not the HR people.

 

And sunshinegirl isn't that crazy about the references? Yep. I was the person people called to give a reference for any of our employees and I had to really watch how I worded things and what I said. Of course I had my way of conveying whether the employee was any good or not.

[Lucky_One]

"Even the individual department heads/managers used to make fun of the HR departments in their own companies. It was kind of funny really."

 

And IT makes fun of QA. And QA makes fun of R&D. And R&D makes fun of the lab.

 

Everyone talks smack about each other. HR isn't getting any sort of special ragging.

 

I think that some of you must work for odd (or small) corps. HR is a pretty big deal in major businesses.

 

Someone said that if posters had negatives to say about Spookie blabbing about her crush to her super, then why didn't they say something earlier. Spookie seems to have some issues with reality, and honestly when I read about her desire for a transfer, I figured she was just talking or was just drunk-venting. Going back and reading how people encouraged her to talk about this makes me wonder the opposite - why in the world would anyone encourage her to discuss her personal emotions and to say that she couldn't handle workign with him - esp when he has never given her any sort of romantic encouragement in all these months?

 

So the question becomes not Why didn't someone speak against it, but Why would anyone encourage reckless behavior in a young woman who has had issues with making good decisions in the past anyway?

[Touche]

"Even the individual department heads/managers used to make fun of the HR departments in their own companies. It was kind of funny really."

 

And IT makes fun of QA. And QA makes fun of R&D. And R&D makes fun of the lab.

 

Everyone talks smack about each other. HR isn't getting any sort of special ragging.

 

Well, I must say you have a point there. It just seemed to me that HR got the worst of it and was the thorn in many a manager's side.

 

I think that some of you must work for odd (or small) corps. HR is a pretty big deal in major businesses.

 

Someone said that if posters had negatives to say about Spookie blabbing about her crush to her super, then why didn't they say something earlier. Spookie seems to have some issues with reality, and honestly when I read about her desire for a transfer, I figured she was just talking or was just drunk-venting. Going back and reading how people encouraged her to talk about this makes me wonder the opposite - why in the world would anyone encourage her to discuss her personal emotions and to say that she couldn't handle workign with him - esp when he has never given her any sort of romantic encouragement in all these months?

 

So the question becomes not Why didn't someone speak against it, but Why would anyone encourage reckless behavior in a young woman who has had issues with making good decisions in the past anyway?

 

As for the above in bold. That wasn't the impression I got at all. Had it been, I would have advised her differently. I don't feel like going back and looking through her posts but I got the impression, rightly or wrongly, that the boss was subtly sending out signals of his own. Maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe Spookie misread him. I don't know. That's just the impression I was given and that's why I advised her as I did.

 

I'd imagine, and I can't speak for the others who advised her as I did, that they got that same impression as well.

[Trialbyfire]

Also, I am kind of annoyed that there are now all these people that are saying they work/ed in HR and how this was a bad move. Where were you all when spookie posted countless threads about this issue and wanting a transfer? Some of you are regular posters so I don't see how you could have missed her threads and at least inform her how her actions might affect her....

Do you have any idea how many times people have told her not to make foolish decisions? Do you realize that not once has spookie listened? Why do you feel this time would be any different? At least now, she's getting the benefit of knowing what might happen or could potentially be happening in the background.

 

While people merrily go along thinking that the workplace is a hunting ground for romance, it's primarily a place where they pay people to WORK. If the employee isn't working for the benefit of the company or causing unnecessary personal drama, they're viewed as a liability and treated as such. There's a balancing act between productive employee and liability.

 

For that matter, do you honestly think that it's everyone's responsibility to take care of spookie? People post when they want. They have no responsibility to any member, especially to post when they know it's an exercise in futility.

[CommitmentPhobe]

The job of management is to manage, and HR manages the people resources.

 

The only thing HR is capable of mananging is paperwork. It's not a role that needs any specific qualifications, it's not creative, it's not value adding. It's not something that anyone with any capability is inspired to go into.

 

It's there so that the directors and other value adding employees don't have to do paperwork.

 

If HR is advising on who should be sacked it certainly is a pretty shoddy operation if this is measured on an employee feeling uncomfortable with their boss for whatever reason rather than the value they add to the company.

 

Frankly if that's how the company is run then spookie is better off out of an environment of low value drones.

[sunshinegirl]

The only thing HR is capable of mananging is paperwork. It's not a role that needs any specific qualifications, it's not creative, it's not value adding. It's not something that anyone with any capability is inspired to go into.

 

Pure, unadulterated baloney.

[Lucky_One]

If HR is advising on who should be sacked it certainly is a pretty shoddy operation if this is measured on an employee feeling uncomfortable with their boss for whatever reason rather than the value they add to the company.

 

That's so ridiculous that it's almost cute - soprt of like laughing at blonde jokes while brushing back my blonde locks.

 

Honestly, if Disney wasn't such a giant, professionally run corporation, then I would think you were working with Mickey Mouse.

[JamesM]

Interesting turn of a thread.

 

Touche, you are right in that some companies do manage the people without HR. Yet others (most large ones) need a sign off from someone in HR as to the legality of the decision...not the actual making of the decision.

 

I worked at a company for awhile that didn't have an HR at all, and it was up to the supervisors to decide with the approval of the Operations Manager.

 

CP, reality is...many, many things go on behind the scenes in every company which never get passed on to the hourly workers. By the time the memo or newsletter gets to the actual employees, every word has been put there with preparation.

 

The value of an employee is determined by more than his or her ability to perform. Some of the best workers I have seen could not work with other people and hence, were actually of no overall value to the department, and I have also seen employees who were excellent workers but were not reliable in attendance or attitude.

 

So, if we take Spookie's case to the extreme, management is considering how her performance is and how here attitude is and how her emotions with her boss are. (And yes, I have known of a couple of employees who "fall in love" with most of their bosses...unfortunately, I was one).

 

The phrase is used in HR that people must be thought of as human machines. Just as the mechanic does everything to be certain that the machine is well oiled and bad parts replaced, so the management must be certain that its people are capable of performing up to their best. And to take it one step farther, the manager must be certain his department...as like a machine...has all of its parts (each person) working together to get the job done.