So what are the chances this would work?

[KismetGirl]

I suspect I know what most people will say (and to be honest Im skeptical myself....but....)

 

Ok, so, a week ago, as you all know, after not speaking to or seeing MM for over two months after our "break up" due to his pre-holiday guilt-fit, he stopped by my place to give me a letter and we end up sleeping together. No surprise there.

 

That same day I told him that if I had to choose between sleeping with him again and never being able to see him after a period of time if he freaks out from the guilt again, OR, to NOT sleep with him anymore but be able to see him regularly as friends, that I would rather just be friends because, in all honesty, yes, I love sex with him, but I also really just...love him. When I don't see him or talk to him, I miss him terribly. So, I proposed this to him: I said, obviously, that I enjoy sex with him, and want it , but if it means he's going to keep having sporadic bouts of freaking out from guilt and not speaking to me here and there, I couldn't deal with that rollercoaster, and I'd honestly rather be friends if it meant I could just see him, talk to him, hug him. It's the first time since I've known him I have tried to put my foot down and say that if he ever tried to just break things off with me again , then that would be it, so either we do this, or we just stay friends. It may not sound like much when I type it out, but I've never threatened him before with being the one to end things before. Never even hinted at it before.

 

So, he writes me an email two days later that says something along the lines of "hey babe. I've been thinking the past couple of days, a lot, and I think i want to try to take you up on your offer of being friends without fooling around. Apparently my ability to not drive myself crazy with paranoia after we hook up hasn't diminished, so maybe it would be good for both of us to try being platonic. But I do miss you too, so tell me when you're free this week and we'll just hang out or something. xx"

 

So, in a way I was happy, because it meant that perhaps he cares about me enough that he also wants to be able to see me, even if it means nothing physical happens between us. So, I told him I was off of work today and he stopped by. We kind of lay there hugging and talking for a while, and there was obviously alot of tension. Admittedly I don't make things easier for him when I'm laying my leg across him with my boobs pressed against his chest.....so Im telling him about some funny text a mutual friend sent me, and while Im looking through my phone for the text, he kind of is playing with the string on my pajama pants, and I asked him what he was doing. He just stared at me and stated quite matter-of-fact, as if asking for a cup of tea, "Do you mind if I go down on you while you're looking through that". Yeah....so I said ok. Not very platonic of us, I know. After this we're talking again, but still haven't had sex. He tells me that this friend ship thing is probably not going to work well if we're alone at my home. I said that's probably true. he says he still wants to see me so maybe we should try just meeting in public from now on. I say ok. I'm already laying there with no pants on after he's gone down on me so we figure, ok....just one...more....time. Awesome, amazing, passionate, ridiculously good sex ensues. All the stress I've been feeling for weeks seems to melt away as we lay there afterwards for a couple hours just talking and touching. The last couple of weeks we've been speaking in a very different way....I don't know how to describe it. Almost like in the back of his mind he's wonderinf if he's really going to stay married to this woman forever. I think he's more scared by the concept of a divorce (catholic upbringing...) and not being with the kids all the time, than of not being with his wife. I tell him in a joking manner that I wish we'd just keep sleeping together until my test was over in May because I am a much more relaxed and focused person when Im getting laid regularly (and I really am, it isn't a line. Maybe it's not normal for a girl but my drive is ridiculously high, to the point where I can't focus if I haven't had any in a while. I'm like a freaking man or something.) He says, "aren't all people more happy if they're getting laid?"

 

I say "no, not really. Some people, they'll do it once in a while, they don't necessarily hate it, but they could take it or leave it, maybe they just do it cause they think their partner wants it, not because they're very interested in it, it doesn't make much difference to them if they have it". he's quiet for a second and mutters, "You've just described my wife to a T" and grunts in frustration. Just like four years ago when he told me there was no "spark" between him and her. The more we talk, the more Im convinced that their marriage is more like two friends than two people who have a romantic connection. And no, he doesnt' tell me these things to keep me interested or whatever.....he knows damn well he doesn't have to say a word to me to keep me wanting him. I don't sleep with him out of pity that he's lacking a solid marriage. I do it because , shocking, I really like him. I may love sex, but I don't do it with people I'm not very interested in generally, because otherwise it's usually boring when there isn't a good spark or connection.

 

Anyway, I guess after all this rambling, Im sitting here and wondering if a friendship is even possible. Obviously it wont work too well if we let ourselves be alone, but, if we only met in public, or had lunch, or something like that, nothing physical can happen, right? It's not like we're going to have sex in the middle of a restaurant.

 

I guess Im just trying to convince myself that this could work because, the last two months before we saw each other again recently, it's indescribable how much I missed him. All I wanted was to just see him and hug him. that's it, I swear. Sex is something i like with him, but it was just SEEING him and his smile and being able to hug him that I missed more than anything.

 

So I guess, perhaps not even specifically in my situation, but in any situation where two people have such an intense connection and sexual tension, do you think it's even remotely possible for them to be "friends" if they REALLY try? granted, perhaps their track record of being platonic hasn't been the most impressive, but is it possible ?

 

Don't know. My heads a little....swirling right now. But I feel a little happy. I haven't felt that way in a while. I feel....calm. I studied today for six hours! I saw my psychiatrist and he said it was the first time since he's started to see me over four months that I've seemed even remotely content.

 

Anyway....this is really long. Sorry. I ramble sometimes.

[awkward]

I read where you said you were going to post so I stuck around a bit. I was hoping you were in a better place and maybe you are.

 

Yeah I think it could work with a few conditions. But please stop believing him when he says he doesn't want to sleep with you. He is manipulating you.

 

Anyways, a friends with benefits type thing could work. But you are just delaying the pain. Maybe it will get you through your exams. Are you free from May to whenever to heal from this relationship? Also, as long as he keeps mind screwing you, you won't be content or happy. If he was honest then yes it could work. There are a lot of other things that I can think of right now, but I am sure others will point them out.

 

It really isn't about him anymore, it is about you. He is the same. He is doing the same thing, saying the same thing. Just take care of yourself. Inevitably, you will have to go through the pain that you are avoiding. What you are doing is coping.

[signedin2008]

So, in other words, you content to be a sxxx and a mistress?

 

Seriously, is there any guilt? Is there any shame? Do you have any conscience AT ALL?

[awkward]

I didn't have a chance to edit my post, but I wanted to add that I doubt you guys will meet in public next time. He wants sex. I wish he could be honest with you and stop playing these I'm such a good husband and don't want to cheat games with you.

 

I have spent way too much time on LS today. Stepping away from the computer. LOL

[2sure]

Its an affair whether or not you are having sex. Certainly lovers are also friends , however your relationship with MM is NOT platonic. Not having sex even though you want to, is not platonic.

 

So, since you are happy continuing the affair - why not have sex? What advantage is there to not having it?

 

I understand he says he gets paranoid after he has been with you and flip flops over whether he wants to see you. And then you get depressed. His paranoid feelings are that of a very married man. You are saying that to alleviate his guilt and paranoia, maybe not having sex will mean you can still see him? THATS depressing.

 

You are happy because you have seen him and again have hope you can continue to see him because he now he wont have to choose, since your "friends".

 

I'm positive he'll be ok with is. And you are. So, as far as an affair goes - what more is there to ask for? Why make the no sex condition, why make oral ok but not intercourse? Why even try?

 

Wouldnt it be more ideal to work on his not feeling guilty or paranoid at all?

[lkjh]

I didnt read it all but if what you are asking.........is it possible to be friends with the MM that you can not resist? Hahahahahah. No way! Just read your other post

[KismetGirl]

Its an affair whether or not you are having sex. Certainly lovers are also friends , however your relationship with MM is NOT platonic. Not having sex even though you want to, is not platonic.

 

So, since you are happy continuing the affair - why not have sex? What advantage is there to not having it?

 

I understand he says he gets paranoid after he has been with you and flip flops over whether he wants to see you. And then you get depressed. His paranoid feelings are that of a very married man. You are saying that to alleviate his guilt and paranoia, maybe not having sex will mean you can still see him? THATS depressing.

 

You are happy because you have seen him and again have hope you can continue to see him because he now he wont have to choose, since your "friends".

 

I'm positive he'll be ok with is. And you are. So, as far as an affair goes - what more is there to ask for? Why make the no sex condition, why make oral ok but not intercourse? Why even try?

 

Wouldnt it be more ideal to work on his not feeling guilty or paranoid at all?

 

Well, no, the oral thing and the sex that happened today obviously is not part of the plan to be friends. I told him today it had to be all or nothing (in a weird way, but hey, one step at a time...)- as in, either we continue to sleep together and hang out until I'm ok with ending it (meaning, no more of his "freak outs" where he ends things with me, because I think I get more upset when its just not in my control anymore), OR we can just be friends. I mean, I don't see how anything can happen if we strictly see each other in public, right?

 

I just don't know if Im fooling myself into thinking I really will be content with just seeing him platonically. I tell myself I will be, because yes, I do care about him, it isn't just a sexual attraction, and I tell myself that when you love someone you'd rather see them platonically, if that's what it takes , than to get sex and go through the rollercoaster of him getting a guilt-fit every year and breaking things off until we find an excuse to see each other again. I could be deluding myself I guess. I could just be using this as a coping mechanism to get my mind settled so I can get past my exam in May. I don't know. Before we slept together today, we really did just chill in my living room for a couple hours, talking, laughing, being relaxed. When he told me that he'd stop by today, I honestly had thought we would NOT sleep together today, and I was ok with it. Yes, I wanted to sleep with him, but I felt it would be ok if I didn't.....I just wanted to see him. It was actually really nice. You know, like when you look at a cute baby and your brain releases a flood of oxytocin and you just feel all happy and loving for no apparent reason.....that's what it feels like to just sit there with him even if we're not having sex. Weird huh....

[KismetGirl]

So, in other words, you content to be a sxxx and a mistress?

 

Seriously, is there any guilt? Is there any shame? Do you have any conscience AT ALL?

 

::rolls eyes::: oh its you again. Didnt I tell you that your posts were hurtful and unhelpful? Why do you insist on writing on my threads? I need to figure out how to block people.

 

In other news, no I have no conscience, you are SO right. How do you know me so well? I beat small children, I eat puppies, I steal from old ladies on sundays, I pee in the holy water at churches just to "stick it to the goys", and if I'm really bored, I switch the chemo bags in the cancer ward with bags of the holy water that I peed in. You know, just to see what happens. Because I'm a crap human being. Does that make you feel better now? Will you stop pestering me now? Christ.

[signedin2008]

Weird huh....

 

So, there is no guilt, shame, or conscience in you at all?

[KismetGirl]

PS- I mean, I don't WANT him to feel guilty. I'm not a totally selfish person who feels no guilt myself. I really would feel horrid if his wife found out, I never intended or embarked on this because I want to hurt her. I don't think he wants to hurt her either. But yes we're both adults, we make conscious decisions....but life isn't all about "bad" people and "good" people is it? People are not all or nothing. I dont know. Im torn between my feelings for him and the fact that I know he feels bad about what he does. I mean, he's a big boy, and I certainly do not put a gun to his head and force him to do me.....I put temptation in his way. I'll admit it: sometimes I pretty much shove temptation into his retinas. He could still say no. I could still say no. Im trying to grasp onto some way of having a middle ground so I don't have to spend this time missing him and hurting so badly when I have so much in my life going on. Maybe I am deluding myself that we can be friends. I dont know.

[Lucky_One]

Yeah, you are deluding yourself.

 

What sort of friend says "All i want from you is to be friends" and then squishs their boobs in a guy's face and drapes her legs all over him - and lets him eat her. You weren't trying to be his friend - you were trying to make him instigate sex so that you could say "But it wasn't ME - I just wanted to be friends!"

 

You are saying one thing, and doing another. Be honest with yourself.

[NoIDidn't]

No it can't work.

[Ocean-Blue]

The answer is quite obvious, isn't it? You just threw the "friends" label out there, to make yourselves feel better. So every time you "slip up" and have sex (in its many forms), you can always revert back to the "we're just friends; we didn't mean for it to happen." It's like by calling yourselves friends, you get to wipe the slate clean, every single time you are intimate.

 

You give him something his wife doesn't: SEX. Just imagine how much he'd want you if she were having passionate sex with him, if she were making him feel wanted and loved. Where will that leave you?

 

You are his ego booster. He comes to you, gets enough of a boost and then goes back to feeling "guilty"... It's a sad little cycle. It's really too bad that you can't see how damaging it is. You are doing yourself a great disservice by being with this liar and cheater. He is no catch, that's for sure.

[Reggie]

Sounds divine/dreamy. Once a soulmate always a soulmate. You go girl. You got it goin' on.:bunny:

[lkjh]

You ever notice that people who say things like there are no good and bad people, its not all or nothing, and this does not make me bad; are the ones doing really bad things. I dont want to be mean to you because in reality he is the one married but you are taking part in hurting his family. You are destroying another woman's life. Just cut this guy out before you become a 50 year OW.

[sadintexas]

Kismet,

 

No, it won't work. Been there done that. And meeting in public doesn't help...trust me on that one. All that accomplished was us doing it in more public places than I ever thought possible.

 

The draw and chemistry is too strong in my situation (and yours reads the same to me) to just be friends and not want to touch each other and carry on. And it has NEVER worked for us. We simply can't see each other because we both know what will happen. If you want to be friends with him (I'll admit, it will still be an EA but if you want to do it...) stick to non-personal contact only. Phones, texts, emails, whatever.

 

Frankly, that's just going to keep you tied to him anyway and it will turn back into a PA at some point (my guess is sooner than later). But you already know this, so making that final break can only come when you want it to. Taking this road of negotiating until you find a "happy place" is just prolonging this, but it's a road some of us have to take to get where we need to be in the end. Not judging because I've been exactly where you are in that regard. I had to learn the hard way too

[OWoman]

::rolls eyes::: oh its you again. Didnt I tell you that your posts were hurtful and unhelpful? Why do you insist on writing on my threads? I need to figure out how to block people.

 

In other news, no I have no conscience, you are SO right. How do you know me so well? I beat small children, I eat puppies, I steal from old ladies on sundays, I pee in the holy water at churches just to "stick it to the goys", and if I'm really bored, I switch the chemo bags in the cancer ward with bags of the holy water that I peed in. You know, just to see what happens. Because I'm a crap human being. Does that make you feel better now? Will you stop pestering me now? Christ.

 

KG, you see that "alert us" button next to the "quote" button? Just press that next time instead of responding. It will be better for your blood pressure.

 

To get back o/t, I don't see it working. It's not what either of you wants, really - it's some kind of frustrating compromise that you'll both put up with as a means to an end. And since the ends are both different, you'll both be trying to pressure the other (subconsciously) to coming around to your position to relieve their own (as well as your) frustration.

 

BTW since when is oral sex not sex? Is this Bill Clinton's definition?

[jj33]

Why the need to treat us to a blow by blow of what happened physically on the couch?

 

Whats really going on here. You know it cant work. Why come to us for a blessing of something that is only going to land you back in the same place?

[Billie63]

Kismet, please invest in a top of the range sex toy (I recommend the Rampant Rabbit) to at least allay some of your high sex drive. Seeing him once a week is not going to be enough to satisfy your desire.

 

At least with the RR you have some control of your sexuality.

 

As for your continued obsession with 'their' relationship, I can assure you that as much as her low libido frustrates him, part of him also respects her for it. She gets put on a pedestal because he believes she will be faithful to him and he never has to worry about her looking for sex elsewhere.

 

Meanwhile he's got you to fill in the gaps in his marriage, so no, he won't be leaving her anytime soon.

 

As for keeping your relationship with him platonic - please Kismet, stop kidding yourself - it won't happen, if you want a platonic relationship with him you could always keep it to phone and email. But you won't will you?

[KismetGirl]

Sounds divine/dreamy. Once a soulmate always a soulmate. You go girl. You got it goin' on.:bunny:

 

Gee Reg, very helpful. Glad to see you making good use of your day with that irreplaceable and relevant commentary!

[theBrokenMuse]

No it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of working and I have an inkling that you already know this but just don't want to accept it.

[Owl]

Kismet, you've been told by tons of posters for a very long time now that the "just friends" never works...not to mention that you HAD to have seen that same advice given out dozens of times here if you've read any other threads but your own.

 

You already know the answers here...

[jwi71]

KG-

 

I read your post and thought to myself "WTF is she thinking?"

 

I mean you're not even sold on the idea. Please - we both know how long this platonic phase will last. I mean, if I were a betting a man and this was a race of which would last longer - this new platonic phase or a snowball in hell, I would bet on the snowball.

 

So, no this won't last and we all know it.

 

I would like to set aside this plan for now and ask you about something else.

 

KG, your MM has enormous power over you. His attention to you or the lack thereof seems to have disproportionate affect. You stay away and your grades plummet, your mood sours and life goes basically to crap (I think you used the word zombie at some point). You guys hook up or you conjure a "plan" and you become functional - your studies pick up, you find focus etc. In that way you have ceded control of yourself to him and he doesn't have YOUR best interest at heart. I would be leery of anyone allowing others to control so much - even a spouse.

 

I am uncomfortable with the amount of control you cede to him. And I think you should be too. Can you find ways to move forward and progress in YOUR life regardless of his actions? Honestly, if you guys have a major fight while in Med school and you behave as you have indicated on this forum, you won't make it. You will simply fail out of Med School if you go into "zombie mode".

 

What can you do to detach yourself - create healthy distance between your MM and yourself?

[whichwayisup]

Kis, you haven't reached your enough phase yet. You haven't suffered enough pain to make you want the best for you, even though it'll hurt.

 

So, go ahead and try being "just" friends with him. Be "platonic" friends and see how long that lasts before your feelings get hurt, or you two end up fooling around, kissing, having oral sex, etc..

 

What I don't understand is, you LOVE this guy, atleast you think you do, so how on earth do you figure a healthy friendship can blossom with him? He is still married and you're still in an affair with him.

 

Anyway, I wish you strength to wake up and realize that you need to put YOUR life first and dump him for your own sanity.

[whichwayisup]

Your quote from babycakes thread:

 

my MM is only 8 years older than me, but its been four years and ive fallen in love with him and it gets near impossible for me to stay away from him. it's heart breaking.

 

And this is why the "just friends" thing will not work.

 

You can't have an affair, and go backwards, be "just" friends with someone you're inlove with and desire deeply.