I'm not sure how to "restart"...

[noirx]

Hi all-

 

 

Sorry for the long post...I just have to get this out...

 

So, my wife and I have been married for about a year-and-a-half (togther for about 2 1/2). Our sex life has never been anything special or that frequent, even before we got married. She'd always blamed it on issues with her past relationships, issues with her family (they're not very open with their affection), etc. We've been to three different therapists to discuss the issue and it seems like we've never gotten anywhere. She always uses her past experiences as a crutch to say why she can't tell me goodnight, initiate sex, blows off me saying sexy things to her/complimenting her (her fav reaction to that is "whatever"), etc. Needless to say, this causes me a great deal of frustration, as we're in our 30s and to me, everyone has had disappointing relationships and imperfect parents. You can let these kinds of things hold you back forever...

 

Anyway, to add to the situation, we now have a six-month old. Now, she seems to have added this to her never-ending myriad of excuses why she can't be passionate/romantic. I'd buy into that, if I wasn't doing anything to help her with this. As it stands, I do laundry, shop, cook dinner (or get dinner), clean the house, get up in the middle of the night with our baby, etc. This is all on top of a full-time job, part-time school, plus I do contract engineering work. Through all these extra items, I still manage to find time to want to be intimate with her. I might add that she seems to think that things that can wait (i.e. well, we can't have sex now...the dryer is about to go off; well, I need to fill the baby's bottles with formula [even though he's asleep and there are three already full], etc.) are legitimate reasons to not have close time.

 

Now, for those of you that are going to say, "Well, have you tried being romantic with her?" the answer is YES. When we first got together, I determined that her "love language" was acts of service and she likes gifts. I used to write poems for her, get her flowers every other week, endure things that I couldn't stand (but she wanted to do), take her out to dinner regularly, send her cards at work when I was out on business, etc. I made it clear, from the get go, that my language was touch. So, I really feel like I made an effort there and when I would try to talk to her about doing things that she knows I liked, she'd immediately get defensive and say, "Well, I'm just not that way". Now, there are things the therapist has told us we need to start doing, changing, etc. (i.e. I have a short fuse and the therapist has said I needed to start handling conflict better) and I have made a very good effort in this department. She, on the other hand, makes a half-assed attempt for a few days, then stops. Again, when I confront her she says, "You're just trying to change me into someone I'm not." WHich is not what I'm asking her to do at all - I'm asking her for the same as she's asking from me - behavior modification.

 

So, the last time we were at the therapist, she said that we really have been at each others throats so long we needed to start over. I'm VERY reluctant to do this (I don't really feel a desire to) based up her past behavior of "my way or no way" or just blowing me off completely. I'm tired of living in what I feel like is a passionless marriage, and to be honest, I don't think I OWE her the umpteenth mulligan. I could understand it if I were the typical lazy husband who went to work, came home and cracked open a beer, and just watched football/played PS3/etc, but I'm not. I just don't feel like she's reciprocating trying to make me feel special as I have her and I'm tired of it... If it weren't for our baby, I'd of been vapor already. I feel like I'm pushing the "emotional rock" in our relationship and I'm getting absolutely no help/just stress from her.

 

Anywho, that's my dilema. Thanks for listening.

[Geishawhelk]

No, the way I read this right now, I agree with her.

you do absolutely need to start over.

 

Just not with each other.

 

There comes a point where no matter how much you flog the dead horse, it won't get up and walk again.

 

Let me give you a little tip:

Ask her whether she Respects and trusts you - wholeheartedly?

Ask her infront of the therapist next time you're there.

Ask her on a scale of 1 - 10 how much she respects you.

 

Because trust me, if you have a different figure in mind - and it's not 10 (in either of your views) - then there's a no-brainer here.

A relationship Cannot - absolutely cannot - survive without Respect, Trust and Communication. And there has to be Equal and constant Effort and commitment from both people.

 

Anything less - anything missing - and it's the devil's own job to get them back.

Finding the problem is not the difficult bit.

Finding the problem and then solving it, is the difficult bit.

 

How hard do you think you'll both have to work at this?

How long for?

 

Are you both in it for the long haul?

 

Somehow, I think not.

[imagine]

Just answered this one before!

 

The brain is the most powerful sex organ she has. Practice on that.

 

There is difference between men and women for SF. If you have a problem, a little dab on the clitorous with an appropriate juice should fix sex up.

[Geishawhelk]

Oh, were it that simple!

 

Let me tell you, if I was having major issues with my personal agendas and my man tried that on me, he'd be knocked so far sideways into next week he'd have to check his pulse to see what month it was!

 

(And if you know how to locate it, good on you, but learn how to spell it too.

It's "ClitorIs".....

[giotto]

If things were quite bad, sex-wise, even before you married, why did you marry her? And why did you have a baby together? She's in "mommy mode" and it might take a very long time until she finds her sexual being again... be patient... is she not having sex with you at all?

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

This is a long post noirx. please read it though. I think it will help.

 

Time for a wake up call. Move out. Tell her," you know how among all the excuses you tell me you don't want sex, is because of past relationships? Say, "apparently you gave away all of your nasty hotness to some other guy in your past, so that there is none left for me. How unfortunate for me. Well my dear, you have just become one of my past relationships. And I plan on diligently working through those issues with some other woman." She is a lazy lout when it comes to your sex life.... and maybe other things too. She has destroyed your trust in her. You won't believe any more fake promises of "I'll change." She doesn't like you in her. See how she feels when you're not around her. Don't even wait for the next therapy session. Cancel it, pack and leave. She likes excuses, so she will use everyone in her bag to get you to stay. "You're abandoning your daughter" No. I'm abandoning you. There are plenty of great single fathers out there, and I will be one. If, I leave now with her being 6 months old it will be easier for her to adjust." You also need to remove her from your bank account and have her open her own. Also cancel all credit cards. Then when you leave. Tell her "Welcome to the world of single motherhood" I also suggest that you make a list, literally, of every excuse she ever made for you not to be intimate. Present this list at the time of departure.

 

Now I am not saying to go and find another woman or divorce your wife. She does need to experience her world without noirx. She needs to find out what the world of single motherhood is like. Go back and live with your folks for awhile. Tell them you are working on your marriage. OK now that you have moved out. She will be burning up you PDA, and your phone. Don't answer her unless it concerns your daughters health. She needs to feel alone. I know you work and go to school. But she needs to think that you are living the bachelor life. Parties, bars, fun,. When you go out to one of these party spots. You need to park yourself by the loudest woman in the place. Then you need to call your wife to check on your daughter, so she can hear her in the back ground. When she says "who is that with you?", tell her its just some girl that you're having a drink with.

 

A week or two of this should be enough to force the crisis. She will try to arrange a meeting with you. Make sure it is where you can both be alone. She will be past the sleepless worry stage. And if she is smart she will fix herself and the baby up real pretty. You do not want to meet her on her turf. Try and meet somewhere you feel comfortable having sex with her (friends bachelor pad would be best. She needs to think you live there, and maybe you do) When you answer the door she will probably try to kiss you. Make the motion that you are going to kiss her and right before you do, as you are leaning in to kiss, turn your head so she ends up kissing your cheek.

 

Next. If she is like any woman I have known. She will excuse herself to go to the bathroom. This will be to check for condoms. Let her find an open box of them in the medicine cabinet or prominently displayed somewhere. If she asks, look kind of surprised and say "oh, they're so and so's". She will now feel she is in competition with another woman. Through out this hole passion play you are confident, nice, and definitely not angry.

 

My guess is she will be all over you. She must be the initiator in this. She will most likely try any and every position you have ever thought of, and maybe some that you haven't. This is going to be the benchmark of future sex with her. I would be surprized, if this does not happen within the first 15 minutes. All of this is done for one reason. To find out if she has just been jerking you around, and as I said being lazy.

 

Then comes the negotiation. She will think that sex will make it all better, and will probably ask you when you are going to move back in, and what you would like for dinner. Get a real puzzled look on your face and say "what?". Ask her why she thought you would move back in? She now needs to think she is in competition for your love. You need to tell her you don't trust her. That you don't even know if she loves you. This could have all been fake.

 

In closing. She needs to court and woo you. This is the "starting over" that she mentioned. But it will be on your terms not hers. Do not move back or give her the idea that you will. She needs to make some major changes in her thought processes. In this issue I speak from experience. I have done this. And it worked. I went through the same thing as you did one and half years into my marriage.

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

All this is done to create and emotional vacuum. She will try to fill it if she does love you. If this scenario does not work, then at least you will know that it is a lost cause, and can then move on with your life. The only thing left will be to demand that she gets testosterone therapy to increase her libido. It does work in a lot of cases.

[Geishawhelk]

Blimey....

It's worth a try I suppose....

 

If you're feeling resistant to this, noirx, ask yourself what you have to lose.......?

[noirx]

@giotto

 

I married her under the premise that she explained the reason she was so "emotionally closed off" was that she was insecure about relationships based her past experiences and the more the relationship progressed, the better things would be. At first, it was "well, we'll move in together, then it'll be better", then it wouldn't, then I'd try to discuss it with her and she'd get defensive and we'd fight. THen it was "well, we'll get engaged and things will be better"...same cycle... THen it was "well, we'll get married and I'll ramp up. Then I'll be your wife and you'll be my husband and I'll be wearing you out."...same result... Really, I blame myself, as I should've known better after the "move in together" didn't result in a better level of intimacy.

 

Sex-wise, it was better before we got engaged, but I'd never call it "good" or "mind-blowing". I'd try to talk to her about it and she'd just tell me, "Well, I can't be this idea of a woman you have in your head. I am who I am - deal with it." I'd always get this insecure/defensive mode of excuses. I, being very romantic/emotional, for a guy thought, "well, obviously she has issues, but I need to give her a chance - she's been hurt." What I SHOULD of been doing was listening to my friends (females included) when they said "RUN!" I think it was also a bit of an ego thing for me - I thought I was smarter than everyone else and I could make it work. Only in the last six months have I come to realize how completely diluted that line of thinking was... As for "mommy mode", that really hasn't made it any worse. Sex since we got engaged has been once a week/every other week, and when I try to civily discuss it, all I ever got was her with her claws out about it. Right now, I'd say it is about once every other week, which I'm not willing to accept at 1.5 years of marriage, because based on history with her it appears it will get worse. I'd be willing to accept the "mommy mode" thing, too, if she in fact were having to run around like most mom's. Fact of the matter is I do A LOT more than most dad's do with the baby, house, etc. Like I said, after that, I can still find time to make her feel wanted. She evidently doesn't want to exhaust the energy for that...

 

Our child was a wedding night baby - didn't plan for it to happen, just did. I can't complain about that. I love our child very, very much. That's the one good thing I can say about this marriage.

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

Noirx

 

I would consider her very lucky if you did act on my suggestion. I sense that if there is not an epiphany on her part, she has lost you forever. She has lied to you your whole relationship. Promising everything as she draws you in. And then giving you the absolute minimum. Please do consider giving her this one last chance. God says: I HATE DIVORCE. And if it is at all avoidable I would hope you don't have to go that route.

 

We all have an investment in each others marriages.

[giotto]

@giotto

 

I married her under the premise that she explained the reason she was so "emotionally closed off" was that she was insecure about relationships based her past experiences and the more the relationship progressed, the better things would be. At first, it was "well, we'll move in together, then it'll be better", then it wouldn't, then I'd try to discuss it with her and she'd get defensive and we'd fight. THen it was "well, we'll get engaged and things will be better"...same cycle... THen it was "well, we'll get married and I'll ramp up. Then I'll be your wife and you'll be my husband and I'll be wearing you out."...same result... Really, I blame myself, as I should've known better after the "move in together" didn't result in a better level of intimacy.

 

Sex-wise, it was better before we got engaged, but I'd never call it "good" or "mind-blowing". I'd try to talk to her about it and she'd just tell me, "Well, I can't be this idea of a woman you have in your head. I am who I am - deal with it." I'd always get this insecure/defensive mode of excuses. I, being very romantic/emotional, for a guy thought, "well, obviously she has issues, but I need to give her a chance - she's been hurt." What I SHOULD of been doing was listening to my friends (females included) when they said "RUN!" I think it was also a bit of an ego thing for me - I thought I was smarter than everyone else and I could make it work. Only in the last six months have I come to realize how completely diluted that line of thinking was... As for "mommy mode", that really hasn't made it any worse. Sex since we got engaged has been once a week/every other week, and when I try to civily discuss it, all I ever got was her with her claws out about it. Right now, I'd say it is about once every other week, which I'm not willing to accept at 1.5 years of marriage, because based on history with her it appears it will get worse. I'd be willing to accept the "mommy mode" thing, too, if she in fact were having to run around like most mom's. Fact of the matter is I do A LOT more than most dad's do with the baby, house, etc. Like I said, after that, I can still find time to make her feel wanted. She evidently doesn't want to exhaust the energy for that...

 

Our child was a wedding night baby - didn't plan for it to happen, just did. I can't complain about that. I love our child very, very much. That's the one good thing I can say about this marriage.

 

ah, ok... I'm in the same situation, although we've been married 18 years and have 4 children. My wife has clearly issues about sex and she says it all relates to her past/upbringing. Sex was very good/frequent until the second child was born. Then she shut down and I put a lot of pressure on her. Then came the other too, unplanned... I stuck with her because I love her and I thought one day she might "see the light". I was wrong. I do a lot in the house, but it's not enough. I finally understood that these issues with the past will never be resolved. I didn't help by putting pressure on her, but I couldn't stand being married to a woman who didn't want to be close to me. Things have got to a breaking point, now, and we have temporarly separated. Unfortunately, I can't fix her head. I know it's over... well, it was probably over a long time ago. I just wish she told me 10 years ago... When I mention this, she says that "she didn't know", "she is confused" and she should "get counselling on her own" (the sessions together didn't help... made things worse). She is emotionally challenged and I have come to accept it.

So, if your wife has issues, believe me, even if she wants to change, she never will... it's much easier to do nothing about it. I've moved into my office upstairs and will sort something out when my financial situation gets better...

Unfortunately, the only thing you can say is that you will leave if things don't improve. I know you don't want to - because you love her - but the rejection and frustration are much worse. Good luck!

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

I think giotto's post is invaluable. You must find out whether its selfish laziness or apathy. The laziness can be dealt with. Apathy is the marriage killer.

[giotto]

I think giotto's post is invaluable. You must find out whether its selfish laziness or apathy. The laziness can be dealt with. Apathy is the marriage killer.

 

I think she is not prepared to deal with her issues or resolve them. As long as you stay there, she will do nothing about it. She has no reason to change. Personally, at the moment, I'm not prepared to leave the children, so moving in another room is a step forward for me. I have to prepare myself mentally and detach myself. At this stage, I'm number one again...

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

Have you closed your joint bank accounts? You must do this. If you are the provider, let her open an account and give her a budget.

[haplo777]

I am in the same boat, my friend.

 

the only differences.... my wife and I didn't have sex with each other until our wedding night (she was a virgin, I had one partner). we did everythign but intercourse so we were physical, bu it wasn't freakishly all the time or anything.....

 

My question to you (and all the guys and girls here...) is:

 

without the sex and physical connection, how did you deal with your urges?

 

I have similar time contraint issues (full time job, laundry, cleaning house, etc) and i KNEW that the physical wasn't going to be there from my wife as much as I wanted.......so...

 

Masterbation to porn was the answer... eventually the fantasies didn't work and it turned to chatting, and sending pictures and naughty emails... VERY descriptive and full of fantasies.... and ONLY for Physical release.. never an actual physical encounter......

 

Wife found the emails.... now she thinks it's cheating.....

 

so what is the answer? masterbating to relieve my urges? or begging and pleading for any kind of physical connection?

 

SO did you answer the urges through Masterbation? If so, did you wife have any opinion of that?

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

Haplo, read my lengthy post to noirx and consider it. If anything after finding this out about you, she should be looking at her part in this. You may want to consider this strategy. They need to know you have needs.

 

A woman judges the strength of her marriage by communication.

 

Men judge it by the act of sex with their wife.

 

That is why men want to have sex after a fight. It is their way of bonding with their wife. This is the last thing on a wifes mind.

 

Haplo, you need to go to a sex therapist with your wife. Noirx has tried this, so he is further down the road. And poor Giotto is way down that road. You need to deal with this or you are waisting your life with a relationship that will not be fullfilling and may cause severe depression.

[giotto]

I am in the same boat, my friend.

 

the only differences.... my wife and I didn't have sex with each other until our wedding night (she was a virgin, I had one partner). we did everythign but intercourse so we were physical, bu it wasn't freakishly all the time or anything.....

 

My question to you (and all the guys and girls here...) is:

 

without the sex and physical connection, how did you deal with your urges?

 

I have similar time contraint issues (full time job, laundry, cleaning house, etc) and i KNEW that the physical wasn't going to be there from my wife as much as I wanted.......so...

 

Masterbation to porn was the answer... eventually the fantasies didn't work and it turned to chatting, and sending pictures and naughty emails... VERY descriptive and full of fantasies.... and ONLY for Physical release.. never an actual physical encounter......

 

Wife found the emails.... now she thinks it's cheating.....

 

so what is the answer? masterbating to relieve my urges? or begging and pleading for any kind of physical connection?

 

SO did you answer the urges through Masterbation? If so, did you wife have any opinion of that?

 

 

well, masturbation is a good form of relief... my wife just accepted it, I suppose because she thought she would be under less pressure...

 

I never begged for sex... got angry, yes, but never begged... my urges were kept under control with masturbation. The relief is short-lived and is no substitute for the real thing... so, yes, after a few hours I was again longing for the physical contact...

In short, masturbation is a good thing if you are prepared to work on your marriage, waiting for things to improve, but on the other hand, the wife will feel a bit off the hook knowing that you have found other ways to channel your frustration...