What does she want ???

[doomed]

Just wanted to post and say hi to everybody since I've been lurking around for many days. I don’t even know HOW to give my story in a time frame that anybody would read it. I’ve got 13 years of history with my missus that has NOT been good to us. We’ve done incarcerated kids. We’ve done drug addicted kids. We’ve done dead kids. We’ve done blended families with nutty X’s. We’ve done infertility problems. We’ve done very bad things and very good things. You name it. We might not have done it great together, sometimes we didn’t even do it together, but we’ve done it. I guess my point is that there’s way too much history here to just spill it all in one go and be fair to the both of us. Let me just skip to the present.

 

I’m a well paid engineer (knocking on wood for luck that I’ll remain so) who works from home. She’s a stay at home Mom who never had to work outside the home while married to me. In her past life she's a college educated BSN while I'm just a dummy who walked away from a full ride after a couple of semesters because I hated school. We’ve got a whole herd of kids & steps at varying ages. Most of them still walking the earth. One of them can’t walk far for the next several years but hey, he’s still alive, even if he’s had some titanium added to his cranium whilst cooling his heels in prison.

 

Right now I'm separated after several requests from her that I find living accommodations elsewhere. Been living away for 28 days now. While I can certainly understand her reasoning, I can also honestly say I don't mind the break because I have a bone or two to pick with her, as well.

 

If assigning blame were any use, I'd take 90% of it.

 

So here's the deal. She says Get the F out. Okay. She says you got all these problems you should be working on. Okay. She says you need to decide what it is you really want. Okay. She says you need to learn how to get what it is you want. Okay. She says I’m a nutjob and need medicating. Okay. She says I’m nothing but a boat anchor around her neck dragging her down. Okay. She says I’ve squashed the lives and spirits out of everybody in the house and they would shine without me there. Okay. She says are littler kids are all messed up because she’s 100% consumed with me. Okay. She says her health is all messed up because of me. Okay.

 

Whatever. I’ll find a place immediately because I’m a little irritated at being repeatedly told to leave and it just so happens I’ve got a little money stashed for first & last rent, essentials around my new apartment and a real bed to replace the freaking dog bed (inflatable mattress) that I’ve been sleeping on for most of five fn years. As luck would have it, I find a wonderful place 3 miles from the family palace that’s as cheap as I’ll find anywhere. I moved out on january 5th.

 

So I'm off trying trying to look at all the ways I caused problems in our marriage and all the ways I failed to fix them, and fixing me and she's hurt and pissed off that I moved out ? She’s hurt and pissed off and up all night because I don't call her ? I've heard this at least half a dozen times. If I do call, I get told how I ruined her day and now she'll be up all night because of it. I've heard that a half a dozen times too. I get text messages saying ‘good night and sweet dreams, even if its not me’ 10 minutes after the phone call where she says what a freaking loser I am.

 

What on Earth do people like this WANT ?

 

I don't think she wants a divorce, because she's had (she says) a lawyer on retainer since last may, though she's never let me actually see the retainer agreement. Is it that she wants me to beg and plead and grovel to come back home ? (aint happening) Is it somehow to her advantage if I get irritated enough that I go and file for divorce ? (didn't think that mattered anymore) Is she looking for some kind of immediate “Hey look at me, I’m your knight in shining armor again”, only to throw me out, excuse me, ask me to leave again after this apartment is gone ? (I wouldn’t trust in that)

 

What I think personally, is that she’s just having seller’s remorse and really doesn’t want me around anymore, but she’s afraid of the unknown ... I’m just confused by it all. ... Don’t get me wrong, I’ve made my share of LIFETIME f*ckups and learned from them. We’ve each done individual counseling, we’ve done marriage counseling, we’ve even had full-on ink-blot-toting neuropsychoanalysts visit us who insist we’re very much alike and more or less normal with just enough out of bounds data to make us interesting.

 

Our marriage has never been WORSE than it has since the counsellors got involved, if you ask me.

 

I have no idea what to do with all of the conficting information and signals I’m getting. If she just up and up divorced me, I’d man up and know that I had it coming, but the confusion hurts me even more than the pain of being out of the house and away from her – when she’s not into insulting me, calling me names, publicly ridiculing me in front of the kids or shouting my past around the house, that is. I don’t miss being away from that one little bit...

 

Historically, I have a very long fuse, but I’m starting to lose patience with all this nonsense. I don’t want to rush and file for divorce, but I don’t want to sit around here in self-contemplation forever either.

 

Can anybody rent me a clue ? Some food for thought ? I know I can find happiness with her or without her, but I’d much rather be with her.

 

doomed

[TrustInYourself]

LOL, sounds intense. What I find interesting is how handling all of your past problems has allowed you to handle your wife so expertly and detached.

 

You and your wife are probably experts now at dealing with eachother. You both know how to push buttons and now probably know how to control reactions and control/manipulation efforts from the opposite spouse.

 

What are the counselors telling you that is hurting your marriage? I mean are they asking you to address conflict? I think that's the wrong approach. I think addressing conflict creates conflict, unless there is an understanding or a means of addressing it with a solution.

 

If I were you, I would listen to her, but keep it all introspective. Consider your words carefully, just relax. I would suggest being yourself, but attempt to limit your vices, which you have not mentioned here.

 

Addiction playing a role here? What issues are we talking about, that are beneath the surface.

 

How can you take action to address those problems in a positive, life-changing manner. Let's face it, you are at a crossroads. Time to get busy and not for her, for you.

[doomed]

Vices & Addictions ? : Coffee and smokes.

 

Things that piss her off ? Hmmm...

 

I lose patience. After hearing the same story or complaints or whatever for the umteenth time I'll ask: So, what do you want to about it ?

 

I'm verbally abusive - HER thing - mine is more like, when the bomb finally goes off, I go off. Example: She's got a bone to pick with me. I get called a pig and my eyebrow might raise. I get called a bastard and maybe I'll do the widened eyes and dipping chin. I get called a dumbass and feel my teeth clenching and getting a little charged up. She'll keep at me and say something like "Its time to put your big boy panties on and ever get through a conversation - q.v. patience above, and I'll just be DONE and say "Now listen, you MFing-cantankerous-mean-spirited-spoiled-whining-good-for-nuthin-devil-pig-b!tch-brat ..." ... yeah, that's verbally abusive alright, because I let myself get sucked into responding in kind and that's a problem I recognize in myself. I also recognize that I'm more creative at cussing and name calling and it might be in my best interest to work on that too.

 

Deeper self analysis has shown me that when I'm hurt, I want to lash out and cause pain right back, which is also not helpful. I never mean it. I apologize for it. When it comes up later I always pounce on it and say I am sorry and I never meant that and I am working on it.

 

What I do now is when a name gets called, or an insult is thrown, or a label is used, or a cute little hurty euphemism slides in, I'll say something like "was that called for ?" (warning 1), if it continues I'll say "you gotta stop with the insults" (warning 2), if it continues more I just say "this conversation is at and end. Goodnight." q.v. patience again.

 

And while we're trying to talk about us, and the topic of verbal abuse comes up, ITS A HUGE MISTAKE WITH HER to say "Yeah, that's something we both do and its just wrong". She call's this turning the tables on her and NOT owning my own behavior. Forget about telling her it takes two to tango.

 

She says I'm physically abusive. Out of all of these kids, I can think of physical punishment happening less than a dozen times. She has trauma here because her first born was abandoned by bio dad, physically abused, really abused, by his adoptive dad, as well as sexually abused (discovered later) by this prince. For myself, out of all the times I've dished out anything physical there were many warnings first. All except one and in that circumstance I had just discovered a kid was using his school lunch checks to buy 420 for like a year and half of school, then when I came home to confront him I found him cooking crystal meth in my house !!! When challenged to get all that crap out here in front of me he said no. When challenged again to do it or die, he turned his back on me and said kill me then. He got popped and dropped with no further discussion. Then he got up and called 911. Eight cops and the shift seargent arrive. He came flouncing out of the house with rubber gloves on and damn near got himself shot. Lots of talking later, he leaves in cuffs by ambulance for an OD and upon arriving kicks the orderly in the head and tells the charge nurse that he's reading her mind. Yeah, call me abusive. I lost it that day.

 

The most recent physically abusive episode was with one of my 7yo's. Acting out, jumping on the furniture, yelling, screaming, typical. After a bunch of "your gonna get your ass kicked" warnings he did something else and got his ass kicked. And I *don't* mean I booted him across the room. Just enough to know it happened. The most recent prior to that was more than a year before. A single sharp swat on the butt, again after many warnings, for two of them. She yelled and yelled about calling the police then and I just said do it.

 

I don't want to start a religious war over physical punishments, but I hardly think I could be called physically abusive. One of things she said is that she wants to see me in counseling AGAIN - last shrink listened and then said maybe differences in parenting styles are just one more reason to divorce. I didn't keep her around long after that because I don't want a freaking divorce. Anyway, she wants to see me in counseling WITH HER PRESENT. I don't even dismiss this idea out of hand.

 

And again, its a capital mistake to point out the occasions where I've seen her totally lose it and get physical with a kid or me, or how we've each been physical with the other, but we have NEVER actually struck each other.

 

She says I don't spend enough time with her. Um, TRUTH. If every interaction just leads to a fight, then DUH, I tend to make myself scarce. Who needs the stress ???

 

Anyway, there's tons of history and I have to own 90% of it because I can't ever get it all down *fairly*, so mea culpa.

 

But what I'm trying to figure out is what the hell does she want if not divorce ? The easy answer is she wants to be treated like a queen again. The sarcastic answer is that she wants to be treated like a queen while she p!sses on my head and tries to tell me its raining. For me, the insults, innuendos, public humiliation in front of the kids, and the fighting has to stop.

 

I've been on the phone with her twice in the last 12 hours where a recurring theme is "you never call me just to say you miss me". Truth. For the larger part, everything I could miss, I've already been missing for years. Outside the fighting, I do miss her terribly but when I say so it just loops back to: You never call to tell me that and I can only say: You never let me get to missing you when you tell me just about every single day how I F this up or F that up.

 

I guess the best approach is just listening, damn LOL, q.v. the patience thing.

 

doomed

 

ps - there's a little angel on my shoulder whispering "Do you want to be right ? Or do you want to be married ?"

 

pps - there's a little devil on my other shoulder whispering "Sometimes you just can't polish a turd."

[doomed]

LOL, sounds intense. What I find interesting is how handling all of your past problems has allowed you to handle your wife so expertly and detached.

 

Oh yeah. I'm a cold and emotionless bastard. That's another thing that pisses her off. When I get defensive, I get logical and analytical while she goes completely emotional.

[Enema]

Has she ever recognized and admitted the things she needs to work on?

[TrustInYourself]

Vices & Addictions ? : Coffee and smokes.

 

Things that piss her off ? Hmmm...

 

I lose patience. After hearing the same story or complaints or whatever for the umteenth time I'll ask: So, what do you want to about it ?

 

I'm verbally abusive - HER thing - mine is more like, when the bomb finally goes off, I go off. Example: She's got a bone to pick with me. I get called a pig and my eyebrow might raise. I get called a bastard and maybe I'll do the widened eyes and dipping chin. I get called a dumbass and feel my teeth clenching and getting a little charged up. She'll keep at me and say something like "Its time to put your big boy panties on and ever get through a conversation - q.v. patience above, and I'll just be DONE and say "Now listen, you MFing-cantankerous-mean-spirited-spoiled-whining-good-for-nuthin-devil-pig-b!tch-brat ..." ... yeah, that's verbally abusive alright, because I let myself get sucked into responding in kind and that's a problem I recognize in myself. I also recognize that I'm more creative at cussing and name calling and it might be in my best interest to work on that too.

 

Deeper self analysis has shown me that when I'm hurt, I want to lash out and cause pain right back, which is also not helpful. I never mean it. I apologize for it. When it comes up later I always pounce on it and say I am sorry and I never meant that and I am working on it.

 

What I do now is when a name gets called, or an insult is thrown, or a label is used, or a cute little hurty euphemism slides in, I'll say something like "was that called for ?" (warning 1), if it continues I'll say "you gotta stop with the insults" (warning 2), if it continues more I just say "this conversation is at and end. Goodnight." q.v. patience again.

 

And while we're trying to talk about us, and the topic of verbal abuse comes up, ITS A HUGE MISTAKE WITH HER to say "Yeah, that's something we both do and its just wrong". She call's this turning the tables on her and NOT owning my own behavior. Forget about telling her it takes two to tango.

 

She says I'm physically abusive. Out of all of these kids, I can think of physical punishment happening less than a dozen times. She has trauma here because her first born was abandoned by bio dad, physically abused, really abused, by his adoptive dad, as well as sexually abused (discovered later) by this prince. For myself, out of all the times I've dished out anything physical there were many warnings first. All except one and in that circumstance I had just discovered a kid was using his school lunch checks to buy 420 for like a year and half of school, then when I came home to confront him I found him cooking crystal meth in my house !!! When challenged to get all that crap out here in front of me he said no. When challenged again to do it or die, he turned his back on me and said kill me then. He got popped and dropped with no further discussion. Then he got up and called 911. Eight cops and the shift seargent arrive. He came flouncing out of the house with rubber gloves on and damn near got himself shot. Lots of talking later, he leaves in cuffs by ambulance for an OD and upon arriving kicks the orderly in the head and tells the charge nurse that he's reading her mind. Yeah, call me abusive. I lost it that day.

 

The most recent physically abusive episode was with one of my 7yo's. Acting out, jumping on the furniture, yelling, screaming, typical. After a bunch of "your gonna get your ass kicked" warnings he did something else and got his ass kicked. And I *don't* mean I booted him across the room. Just enough to know it happened. The most recent prior to that was more than a year before. A single sharp swat on the butt, again after many warnings, for two of them. She yelled and yelled about calling the police then and I just said do it.

 

I don't want to start a religious war over physical punishments, but I hardly think I could be called physically abusive. One of things she said is that she wants to see me in counseling AGAIN - last shrink listened and then said maybe differences in parenting styles are just one more reason to divorce. I didn't keep her around long after that because I don't want a freaking divorce. Anyway, she wants to see me in counseling WITH HER PRESENT. I don't even dismiss this idea out of hand.

 

And again, its a capital mistake to point out the occasions where I've seen her totally lose it and get physical with a kid or me, or how we've each been physical with the other, but we have NEVER actually struck each other.

 

She says I don't spend enough time with her. Um, TRUTH. If every interaction just leads to a fight, then DUH, I tend to make myself scarce. Who needs the stress ???

 

Anyway, there's tons of history and I have to own 90% of it because I can't ever get it all down *fairly*, so mea culpa.

 

But what I'm trying to figure out is what the hell does she want if not divorce ? The easy answer is she wants to be treated like a queen again. The sarcastic answer is that she wants to be treated like a queen while she p!sses on my head and tries to tell me its raining. For me, the insults, innuendos, public humiliation in front of the kids, and the fighting has to stop.

 

I've been on the phone with her twice in the last 12 hours where a recurring theme is "you never call me just to say you miss me". Truth. For the larger part, everything I could miss, I've already been missing for years. Outside the fighting, I do miss her terribly but when I say so it just loops back to: You never call to tell me that and I can only say: You never let me get to missing you when you tell me just about every single day how I F this up or F that up.

 

I guess the best approach is just listening, damn LOL, q.v. the patience thing.

 

doomed

 

ps - there's a little angel on my shoulder whispering "Do you want to be right ? Or do you want to be married ?"

 

pps - there's a little devil on my other shoulder whispering "Sometimes you just can't polish a turd."

 

Yeah, salt and pepper are completely opposite, but they go well together. Every couple has things that compliment the other spouse. Every person has a positive and a negative to their character. The trick is remembering the positive and downplaying the negative.

 

If we all married only perfect people, no one would be married. It's cool to love imperfect people. We all do.

 

Now the question is, you are searching inward. You can find all the answers for yourself. But you can not do this for her.

 

Here's a good read and popular, but it's called "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus". Check that out. Good information on how women communicate and express emotion. Something that sticks in my mind, is that women like to tell you their problems, without hearing solutions or logic. Men we tend to "fix". Just chilling and not saying anything and agreeing with my wife, has brought quite a bit of calm over my mariage situation.

 

I come from a family where fighting is the norm for communication. It's tough to just "listen" actively. Especially if you are getting bombarded.

 

Can she address her issues without you saying anything? Do you say anything? What happens when you bring up her emotional outbursts? She probably takes it as a personal attack, my guess.

 

People are complicated creatures. She feels one way and she probably loves you, but certain things probably just create fire and emotion and you need to identify how you play a part in that chain reaction.

[doomed]

Oh yeah, the fixing things. I've done a metric *****load of that.

 

Some things she don't want fixed, just heard. That took me about 12 years to learn... Now if I could only learn to figure out what she wanted fixed. When I get to the "so what do you want to do about it ?" question, I'm either rudely interrupting or I haven't been listening.

 

But yeah, I'm trying.... and I'm afraid I'm

 

doomed

[doomed]

Oh. Reading this stuff makes her seem awful and that's just not fair.

 

I don't want to give the impression that I'm dealing with a psychotic nut case bi-atch, even though I am, but that's just personal between her and me.

 

She is the most deeply loving and caring and charitable and sensitive and compassionate woman on the planet, just not with me these days, is all...

[doomed]

Has she ever recognized and admitted the things she needs to work on?

 

I wrote a huge reply to this and it disappeared. Anyway, the answer is "after a fashion".

 

For years it was "I fight dirty. I mean every word I say when I say it, but only about the specific situation."

 

Lately its become "You never pay attention long enough to hear me out, so I try to summarize with just a word or two, and sometimes I choose the wrong word."

 

Heh ... Like when my 17yo stepson called my 14yo stepdaughter a b!tch, she slapped him, he kicked her, Mom stepped in and blasted the 17yo and publicly humiliated ME in the process. Then apologized to the 17yo for being so rough with him.

 

I was over doing homework with my 7yo twins when this went down. I shot her a dirty look and said nothing, just me being oversensitive. Fuggedabout it. She pushed the issue so when I complained about it, she said "thats because you're such an abusive bastard."

 

What she MEANT to say was "She wanted ME to step in and give a speech about how even though mom and I fight like that, there's no call for that going on between brother and sister". Yeah, ok, insult and publicly humiliate me, apologize to the miscreant and call me an abusive bastard when I complain about it... Makes sense to me... Please excuse me while I and leave flog myself for awhile.

 

What she says NOW if I bring up anything that irritates me is thunder and earthquakes WHY DO I HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO CHANGE. YOU START FOR A CHANGE.

 

When the wind stops blowing I sigh. Take a breath. Leak some more air. Say something like "yeah, that's what I'm off and trying to do. Do you realize how hard it is to make any positive and lasting changes in the environment you create with all the insults, public humiliation in front of the kids, etc etc". I don't get to finish because the storm blows right back in with something like: AND NOW YOU'RE WHINING ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS ...

 

"Goodnight" and either <click> or <walk> or whatever.

 

doomed

[TrustInYourself]

I wouldn't be understanding. I wouldn't put up with it. Because, you have for so long. It makes it difficult for her to adjust, to create change. Maybe that is the reason she loves you. Maybe your thoughtfulness allowed her to stay married to you through all this. But if you are not happy, then something has to be addressed in the relationship dynamic.

 

The question is, if you start standing up to her, is that the end of the romance. A better question is, is it even worth being married to someone who refuses to compromise. That's a hard question to answer.

[doomed]

Ha. End of the romance. That's funny. But yes, it is an awful question to answer because I DO love her. We are connected at some level way down deep, but life has gotten in the way in so many ways. One of my biggest fears is that we've just changed to be 100% incompatible. You talked about salt and pepper. I feel more like diesel and fertilizer.

 

Anyhow, I just got back from a 3 hour "lets go out for coffee and just talk" time. We were eight miles from home. Diving into the past again, she's complaining about a night where she said 6 things happened, I owned 5 of them and (re) apologized and told her that I've always been ashamed of myself for that entire night. Refused on #6. Didn't do it. Won't own it.

 

Let me tell you. When you're guilty, you're guilty, but there's a tendency to fight to the death over something you didn't do.

 

Anyway, she gets out of the car and starts walking. Eight miles is a long haul, its dark, there's no moon, cold and snowing here. I talk her back into the car with a promise that I won't say a word. She lays into me for six miles and I open my mouth, say a few words, say sh*t, I'm sorry. She says no go ahead we're close enough to home, so I ask her to just ponder what she says the last 6 miles:

 

- She can't stand to be with me for an hour

- I'm not the man she married

- I should file divorce in time for Valentines day and her #1's death date

- I should do that because I'm just mean enough to do it

- She'd rather be dead than be with me another second

- I'm pathalogically abusive. It's a path-ol-og-y now, is it ?

 

Then I say I got two questions:

 

Tell me again why you're pissed off and hurt that I don't want to spend time with you?

Tell me again why you're pissed off and hurt that I don't call just to say I miss you ?

 

She works herself into a lather and starts SCREAMING, punching the wind shield, kicking the dash, opening the freaking door at 40mph screaming let me out, let me out. Flinging a water bottle around - I got wet enough that I had to change

 

And while she's having this fit I'm like: what the F is wrong with you ? Just be cool, home in a minute, oh for Christ's sake, shut the goddamn door, think about your children! just over and over. She's got the door closed, but how much water is in that fn bottle anyway ? Finally get to the turn and slowing down for the corner she's got the fn door open again doing her impression of the flintstones on the snow & ice, so I just come to a complete stop instead of making the corner and she bails.

 

Now I'm home and changed and the phone's ringing. How could I do that ? How could I make her stay in the car ? That's kidnapping. I'm having full blown PTSD because of it and now I'll be up all night while you sleep like a baby.

 

"I made you stay in the car because it would be fn stupid to let you walk a mile or two on back country NH roads in the dark and snow and you're wearing black for hell's sake. If you feel you were kidnapped, that's a felony and I advise you to call 911. If there's nothing else that you want me to hear, I'll hang up now."

 

Then she segues into why do I always do what I want instead of listening to her wishes ? My response is because sometimes you do what's fn right to do. Period. I picked you up at home and I will NOT let you do something fn stupid. Although I didn't say so, I also will NOT be the last one to see her alive, because I won't let myself do something fn stupid either.

 

Dang ... was it just yesterday I said I didn't want to rush and file ? Holy crap. When I walked in the door I was all set to take tomorrow off and go do it, and now I don't really want to and will sleep on it. I am either one stubborn SOB or a really slow learner or just plain

 

doomed

[Enema]

I think your username is apt. Your relationship with her sounds doomed.

 

Even if she realizes that she has at least as much blame in this as you do, there's now too much bad blood and memories. Doomed.

 

You only get one life man, is this how you want to live it? Divorce.

[TrustInYourself]

Yeah. Entering toxic levels. If she doesn't know what she wants, how can you be a part of her life.

 

Give her some time to sort her issues. Time will give her a chance to realize how she feels and what she wants.

[edgeof27]

Doomed,

 

time to move on for both your sakes,

 

don't waste any more time,

 

g.

[doomed]

Yeah, I'm moving myself in that direction. As I've mentioned, she says she's had a divorce attorney on retainer since last May. When asked why don't you just file then ? Its all paid for. Her response has been one of:

 

because I don't think its the right thing to do

 

or

 

because it has to be your choice. its up to us to suffer everything that you will do to your family.

 

So confused here. The scene of a couple nights ago, the stupid phone calls, then last night she sends an adult stepdaughter and her BF down here with a plate of cookies and a cornish pasty for me.

 

Anyway, yeah, I'm moving in that direction. See my other post in here about financial planning for divorce and bankruptcy.

 

doomed

[TrustInYourself]

mmm...cookies.

 

What did you guys use to do for fun? What was the attraction point?

[doomed]

That was so long ago... Well... Dirt biking, games and board games, enjoying our kids, local casinos, driving, dining, beach combing, shopping, movies, cocktails, visiting family, geneaology, beaches, cooking, museums, shows, general touristy things.

 

Basically -- *anything* that I suggest is out because "thats what friends do and you've become my worst fn enemy" and unless its WORKING ON THE MARRIAGE its not well received.

 

Gack, this was so depressing to write. Thanks for reminding me I'm ...

 

doomed

[edgeof27]

doomed,

 

No, you're not doomed,

 

the marriage might be, (is), but you're not,

 

you just gotta know that your future is better without her......

 

there will be other people to fill the void,

 

you will meet someone else,

 

don't waste any more time,

 

file soon, (forget the date issue),

 

it will be the best for you both....

 

g.

[Kasan]

I am wondering if there is an underlying medical condition going on with your wife.

 

The reason that I ask is, she seems to be all over the place with her emotions.

 

A lot of kids, lot of stress and I wonder how old she is? Could she be pre-menopausal, menopausal, or depressed?

 

When was the last time she had a check-up?

[TrustInYourself]

That was so long ago... Well... Dirt biking, games and board games, enjoying our kids, local casinos, driving, dining, beach combing, shopping, movies, cocktails, visiting family, geneaology, beaches, cooking, museums, shows, general touristy things.

 

Basically -- *anything* that I suggest is out because "thats what friends do and you've become my worst fn enemy" and unless its WORKING ON THE MARRIAGE its not well received.

 

Gack, this was so depressing to write. Thanks for reminding me I'm ...

 

doomed

 

Working on the marriage should not be work. Working on marriages, kills marriages. You should be having fun, enjoying eachothers' company.

[doomed]

"Working on marriages kills marriages" ... LOL ... How well I know this. Like I said earlier, at least I thought I did. I had my counselor, she had hers, we had ours, our kids had theirs, and since these weren't enough, they brought in the ink blot lady to really dig around in our heads. That's FIVE of them trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with us. We had a five-way meeting once. There were many recommendations:

 

us:

 

- Keep any problem solving sessions brief, 15 minutes or less. That won't ever happen. She couldn't come to a point that fast to save her life.

 

- Do them in writing to take the heat out of it. Never, ever, happen. Already been told she's not ever putting anything in writing for fear I'll use it against her.

 

her:

 

- Stop focusing on what you don't see and focus on what you do see. IE, don't focus that I didn't buy you flowers and candy, when I bought you flowers and a card. A contrived example but in this case that candy becomes the single most critically important thing I should have done.. etc...

 

me:

 

- When the fights break out, do not go into kill or be killed mode and feed the escalation.

 

Trying to do this, I've discovered that she escalates things a lot more than I do. If I get upset, she gets pissed off. If I get pissed off, she gets ballistic. If I get ballistic then she gets def-con-1 launch all missles, the end of days is here.

 

Medical ???: I'm sure there is, just as she's sure I'm a raging abusive bipolar subhuman animal in need of medicating. She's ADD. She's hypothyroid. She's freaking tired as only a mom of so many can be. Aderall fixes her ADD. Synthroid treats the hypo and her bloodwork has been rock solid steady on this for decades.

 

I dunno. Today I told her that after the last few days I intend to hire an attorney and end it. She flipped out, told me how dumb I am, told me how selfish I am because of the timing (february, month of love), told me I'm putting them all on the street (q.v. my divorce plan thread), told me how I'm ruining the entire family for time and all eternity, got all fire-n-brimstone on my ass, THEN said, "and being the dumbass I am, I was gonna ask you out on a date" ... So confusing.

 

Just fn shoot me because I'm

 

doomed

[TrustInYourself]

You are escalating it. Just ignore her for a bit. Time is on your side.

 

I would just tell her you are thinking and need time to collect your thoughts. She's defensive because you are typically on the attack. Now when she attacks, ignore it. Just chill.