Girlfriend stopped going to church

[Mahatma]

So this weekend I found out my girlfriend stopped going to church. I am not a christian and would consider myself just a "spiritual" person, and try to adhere to most Buddhist principles.

 

The subject of my non-Christianity came up between my girlfriend and her youth minister because he basically pried it out of her. He had always been trying to get her to get me to go to church and she would explain to him that I would not do it. She *never* asked or pressured me to go with her or anything, and only let me know that the option was there if I wanted. Her minister made a comment about how if something happened to me and I was to die, I would go to hell. This offended her, and me also when I heard it.

 

Why is it that people assume they are correct and everyone else is screwed?

 

What the ass did not realize at the time is that his comment caused my girlfriend to become further from her religion.

 

This comment and other things about how people at her church were trying to tell her what to do helped to alienate her from her religion.

 

My girlfriend tells me a lot about how she looks up to the way I run my life. I have no religious "title" to my name, because I see no reason for it. I do not want to influence my girlfriend to abandon her religion, but at the same time I will not advocate religion either.

 

Right now, she still claims to have faith in Christianity, but she is not going to church or anything, so I know overtime it will fade.

 

How can I help her to choose what *she* really wants and not to just do what I do?

[D-Lish]

How can I help her to choose what *she* really wants and not to just do what I do?

 

It sounds like she did do what she wanted to do. You had nothing to do with the horrible way her church treated her. They alienated her, she made the choice to move away from those people. Rightly so I think.

 

Perhaps she simply came to the conclusion that that their actions were out of line and actually pretty non-christian! She probably has some notions about what it's like to be a christian- and those notions most likely include love and acceptance of others.

 

If I was your GF I would be really offended by the actions of these people.

That superior self righteous behaviour is appalling. I say good for your GF for making the decision to walk away.

 

I think she made this decision for herself. I think she IS doing what she wants to do and what she feels is right.

[fral945]

My girlfriend tells me a lot about how she looks up to the way I run my life. I have no religious "title" to my name, because I see no reason for it.

 

I envy you. Most women that I meet see that as a negative. Where did you find her?

 

How can I help her to choose what *she* really wants and not to just do what I do?

 

If you want to get involved then have an in depth discussion with her. Discuss the pros and cons of belief and non-belief. Present your case (the non-religious) and let her find others to present a religious case. She will have to make the decision on her own.

[quankanne]

as bnb suggests, encourage her to spend time with others who are willing to share their faith through fellowship. Maybe she'll go back to church ... or maybe she won't. However, if her spirituality has meaning to her, she'll appreciate your encouragement to nurture it.

 

frankly, this is what a good partner does: Gives the kind of support you are giving, without sitting in judgment. And right now, it sounds like she needs to step away to reassess just how she wants to live out her beliefs.

 

and frankly, that well-meaning minister handled it like a true jackass, IMO. The smart thing would have been to let her know that you have an open invitation to spend time with that community, then left it alone.

[disgracian]

My wife's head church guy married us, so perhaps she would benefit from finding a more relaxed church.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Geishawhelk]

Faith is not what happens in a church. Faith is what happens in your heart.

 

Other people do not make up a religion. What we believe and have faith in, makes up our religion.

 

Urge her to distinguish between God's Doctrine, and that of men.

[Eve]

My girlfriend tells me a lot about how she looks up to the way I run my life. I have no religious "title" to my name, because I see no reason for it. I do not want to influence my girlfriend to abandon her religion, but at the same time I will not advocate religion either.

 

Right now, she still claims to have faith in Christianity, but she is not going to church or anything, so I know overtime it will fade.

 

How can I help her to choose what *she* really wants and not to just do what I do?

 

I wonder why this Minster person has been asking so many questions about you? Has this Minister noticed changes in your girlfriend? Is it the sex before marraige thing? You ask a lot of questions here about sex you see so I was wondering if maybe your girlfriend has also become quite open about her sex life?

 

All I know is that only within a genuine friendship can such things be enquired about - whether the questioning is covert or overtly done. Pretty tactless discussion though on the part of the Minister none the less.

 

I would say that it is important for your girlfriend to truly ask God right now what He wants for her to do and not make any decisions based on the incident. Maybe this Minister person needs a good telling? Maybe your girlfriend is now questioning whether she really believes in hell?

 

I remember somewhere in the Bible Jesus said 'what is it to only love those who we love?', which to me says that there is a flipside to friendship. Clearly this man thinks he is doing your girlfriend a service. Is your girlfriend the sort to stand up for herself? By simply putting it to him that her relationship with you is private and off bounds, would that not be enough? It is ok to challenge others as it is for them to share their beliefs. It does sound as though this person thinks he has the right to dominate though which is not good.

 

Anyhow, another Scripture verse thing that I keep close to my heart is, 'study wisdom my son and make my heart joyful so that you may answer he who reproacheth'. I hope that over time your girlfriend will learn how to deal effectively with people as such in a manner which still allows them to maintain their humanity. Even if they have not allowed you such an option so as not to be phased by them.

 

.. But overall I can understand some of what your girlfriend is feeling because I have had a simular experience and no longer attend Church... but I am actually a pretty devout Christian.

 

I think the most important thing is for your girl to truly pray for direction in her own way. I always advocate praying together so that whatever is being sought is jointly acknowledged. Authentic prayer from the heart is answered. I would say that she would need to be very specific with whatever she asks of God.

 

Please watch over her. Sometimes people do not fair well when away from Church... I have seen this many times. It usually goes that there is a disagreement and suddenly one or both persons becomes thought of as satan, living down the road. Or they can end up over-compromising with others without faith, or just get miserable without others to share their faith with.

 

Be yourself around her. I think this is what she needs. If she persists in her faith, the answers will come.

 

I wish you both well.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[quankanne]

I wonder why this Minster person has been asking so many questions about you?

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that the minister wants to "save" OP ... and feels it's his Christian duty to badger her about it without realizing that he's actually losing two people: The one who is committed as well as the one whom he's trying to "save."

[Mahatma]

Eve - Yes, she lost her virginity to me. Her church does not know this, nor is it any of their business. I have had long talks with her about her faith since she started dating me and her response is that before she met me, she only dated within the church. All of her ideas and opinions came from the church. Now that she has influences other than the church, her values have changed too.

 

I believe it is likely the minister was trying to "save" her from me in a sense. In his eyes, I am a HORRIBLE influence on her. If only he knew all the "horrible" things she has done...

 

What I saw in my girlfriend when we first started dating was a lot of ignorant ideas that I knew came strait from what some person at church said. Things like whether or not homosexual people "choose" to be gay.

 

It is no doubt in my mind I have had a huge influence on her religious views. I am trying to decide whether or not it has been to her benefit.

[Geishawhelk]

The best person to answer that would be her.

And I would think it would be in the affirmative.

[gopher]

Women more so than men, seem to adapt to their partner's beliefs and interests especially during the new stages of a relationship. She should have her own beliefs and not just adapt yours without fully vetting them.

[Eve]

I see.

 

This could really change your relationship. She could end up resenting you over time. Make sure that she does not bury her head in the sand by allowing this to drag on. Although you have made your position clear regarding not objecting to her attending Church it really will seem like she has chosen you over her Church...

 

Encourage her to pray about it. Be there for her.

 

The Minister probably really loves her in his own way. She needs to speak to him as an adult. Dont know if he will listen though.. Sad really.. very sad.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[Mahatma]

I see.

 

This could really change your relationship. She could end up resenting you over time. Make sure that she does not bury her head in the sand by allowing this to drag on. Although you have made your position clear regarding not objecting to her attending Church it really will seem like she has chosen you over her Church...

 

Encourage her to pray about it. Be there for her.

 

The Minister probably really loves her in his own way. She needs to speak to him as an adult. Dont know if he will listen though.. Sad really.. very sad.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

 

 

When we first talked about it, I suggested she try to join a community with her college. At the moment she is at a community college, and there aren't many there except the one she was in. I told her how at my college, which is not very big, there are many clubs and houses and such that have religious bases. She is either transferring to my university, or to another university, both have quite a few religious communities within them.

 

Until then, however, we have the rest of this school year and summer to go. Basically until late August 09 for all your older people without children in the school system or non-Americans.

[Eve]

When we first talked about it, I suggested she try to join a community with her college. At the moment she is at a community college, and there aren't many there except the one she was in. I told her how at my college, which is not very big, there are many clubs and houses and such that have religious bases. She is either transferring to my university, or to another university, both have quite a few religious communities within them.

 

Until then, however, we have the rest of this school year and summer to go. Basically until late August 09 for all your older people without children in the school system or non-Americans.

 

Now that sounds really positive! I did not realise that you were at University. I imagined you both working, coming home and then having this unresolved religion thing going on in the background. I would agree that there is SO much to get involved in at Uni! Hopefully she will find a group of like minded individuals to share musings and faith with.

 

I am one to always think of ways of resolving issues so still wonder about the Minister and whether anything can be healed there. But I just dont know - mayber any further contact would be counter productive? Whatever you guys decide, above all else be there for each other as much as you can.

 

I can however envision that you may have to draw a firm boundary around this issue so that it does not effect your relationship... especially as there are quite a few more months until the transfer occurs. I dont know if your girl is one to keep going over things until she finds a resolution? If so the only thing I can think off is for her to meet up with the Minister and have an adult discussion about things, or change Church for the time being. I am not one to shy away from resolving problems so would opt for speaking with the Minister but realise that this could seem very daunting.

 

Just remember, things often are not as bad as they seem. Maybe he just doesnt want your girl to tell others about her relationship with you because of the transitory nature of many relationships nowadays? Just as one would not eat a ham sandwhich in a Mosque maybe the sexual side of your relationship should remain strictly personal between yourselves?

 

I dont know the ins and outs of why the Minister has taken the fire and brimstone approach and never will .. but I would say never give power to anything which you do not agree with.

 

He is just a man after all.

 

All the very best,

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[chris250]

Well I think she's on the right track for leaving the church. As a matter of fact I hope she stays away from churches altogether. She can still have a relationship with God at home.

 

It's good that she had this experience because maybe what the minister said has got her questioning the doctrine of hell. Hopefully she is. How could a loving God torture people forever in hell just because they didn't convert to a specific religion?

 

I have attended 2 funereals where the minister said that the deceased person is burning in hell at this very moment.

 

Well guess what? at least 7 or 8 people walked right out of that funereal. I decided to stay only because I wanted to hear what other poisonous BS was coming out of his mouth. But it's ok.

 

Sometimes it takes an experience like that to get some people to question if hell is a real place. I don't believe in hell.

[Eve]

Well I think she's on the right track for leaving the church. As a matter of fact I hope she stays away from churches altogether. She can still have a relationship with God at home.

 

It's good that she had this experience because maybe what the minister said has got her questioning the doctrine of hell. Hopefully she is. How could a loving God torture people forever in hell just because they didn't convert to a specific religion?

 

I have attended 2 funereals where the minister said that the deceased person is burning in hell at this very moment.

 

Well guess what? at least 7 or 8 people walked right out of that funereal. I decided to stay only because I wanted to hear what other poisonous BS was coming out of his mouth. But it's ok.

 

Sometimes it takes an experience like that to get some people to question if hell is a real place. I don't believe in hell.

 

American funerals sound very yuck indeed. In the UK I am quite sure that any person who conducted a funeral as such would be struck off immediately. Maybe I wont visit the states after all - although a massive place it does sound backward indeed. A victim mentality seems to prevail over comon sense!

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[quankanne]

Eve, that might be particular to a certain preacher, not to this country. Though to be honest, I've attended maybe only one or two non-Catholic services, and the one for my husband's step-granny was just plain weird. The senior pastor did a very good job telling us about Clifford's life, and how she was enjoying her eternal reward; the junior pastor could only talk about how she was reduced to grunting (she had a stroke) in her final days, but that every moan and groan was understood by God. Really, it was terrible. I thought my SiLs, who were a bit hysterical to start with, were going to pee their pants they were snickering so bad about the "moaning and groaning unto the Lord." That was a Southern Baptist 'do.

 

other funeral was their Aunt Ellen's, a Methodist service, was pretty nice – it was in a church, it was very respectful and the pastor's message was very, very positive. Made me wish I'd tried harder to get to know her as a person, because she sounded like an incredible woman.

 

neither of them were remotely like the Catholic events I've gone to, but Ellen's was an enjoyable one because of the reverence for her gift of life. Poor Clifford, though ...

 

I have attended 2 funereals where the minister said that the deceased person is burning in hell at this very moment. Well guess what? at least 7 or 8 people walked right out of that funereal. I decided to stay only because I wanted to hear what other poisonous BS was coming out of his mouth. But it's ok.

 

that's horrible – if you claim to be Christian, then your focus should be on the resurrected Christ and your stake in his victory ... not sitting as judge and jury for someone's final send-off!

 

Sometimes it takes an experience like that to get some people to question if hell is a real place. I don't believe in hell.

 

not to question hell, but to definitely question whether the minister even knows the God he claims to know!

[Eve]

Eve, that might be particular to a certain preacher, not to this country.

 

Yes. I am sure you are right Quankanne. I suppose I am pretty shocked by how polarised views seem to be.. I dont like it.

 

Maybe its like everything else though.. those shouting are the ones really with little to say in real terms?

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[Mahatma]

She can still have a relationship with God at home.

 

It's good that she had this experience because maybe what the minister said has got her questioning the doctrine of hell. Hopefully she is. How could a loving God torture people forever in hell just because they didn't convert to a specific religion?

 

You basically encompass my personal opinion with that.

[chris250]

I don't think that a deceased person's spiritual condition should even be talked about during the funereal service.

 

Regardless of what the preacher's personal beliefs are about the afterlife his job is to bring comfort to those who are mourning.

 

If I was doing a funereal service I wouldn't even bring up the issue of heaven and hell even though I personally believe everyone is going to heaven.

 

I would just talk about the deceased person's life. It's a time for eulogy and not time for a sermon.

 

That should keep everyone happy because those in attendance have diverse beliefs about the afterlife. Even atheists attend funerals.

 

To avoid offending anyone it's best that the subject of the afterlife is not even brought up.

[Eve]

I don't think that a deceased person's spiritual condition should even be talked about during the funereal service.

 

Regardless of what the preacher's personal beliefs are about the afterlife his job is to bring comfort to those who are mourning.

 

If I was doing a funereal service I wouldn't even bring up the issue of heaven and hell even though I personally believe everyone is going to heaven.

 

I would just talk about the deceased person's life. It's a time for eulogy and not time for a sermon.

 

That should keep everyone happy because those in attendance have diverse beliefs about the afterlife. Even atheists attend funerals.

 

To avoid offending anyone it's best that the subject of the afterlife is not even brought up.

 

To bring some reality to this juncture in the topic... what is said at funerals are usually decided amicably between the people concerned and the Minister. In this light I have decided that I dont believe your story Chris... or you belong to some sort of strange community. In fact your pessimism and misreading of Scripture is beginning to grate on me now. In your own time read Luke 13.27 and figure out how everyone is going to heaven whether they want to or not. I dont think Christianity is for you.

 

I only hope that Mahatmas girl resolves this issue if only not to become like you.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[disgracian]

I don't believe Chris' story either.

 

Cheers,

D.

[taiko]

I don't believe Chris' story either.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Maybe he lives near the Westboro Bapist Church? There are freaks out there. Some kill women in God's name so pilots will open cockpit doors and they can use the airplane as a missle. Others say you are going to hell at a socially unacceptable time.

 

Do I believe that Chris heard a minister twice say a dead pereson is going to hell? NO! Do I think he probably heard an altar call as part of a funeral service and his prejudiced mind misheard? Probably

[Mahatma]

Well, the way he explained it made it seem as if a large amount of funeral services in America talk about the person's damnation if they were not Christian

 

I have never seen a funeral service that spoke about someone going to hell. I have never been to a funeral service for someone who was not a Christian though (been to only three in my life).

 

I can not imagine something like that being said at one, but I also can not imagine a reason why he would lie. Even if the story is true, it is absolutely meaningless to me because it may happen once in a thousand and it is just an issue with that specific Christian minister. They are not all that blunt.

 

In my case, however, I have had plenty of ministers and followers tell me I am going to hell and need to be saved. I have had girlfriends of the past who have been caught between my beliefs and others telling them it is wrong. We usually break up, which is what they want in my opinion.

 

I see people like this as the role Samuel Jackson played in the movie Lakeview Terrace. I am the bad "influence" on my girlfriend so they try to stir up trouble between the two of us to eventually drive us apart. The majority of preachers and such do not do this, but there is always that one person who attempts to drive a wedge in the relationship.

 

This, however, does not mean I dislike the Christian religion. You will find things like this in every religion, every culture. Some people get a rise out of doing these types of things.

[Eve]

I was wondering if there is an update Mahatma? Or are you both going to leave matters until a transfer becomes possible?

 

Regards,

Eve xx