hunkahunkaburninlove Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 This woman is a train wreck. Do not breed with her. She is a free spirit. Set her free. She will be nothing but drama. And know you are not that special sex wise. The septic tank comment blows me away. You should have followed her comment up with " Wow, a real sperm bank huh?" Then to be so cavalier about abortion. This woman is not wife material. If you love her stay with her. But don't marry her. If she asks, be real frank and tell her she is a train wreck. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted February 8, 2009 Share Posted February 8, 2009 This woman is so wrong for you...especially in the long run and your future. You two are on two completely different paths in life..She has a particular lifestyle and attitude that isn't like yours. Trouble follows her. She makes bad choices and has bad luck. You cannot rescue her, or save her.. You may love her, but that love is NOT enough to make a life with this woman. Tell her you're sorry and break it off with her. Otherwise your life will fall apart and become a mess like hers. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 I don't think that you need to give her this input and I doubt that she'd listen to it anyway. Any discussion you have with her should focus on why the relationship doesn't have a future for you... Mr. Lucky That's just it. I cannot imagine how I would tell her why the relationship does not have a future without mentioning at least some of the things that I have mentioned here. That is really the question here. How specific should I be? I mean, I could say things like, " we have different values, we have different goals, we have different backgrounds, etc." which all sound good and are truthful, but are all very general things. If she asks me to explain, then what else can I say other than the fact that I am disturbed by her daughter's state of development and that I am not comfortable with her parenting style. I am not comfortable with her priorities and am concerned that she seems to have a completely different set of ideas and values when it comes to the importance (in my mind) of a stable family unit. All of this gives me severe reservations about trying to build something with her for the long term. The truth is, and I will go ahead and type it out, is that she is woefully out of touch with her daughter's needs. She allows her daughter to live in squalor and teaches her no valuable life skills whatsoever. She is not nearly as aware as she should be in my opinion about her daughter's activities and progress in school. I am the one who has to tell her daughter to put her feet on the floor when we are at a restauraunt eating, I am the one who has to tell her not to touch and play with random things when we are at someone's house. I am the one who has to tell her daughter to stop running around and horseplaying when visiting a museum for instance. Her mother tells her these things but is very inconsistent which in my opinion is just as bad as not trying to discipline her at all. This utter lack of discipline annoys the hell out of me. On the other hand I care for my girlfriend and know that she has not had an easy time either. She was raised by her Mom (not a steller role model herself) and grandparents, as her biological father died when she was a child (suicide). Another girl with father issues! She has said that she has abandonment issues. Her husband treated her horribly (neglect) and virtually abandoned her and her daughter when she was in her mid 20's. Prior to finally leaving, he would dissappear for days sometimes. She told me that those days were so lonely for her and she was utterly heartbroken when she found out that he had cheated on her. I am sure that this explains much of her behavior over the last 6 years or so. It is apparent to me that she cares for me deeply and I feel that she has likely never experienced the level of attention and affection that I have shown her. What probably happened is that when other dudes were exposed to what I have seen, they bolted as many here have suggested that I do. It was not apparent to be at the very beginning how screwed up everything was. I felt so comfortable with how it progressed initially as there was no pressure from her for anything. She said that she liked me very much form the beginning, and purposefully did not want to complicate things with physical intimacy too early. We met, immediately clicked and hit it off and started hanging out regularly (several times per week). The thing is, we did not even kiss until we had been hanging out for over a month. (That seems rare these days). She has told me since then that she liked me so much after our initial four plus hour conversation on our first date, that she did not care if sex did not happen for months because she did not want to screw up anything with me. She knew that I was at the time just about a year out of a long term relationship so she said she was proceeding gingerly. My feelings grew for her and then only after a bond was formed was I gradually exposed to all of this crap. When this thing ends, I fear we may both end up heartbroken for a time. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 How would she feel about reading the thread? Or at least, print some of it out, make it into a letter, and give it to her.... The thing is, you might feel some guilt here, but the way it looks to us, she has a whole lot more to feel guilty about. And not a little bit ashamed, too. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 9, 2009 Author Share Posted February 9, 2009 How would she feel about reading the thread? Or at least, print some of it out, make it into a letter, and give it to her.... The thing is, you might feel some guilt here, but the way it looks to us, she has a whole lot more to feel guilty about. And not a little bit ashamed, too. Yeah, I have thought about that actually. How would she feel about reading some of what has been said here? I have kind of daydreamed honestly about doing something along the lines of which you describe here - Printing off a portion to make it a little more objective - though I know it won't be from her perspective. Hmmm. Regardless of what happens, I need to communicate some of this stuff to her-----one way or another. Link to post Share on other sites
Ronni_W Posted February 9, 2009 Share Posted February 9, 2009 I need to communicate some of this stuff to her-----one way or another. Well, you don't have to give any more specifics than she asks for, really. You do need to KNOW your side of the conversation (be clear on ALL your reasons for leaving) but you can allow her to "lead" how much of it you reveal. Example. You: "We have different values." Her: "What do you mean?" Y: "I don't agree with how you have raised Daughter." H: "What don't you agree with?" Y: "Well, developmentally, she is far behind her age-group." Etc., etc. There likely will come a point where she won't want to know anymore -- she'll get pissed off and, if you are a lucky man, then she'll be the one telling you to get out. :bunny: Cos, that is all you want...to get out. At the point she gets angry, THAT is the perfect amount of information that you need to give her. (Well, actually, the piece just before that .) Because there's no point telling people what they do NOT want to hear. It's just futile and frustrating to the Self. I do agree with you that, IF you can help her become a better parent, then it is your obligation (to the child) to at least try. But you CANNOT help the parent if she will not be helped, and does not care, and is not open to the information that you do have. Link to post Share on other sites
Alma Mobley Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I stand by what I said. He should break it off with her, but he should let her know WHY and the truth -- the truth being this is not how normal people behave, and she should at least get counseling for her daughter. That's all.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ormolu611 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 I stand by what I said. He should break it off with her, but he should let her know WHY and the truth -- the truth being this is not how normal people behave, and she should at least get counseling for her daughter. That's all.... Update: I am still with my girlfriend, though I am in therapy right now and have met this therapist for three times so far. I am just starting to get the hang of it and think it will benefit me to put my whole relationship into the proper perspective. Well, this morning, my girlfriend drops me a bomb (at least a bomb to me.) She was feeling stressed about some family/financial issue and mentioned dancing as a way to bring in extra income-as if to say that she couldn't do that now. I laughed and said she would probably be too modest to do something like that and thought she was joking. She then told me in a very matter of fact way that she actually did strip (though she prefers to call it dancing) in a couple of fully nude strip bars for two years a couple of years prior to meeting me. She said she enjoyed it, and she described her little white outfit that she used to wear with her white thigh high stockings . . . . she said the money was great. My jaw dropped. I think I was more bothered by the fact that we have been dating for nearly a year and a half, and I had no idea that she had done this. I felt that she should have told me in the beginning or not at all, and I told her that to tell me this now was very unfair to me. She said that she did not tell me earlier on because she was afraid that I would judge her - so I feel duped. I told her that I was very unsettled by the whole thing and that I felt that I did not know her after all. I also said that it was my right to know this up front precisely so that I could judge her as someone I wanted to be with or not, or she could have excercised her right to never tell me. Either one would have been fine....Of course, my mind starts thinking about lap dances that she gave, etc and so I asked her about giving lap dances and she said that yes, she did that as part of the job. Who the hell is this woman???? So here I am sitting here in an emotional downward spiral......I think that I am going to be sick...really physically ill. Shoot me now.... Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Ormolu, I can understand how you slowly got into this relationship with an unsuitable girl -- slowly slowly (have you heard the story about how to boil a frog? That you cannot drop it in hot water cuz it will immediately hop out, but if you place the frog in cold water -- it lets its defenses down, and it stays in there while you warm up the pot until the water boils...thats YOU) However, now that you have gained a preview into your forthcoming life (ha ha), what exactly is stopping you from pulling out? Anticipation of a little pain NOW, instead of a trainwreck of the rest-of-your-life? I hope you are doing Independent counseling where your best interests will be a priority, and not couples counseling to try match you two up! Let me just say that when there is as Wide a Discrepancy in two people in a Relationship such as yours, that the 'worse off' person doesn't only improve, you know, unfortunately there is a REGRESSION TOWARDS THE MEAN for both of you, which means its good for her because she will improve a little and its bad for you because you will worsen a little... is that what you want for yourself? Unfortunately, you are not going to be able to be her knight in shining armor without taking some damage to yourself.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ormolu611 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Share Posted March 12, 2009 Yes. I am in individual couseling and not couples therapy. She does not know that I am seeing a therapist now. I think that it has finally become clear that I need to end this thing, now I just need to do it....somehow. This whole experience has been traumatic for me....the whole damned relationship nearly...... Link to post Share on other sites
Athena Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Yes. I am in individual couseling and not couples therapy. She does not know that I am seeing a therapist now. I think that it has finally become clear that I need to end this thing, now I just need to do it....somehow. This whole experience has been traumatic for me....the whole damned relationship nearly...... You're obviously a decent man and this must be hard for you to have to do, since its not only going to hurt you to let go of a g/f while the R is still 'going well', but you can foresee the breakup will hurt her and affect her daughter... so the good guy in you is stalling, right? Just rip it off like the proverbial band-aid.... do it NOW... but here's the thing: be very careful in listing your Reasons as you did here on your Thread... the reason I say this is because those reasons will just be her target to focus all her attention on trying to change for you to stay with her (perhaps) and you will end up feeling bad for 'batting' her away as you have to over ride, or ignore her pleas or promises to change to please you... so... what you have to do is Tell her you are ending your relationship, that you had a good time with her, that you loved her, but you cannot see a future with her and *YOU DO NOT WANT TO CONTINUE THE RELATIONSHIP* I stress the *want* part, because No one can argue with you over what you feel/want. They can, however, argue about a daughter's dirty room, or dancing for money, etc. The thing is now that you have made your decision, you must not give her the opportunity to Talk You Out Of It!!! Good luck, and let us know! Link to post Share on other sites
Aloros Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Sorry that you're going through this Ormolu, but I have to echo what everyone else says - get out now! Can you imagine if you married this woman and had children with her? You'd essentially be a single parent! An 11-year-old peeing her pants? This woman is treating her daughter, who is supposed to be one of THE most important people to her in the WORLD, like crap. How do you think she'll treat you eventually? I don't care how messy your kid is - it's your job as a parent to make sure that they clean their room. The condom comment and the stripper thing... Not to say all former strippers are horrible, but why is she telling you all this stuff now?? Yikes! Honestly, what with the daughter's bedroom, I'd report the woman to CPS so she could be monitored and maybe her daughter would get the care she needs. ETA: Agreed with Athena on how to end it. Don't leave any room to interpretation. Link to post Share on other sites
sugarmomma Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 It is usually a fear of being alone or low self worth that causes us to stay in unhealthy relationships At the end of time, we are all alone on our journeys into awareness, rethinking and reevaluating the decisions we have made in our lives and who we are becoming. Leaving any relationship that doesn't work, forces one to look at who they really are, perhaps for the first time, as we have come to understand our short comings, work on ourselves in the evolution of consciousness. You only live once. Make the most of it. Ask God to help you see things the way they really are as opposed to how you would like them to be. Always works for me. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
SierraRose Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 First, run like hell... then, call Child Protective Services... Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer Girl Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 Perhaps you realize you need to break it off... because you understand this relationship is not going to work long term.... From what I have read the hard part is trying to come up with a solution on how to break it off... Afraid of hurting this person and maybe her seeing it as a shock that she woud not have any idea you were feeling this way... It is never easy to break up and try to find the words to do it.... But you will drive yourself crazy knowing you have made a descion and not be able to carry it out... The longer you harbour those feelings the harder it is going to be for you... Perhaps you have let it go on to long... Communication is the key... The more she reveals the more you need to let her know the type of behavior she has portrayed is not the type of relationship you want. The more you accept and hide makes her more acceptable to you knowing and feeling that whatever she does you will still be there for her It is better to come clean.... Do it face to face and let her know the things you love about her and that you and her are not in the same place when it comes to marriage because you feel her dancing, her idea of FWB and the care of her daughter is not the same way you feel.... We grew up different and I understand you had a hard life... I think it is best we go our seperate ways and I am not judging you just need you to know I don't see this relationship going any further..... Just want to be honest... Our ideas and values are different.... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ormolu611 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 The more you accept and hide makes her more acceptable to you knowing and feeling that whatever she does you will still be there for her It is better to come clean.... Do it face to face and let her know the things you love about her and that you and her are not in the same place when it comes to marriage because you feel her dancing, her idea of FWB and the care of her daughter is not the same way you feel.... We grew up different and I understand you had a hard life... I think it is best we go our seperate ways and I am not judging you just need you to know I don't see this relationship going any further..... Just want to be honest... Our ideas and values are different.... Thanks to everyone for responding. Surfer Girl, this really rings true to me right now. I do think that she feels more comfortable the longer she is with me and I feel more horrified - and scared! I am up early this morning as this whole thing has affected my sleep and even my appetite. I barely ate yesterday. I am so angry at her right now and so very disappointed and even depressed. I was able for the first time this morning to clearly envision ending it with her - and this empowered me - I have just been so disgusted that she would deliver this latest smack in the face to me the way that she did, and I am terrified as I see the person that she really is coming sharper into focus. How could I have been so naive? When talking about her to my therapist, it has been hard for me to speak badly of her. For one, I am embarrassed - and secondly, I find myself in that setting almost wanting to protect her and not wanting to betray her - still. I still feel some sense of loyalty I guess. Strange huh? We're making good progress as to why I may feel this way.....I never thought of myself as being someone with low self esteem or anything, so its interesting. I do want to say that despite all of the advice about getting out, which I do agree with, this entire thing is emotionally very difficult and draining for me, and I feel a great sense of loss already. I feel betrayed in that I was sold an image up front, fell for it by getting emotionally involved, and then have since been entangled in this messy, crappy situation. I cannot describe how surreal it is to wake up this morning knowing that my girlfriend of one and a half years danced for money for a two year period relatively recently and that I was completely clueless. Completely. Like I said, it is not even so much the dancing as the fact that I was clueless. I find this so unsettling and I am shaken. She should have told me early on or not at all. This is just icing on the cake to all of the other issues. What else is out there? What's next? I am sad not for any actual loss, but just what I perceive to have lost. I had somehow convinced myself that I found someone who made me feel good and who was good for me. The realization that this is not the case is what makes me sad and despondent. Now, I have to end it. This is going to be hard. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ormolu611 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 Let me just say that when there is as Wide a Discrepancy in two people in a Relationship such as yours, that the 'worse off' person doesn't only improve, you know, unfortunately there is a REGRESSION TOWARDS THE MEAN for both of you, which means its good for her because she will improve a little and its bad for you because you will worsen a little... is that what you want for yourself? Unfortunately, you are not going to be able to be her knight in shining armor without taking some damage to yourself.... Thanks Athena. You know, reading over this thread and all of the advice that I have gotten has not been easy, even though I think the advice has been spot on. It's just been hard to face reality with this.....to look into my girl's big brown eyes and tell her that this isn't going to work and that I am moving on. Link to post Share on other sites
manugeorge Posted March 13, 2009 Share Posted March 13, 2009 It is usually a fear of being alone or low self worth that causes us to stay in unhealthy relationships This is soo true, your low self esteem is what is making you stay in this relationship. I don't think it's love or whatever else you want to term it, it is your lack of confidence in yourself, your co-dependency and your inability to stand alone. Relationships are your crutch, judging by the fact that you barely ended a 10 year stretch before jumping into another one. You've never really been alone, your comfort zone is relationshipville and you will rationalize staying in ANY relationship even when it is toxic. You're selling yourself short. Trust yourself to handle the unknown and end it. Will the break up hurt? ofcourse it will. But people go through it everyday and come out just fine on the other side. Live a little, earn your broken heart battle scars like the rest of the population. It doesn't kill, it will only make you stronger. Someone had mention before that you are compromising your integrity and your values just to be with this woman. And that was so sad when I read it. Your fear of losing her is making you lose yourself, who you are, Is ANYONE worth that? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ormolu611 Posted March 13, 2009 Author Share Posted March 13, 2009 This is soo true, your low self esteem is what is making you stay in this relationship. I don't think it's love or whatever else you want to term it, it is your lack of confidence in yourself, your co-dependency and your inability to stand alone. Relationships are your crutch, judging by the fact that you barely ended a 10 year stretch before jumping into another one. You've never really been alone, your comfort zone is relationshipville and you will rationalize staying in ANY relationship even when it is toxic. You're selling yourself short. Trust yourself to handle the unknown and end it. Will the break up hurt? ofcourse it will. But people go through it everyday and come out just fine on the other side. Live a little, earn your broken heart battle scars like the rest of the population. It doesn't kill, it will only make you stronger. Someone had mention before that you are compromising your integrity and your values just to be with this woman. And that was so sad when I read it. Your fear of losing her is making you lose yourself, who you are, Is ANYONE worth that? Manugeorge, thanks for this. It was hard to read, but I need multiple slaps in the face I think. Thanks for one more slap! Your right. Earn my broken heart battle scars like the rest of the population REALLY stood out to me. That and the notion that I should trust myself to handle the unknown. Sheesh. I feel like such a weakling and as if I may weep as I write this...I am afraid to be alone, and I don't know how that happened. I never felt that way prior to my 10 year relationship. When I met my current girlfriend, I was finally getting to be happy again as a single person. That is part of it for me I think...the fact that everyone seems so scarred sometimes, and that scares me. I see people all of the time with hang ups and issues that stem from poor relationships in their past or present. I mean, look at my girlfriend - a good portion of her issues probably stem from her ex-husband. Talk about battle scars! It is all very discouraging. I just want to be happy damn it. No drama. I don't ask for much. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 When talking about her to my therapist, it has been hard for me to speak badly of her. For one, I am embarrassed - and secondly, I find myself in that setting almost wanting to protect her and not wanting to betray her - still. I still feel some sense of loyalty I guess. Strange huh? We're making good progress as to why I may feel this way..... Why pay for therapy and then be less than honest with your therapist? Although "I'll stick my head in the sand and hope the whole thing goes away" has been your MO from day one. Hard to see this getting better unless you're willing to confront this head on... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
RecordProducer Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Ormolu, apparently you judge your GF for having casual sexual relationships. You further assume many things that you have no information of. You hate her daughter and you should stay away from that child before you expose her to further trauma. The last thing she needs is a step-father who hates her guts. The way you talk about her messiness and urinating problem is disgusting. You don't deserve to be around children. The girl seems to be caring and loving: she would take care of her mom - and even you - if she won the lottery. Your GF is what she is, but at least she is honest and open with you. Your insecurities about how many men she has slept with and how special you are YOUR problem. My husband has had numerous women before me and it didn't make me feel less special. On the contrary: it made me feel like I am better than all of them since he chose to marry me. Besides, it seems like she only had several men, but she frequently had sex with them. What's your problem? Low libido? Hubby and I are separated now, but he adores my sons from my first marriage. Having a man who hates my sons, the way you hate her daughter, would be a night mare. Run from that woman because you will only destroy that child's childhood with your hatred toward her. Just for the record, I don't identify with your GF - I am not sleeping with guys too often and the condoms I've used between my four serious relationships (I am 34) could be counted on one of my hands. I just don't see that the three of you could co-exist in the same life. Link to post Share on other sites
Girlygirl1977 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 Record Producer may be right on some things but in the end you and this women have different values and you need to run, not walk from her. You can find more compatible people in this world. The hygience for her child is also horrendous! Link to post Share on other sites
murphomatic Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 You further assume many things that you have no information of. You hate her daughter ... etcInteresting perspective and assertions for someone who lambasts the notion of assumption. I completely disagree with your response, and think it reeks of some sort of subjective bias. Perhaps mothers who let their young children live in a squalid home, sitting in pools of their own urine amongst piles of dog excrement are not cause for revulsion to the point of alarm in your world ... nor does the scene of the front door being a man-dispenser seem to concern you. But I suspect (and hope) you are a constituent of the minority. I didn't read anything that construed hatred toward the child - only sorrow and concern that leads to his disgust of the mother. Granted I can agree with you, to a point, that past relationships aren't the business of present mates. However in the context of how the mother's past life-style has affected psychological damage in the now-present child, I think his concern in that regard is justified. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ormolu611 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Share Posted March 14, 2009 Why pay for therapy and then be less than honest with your therapist? Although "I'll stick my head in the sand and hope the whole thing goes away" has been your MO from day one. Hard to see this getting better unless you're willing to confront this head on... Mr. Lucky Yeah, I hear you. I actually have been up front with her (my therapist). Having said that, it has just been really hard to verbalize and to actually hear myself say some of the things about my girlfriend that alarm me - to the point where I choke up..... Link to post Share on other sites
Girlygirl1977 Posted March 14, 2009 Share Posted March 14, 2009 You can't admit things to your therapist I think because they are so absurd. You are accepting a situation which you can't even admit to outloud. Your relationship is not a viable/healthy one and I suggest strongly that you take the steps to extricate yourself from this and find a healthier one. Link to post Share on other sites
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