I told you he's always honest with me....

[Billie63]

Nah, I think he was a normal guy before he got married, you know, dated around, whatever, but then he moved over to this country, met his W, his visa was going to expire soon and he felt he was at an age where he should just settle down anyway, and she felt comfortable, so he got married.

 

This rings serious alarm bells for me. One of the reasons he married her was because his visa was running out?

 

I think it tells you a lot about the man.

 

It proves he has a ruthless side. It also tells me that he never truly was in love with her and married for convenience.

 

As you have said all along you believe he loves her but not in that way - this visa business makes me agree with you.

 

Having said that, I don't believe he'll leave her now, not with three young kids.

[NoIDidn't]

This rings serious alarm bells for me. One of the reasons he married her was because his visa was running out?

 

I think it tells you a lot about the man.

 

It proves he has a ruthless side. It also tells me that he never truly was in love with her and married for convenience.

 

As you have said all along you believe he loves her but not in that way - this visa business makes me agree with you.

 

Having said that, I don't believe he'll leave her now, not with three young kids.

 

Not to get into a match over who he loves more or best, but I don't think he loves anyone that doesn't benefit himself in some way.

 

He seems to make sure that he gets what he wants at the expense of others. Love isn't something he considers - as he has already admitted to in the OP. He wasn't looking for love with Kismet. He was looking for sex. So, he wasn't looking for love when he married his W, he was looking for Permanent Residency or Citizenship. Heck, even having the kids solidifies his stay in the States.

 

Zeroing in on this comment, just makes him a hateful, User.

 

(I have family members that married into the family in cases just like this. They have cheated from day one. And always will. But they will never divorce because that was the deal they made - with themselves apparently - to stay with their children's other parent. What it does to the children is very angering, though! - sorry for the vent)

[whichwayisup]

Not to get into a match over who he loves more or best, but I don't think he loves anyone that doesn't benefit himself in some way.

 

The thing is, now his life has included TWO women for 4 years. He's gotten used to it and THAT is why he won't end it with Kis or walk away from his marriage. Why would he when the guy gets the best out of both worlds?

[Billie63]

Not to get into a match over who he loves more or best, but I don't think he loves anyone that doesn't benefit himself in some way.

 

He seems to make sure that he gets what he wants at the expense of others. Love isn't something he considers - as he has already admitted to in the OP. He wasn't looking for love with Kismet. He was looking for sex. So, he wasn't looking for love when he married his W, he was looking for Permanent Residency or Citizenship. Heck, even having the kids solidifies his stay in the States.

 

Zeroing in on this comment, just makes him a hateful, User.

 

(I have family members that married into the family in cases just like this. They have cheated from day one. And always will. But they will never divorce because that was the deal they made - with themselves apparently - to stay with their children's other parent. What it does to the children is very angering, though! - sorry for the vent)

 

It's not a question of who he loves best - I'm not even sure he does love Kismet. But Kismet all along has said she didn't believe he was truly in love with his wife and a lot of posters, including myself, disagreed with her.

 

But this visa business has changed my view and I think credit should be given to Kismet - she knew all along. Kismet I just wish you'd mentioned earlier about the visa business. It all makes sense now - I always wondered why he had a wandering eye so soon after his marriage - now I see.

[bentnotbroken]

Not to get into a match over who he loves more or best' date=' [b']but I don't think he loves anyone that doesn't benefit himself in some way.[/b]

 

He seems to make sure that he gets what he wants at the expense of others. Love isn't something he considers - as he has already admitted to in the OP. He wasn't looking for love with Kismet. He was looking for sex. So, he wasn't looking for love when he married his W, he was looking for Permanent Residency or Citizenship. Heck, even having the kids solidifies his stay in the States.

 

Zeroing in on this comment, just makes him a hateful, User.

 

(I have family members that married into the family in cases just like this. They have cheated from day one. And always will. But they will never divorce because that was the deal they made - with themselves apparently - to stay with their children's other parent. What it does to the children is very angering, though! - sorry for the vent)

 

 

One of the reasons I haven't posted is because this bag of flesh and bones is using everyone. While I of course I don't agree with Kismet's choices, this is a sad sack of crap that is in the business of destruction for his own personal needs. Kis if you don't walk away, there may be nothing of you left to walk away.

[KismetGirl]

Sorry about that...fat-fingered that...it was meant to be OW. I apologize for confusing things.

 

But...I'm still curious about the answer to my question.

 

Of course I don't want to be in this A.....it was never something I wanted....I just feel so consumed by....i don't even know what words are adequate.

 

Ever read Dorothy Parker? I love her poems:

 

Accursed from their birth they be

Who seek to find monogamy,

Pursuing it from bed to bed ---

I think they would be better dead.

 

 

Or this one, even better:

 

Symptom Recital

 

I do not like my state of mind;

I'm bitter, querulous, unkind.

I hate my legs, I hate my hands,

I do not yearn for lovelier lands.

I dread the dawn's recurrent light;

I hate to go to bed at night.

I snoot at simple, earnest folk.

I cannot take the simplest joke.

I find no peace in paint or type.

My world is but a lot of tripe.

I'm disillusioned, empty-breasted.

For what I think, I'd be arrested.

I am not sick. I am not well.

My quondam dreams are shot to hell.

My soul is crushed, my spirit sore:

I do not like me any more.

I cavil, quarrel, grumble, grouse.

I ponder on the narrow house.

I shudder at the thought of men.

I'm due to fall in love again.

 

 

I'd like to end this affair, I wish I could just walk away so easily, but everytime I try it seems like I falter back again. That last poem actually really desribes how I feel to be honest.

 

Like I said to JJ, I want to just scream and yell at him. Just wish I could find the right words to say. I think everytime we break things off I feel worse before I never really put up much of a fight, never say much, and I feel like there's always alot left unsaid. And I hate that. I refuse to let him go back to his aesthetically perfect life without taking some responsibility for what he's put me through all this time. It's just not fair....

[whichwayisup]

Of course I don't want to be in this A.....it was never something I wanted....I just feel so consumed by....

 

Then please get HELP by a professional to help you gain the strength to walk away. Someone to teach you coping techniques, skills to stay strong and get your self confidence back. You are addicted to him, obsessed almost - Just look how it's taken over your whole life, and not in a good way.

 

You can't let fear of letting go, dealing with the pain and walking away prevent you from doing what you KNOW you have to do. I honestly believe that if you DO end it, you'll feel some sort of relief.

[KismetGirl]

This rings serious alarm bells for me. One of the reasons he married her was because his visa was running out?

 

I think it tells you a lot about the man.

 

It proves he has a ruthless side. It also tells me that he never truly was in love with her and married for convenience.

 

As you have said all along you believe he loves her but not in that way - this visa business makes me agree with you.

 

Having said that, I don't believe he'll leave her now, not with three young kids.

 

Yeah....i thought I had mentioned he wasn't from here. He came on a work visa, our former boss used to like to remind him all the time that if he f**ked up he'd be on the next plane back to the UK, which used to drive him crazy.

 

Anyway, I do believe HE thought he was doing the right thing when he married her. I believe that he THOUGHT he loved her enough to marry her. I think if he had waited longer and not rushed into things, he might have realized it was more comfort with her than being in love with her, but I guess he didn't want to wait. That's his mistake for rushing into things.

 

I've always said he cares about his W and he loves her, and of course he adores and loves his children. My only thing was that I firmly believed he was not IN love with his wife, and that always seemed like an important distinction to me.

 

I know it has no bearing on the future of this scenario....he isn't going to leave her regardless, after 7 years of marriage and three kids and all that jazz he's pretty happy with how things are going...I only wish he'd realize that when you cheat on someone so early in your marriage and for so long....that it's not just because your marital sex life sucks. your marital sex life sucking is not a problem.....it is a symptom of a problem between two people. But I guess I can't really make him see that if he doesn't want to , can I.... *sigh*

[Billie63]

Yeah....i thought I had mentioned he wasn't from here. He came on a work visa, our former boss used to like to remind him all the time that if he f**ked up he'd be on the next plane back to the UK, which used to drive him crazy.

 

Anyway, I do believe HE thought he was doing the right thing when he married her. I believe that he THOUGHT he loved her enough to marry her. I think if he had waited longer and not rushed into things, he might have realized it was more comfort with her than being in love with her, but I guess he didn't want to wait. That's his mistake for rushing into things.

 

I've always said he cares about his W and he loves her, and of course he adores and loves his children. My only thing was that I firmly believed he was not IN love with his wife, and that always seemed like an important distinction to me.

 

I know it has no bearing on the future of this scenario....he isn't going to leave her regardless, after 7 years of marriage and three kids and all that jazz he's pretty happy with how things are going...I only wish he'd realize that when you cheat on someone so early in your marriage and for so long....that it's not just because your marital sex life sucks. your marital sex life sucking is not a problem.....it is a symptom of a problem between two people. But I guess I can't really make him see that if he doesn't want to , can I.... *sigh*

 

Yes I remember you saying he's a Brit (as I am) but if you mentioned the visa business I missed it.

 

Kismet please get it into your head he did not believe he loved her enough to marry her - if it wasn't for the visa thing he would not have rushed into it - that was the deciding factor. He thought he would have an easy ride with her - his line about having kids with her because he thought he owed her? Does that not make sense? He knew what he did and his guilt led to them having three kids.

 

I personally don't believe this marriage will last, he may leave in 15 years time - I do not say this to give you hope - but the heart wants what it wants - it's not just kids that bond a marriage, it's the heady, euphoric in love honeymoon period that lays the foundation to a healthy long lasting relationship.

[KismetGirl]

It's not a question of who he loves best - I'm not even sure he does love Kismet. But Kismet all along has said she didn't believe he was truly in love with his wife and a lot of posters, including myself, disagreed with her.

 

But this visa business has changed my view and I think credit should be given to Kismet - she knew all along. Kismet I just wish you'd mentioned earlier about the visa business. It all makes sense now - I always wondered why he had a wandering eye so soon after his marriage - now I see.

 

Yeah....I mean, as I said, Im not sure it makes any difference at this point, but it just didn't seem normal that , if you really are in love with someone, that you so easily start cheating on them so soon into the marriage (and, he'd obviously been THINKING about his dissatisfaction before I came into the picture, even though he hadn't acted on it until he met me). I guess that's why I was so vehement in my previous posts about trying to get people to understand why I didn't think he was IN love with her, and I don't know why I never mentioned the visa thing, I guess I thought it had been implied somewhere before when I mentioned he wasn't from here, but there you have it, now you know.

 

I don't think he married her with the sole intention of getting to stay in the US, BUT I do think that this visa business made him rush into marriage faster than he might have otherwise, and that had he not been under some pressure to do so, he would have realized this wasn't the right woman for him in the long run. But I guess that's neither here nor there....he married her, they have kids, they have a life together, and he doesn't seem to want to leave all that. It frustrates the hell out of me......

[whichwayisup]

he married her, they have kids, they have a life together, and he doesn't seem to want to leave all that. It frustrates the hell out of me......

 

All you can control is yourself. If you're getting closer to your ENOUGH is ENOUGH stage with him, that's GOOD. It means that you're a step closer to walking away beacuse this affair/situation IS frustrating you and you're going in circles with him. It isn't going anywhere except staying in AFFAIR MODE. you know he isn't leaving his wife and kids, so why stick around and settle for being his OW.

[Owl]

If you truly want to break off the affair, but find yourself "faltering" and resuming it later, then the answer is simple...not easy...but simple.

 

End it in an irrevocable way.

 

Take actions that PREVENT you from resuming the affair.

 

Write him an email, telling him that you cannot take this anymore. It's OVER...point blank, end of story. Tell him that if he contacts you in ANY way, or if he shows up at your house for ANY reason...you will IMMEDIATELY contact his wife.

 

Block his email and his phone calls/texts. If you need to, change your phone number(s). Remove his number and his contact information from your phone and computer.

 

If you do anything less than this...then just resign yourself to permanently being his OW, and accept it as what you truly want out of life.

 

This is SIMPLE...it's not easy...but it is simple.

 

The only way to do this is to rip the bandaid off and make it happen...one fast shot.

 

Otherwise, you'll never be out of this situation until he's caught.

[herenow]

If you truly want to break off the affair, but find yourself "faltering" and resuming it later, then the answer is simple...not easy...but simple.

 

End it in an irrevocable way.

 

Take actions that PREVENT you from resuming the affair.

 

Write him an email, telling him that you cannot take this anymore. It's OVER...point blank, end of story. Tell him that if he contacts you in ANY way, or if he shows up at your house for ANY reason...you will IMMEDIATELY contact his wife.

 

Block his email and his phone calls/texts. If you need to, change your phone number(s). Remove his number and his contact information from your phone and computer.

 

If you do anything less than this...then just resign yourself to permanently being his OW, and accept it as what you truly want out of life.

 

This is SIMPLE...it's not easy...but it is simple.

 

The only way to do this is to rip the bandaid off and make it happen...one fast shot.

 

Otherwise, you'll never be out of this situation until he's caught.

 

Or, you can just tell his wife. I know that many disagree with me, but if it were me, I would want to know. I would want the chance to be part of the decision to stay married to a guy who has sex with OW. He isn't going to tell her, so if you want to really know what his deal is, tell his wife. JMO

[jwi71]

when you cheat on someone so early in your marriage and for so long....that it's not just because your marital sex life sucks. your marital sex life sucking is not a problem.....it is a symptom of a problem between two people. But I guess I can't really make him see that if he doesn't want to , can I.... *sigh*

 

NO. NO. NO.

 

It is a problem of ONE person, that world class ******* you love. How can it possibly be between two people when the W is in the DARK? How is it two people's problem when HE cheats?!?!?!?

 

KG - you simply have this all wrong. Your understanding is fundamentally flawed - you just don't get it.

 

And this is how YOU are stuck. You STILL believe he is a good man who loves you.

 

This A will NOT end until you get a clue. And I don't know how to reach you.

 

You ignore his actions.

You ignore how his words and actions do NOT agree.

You ignore how it affects you.

 

You are obsessed. YOU have defined yourself in terms of him. He occupies your every thought and his absence leaves you w/o oxygen.

 

The saddest part is he doesn't care about YOU. How can you proclaim to care about someone and treat them as he treats you?

 

Oh forget it. I'm so effin' frustrated I could scream.

[KismetGirl]

Yes I remember you saying he's a Brit (as I am) but if you mentioned the visa business I missed it.

 

Kismet please get it into your head he did not believe he loved her enough to marry her - if it wasn't for the visa thing he would not have rushed into it - that was the deciding factor. He thought he would have an easy ride with her - his line about having kids with her because he thought he owed her? Does that not make sense? He knew what he did and his guilt led to them having three kids.

 

I personally don't believe this marriage will last, he may leave in 15 years time - I do not say this to give you hope - but the heart wants what it wants - it's not just kids that bond a marriage, it's the heady, euphoric in love honeymoon period that lays the foundation to a healthy long lasting relationship.

 

Dont worry you arent giving me any false hope.....even if he did leave I know it wouldnt be for years and years, probably not until his kids were much older, and being as the youngest one is like 8 months old he's not going anywhere anytime soon. I think the only false hope I give is to myself in thinking I can somehow make him see his actions for what they really are- namely, those of a man that is not as satisfied with his marriage as he makes himself believe. But I think I'm starting to see that's sort of impossible to make someone see something if they don't want to see it, which I guess is in part why people get frustrated with me when they try to tell me things that I don't seem to want to listen to. But I am a stubborn a** sometimes....somehow still thinking I can make him realize the situation is more complex than he tries to make it seem. But maybe I can't...

[whichwayisup]

Or, you can just tell his wife. I know that many disagree with me, but if it were me, I would want to know. I would want the chance to be part of the decision to stay married to a guy who has sex with OW. He isn't going to tell her, so if you want to really know what his deal is, tell his wife. JMO

 

If KG tells his wife, he will walk out of her life forever. That is a sure way of ending this affair for good. Whether or not his wife kicks him out or forgives him is anyone's guess, but there is NO WAY he is going to run into the arms of KG if she tells his wife. HE HAS TOLD KG he isn't inlove with her and has no intention of leaving his wife and kids. That's the truth of it.

[Owl]

Or, you can just tell his wife. I know that many disagree with me, but if it were me, I would want to know. I would want the chance to be part of the decision to stay married to a guy who has sex with OW. He isn't going to tell her, so if you want to really know what his deal is, tell his wife. JMO

 

I personally agree with this too, and thought about suggesting it.

 

But I just can't see Kismet working up the ******** to call her and do this.

 

I think it would be far better for everyone if she did...but she'd have to come up with some gumption from somewhere that's not evidenced in her posts to do so.

[whichwayisup]

But I think I'm starting to see that's sort of impossible to make someone see something if they don't want to see it

 

Please see that he has told you that he isn't leaving his wife and kids. That is the honest truth of it. That is one thing that hasn't changed..HIS CHOICE in not leaving his family.

[jwi71]

I think the only false hope I give is to myself in thinking I can somehow make him see his actions for what they really are- namely, those of a man that is not as satisfied with his marriage as he makes himself believe.

 

 

YAAAARGHHHH!!!!!

 

Are YOU effin' kidding me?

 

WHAT did he TELL YOU in the very first post in this thread?!?!?!

 

No, really - didn't he TELL YOU THE EXACT OPPOSITE.

 

To YOUR FACE?

 

Oh KG...you really, really need to get away from him.

 

Here's my advice:

 

1) Forget Med School, you'll NEVER make it as you are now. It requires 101% concentration and you aren't capable of doing that now.

2)Get away from him. And the only way to do that is to take an irreversible action that ends it - tell the W.

3) MOVE. Pick a different state and move. 2.5 hours driving is obviously NOT enough distance.

4) Change every piece of contact information you have - email, phone numbers...all of it.

5) Go NC.

 

I just don't know what else to do...you ACT like you want out. You post on here as if you want out...then you post the above.

 

The lies have began to blur reality in your mind KG. You are slowly losing yourself to him - no, you have already LOST yourself to him.

 

RECOVER YOUR LIFE.

[KismetGirl]

NO. NO. NO.

 

It is a problem of ONE person, that world class ******* you love. How can it possibly be between two people when the W is in the DARK? How is it two people's problem when HE cheats?!?!?!?

 

KG - you simply have this all wrong. Your understanding is fundamentally flawed - you just don't get it.

 

And this is how YOU are stuck. You STILL believe he is a good man who loves you.

 

This A will NOT end until you get a clue. And I don't know how to reach you.

 

You ignore his actions.

You ignore how his words and actions do NOT agree.

You ignore how it affects you.

 

You are obsessed. YOU have defined yourself in terms of him. He occupies your every thought and his absence leaves you w/o oxygen.

 

The saddest part is he doesn't care about YOU. How can you proclaim to care about someone and treat them as he treats you?

 

Oh forget it. I'm so effin' frustrated I could scream.

 

Oy vey, calm! I don't want to be responsible for someone's myocardial infarction, calm calm my friend.

 

What I meant by "a problem between two people" is that there is obviously a lack of SOMETHING, passion, intimacy, whatever you want to point at, BETWEEN him and his W. It is perhaps his fault for not better expressing his dissatisfaction with his M to her, but I meant that the problems exist in their marriage. His lack of intimacy is not with himself, right? It's with her. I didn't say it was her FAULT, just that the problem EXISTS between them.

 

I don't really know if he loves me, so you're wrong there. I think he cares in his own way- love is another story. I don't think he's the worst man in the world, nor do I think he's the best. I readily admit he has way too much influence on my level of happiness and that it gets worse as the years go.

 

However slowly, I hope that Im getting to a point where my frustrations outweigh my depression....which is really what holds me back alot of the time. Depression, for anyone out there who hasn't REALLY had it, is mind numbing and paralyzing. I've had depression and GAD, been labeled dysthymic, for years. And when Im in my worst levels, it's like I can't move, Im frozen and stuck in my own head swirling with thoughts.

 

Despite sounding like a total nutter I'm generally quite functional when I have to be (at work and etc) but when I'm home alone I just get.....sad. I'm trying I swear I am, the process is just longer and harder for me than some people, maybe, I don't know.

 

So....don't scream. Be calm. it'll all work out. I think.

[herenow]

I think the only false hope I give is to myself in thinking I can somehow make him see his actions for what they really are- namely, those of a man that is not as satisfied with his marriage as he makes himself believe. But I think I'm starting to see that's sort of impossible to make someone see something if they don't want to see it, which I guess is in part why people get frustrated with me when they try to tell me things that I don't seem to want to listen to. But I am a stubborn a** sometimes....somehow still thinking I can make him realize the situation is more complex than he tries to make it seem. But maybe I can't...

 

Maybe it's not more complex. Maybe he really is being honest with you. I know we all want to believe that things are the way we want them to be, but sometimes they are really just how they appear.

 

You said earlier that he feels safe with you because he knows that you won't tell his wife. That he would be afraid to start with someone knew because of that fear. Doesn't that tell you something?

 

How do you know that he "is not as satisfied with his marriage as he makes himself believe"? Sounds like he is just being honest with you and you just don't want to believe it.

[whichwayisup]

JW, good suggestions as we ALL know this is what she needs to do but she isn't going to do it because she is inlove with him and her 'truths' and 'realities' are much different than what is truly going on here. She has false hopes, false sense of security based on her frame of mind, the affairyland fog. NOTHING is going to change until she wants to stop the affair once and for all..Sadly I just cannot see HOW she can get to that point because she letting fear of the unknown rule what is best for her.

[KismetGirl]

Maybe it's not more complex. Maybe he really is being honest with you. I know we all want to believe that things are the way we want them to be, but sometimes they are really just how they appear.

 

You said earlier that he feels safe with you because he knows that you won't tell his wife. That he would be afraid to start with someone knew because of that fear. Doesn't that tell you something?

 

How do you know that he "is not as satisfied with his marriage as he makes himself believe"? Sounds like he is just being honest with you and you just don't want to believe it.

 

That might be true, too. I guess if I make myself believe the sky is green no matter what anyone else says to me, then for all intensive purposes, to me it is green. Tomato, tomato. Whether he really is happy, or just thinks he is, i guess it doesn't matter. I know he's not leaving her...

[herenow]

What I meant by "a problem between two people" is that there is obviously a lack of SOMETHING, passion, intimacy, whatever you want to point at, BETWEEN him and his W. It is perhaps his fault for not better expressing his dissatisfaction with his M to her, but I meant that the problems exist in their marriage. His lack of intimacy is not with himself, right? It's with her. I didn't say it was her FAULT, just that the problem EXISTS between them.

 

The fact that he is having an affair has nothing to do with his wife, his marriage or you. He is missing something inside himself that he has made the choice to have an affair.

 

Many marriages have problems, but not all of them are solved by one or both spouses cheating. He is unable to deal with his own issues, so he looks for a fix and that fix is you. No different than drugs for an addict or alcohol for an alcoholic. Nothing will ever change until he is able to face his own issues and do the work to fix himself. You are just his enabler. JMO

[whichwayisup]

I know he's not leaving her...

 

And with that said, now you need to decide if you want to continue being the OW, play a role in his life, or walk away. If you're OK settling and being the OW, then stay and accept the rollercoaster ride, being second fiddle in a sense. Put your life on hold, your career, your studies.. Live for him if that is what makes you happy day to day..