subtitled Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Being new to this idea of trying to work out if someone likes you and even initiating a date or whatever, i've been reading posts on here, and so many people have theories on behaviour that will supposedly attract or detract the opposite sex. I'm fascinated by the psychological games we all play, and just thought i'd pose the question - why do these theories exist? Is it a defense mechanism wherein we try to establish power in a relationship to avoid being hurt or destroyed? Have people ever found that when you've met 'the one' these games didn't play out or that you found yourself not choosing to use them? I'm intrigued because most of the time, they seem sort of dishonest, like my friend told me to pretend i forgot that i rang alan and be all like "oh tuesday.. oh that's right. i rang you - oh dont worry about it." which wouldn't be being myself, or being honest, which are two things i absolutely despise in other people. Why do we go to such great lengths to lie and present ourselves in a certain way when probably if we were totally natural and ourselves, we'd only attract appropriate people, avoid all the miscommunication involved in the courting games that evolves into deception hurt later (maybe this doesn't happen, i'm just projecting).. anyway - your thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Being truthful = being vulnerable. Being vulnerable = leaving oneself open to the possibility of pain. Rejection is very painful. So people lie to protect their tender hearts. It is a very hard thing to extend your heart to someone who crushes it or disregards it. Unfortunately, we are not schooled in the care and keeping of others' hearts, particularly of the ones from people whose hearts we might not want to have. It takes a great deal of courage and strength to weather that sort of vulnerability and not a lot of us can manage to muster that courage or strength, particularly those who have already had their hearts crushed more than once. I don't know if you saw my post about frightened men - but a lot of fellows FLEE at top speed at the very thought that a woman might be positively inclined towards them (and I don't mean 'in love with', I just mean 'likes'). That's a function of being terrified that the woman has a ball and chain hidden behind her back and, should he sit still for a few moments, she'll try to lock it on him. I have a very dear friend. There was a woman once who had a major crush on him. Someone mentioned the fact to him. He said 'I think I can accept her love'. It was one of the most amazing and wise things I ever heard anyone say. But people flee from being cared for lest something be expected in return - and so people who care fear revealing their care. And that's the silly way the world works. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 moimeme hit the nail on the head with vulnerability. Have people ever found that when you've met 'the one' these games didn't play out or that you found yourself not choosing to use them? It takes a while to get to know someone and know if you are right for each other. Once people get to know each other I think this 'protective games' tend to fall away naturally. Reminds me of the "oh, this old thing?" reply to a complement about a dress. I've said something similar as a power-play. I didn't want the other person to know how much time or effort I put into something because I didn't want them to have power over me. Or to talk about me behind my back like "gosh, beth must be desperate to go all out for this!" Of course, I was 10 when I last played that game! Well, back to work for me. I'm beginning to hate MS Access! Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Once people get to know each other I think this 'protective games' tend to fall away naturally. Well, there's the thing. I think some people react to hurt by shutting off permanently. They might not be totally closed, but they wall up one bit of their hearts and will never let anybody get near that bit. I have seen married couples like this. I know of one in particular. They have split now, but for sure one, and perhaps both of them obviously had a point past which they were not going to allow the other to get close. We call this 'baggage'. As people experience unsuccsssful relationships, sometimes the 'baggage' is really a permanent scar built over the most vulnerable spots. People in that situation can have relationships of sorts, but that complete exposure of vulnerability that binds a relationship firmly never takes place. And this, to recap other discussions, would be the main reason to not engage in sex until a relationship is sound lest the oxytocin lead you to believe the relationship is 'real' to the point where you expose your most vulnerable self and have it hurt. Too many hurts and some hearts are never really able to give fully again Link to post Share on other sites
Tony T Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 YOU WRITE: "I think some people react to hurt by shutting off permanently." By permanently, do you mean giving up on love forever...or just taking a time out? Do people really mean it when they say they aren't interested in relationships anymore? Do you think that once someone experiences love, even though they are hurt badly, eventually they will heal and want to experience that love again? What would cause somebody just to plain give up totally for a very long period of time if not permanently? Can these people then only be matched with others who have similarly taken on the same attitude...will that work? Link to post Share on other sites
Curt Posted September 29, 2003 Moderators Share Posted September 29, 2003 Don't agree on this point. a lot of fellows FLEE at top speed at the very thought that a woman might be positively inclined towards them (and I don't mean 'in love with', I just mean 'likes'). That's a function of being terrified that the woman has a ball and chain hidden behind her back and, should he sit still for a few moments, she'll try to lock it on him. I feel this is not the case, IF the guy has feelings for her. If he doesn't, sometimes a guy flees to avoid the pain of having to break someone's heart...but, it doesn't generally happen that a guy bails because of a woman's being attractive to him. Curt Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 it doesn't generally happen that a guy bails because of a woman's being attractive to him. I'll believe that! I feel this is not the case, IF the guy has feelings for her I wasn't talking about if it was mutual, Curt. One of my pals just asked a fellow if he was planning to go to a dance. She was merely being friendly. The guy replied that he wasn't interested in dating. I've heard a million stories like this. This is what I mean. (OK, maybe not literally a million but you get my drift). Link to post Share on other sites
Curt Posted September 29, 2003 Moderators Share Posted September 29, 2003 The guy replied that he wasn't interested in dating. I've heard a million stories like this. This is what I mean. (OK, maybe not literally a million but you get my drift). Wassup wit dat? Very Curious!!! LOL Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted September 29, 2003 Share Posted September 29, 2003 YOU WRITE: "I think some people react to hurt by shutting off permanently." By permanently, do you mean giving up on love forever...or just taking a time out? Really, I was referring to allowing oneself to be vulnerable in a relationship. But yes, some do 'give up' on love forever. "Do people really mean it when they say they aren't interested in relationships anymore?" I know a couple of people who've said that and seem to mean it. It tends to be women who have gone through some pretty bad relationships. One can understand how they might be soured, really. "Do you think that once someone experiences love, even though they are hurt badly, eventually they will heal and want to experience that love again?" Some people are more fragile than others. Some can undergo a lot of pain and struggle through but prevail. Others can be crushed. For some, I think, it becomes a matter of self-preservation to erect a wall of defenses behind which they can remain safe. They might allow themselves to love in a fashion, but not in the complete abandon that they experienced earlier. I think there are people, too, who never do allow themselves to be fully open in the first place, for any number of reasons. If you are the sort of person who is willing and able to open yourself fully, it would be a mistake to take up with someone who doesn't. "What would cause somebody just to plain give up totally for a very long period of time if not permanently?" Eventually, we get a sense of our limits and understand how much pain we can take. Eventually, some people decide that the potential for pain is not worth the risk and so cease taking that risk. "Can these people then only be matched with others who have similarly taken on the same attitude...will that work?"It might. It would be a relationship of sorts but it would certainly be lacking. I suppose if that was good enough for both, that would do. It would be a relationship of convenience of sorts, I guess. I think if a person has his/her heart set upon a person who has sworn off love, that person will be shortchanged in the relationship. It isn't likely to be worth it to hang around waiting for the person to heal or change. Feel free to ask anything else you like. M Link to post Share on other sites
Author subtitled Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 Since we're answering these questions with remarkable insight, i thought i'd shoot another one at you. Is it healthy to be attracted to the 'mystery' of someone?.. i'm really sorry if this revives some horrible argument about men and women and their mysteriousness, but i think both genders can be equally as mysterious. Anyway, does being attracted to mystery usually lead to difficult communication later on? The person i'm interested in at the moment, i really only know him on a superficial level at the moment and as i only see him about 3 times a week for about 30seconds each time, i have yet to develop a full understanding of how he functions. However, he is an intriguing character... an english teacher of mine once said people these days talk as if they're permanently in a soap opera, and proceeded to imitate people at my school, and he said we've become the television we watch. The interesting thing about the person im talking about (hell i'll just use his real name.. alan...) is that he doesn't behave like that at all. He is always chatty, but does not put on an 'act'. He comes accross as shy because of this, when i don't think he is actually shy in the traditional sense because he is easy to talk to. His mannerisms are very interesting, he looks away shyly and he has the most fascinating facial expressions - i have no idea how to read them. I usually find people easy enough to interpret, but he just defies interpretation. Despite all of this, somehow amidst all the mystery, i thought maybe we 'clicked' on some level. I'm worried (not very much, perhaps more just interested) that i might be attracted to his enigmatic behaviour..but maybe this isn't a bad thing. I keep thinking how much i'd love to get to know him better and delve into the real alan get past the 'shy' guy and mm. would be really nice. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 I can't speak for anyone but myself and personally, I think all this stuff about 'mystery' is just tiresome. It feels so wonderful to be fully revealed to someone that I can't imagine why anyone would trade that in for this pseudo 'mystery' foolishness. I guess if you jones on curiosity about someone, then mystery will be your aphrodisiac, but the only thing I like about being curious is finding answers. I don't know; maybe people feel they can sustain attention if they have some sort of puzzle to solve. The comfort of a known quantity may not be appealing to some. Link to post Share on other sites
Author subtitled Posted September 30, 2003 Author Share Posted September 30, 2003 i guess for me it is just what you said - the anticipation of getting to know the person. I love the idea of unwrapping someone layer by layer, a gradual understanding. The thought of getting to intimately know someone is very appealing, and initial mystery i think would make it all the more rewarding. Like if they were sort of reserved, and then opened up - it would be really special... That's all i meant. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted September 30, 2003 Share Posted September 30, 2003 Interesting. I really enjoy the additional allure that anticipation adds (and didn't really plan to alliterate) in pretty much everything except getting to know someone. As I said, that's just me. It'll be interesting to see what other folks say about this. Link to post Share on other sites
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