5 and a half years on - now together

[desertmoon]

My child(nor anyone else's) sould be placed in a position where it is hoped they will heal in the name of someone's definition of true love. I don't know that Sarah or Isaac knew what Abraham was going to do. I would have to research that. But what he did was because God told him to. I doubt very seriously that God told someone married to have an affair( you know that commandment on adultery)or that he told someone to fall for and have sex with a married person. (Heb. 13:2)

 

Not the point. The point is, whether it is for an illicit love (or whatever emotion it is), or for some noble cause---adults have made decisions( moving the kids to another country with a totally different language/culture, for example) that have cause "trauma" to their children, our responsibility, as adults( who made the right or wrong decision) is to move forward and make the environment, a healing environment ( to the best of our ability) for the children.

 

The love that Abraham had for God, to me, can't be compared to what we mere humans call true love or soul mate stuff.

Abraham was a mere human being.

[NoIDidn't]

 

Abraham was a mere human being.

 

Not sure I understand this statement.

 

Is it to say that Abraham was only human? That seems redundant as we already know that. I believe Bent's point was about the love and trust that Abraham had for God that he was willing to be obedient to GOD even if it meant sacrificing his own son.

 

What that has to do with an affair is lost on me, though. One should never sacrifice their children or their children's well-being for any reason in my book. But I still don't see a tie in with adultery. Can anyone help as I am late this part of the thread?

[bentnotbroken]

Not the point. The point is, whether it is for an illicit love (or whatever emotion it is), or for some noble cause---adults have made decisions( moving the kids to another country with a totally different language/culture, for example) that have cause "trauma" to their children, our responsibility, as adults( who made the right or wrong decision) is to move forward and make the environment, a healing environment ( to the best of our ability) for the children.

 

Abraham was a mere human being.

 

 

Who did exactly what God asked, even to the detriment of his son. Something that we selfish people couldn't even conceive. For me equating moving with watching a parent lie and deceive the other is as they say apple and oranges, not the same. It is kind of hard to have a healing environment with the A partner involved with the kids. Or the parents forgetting the have children because the genitalia is in control. I am in that situation now. Mr. Messy has ruined his relationship with his children, his flesh and blood, for what? Has he grown a backbone, ballz or both he wouldn't be begging for them to talk with him.

[bentnotbroken]

Not sure I understand this statement.

 

Is it to say that Abraham was only human? That seems redundant as we already know that. I believe Bent's point was about the love and trust that Abraham had for God that he was willing to be obedient to GOD even if it meant sacrificing his own son.

 

What that has to do with an affair is lost on me, though. One should never sacrifice their children or their children's well-being for any reason in my book. But I still don't see a tie in with adultery. Can anyone help as I am late this part of the thread?

 

 

I didn't get it either. It is like quoting one part of the bible for justificationa and ignoring another part to twist and turn.

[NoIDidn't]

Who did exactly what God asked, even to the detriment of his son. Something that we selfish people couldn't even conceive. For me equating moving with watching a parent lie and deceive the other is as they say apple and oranges, not the same. It is kind of hard to have a healing environment with the A partner involved with the kids. Or the parents forgetting the have children because the genitalia is in control. I am in that situation now. Mr. Messy has ruined his relationship with his children, his flesh and blood, for what? Has he grown a backbone, ballz or both he wouldn't be begging for them to talk with him.

 

I agree. Moving to another country for financial gain and hopefully more opportunities for one's family CAN NOT be compared with willfully putting one's family AT RISK through the foolishness and selfishness that is an affair.

[bentnotbroken]

Who did exactly what God asked, even to the detriment of his son. Something that we selfish people couldn't even conceive. For me equating moving with watching a parent lie and deceive the other is as they say apple and oranges, not the same. It is kind of hard to have a healing environment with the A partner involved with the kids. Or the parents forgetting the have children because the genitalia is in control. I am in that situation now. Mr. Messy has ruined his relationship with his children, his flesh and blood, for what? Has he grown a backbone, ballz or both he wouldn't be begging for them to talk with him.

 

 

Boy did I lose my train of thought or what:o. I meant that parents who forget that they have children because the southern regions are in control.

[desertmoon]

"soulmate"

..ugh (cringe!). What is a soulmate?????

 

 

(desert, you sound confident but you can always learn a thing or two from me !) I dont think it quite works that way...may be for some. In reality No. It would taken me a little less than a day for me to expose him and my wife to the whole world ! My wife may have done from stupid things but she would not have left me just like that given that we both love our son dearly...among other things.

I AM learning from you! Ahem...you must re-visit your posts and read what you wrote about your wife...my point was, your wife was not an uncaring individual like how you made her out to be. She must've cared enough about people to not just up and leave~!

 

So, like it or not,there are some good things coming out of this.

are you saying it was a "blessing in disguise"?...ok...sorry, I just had to put it there....

 

I see both you and bent are religious. That is great. I respect that. I wish I was religious. I am fighting this all alone (I feel that way all the time) and I cant even pray. But then I feel that is unfair. Even if I were religious why do people look up to the Almighty in times of desparate need ?. Does not seem fair to me.

LOL!!!! I am not religious at all! I am not even a Christian. My parents have a kamidama (shinto shrine/altar) with portraits of our dearly departed loved ones to which we offer incense, etc, that's the extent of my "religiosity". I did attend private schools ran by evil nuns, though.

[NoIDidn't]

I didn't get it either. It is like quoting one part of the bible for justificationa and ignoring another part to twist and turn.

 

Yeah, I think people in the middle of breaking commandments have a lot of nerve in trying to quote the Bible to others. That whole "don't judge" thing is just cover for "I don't want to hear the truth of my actions".

 

Have you ever noticed that most instances of adultery mentioned in the Bible went unpunished in the recommended way (stoning)? But the people involved did get a stern "talking to".

 

I have a lot more respect for people that say that they know they are doing wrong, but that they are going to do it anyway until they make a decision to stop. I won't let them watch my kids or balance my checkbook, but at least they aren't lying about it.

[desertmoon]

And isn't that the point of the OP? With love, all things are possible...even healing.

 

 

Ahmmm...I think her point was that true love prevails...no matter the time, or distance...etc..etc..

[desertmoon]

Who did exactly what God asked, even to the detriment of his son. Something that we selfish people couldn't even conceive. For me equating moving with watching a parent lie and deceive the other is as they say apple and oranges, not the same. It is kind of hard to have a healing environment with the A partner involved with the kids. Or the parents forgetting the have children because the genitalia is in control. I am in that situation now. Mr. Messy has ruined his relationship with his children, his flesh and blood, for what? Has he grown a backbone, ballz or both he wouldn't be begging for them to talk with him.

 

Wait a minute.... TRAUMA is TRAUMA.....remember YOU have made the statement that there are no gray areas....only black and white...What does it matter then that if a child is traumatized by one act of an adult and not by the another? it Is still TRAUMA.

[Bleeve]

I am pretty sure no one on this board has ever NOT cause pain or hurt to anybody at some point in their life for choices made that were self-serving. So you can argue about--"well it's a different kind of hurt or pain or the cause was entirely different". Pain is pain. Hurt is hurt--as some people here on the board say ( and I am JUST following THEIR LOGIC here:rolleyes:)....there are no GRAY areas..only BLACK and WHITE...so unless you can honestly say you haven't hurt anyone or cause pain to anyone ever in your life....you, my dear, are no better than the OW/OM/WS.

 

But keep praying for "devastating pain" to all OW/OM/WS...I am sure your God will hear your pleas.

 

Have I done anything knowing that my child would be hurt by my actions - absolutely not, now would I

 

Umm, I never mentioned prayer once in my post. I don't wish devasting pain on anyone. But people that justify knowingly hurting others and say it is is in the name of "love" make me sick.

If it is indeed true love, then wouldn't it wait until both people involved are not in another relationship?

[NoIDidn't]

Wait a minute.... TRAUMA is TRAUMA.....remember YOU have made the statement that there are no gray areas....only black and white...What does it matter then that if a child is traumatized by one act of an adult and not by the another? it Is still TRAUMA.

 

Nope. Not buying it. Trauma is trauma but there is nothing grey about moving versus cheating.

 

Just because an issue is possibly going to make a child uncomfortable, but there is nothing wrong with it - doesn't make it "grey".

 

We'd all live at Disney World if we let children only do what was comfortable instead of making tough choices that we hope will one day benefit them. No one EVER has an affair hoping it will someday benefit their children. And the amount of cheaters that won't leave because of the children bear this out. They know it wouldn't benefit their kids to find out they were cheating on their other parent.

[desertmoon]

Who did exactly what God asked, even to the detriment of his son.

hmmm.. enough said!

 

 

I didn't get it either. It is like quoting one part of the bible for justificationa and ignoring another part to twist and turn.

 

Yes, you did. That is why you responded. Anyhow, I did not post it to "justify" anything--no need for justification...I was simply trying to bring the point to you (since it is obvious you are religious and knows God very well) by using an example from the Bible.

[NoIDidn't]

[/b] Yes, you did. That is why you responded. Anyhow, I did not post it to "justify" anything--no need for justification...I was simply trying to bring the point to you (since it is obvious you are religious and knows God very well) by using an example from the Bible.

 

I still don't see where you are going with this because the example that you are using doesn't apply. In fact, what Abraham did could be considered beneficial to his son in solidifying his faith and trust that God will always provide in the face of unflinching obedience.

 

The Bible story that you chose is a story of trust and obedience. Even Issac had to trust that his father wasn't going to kill him.

 

Do you know any children that trust that their parents are cheating on their family unit to their benefit? Most children know that cheating undermines their family. So using this story is a stretch.

[bentnotbroken]

Wait a minute.... TRAUMA is TRAUMA.....remember YOU have made the statement that there are no gray areas....only black and white...What does it matter then that if a child is traumatized by one act of an adult and not by the another? it Is still TRAUMA.

 

 

Yes, trauma is trauma. There are things that are easier to deal with and understand. It is hard for a child(I do mean older children, say 8 and up)understand, deal with and come to some type of reasonable understanding about a parent disrespecting another. Be it physical abuse, mental abuse(which I consider affairs) or just the lying. It is a perpetuating cycle for many who can't break the the chain. Moving doesn't tend to have that same type of generational effect, do you? Yes, I will say with my dying breath, there is no gray unless you someone chooses to mix them up.

 

You seem to think that adultery constitutes one act, in my experience it usually means more than one. The many d-days, the hundreds of lies, and promises to not do it again. Only to start once a BS has been lulled into a false sense of security. Moving always provided trauma for my children. Once I set up there rooms and got out the favorite toys and mom and dad reassured them that this new home is good for our family, after a week or two things settled into a new routine. But their has been one thing that Mr. Messy and I did agree on, moving(since you like the analogy) was something that wouldn't happen once the kids were in school. We did move one time, but we made sure it was in the same school district and not too far from friends and support systems they had developed. That was us being unselfish in putting their needs first.

 

But when he decided to bring the ow into their lives, into their home and indeed into their beds, it only showed concern for himself. They didn't and still don't understand how he could do that. If you have a clue, please share it so I can pass it on.

[desertmoon]

Have I done anything knowing that my child would be hurt by my actions - absolutely not, now would I

 

Well. would you? How would I know? I do not know you.

 

Umm, I never mentioned prayer once in my post. I don't wish devasting pain on anyone. But people that justify knowingly hurting others and say it is is in the name of "love" make me sick.

 

 

Oh ok, so don't pray. You do not wish them devastating pain, you just know they will get their share...ok, understood.

 

If it is indeed true love, then wouldn't it wait until both people involved are not in another relationship?

Yes, ideally. If we were perfect beings, living in a perfect world.

[NoIDidn't]

You seem to think that adultery constitutes one act, in my experience it usually means more than one. The many d-days, the hundreds of lies, and promises to not do it again.

 

Yep.

 

Researchers have identified many steps (actions) that lead to it. The thoughts and decisions that have to be made. The compromises made. I think it was about nine things that the two involved in the adultery have to do before they ever make it to sex. And that by step four, its already emotional adultery anyway.

 

So definitely more than one *act* going on here.

[White Flower]

Ahmmm...I think her point was that true love prevails...no matter the time, or distance...etc..etc..

...and obstacles...so we agree.

[65tr6]

..ugh (cringe!). What is a soulmate?????.

 

I am not sure. Something i picked from LS and the books I read. I guess your true love ? (sorry could not resist)

 

..

.you must re-visit your posts and read what you wrote about your wife...my point was, your wife was not an uncaring individual like how you made her out to be. She must've cared enough about people to not just up and leave~!

 

Really ? She is one of the most beautiful women (yes one of the) I have ever met..She is very caring, very patient, very smart.....She also stunned me with her ugly side that I had no f* clue. I dont think I ever bad-mouthed her in any of my posts. I said she was ignorant, stupid, immature....but not a bad person by any means. She also saw what a decent individual I am post dday.

 

..

are you saying it was a "blessing in disguise"?...ok...sorry, I just had to put it there....

kinda...yes...The affair was a wake call like i said. The eternal optimist that I am, I always see the good that can come out of worst possible events in your life. Call me a nut-case but that is me. That does not mean I am not bitter. Not towards my wife. Towards that OM...pos.

 

.. . I did attend private schools ran by evil nuns, though.

i rather not comment. that is funny though. actually i am on the floor lmao.

[desertmoon]

Yes, trauma is trauma..... Moving doesn't tend to have that same type of generational effect, do you? Yes, I will say with my dying breath, there is no gray unless you someone chooses to mix them up.

 

Oh? and you know that for sure because....? tell that to that little girl who grew up bitter and hated her parents because she got uprooted, "yanked" (her words not mine) from the people and school she loved to move to some "%^&&*" town---she ran away, she did drugs, got pregnant, ended up in the ER, had the baby and did not have any feelings for her baby....what do you think will happen to THAT baby?

 

You seem to think that adultery constitutes one act, in my experience it usually means more than one.

 

One act? there's a relationship there---of course, it is a series of choices/decisions...

 

But when he decided to bring the ow into their lives, into their home and indeed into their beds, it only showed concern for himself. They didn't and still don't understand how he could do that. If you have a clue, please share it so I can pass it on.

 

I understand what you are saying and I am saying, after the choices he has made and the damage that followed suit, it is his responsibility to bring healing to his children--I do not know what it would take. And it is YOUR responsibility for the sake of your kids to allow him to make that possible--and indeed maybe you already are and maybe he is just really irresponsible and continues to be selfish.

[65tr6]

And you are never alone. God is with you even if you don't know or want him with you.

bent, i know you are being nice. But this is my fight. I know I am all alone. I can draw strength from others but when all said and done, it is me against everyone else. That is how I see it today. It hurts like hell to be fighting alone. It is even more painful knowing that I cant let my dear and near know what I am going through. I put a false facade in front of them. When I talk to them. I dont like it. Unfortunately that is the path I choose. Last four months have been excruciatingly painful. Sometimes I think it is getting better only to be dragged down for the next several days. There is no question my life has changed forever.

 

I cannot afford to let my friends and family down (yep that is me...thinking about others all the time). There are way too many people who look up to me as their hero. This includes my adorable son. I have to lead my normal life and at the same time recover my marriage. Not an easy task by any means.

[bentnotbroken]

Oh? and you know that for sure because....? tell that to that little girl who grew up bitter and hated her parents because she got uprooted, "yanked" (her words not mine) from the people and school she loved to move to some "%^&&*" town---she ran away, she did drugs, got pregnant, ended up in the ER, had the baby and did not have any feelings for her baby....what do you think will happen to THAT baby?

 

 

 

One act? there's a relationship there---of course, it is a series of choices/decisions...

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying and I am saying, after the choices he has made and the damage that followed suit, it is his responsibility to bring healing to his children--I do not know what it would take. And it is YOUR responsibility for the sake of your kids to allow him to make that possible--and indeed maybe you already are and maybe he is just really irresponsible and continues to be selfish.

 

 

If I had the answer to the worlds ills I would fix them in a heartbeat. I have seen many young girls angry for one reason or another. Some because no one did step in and move them away from their circumstances. We can argue different scenarios until the Lions win a game, but it won't change either of our minds. Your life experiences have shaped your opinions and my life experiences have shaped mine. The people that I have seen in my line of work, the children that I deal with now and my personal experience all have lead me to the conclusion's I have come to.

 

Mr. Messy made is decisions and it is up to him to try to correct them. He didn't consult me before he hurt his children, he need not expect me to cover for him while he tries to win their respect back. I have explained that he is their father and on that fact alone they should treat him civilly if not kindly. My children are older, thank God. I don't have to try to shield little ones from the things that their father has done. As a matter of fact, they tried to shield me because they found out first. They are great kids in spite of who their parents are.

[desertmoon]

.... I said she was ignorant, stupid, immature....but not a bad person by any means. She also saw what a decent individual I am post dday.

 

well...you said she had "complete disregard of, etc.etc."(let's not go into that again)...and calling your wife ignorant, stupid and immature in my world is "bad-mouthing" her...but you know what? I believe you-I think you ARE a decent individual!

 

The affair was a wake call like i said. The eternal optimist that I am, I always see the good that can come out of worst possible events in your life. Call me a nut-case but that is me. That does not mean I am not bitter. Not towards my wife. Towards that OM...pos.

 

That is why I think your marriage has a big chance of recovering because you are an optimist. You are allowed to be bitter...but not for long though, because bitterness is toxic...

 

[quotei rather not comment. that is funny though. actually i am on the floor lmao.

 

oooohhhh now, you 're going to make me wonder what your comment was going to be!!!!! sheesh!

[desertmoon]

Mr. Messy made is decisions and it is up to him to try to correct them. He didn't consult me before he hurt his children, he need not expect me to cover for him while he tries to win their respect back. I have explained that he is their father and on that fact alone they should treat him civilly if not kindly. My children are older, thank God. I don't have to try to shield little ones from the things that their father has done. As a matter of fact, they tried to shield me because they found out first. They are great kids in spite of who their parents are.

 

Then...if it can't be fixed, then what can anyone really do? If people are determined to remain bitter and angry and unforgiving....it IS their choice/decision-they have to be responsible for that choice. I just hope that time does not run out on them...and if it does...they will have to live with, yet again, that choice....

[bentnotbroken]

Then...if it can't be fixed, then what can anyone really do? If people are determined to remain bitter and angry and unforgiving....it IS their choice/decision-they have to be responsible for that choice. I just hope that time does not run out on them...and if it does...they will have to live with, yet again, that choice....

 

 

What does lack of respect have to do with bitterness? :confused:And they aren't angry any longer, they just don't want to be around him. As you said it is their choice.