5 and a half years on - now together

[65tr6]

I believe that statement is one of the cracks in the marriage

...Let me clarify...As a man, I think about other woman...often...I am tempted. I always wondered what my life would would have been if I had married someone else. And it stops right there. I dont believe there is always only one person out there for you BUT once you are comitted, you have just that one person and you better make the best out of it.

 

To be honest, I never realized how much I loved my wife until the d-day. I told her/ the marriage for granted. Like most others. She saw the cracks or rather interpreted the cracks as crevices and decided to check out.

[65tr6]

I don't know how much comfort most BS would find in the notion that the hurt wasn't intentional but just a byproduct of selfishness...

 

Mr. Lucky

not much. I would rather hear my WS say to me that she cheated out of stupidity, ignorance, immaturity. Selfishness means, to an extent, that they may have still cared about their spouse/family and they knew what they were doing. I dont think most WS realise the damage their actions could cause.

[Mino]

Mr Lucky

Like many others you are missing my point made in my original post....

 

TRUE LOVE WILL FIND A WAY!!!

 

I realise that ,that my statement is incredibly irritating to the vast majoirty of people who find their way to this site...

 

But it is forever true that...

 

 

I it is true love it will find a way ... and it will endure!

 

If it is not true love...... then it will not!

I agree with you,

[Bleeve]

I've re-written this post so many times!!!

 

But all I want to say is....

 

If Love between two people is real.... it will make itself be real... everyday of your life.

 

It will hurt, it will cause the most devastating pain to all involved....

 

lets see, causing devastating pain to all involved, yep sounds like Love to me I am probably safe to assume that that pain was felt by innocent children or spouses

 

I believe you have described selfishness, no love --good for you and when he does the same to you that he did to his wife that he swore he loved so much at one point that he married her, then you will know devasting pain like no other - good luck with that

[KismetGirl]

I came back to read and read this one again. I would just like to thank you. You made my day. I am too old to be called naive and too unique to be called generic, but you brought a smile to my face.

 

Naivete knows no age=bounds, unfortunately. It is very easy to be 65 and still be naive about certain things. And everyone is unique in their own way. And everyone is generic in their own way.

 

And true love often hurts several people before finding its way. The hurt usually subsides after some time. The true love prevails, if it's real. People learn to adjust. Not everything works out cleanly in real life the way you'd hope.

 

My step=father's parents (Bob and Jane) starting seeing each other while both married to other people. Both had children in their first marriages. I'm sure plenty of people were hurt and dissapointed by their affair, in the beginning. In fact, Jane became pregnant with my step-father while she was having the affair with Bob and was still married to her first husband and Bob was still married to his first wife. Her husband at the time thought it was his kid for years.

 

50 years later, Bob still looked at Jane as if she was the most beautiful person he'd ever known. You could see it in his face the way they looked at each other, they way they talked and held hands even so many years later. He felt that way until the day he died at the age of 84. I'd bet every cent I have that theirs was as true a love as any I'd ever seen. Passionate until the day he died. And yep, they pi*sed off plenty of people when they eventually divorced their first spouses 40-50 years ago to be with each other. But I hope one day I find someone that loves me as much as Bob loved Jane (names changed to protect the innocent....or not, as some people would imagine it ;-) ). They didn't go about it the proper way at first, perhaps, but those children in their first marriages that might have initially been upset about....you wanna know something? They grew up. They have their own lives. They got over it. They weren't living with Bob, their father, as he died of cancer. Jane was the one sitting at his bedside with him.

 

My parents divorced. It sucked when it happened. I was hurt at the time. My dad cheated on my mom. My mom cheated on my dad when she found out he'd done it twice. GUESS WHAT??? I'm alive, I love them both, and I'm thrilled that they are both re-married to people that make them happy. I'm successful, Im intelligent, I have friends. Im not perfect and I f**k up and make bad decisions, but so does everyone. And, they BOTH got married to their respective OW and OM. I'm a grown woman now. Im not selfish. I want my parents to be happy, whether they are with each other or someone else. And, if my mother hadn't left my father, I never would have my little brother and sister, who she had with her second husbvand, and I love those kids more than anything in the world. Everything happens for a reason....I think people on this board tend to forget that. I'm not saying that to justify cheating of course. I think if you don't want to be married to someone you should get a divorce, but that's just me. Some people perhaps can't get to that conclusion as easily as others. Everything, again, happens for a reason.

 

Do I hope that I find someone the "normal" way? Sure I do. I wouldn't want to find my soul mate in an affair. But it happens sometimes. It doesn't negate the validity of those feelings.

[desertmoon]

lets see, causing devastating pain to all involved, yep sounds like Love to me I am probably safe to assume that that pain was felt by innocent children or spouses

 

I believe you have described selfishness, no love --good for you and when he does the same to you that he did to his wife that he swore he loved so much at one point that he married her, then you will know devasting pain like no other - good luck with that

 

I am pretty sure no one on this board has ever NOT cause pain or hurt to anybody at some point in their life for choices made that were self-serving. So you can argue about--"well it's a different kind of hurt or pain or the cause was entirely different". Pain is pain. Hurt is hurt--as some people here on the board say ( and I am JUST following THEIR LOGIC here:rolleyes:)....there are no GRAY areas..only BLACK and WHITE...so unless you can honestly say you haven't hurt anyone or cause pain to anyone ever in your life....you, my dear, are no better than the OW/OM/WS.

 

But keep praying for "devastating pain" to all OW/OM/WS...I am sure your God will hear your pleas.

[65tr6]

KG, if everyone starts doing it that way...seeking for love....thinking about themselves and hurting/destroying people and everything else in their way, where does that end ? If you call that true love, I dont know if I agree with that. Then all of us can find true love that way. Everything happens for a reason...to an extent. That does not mean you accept it without slicing/dicing it.

 

I understand you turned out to be intelligent, smart and you have friends. But that is you. You overcame all the obstacles. Credit should go to you.

 

Once you are in a relationship, it is always easy to find faults with it and find another one that you think is a viable one. The challenge is how can you make the one that you are in work ?

 

Too may people wont even try....think they should have never have been together in the first place.

[bentnotbroken]

Naivete knows no age=bounds, unfortunately. It is very easy to be 65 and still be naive about certain things. And everyone is unique in their own way. And everyone is generic in their own way.

 

And true love often hurts several people before finding its way. The hurt usually subsides after some time. The true love prevails, if it's real. People learn to adjust. Not everything works out cleanly in real life the way you'd hope.

 

My step=father's parents (Bob and Jane) starting seeing each other while both married to other people. Both had children in their first marriages. I'm sure plenty of people were hurt and dissapointed by their affair, in the beginning. In fact, Jane became pregnant with my step-father while she was having the affair with Bob and was still married to her first husband and Bob was still married to his first wife. Her husband at the time thought it was his kid for years.

 

50 years later, Bob still looked at Jane as if she was the most beautiful person he'd ever known. You could see it in his face the way they looked at each other, they way they talked and held hands even so many years later. He felt that way until the day he died at the age of 84. I'd bet every cent I have that theirs was as true a love as any I'd ever seen. Passionate until the day he died. And yep, they pi*sed off plenty of people when they eventually divorced their first spouses 40-50 years ago to be with each other. But I hope one day I find someone that loves me as much as Bob loved Jane (names changed to protect the innocent....or not, as some people would imagine it ;-) ). They didn't go about it the proper way at first, perhaps, but those children in their first marriages that might have initially been upset about....you wanna know something? They grew up. They have their own lives. They got over it. They weren't living with Bob, their father, as he died of cancer. Jane was the one sitting at his bedside with him.

 

My parents divorced. It sucked when it happened. I was hurt at the time. My dad cheated on my mom. My mom cheated on my dad when she found out he'd done it twice. GUESS WHAT??? I'm alive, I love them both, and I'm thrilled that they are both re-married to people that make them happy. I'm successful, Im intelligent, I have friends. Im not perfect and I f**k up and make bad decisions, but so does everyone. And, they BOTH got married to their respective OW and OM. I'm a grown woman now. Im not selfish. I want my parents to be happy, whether they are with each other or someone else. And, if my mother hadn't left my father, I never would have my little brother and sister, who she had with her second husbvand, and I love those kids more than anything in the world. Everything happens for a reason....I think people on this board tend to forget that. I'm not saying that to justify cheating of course. I think if you don't want to be married to someone you should get a divorce, but that's just me. Some people perhaps can't get to that conclusion as easily as others. Everything, again, happens for a reason.

 

Do I hope that I find someone the "normal" way? Sure I do. I wouldn't want to find my soul mate in an affair. But it happens sometimes. It doesn't negate the validity of those feelings.

 

 

 

Kis, I don't discount your story, but you are living proof that if love was so true, you wouldn't be in the pain you are enduring. God never intended for love to hurt or to hurt others. That isn't his way and I stand firm on that statement. There is nothing naive about not wanting people to hurt so 2 people can call themselves soul mates. If they truly understood the meaning of what soul means, they would be appalled. A great test of how if you think true love finds a way. Do you want your child going trough the trauma & drama that this so called true love causes. Whether they are being in a marriage being pulled apart because somebody is trying to be with there true love and have their cake too. Or if the are one of the participants in running around try to make that true love work for years before they decide to do the right thing.

[desertmoon]

KG, if everyone starts doing it that way...seeking for love....thinking about themselves and hurting/destroying people and everything else in their way, where does that end ? If you call that true love, I dont know if I agree with that. Then all of us can find true love that way. Everything happens for a reason...to an extent. That does not mean you accept it without slicing/dicing it.

 

Not everyone will ever start doing it that way--so the premise is already false. In reality very few people (if at all) SEEK out to fall in love AND hurt/destroy other people. There are difficult decisions/choices made, in the end one has to be true to one's self- ask and answer the question what can you live with? Unfortunately (in this instance), as social beings the choices we make affect other people, albeit, in different degrees.

 

I understand you turned out to be intelligent, smart and you have friends. But that is you. You overcame all the obstacles. Credit should go to you.

 

No reason why others shouldn't. Again, reality is, some don't ever get over it and the children suffer. I think children heal better if the divorcing parents get over the bitterness and hurt---staying in the "I am a victim" mode is also self-serving, selfish and shortsighted.

 

Once you are in a relationship, it is always easy to find faults with it and find another one that you think is a viable one.

 

True. That is why, taking each other for granted and the marriage, is a recipe for disaster. YET, even if you put your whole emotional being into the relationship--there is no guarantee that your partner won't change. People change, emotions change. If a marriage is based ONLY on love...well...it is based on something very volatile.

 

The challenge is how can you make the one that you are in work ?

 

Your relationship has to be based on something more solid, pragmatic and make sure you are relevant to each other's life---in addition to the "true love" component.

[65tr6]

Not everyone will ever start doing it that way--so the premise is already false. ..

 

nice try desert....i said what if....

 

In reality very few people (if at all) SEEK out to fall in love AND hurt/destroy other people. ..

oh yeah ? Let's review the statistics again...Over 50% of the marriages end in divorce and 80% of those due to f* infidelity....And we all know by now how much infidelity hurts. I rest my case.

 

 

No reason why others shouldn't. Again, reality is, some don't ever get over it and the children suffer. I think children heal better if the divorcing parents get over the bitterness and hurt---staying in the "I am a victim" mode is also self-serving, selfish and shortsighted. ..

 

In reality, most, if not all, divorces leave behind plenty of resentment, bitterness. I dont think there is anything such as amicable divorce if kids are involved. I just cannot imagine sharing custody...just does not seem right to me.

 

I have spoken with so many aquintances who are divorced and almost all their stories are horrific. How they lost their homes, their job, how much hatred they have towards their ex....Unbelievable that you could hate someone so much that once was your love. If you could do that once, what is the guarantee that you wont do that again ? Where are your f* scruples ?

 

 

 

True. That is why, taking each other for granted and the marriage, is a recipe for disaster. YET, even if you put your whole emotional being into the relationship--there is no guarantee that your partner won't change. People change, emotions change. If a marriage is based ONLY on love...well...it is based on something very volatile...

 

beautifully said. I am learning this now. That dont take things for granted. Esp marriage. So is my wife I hope. People change, relationships change even more. Marriage is not based on LOVE alone. I agree with you completely on that. People need to be realistic and I think most in my opinion are not. They expect the moon and do what they think is right...and in the process leave bodies behind.

[Mino]

Not everyone will ever start doing it that way--so the premise is already false. In reality very few people (if at all) SEEK out to fall in love AND hurt/destroy other people. There are difficult decisions/choices made, in the end one has to be true to one's self- ask and answer the question what can you live with? Unfortunately (in this instance), as social beings the choices we make affect other people, albeit, in different degrees.

 

 

 

No reason why others shouldn't. Again, reality is, some don't ever get over it and the children suffer. I think children heal better if the divorcing parents get over the bitterness and hurt---staying in the "I am a victim" mode is also self-serving, selfish and shortsighted.

 

 

 

True. That is why, taking each other for granted and the marriage, is a recipe for disaster. YET, even if you put your whole emotional being into the relationship--there is no guarantee that your partner won't change. People change, emotions change. If a marriage is based ONLY on love...well...it is based on something very volatile.

 

 

 

Your relationship has to be based on something more solid, pragmatic and make sure you are relevant to each other's life---in addition to the "true love" component.

great post, DM, especially about being TRUE to oneself. One cannnot stay in a m just because society says its where you should be, because you may hurt others...People do fall out of love when the Marriage was not "nurtured" by BOTH Spouses. Marriage should not be a death sentence. How about a 5 year plan? LOL Wonder how much effort would would be given if you knew your expiration date was around the corner. People take the other for granted because they assume the Marriage certificate is enough, Jmho

[desertmoon]

nice try desert....i said what if....

 

I know you said "what if"....it's irrelevant...because it is unrealistic.

 

oh yeah ? Let's review the statistics again...Over 50% of the marriages end in divorce and 80% of those due to f* infidelity....And we all know by now how much infidelity hurts. I rest my case.

80% may be cause by infidelity but how many were cause by "Infidelity +true love"? We all know, that many of the people here have posted that statistic shows (accdg. to them) most affairs end because one partner is a selfish, narcissistic person, incapable of loving. Besides, how many of those people ACTUALLY SOUGHT out the married person? that was your contention, right?---that people purposely SOUGHT out love AND destroy anything/anyone in their way. I don't know, but I think most people seek love, hoping to fall in love and the feeling reciprocated and they live happily ever after.Nobody allows himself/herself to fall in love AND destroy another---that's a ridiculous notion.

 

In reality, most, if not all, divorces leave behind plenty of resentment, bitterness.

True, of course. But just like we require those selfish, self-serving people who fall in love with married people to go away and lick their wounds somewhere---in the name of unselfishness ( think of the married couple's children!). Do you not think that divorcing couple or betrayed spouses have that responsibility to get over it for the sake of the loved ones and heck, for yourselves?

 

I dont think there is anything such as amicable divorce if kids are involved. I just cannot imagine sharing custody...just does not seem right to me.

Then those kids will bear a deeper scar....sorry....

 

I have spoken with so many aquintances who are divorced and almost all their stories are horrific. How they lost their homes, their job, how much hatred they have towards their ex....Unbelievable that you could hate someone so much that once was your love. If you could do that once, what is the guarantee that you wont do that again ?

 

Their are no guarantees in life, haven't you learned that? All you can do is to live it as best as you can--hopefully,being true to oneself and to others.

 

Where are your f* scruples ?

I know you didn't just use a cuss word on me! :eek:

[bentnotbroken]

great post, DM, especially about being TRUE to oneself. One cannnot stay in a m just because society says its where you should be, because you may hurt others...People do fall out of love when the Marriage was not "nurtured" by BOTH Spouses. Marriage should not be a death sentence. How about a 5 year plan? LOL Wonder how much effort would would be given if you knew your expiration date was around the corner. People take the other for granted because they assume the Marriage certificate is enough, Jmho

 

 

 

I don't think anyone believes you should stay in a bad marriage. But no matter how it is justified tries to make it, there is always a mature way, an adult way, a right way that you can do things to minimize those tough choices. There is a way to not emotionally abuse a spouse or the other family members. There is a way not to disrespect the person you did marry. There is a way not to disrespect the union of marriage(because like it or not)there are a lot of people who take that union seriously and believe the words they say. It doesn't mean that the spouses are perfect or that they don't do azz-a-nine things. It means that there is a standard that they have set for themselves, and the expectation is that the person they married had those same standards.

 

There is absolutely no reason why a person who says they are mature can't act like they are, unless it is wishful thinking on their part that they are actually mature.

 

Love has been studied by scientist for decades, the one thing they all say is passionate love isn't a constant state. Life takes over. Some times companionate love takes over. This is the love of a committed relationship. This happens during the diapers, during the carpool, during sadness, during death, during the fights, during the stages of "I can't stand you". It continues in the face of temptation, desperation and critical evaluation. This is real love. This is the love that will be there if one spouse is sick, if one spouse loses themselves, if one spouse is unsure of the love. This happens when the gaps are wide and it is hard to see the face of the person you feel in love with.

 

We all want romance, passion and intimacy. But it isn't realistic to expect either spouse to be on top of their game 100% of the time when real life never stops. She doesn't have sex with him enough. He can't read my mind and know that I am overwhelmed. In a world where texts and emails have taken over for real conversation, why is it a marriage isn't expected to be harder to maintain.

 

Passionate, infatuation and fatuous love aren't lasting. When they wain, the participants move on to the next fix. When the real world hits, spouses want out. They want to run to a high, a drug. Nothing wrong with that if you choose not to commit to anyone, but if decide to ask someone to share your life and marry, then the responsible, the mature, the adult thing to do would be to tell that same person that you no longer feel that way and then walk the "F" away so that the damage is minimized. Don't make excuses for bad behavior or for the lack of backbone. Just do it. Respect your spouse enough(even if you wish they would eat s*i* and die)to do things the right way. An A, is destructive for years to come. To the adults, to the kids, to future relationships for all involved.

[jj33]

I don't think anyone believes you should stay in a bad marriage. But no matter how it is justified tries to make it, there is always a mature way, an adult way, a right way that you can do things to minimize those tough choices. There is a way to not emotionally abuse a spouse or the other family members. There is a way not to disrespect the person you did marry. There is a way not to disrespect the union of marriage(because like it or not)there are a lot of people who take that union seriously and believe the words they say. It doesn't mean that the spouses are perfect or that they don't do azz-a-nine things. It means that there is a standard that they have set for themselves, and the expectation is that the person they married had those same standards.

 

There is absolutely no reason why a person who says they are mature can't act like they are, unless it is wishful thinking on their part that they are actually mature.

 

Love has been studied by scientist for decades, the one thing they all say is passionate love isn't a constant state. Life takes over. Some times companionate love takes over. This is the love of a committed relationship. This happens during the diapers, during the carpool, during sadness, during death, during the fights, during the stages of "I can't stand you". It continues in the face of temptation, desperation and critical evaluation. This is real love. This is the love that will be there if one spouse is sick, if one spouse loses themselves, if one spouse is unsure of the love. This happens when the gaps are wide and it is hard to see the face of the person you feel in love with.

 

We all want romance, passion and intimacy. But it isn't realistic to expect either spouse to be on top of their game 100% of the time when real life never stops. She doesn't have sex with him enough. He can't read my mind and know that I am overwhelmed. In a world where texts and emails have taken over for real conversation, why is it a marriage isn't expected to be harder to maintain.

 

Passionate, infatuation and fatuous love aren't lasting. When they wain, the participants move on to the next fix. When the real world hits, spouses want out. They want to run to a high, a drug. Nothing wrong with that if you choose not to commit to anyone, but if decide to ask someone to share your life and marry, then the responsible, the mature, the adult thing to do would be to tell that same person that you no longer feel that way and then walk the "F" away so that the damage is minimized. Don't make excuses for bad behavior or for the lack of backbone. Just do it. Respect your spouse enough(even if you wish they would eat s*i* and die)to do things the right way. An A, is destructive for years to come. To the adults, to the kids, to future relationships for all involved.

 

 

Bent that was beautifully put. All the reasons (finances children culture) are just an excuse if they are betraying their spouses trust.

[65tr6]

80% may be cause by infidelity but how many were cause by "Infidelity +true love"? We all know, that many of the people here have posted that statistic shows (accdg. to them) most affairs end because one partner is a selfish, narcissistic person, incapable of loving. Besides, how many of those people ACTUALLY SOUGHT out the married person? that was your contention, right?---that people purposely SOUGHT out love AND destroy anything/anyone in their way. I don't know, but I think most people seek love, hoping to fall in love and the feeling reciprocated and they live happily ever after.Nobody allows himself/herself to fall in love AND destroy another---that's a ridiculous notion.?

 

Help me understand here desert. So are you saying people who sought love with mm/mw is true love ? I am not saying that is not love (though I dont agree that it is true love). I have no doubt in mind that my wife fell in love with the om. Infact I told her the same thing. But she let herself fall in love with complete disregard to everything else around her. She was immature, ignorant and showed utter disrespect for me, my little son and my family.

 

My contention is....It is NOT difficult to seek love and fall in love...especially with new people. That does not mean we want everyone in a committed relationship start doing that. It leads to destruction as I am finding out. Marriage is, as we both agreed on, is more than simple LOVE.

 

Oh, by the way, if they do seek love and fall in love, what makes you think that is true love ? What if that wanes after a while, then you start seeking a TRUER love ? Or that you start wising up because age has caught up with you and you decide enough is enough, let me stop looking for true love ?

 

Do you not think that divorcing couple or betrayed spouses have that responsibility to get over it for the sake of the loved ones and heck, for yourselves?

 

I agree completely.

 

 

I know you didn't just use a cuss word on me! :eek:

nope. sorry if it came out that way. I apologize.

[65tr6]

I don't think anyone believes you should stay in a bad marriage. .

Question, are you saying the marriage was bad to begin with or it turned from a good/decent marriage into a bad one ?

 

If it never worked and there is abuse....I agree...let's end it then and there.

 

What if this happenned over a number of years...say 10 years or more...And in the process you had kids....You have history now. You have memories, friends. You went through struggles in life. You bought a new home together. You fixed a car together. You planned holidays, vacation together and then one day all of a sudden you woke up thinking.....hmm, this is a bad marriage, I am not in love anymore, I better start looking. Is that good ?

 

 

longer feel that way and then walk the "F" away so that the damage is minimized. Don't make excuses for bad behavior or for the lack of backbone. Just do it. Respect your spouse enough(even if you wish they would eat s*i* and die)to do things the right way. .

bent, i am not disagreeing with you. Just saying it does not happen that way. But I really wish spouses took corrective action even before they call it quits. I also know it is easier said than done. It is such a slow and painful process for a good marriage to turn into a bad one, usually it is too late from what i have seen/read, before the couple realises what went wrong.

[bentnotbroken]

I didn't mean the the marriage is actually bad. Just that one spouse decides it's bad and checks out. I think all the marriages that are labeled bad, aren't. It is just a justification for one spouse to go get his/her freak on. I think if things are always as horrible as one says, then you leave. You don't add fuel to an already combustible situation. I didn't think my marriage was bad, I think things weren't good. That my needs weren't being met or my issues addressed. I also believed(wrongly of course)that our vows meant something to Mr. Messy. I had heard him over the years, talk about people (not nicely)who had affairs.

 

I do know that all the things that he told ow about our lives(my issues)didn't disappear overnight when he wanted to come home. I was that same woman he couldn't stand, the same woman who was cruel, evil and intentionally made his life hell(like he was the wonderful husband and father who was always great at what he did), as if he didn't make my life hell.

 

I behaved like the adult, I didn't cheat. I wanted love and affection. Didn't go looking. When it was offered, I was flattered, but didn't accept. It was a slow process. For years anger and resentment built on both parts. Conversation was nil, sex was average.

 

I agree that partners should do everything that they can before they divorce, but I do know that usually somebody checks out without informing the other, and becomes involved because(to us Mr. Messy's excuse) " I thought the marriage was over." Well, azzwhipe, why didn't you tell me it was over and that you were boinking someone else's wife?

 

We as people always look for the easy way out. We don't want to do anything that would make us look like the villain, so affairs seem (God knows I have no idea why)like the sensible way out. (As if everyone knowing you are cheating doesn't make you look bad:confused:). This is such a microwave, got to have now society that working for anything seems like a forgotten concept.

[desertmoon]

Help me understand here desert. So are you saying people who sought love with mm/mw is true love ?

Nope, that's not what I am saying at all! Who knows if it is true love? All I am saying is that, I do not think a normal person wakes in one morning and decides: 'hmmm..today I am going to seek out love with a married person and hurt,destroy lives in the process"...you know what I mean?

 

I am not saying that is not love (though I dont agree that it is true love). I have no doubt in mind that my wife fell in love with the om. Infact I told her the same thing.

 

Funny thing about love is,it is incredibly personal...you cannot really say "what you feel is true love or is not...or your pain is less than mine"--those are all relative. Why do you have to tell your wife? Did she not know? so you read her mind? or are you one of those people who has to have everything labeled and identified because it makes it easier for YOU to deal with?

 

But she let herself fall in love with complete disregard to everything else around her.

 

Again, that is according to you(and if she agreed with your "findings", really what can I wayward spouse do?). Look, I do not know your story. But I think it is safe to assume that if your wife had COMPLETE disregard for you and everything else around her and if she was in love with this guy ( like you are convinced) she would have left you already-a man who did not appreciate her, and man who took her and his marriage for granted, right?

 

She was immature, ignorant and showed utter disrespect for me, my little son and my family

 

and yet, you are fighting to keep her...because that immature, ignorant, utterly disrespectful woman is the woman you love...look at what you are saying here----do you not see? this one single, volatile emotion makes people do seemingly unbelievable things! it's the same with the OW/OM-when they fall in love, there are difficult decisions to be made...

 

My contention is....It is NOT difficult to seek love and fall in love...especially with new people. That does not mean we want everyone in a committed relationship start doing that. It leads to destruction as I am finding out. Marriage is, as we both agreed on, is more than simple LOVE.

 

Got yah. I understand. I do not know if I agree with you about love being "easy to find"---if it was, match.com, mail-order brides would not be lucrative businesses. But I understand what you are saying--you want the single people to stay away from married people and married people to just focused on their mates. In theory, easy to do. In reality, it will take a little bit more effort because everyday, committed or not, as social beings, we make connections with people and those connections- depending on their impact on our lives-sometimes test/cross the social/cultural boundaries.

 

Oh, by the way, if they do seek love and fall in love, what makes you think that is true love ? What if that wanes after a while, then you start seeking a TRUER love ? Or that you start wising up because age has caught up with you and you decide enough is enough, let me stop looking for true love ?

 

ahmm..huh? All I know is that when anything is based on emotion alone , it is a volatile relationship....Did I not mentioned that before?

 

nope. sorry if it came out that way. I apologize.

 

oh ok...don't make me use cuss words in four different languages! !!!

[desertmoon]

God never intended for love to hurt or to hurt others. That isn't his way and I stand firm on that statement.

 

I do not pretend to know what God's intentions were, but I am pretty sure God has not intended for many things to go this way or that way but they have not for the very simple reason that he gave us free will.

 

Do you want your child going trough the trauma & drama that this so called true love causes.

 

No normal person wants their child to go through any kind of trauma. Do you think that Abraham wanted Isaac to be placed on the altar ready to be killed as an offering to God, because there was no greater cause? Can you imagine how traumatizing it must have been for Isaac? He was going to be murdered by his very own father! Can you imagine what Sarah (Abraham's wife, Isaac's mom) must have felt? All because Abraham wanted to prove he is a faithful servant who loved God. Oh there is the word again...LOVE!

 

The point is, adults make choices and those choices are not perfect and sometimes it is painful--all we can do is move forward..hope to heal...

[White Flower]

The point is, adults make choices and those choices are not perfect and sometimes it is painful--all we can do is move forward..hope to heal...

And isn't that the point of the OP? With love, all things are possible...even healing.

[jwi71]

All I am saying is that, I do not think a normal person wakes in one morning and decides: 'hmmm..today I am going to seek out love with a married person and hurt,destroy lives in the process"...you know what I mean?

 

And at some point in time during an A, that IS the decision. Obviously, if one is cheating on his/her spouse, they are actively destroying their spouse. And if one is "dating" a MM/MW, then that is ALSO the decision.

 

It is deliberate and intentional infliction of pain upon others to satisfy one's own needs REGARDLESS of the consequences faced by others. Even innocent ones like children.

 

How many threads have we read where the AP often wonders or fears of the consequences upon innocents - and continues the A anyway? Well, they are deciding to intentionally hurt others to satiate their own needs.

 

All A's have that decision and sadly virtually all of them DECIDE to hurt others in pursuit of "true love" - their "soul mates".

 

Sickening.

[bentnotbroken]

I do not pretend to know what God's intentions were, but I am pretty sure God has not intended for many things to go this way or that way but they have not for the very simple reason that he gave us free will.

 

 

 

No normal person wants their child to go through any kind of trauma. Do you think that Abraham wanted Isaac to be placed on the altar ready to be killed as an offering to God, because there was no greater cause? Can you imagine how traumatizing it must have been for Isaac? He was going to be murdered by his very own father! Can you imagine what Sarah (Abraham's wife, Isaac's mom) must have felt? All because Abraham wanted to prove he is a faithful servant who loved God. Oh there is the word again...LOVE!

 

The point is, adults make choices and those choices are not perfect and sometimes it is painful--all we can do is move forward..hope to heal...

 

 

 

My child(nor anyone else's) sould be placed in a position where it is hoped they will heal in the name of someone's definition of true love. I don't know that Sarah or Isaac knew what Abraham was going to do. I would have to research that. But what he did was because God told him to. I doubt very seriously that God told someone married to have an affair( you know that commandment on adultery)or that he told someone to fall for and have sex with a married person. (Heb. 13:2).

 

You and I both agree that we do a lot of things, that God certainly doesn't approve of or is even saddened by. That doesn't mean we should continue on a path that will certainly lead to destruction and pain. Yes, we make mistakes, yes we make bad choices, but it is very hard for imagine a 2 year, 3 year, 5 year mistake/choice, knowing what the cost will be to so many.

 

The love that Abraham had for God, to me, can't be compared to what we mere humans call true love or soul mate stuff.

[65tr6]

Why do you have to tell your wife? Did she not know? so you read her mind? or are you one of those people who has to have everything labeled and identified because it makes it easier for YOU to deal with?

 

She knew. Just felt awkward sharing with me. So I had to ask her. Yep, I read her mind every once in a while. It is very frustrating the recovery process. Very painful.

 

No, I dont need everything labeled or identified..infact i am the opposite. I hate being "anal" (pardon my expression...but you know what i mean). Just because she was in love does not mean she found her soulmate or she was going to spend rest of her life with someone else.

 

if she was in love with this guy ( like you are convinced) she would have left you already-a man who did not appreciate her, and man who took her and his marriage for granted, right?

(desert, you sound confident but you can always learn a thing or two from me !) I dont think it quite works that way...may be for some. In reality No. It would taken me a little less than a day for me to expose him and my wife to the whole world ! My wife may have done from stupid things but she would not have left me just like that given that we both love our son dearly...among other things.

 

and yet, you are fighting to keep her...because that immature, ignorant, utterly disrespectful woman is the woman you love...look at what you are saying here----do you not see? this one single, volatile emotion makes people do seemingly unbelievable things! it's the same with the OW/OM-when they fall in love, !!!

 

one catch though. I am married to her. We all grow as human beings. I admit. I was a bad husband before. But I (am chaning) have changed. This whole affair has been a huge wake up call for me. I am learning every day. Better father, son, sibling, friend. So, like it or not,there are some good things coming out of this.

 

Just because my wife made a bad choice does not make her a bad person. I have know her for more than 10 years. I know her more than anyone else. So my reaction is not based on one volatile emotion. It is based on my love (true ?) for her. It was built over time. Everything added up over the last 10 years. I wonder even now why the hell I am I doing all this after what she had done to me. (Hence the silly question I had asked earlier "what do i do to make my wife less attractive to me?")

 

I see both you and bent are religious. That is great. I respect that. I wish I was religious. I am fighting this all alone (I feel that way all the time) and I cant even pray. But then I feel that is unfair. Even if I were religious why do people look up to the Almighty in times of desparate need ?. Does not seem fair to me.

[bentnotbroken]

I admit that at one time in my life, I never had time for God unless I was in trouble or wanted something. That isn't the case for me now. I have a relationship with God. I pray and listen to his direction on a daily basis. Do I obey everything...not all things(still learning that submission thing) and sometimes I fight tooth and nail before I listen(stubbornness on my mother's side of the family). I have had times when I was so angry at God, I wouldn't pray. And other times, that I couldn't pray even though I wanted to. I believe I wasn't worthy of his forgiveness or love, I was wrong. And you are never alone. God is with you even if you don't know or want him with you.

[desertmoon]

And at some point in time during an A, that IS the decision. Obviously, if one is cheating on his/her spouse, they are actively destroying their spouse. And if one is "dating" a MM/MW, then that is ALSO the decision.

 

It is deliberate and intentional infliction of pain upon others to satisfy one's own needs REGARDLESS of the consequences faced by others. Even innocent ones like children.

 

How many threads have we read where the AP often wonders or fears of the consequences upon innocents - and continues the A anyway? Well, they are deciding to intentionally hurt others to satiate their own needs.

 

All A's have that decision and sadly virtually all of them DECIDE to hurt others in pursuit of "true love" - their "soul mates".

 

Sickening.

 

Right. No argument there. But that was not what I was talking about, was it? And a "soulmate"?...I do not really know what that is.