Survey says: Women like money, men like youth

[Alma Mobley]

Hehe Tomcat. for the record, I DO consider myself a feminist, though I have never talked or written about the "patriarchy."

 

I think I bother myself with what is going on in the Congo or something, I don't know. I care very much about that kind of thing.

[Alma Mobley]

Oh I also get irritated with certain men on here.

 

I almost thought about blogging about it --

 

"What I have learned about myself on relationship forums"

 

a) I am not good looking unless I am pursuing a man with money

 

b) If I am over 30, I have no value as a woman.

... you get the idea...

[movingonandon]

Ladies, the bottom line is guys like clv can't handle older women because we cut right through their bullshet, we run circles around him and they needssomeone who will shut up but only open her mouth up to take some spoonfulls of bullshet and to say "yes master" while he is off being a MAN.

 

That will never be me, and I am quite happy to admit that. I'll take being single 10000000 times over, thank you VERY much!

 

Actually, you're right (if we get past the presumptious wording). That'e exactly what I personally want - to be able to go off in the world and take care of business and career and come home to a woman who understands that it's not about *her*, but it's about *us*. That is, I want stability at home, not a second job at making a woman who scrutinizes my every move (figuratively speaking), happy. I certainly don't want a doormat or a plastic doll - just a girl who understands that her needs will every once in a while take a hit in the name of our joint progress. It's not like that my first choice would be to work long hours instead of hang out with her, but I'm sucking it up and do it anyway. So when I go to work my ass off so we can have stability, I want a woman who will appreciate that, not one that will assume that I don't meet her emotional needs simply because I'm too tired to even talk after work, or whatever vague idea about the perfect mate she has. I'm speaking from experience - even 'good' girls can fall victims to this entitlement complex. When I, and apparently others, read threads such as "I want my man to be A, B, C ... X, Y, Z,", the natural reaction of amusement is quickly supplanted by "Who the f do you think you are?". You know, everybody is in charge of their own feelings and own happiness. Everything else is teamwork. Having an ever growing list of demands/expectations is not teamwork, it's additional headache.

 

So, how is a second charged career is going to help with any of that? i repeatedly emphasise that i couldn't be happier that women are able to find their calling in life etc. Just sayin that it is conducive to anything but (happy, and lasting) marriage. I certainly wish this was not the case - two professional incomes are actually sufficient to make you rich. But, if you get a high-powered career woman, what do you get? More housework, less emotional support (she has her own s**t to deal with at work), less patience (see above).

 

So, we need to make up our mind about gender roles - if the expectation for men is to stay largely within their traditional gender role (i.e. be strong 'provider'), then please just don't bother us with all the headache that results from the expanding identities and gender roles of women , and stick to a traditional female gender role. If we're done with the traditional gender roles for good, well, then that's great too - just shut up about man having to be "strong" and "good earners" , there are a lot of other redeemable qualities men have, you know .

[sumdude]

I'm just having fun trying to figure out the pots from the kettles in this one..

 

Back in the 60's - 70's my mother was getting involved in women's movements. Early on when NOW started up. At first she thought it was great but over time more and more women joining the movement went from simply wanting equal opportunity to apparently seeking to punish men for perceived sins of the past. These were the same women that started to look down upon other women who actually lived or sought a traditional life yet wanted to help the cause. She left situation that pretty quickly when it changed It's possible to life women up without having to push men and those who disagree down.

 

Why all the negativity on either side?

 

It's all about procreation and it's simple. A younger woman is more likely to bear more and healthier children and a successful man is more likely to be able to support a woman and children.

 

Things change with age and growth too. At 25 I had a whole different set of ideas than I do now.

 

Now if both are successful wage earners it changes the picture to a point. Me, I believe someone should stay home and raise the kids at least until they're in middle school. Women are usually better suited and more interested.

 

My brother married a highly educated, smart and strong woman who is about eight years younger. She has a career but once the kids were born she stayed home until they reached around 10 or so and now she's back at work. A fine compromise and a similar path to one I'd like to find.

[Taramere]

What I have learned about myself on relationship forums"

 

a) I am not good looking unless I am pursuing a man with money

 

b) If I am over 30, I have no value as a woman.

... you get the idea...

 

What's the present market value of a woman under 30 who is pursuing men with money? Is now a good time to buy shares in her, or is her stock likely to fall further in the current climate?

 

I now know that this would have no bearing on my lovelife, as men don't pursue rich women. I think a lifetime of sitting by the pool drinking cocktails, hiding from harsh reality with botox and paying poolboys to tell me I'm pretty well could help to ease the heartache though. Who wants in?

[Star Gazer]

Women want to feel secure and protected. Money is one of the easiest ways to provide that.

 

Men want to feel invincible, and like they'll always be capable of what they could in their hay day. Being with a young woman helps convince them of that. Same reason why they sport tupees and buy sports cars.

[Tomcat33]

Actually, you're right (if we get past the presumptious wording). That'e exactly what I personally want - to be able to go off in the world and take care of business and career and come home to a woman who understands that it's not about *her*, but it's about *us*. That is, I want stability at home, not a second job at making a woman who scrutinizes my every move (figuratively speaking), happy. I certainly don't want a doormat or a plastic doll - just a girl who understands that her needs will every once in a while take a hit in the name of our joint progress. It's not like that my first choice would be to work long hours instead of hang out with her, but I'm sucking it up and do it anyway. So when I go to work my ass off so we can have stability, I want a woman who will appreciate that, not one that will assume that I don't meet her emotional needs simply because I'm too tired to even talk after work, or whatever vague idea about the perfect mate she has. I'm speaking from experience - even 'good' girls can fall victims to this entitlement complex. When I, and apparently others, read threads such as "I want my man to be A, B, C ... X, Y, Z,", the natural reaction of amusement is quickly supplanted by "Who the f do you think you are?". You know, everybody is in charge of their own feelings and own happiness. Everything else is teamwork. Having an ever growing list of demands/expectations is not teamwork, it's additional headache.

 

.

 

Yeah yeah yeah I get it translation =

 

so that when I am d1cking around online all day having discussion with people on a relationship forum with other people "that work just as hard as myself", she will be stupid enough not to question what I did all day and will cater to me hand and foot thinking I am making some incredible sacrifice to support her.

 

 

Listen bud you don't work THAT hard, no one works THAT hard. what you discribed is wanting someone who THINKS you do and therefore will eat your crap up by the bucket fulls. And nothing like a young innocent girl to do that. And that's fine but let's call it what it is shall we?

 

 

That's is what I have been seeing all along and 30 pages later nothing has changed. Just don't come crying when she clues in.

[grogster]

What's the present market value of a woman under 30 who is pursuing men with money? Is now a good time to buy shares in her, or is her stock likely to fall further in the current climate?

 

I now know that this would have no bearing on my lovelife, as men don't pursue rich women. I think a lifetime of sitting by the pool drinking cocktails, hiding from harsh reality with botox and paying poolboys to tell me I'm pretty well could help to ease the heartache though. Who wants in?

 

 

It depends on whether she qualifies for a "stimulus." In which case it's buy!

 

As for me, I pursue every wealthy woman I can find. So far, though, these gilded girls have been avoiding me.

 

I suspect they're sticking it to the Patriarchy.

[clv0116]

Oh was he dating 2 other types of women ....

 

What? They're 20 (just turned, I think last time I posted she was 19), 24 and 26. Those who believe in the power of the stars can draw conclusions about the fact that they all are winter babies.

 

They're all looking to become homemakers and also have other interests, but are not devoted to their careers. So all pretty similar 'type' whatever that means.

 

 

 

Okay, clv, I'm in my 30s-- why would you next me based on age? Tell me I am not worth starting a family with, etc? I'd really like to know.

 

In the past I would have possibly dated you but now I'm looking to start a family and I wouldn't date you so nexting isn't an issue so much.

 

 

 

You're the one who said, "I'm sure you will be but the guys attracted to you as you fade will be fewer and of lower quality on average"

 

You're the one who said "will be,"

 

I try to speak precisely, probably an artifact of my career path. "On average" was not there just to sound flowery. It cites the statistical fact that men tend to value youth and beauty while acknowledging that like all statistical models other factors will confound the results as well as acknowledging the normal variation around the mean.

 

But it's simpler to just say "on average" if your audience doesn't need too much hand-holding.

[clv0116]

This conjures up a depressing, sordid picture of sad ladies who are too desperate, lonely, addled or scared to accept reality. We're not expected to be impressed by these notches on your bedpost, I hope.

 

I'm not trying to impress you as should be pretty obvious. I'm here for honest discussion. For what it's worth I'd only call one of the women I dated in the past truly addled; she was an alcoholic gambler among other things, but she sure was 'good at one thing' as some posters like to put it. Age 30 at the time as a matter of fact.

[Tomcat33]

. I certainly don't want a doormat or a plastic doll - just a girl who understands that her needs will every once in a while take a hit in the name of our joint progress. .

 

 

And let me ask you this:

 

If the type of woman who is desirable to you is the kind that understands her needs will take a hit from time to time in the name of prgress in the relationsship, (still trying to figure out WHAT that joint progress is???) explain to me what is in it for these young ladies aside from a roof over their heads, a credit card for frivolous spending and food on the table? ALL things which I might add any woman with half a brain can obtain all on her own.

[fral945]

That's not feminism that is retardation. You really need to education yourself more Woggle, you sound really silly making comments like that.

 

I think Woggle is just trying to defend masculinism against all the feminist dogma and the covert matriarchy.

[Tomcat33]

Hehe Tomcat. for the record, I DO consider myself a feminist, though I have never talked or written about the "patriarchy."

 

 

Yeah maybe if you were Gloria Steinem circa 1949.

[Alma Mobley]

What's the present market value of a woman under 30 who is pursuing men with money? Is now a good time to buy shares in her, or is her stock likely to fall further in the current climate?

 

I now know that this would have no bearing on my lovelife, as men don't pursue rich women. I think a lifetime of sitting by the pool drinking cocktails, hiding from harsh reality with botox and paying poolboys to tell me I'm pretty well could help to ease the heartache though. Who wants in?

 

I was being facetious. Obviously, being over 30, my stock has fallen a great deal... supposedly.

[Tomcat33]

I think Woggle is just trying to defend masculinism against all the feminist dogma and the covert matriarchy.

 

 

Well whatever he is doing it sounds foolish. Anything taken to the extreme ALL the time is foolish.

 

Personally I think he is still not over his ex regardless of how poorly she treated him and how much of a witch she turned out to be, and therefore he hates all women to justify his unresolved feelings for her. Some people are just suckers for abuse.

[Alma Mobley]

Actually, you're right (if we get past the presumptious wording). That'e exactly what I personally want - to be able to go off in the world and take care of business and career and come home to a woman who understands that it's not about *her*, but it's about *us*. That is, I want stability at home, not a second job at making a woman who scrutinizes my every move (figuratively speaking), happy. I certainly don't want a doormat or a plastic doll - just a girl who understands that her needs will every once in a while take a hit in the name of our joint progress. It's not like that my first choice would be to work long hours instead of hang out with her, but I'm sucking it up and do it anyway. So when I go to work my ass off so we can have stability, I want a woman who will appreciate that, not one that will assume that I don't meet her emotional needs simply because I'm too tired to even talk after work, or whatever vague idea about the perfect mate she has. I'm speaking from experience - even 'good' girls can fall victims to this entitlement complex. When I, and apparently others, read threads such as "I want my man to be A, B, C ... X, Y, Z,", the natural reaction of amusement is quickly supplanted by "Who the f do you think you are?". You know, everybody is in charge of their own feelings and own happiness. Everything else is teamwork. Having an ever growing list of demands/expectations is not teamwork, it's additional headache.

 

So, how is a second charged career is going to help with any of that? i repeatedly emphasise that i couldn't be happier that women are able to find their calling in life etc. Just sayin that it is conducive to anything but (happy, and lasting) marriage. I certainly wish this was not the case - two professional incomes are actually sufficient to make you rich. But, if you get a high-powered career woman, what do you get? More housework, less emotional support (she has her own s**t to deal with at work), less patience (see above).

 

So, we need to make up our mind about gender roles - if the expectation for men is to stay largely within their traditional gender role (i.e. be strong 'provider'), then please just don't bother us with all the headache that results from the expanding identities and gender roles of women , and stick to a traditional female gender role. If we're done with the traditional gender roles for good, well, then that's great too - just shut up about man having to be "strong" and "good earners" , there are a lot of other redeemable qualities men have, you know .

 

This says a lot about you, but not much about me. Sorry.

[lord alfred douglas]

You know women say stuff like what CV posted about men all the time and you guys enjoy it and oftentimes agree with it

 

WHy are you so outraged by his comments? I see women talking about how gross men are after a certain age and how they feel entitled to a significantly younger man all the time

[movingonandon]

And let me ask you this:

 

If the type of woman who is desirable to you is the kind that understands her needs will take a hit from time to time in the name of prgress in the relationsship, (still trying to figure out WHAT that joint progress is???) explain to me what is in it for these young ladies aside from a roof over their heads, a credit card for frivolous spending and food on the table? ALL things which I might add any woman with half a brain can obtain all on her own.

 

 

Well, actual success (vs. having some middle management job - which yes, anybody with half brain can do), is actually pretty hard to achieve, so there you go. My last relationship ended precisely in the midst of me making one of the hardest professional transitions most people would ever make. My choices were made additionally harder precisely because I considered our joint interests, rather than blindly pursue the most efficient path to myself. No appreciation whatsoever (and I still think my ex was a great woman too). Don't want to even think of how would a 'fierce' one would behave.

 

While most people don't live lives of constant struggle, many women are likely to bail precisely in such moments (and in this conclusion, I have a lot more than my own story to work with). Not because they lack strenght, but because they're selfish.

[clv0116]

And, like I said, those men who have weeded themselves out based on the fading are shallow, insignificant jackasses

 

For those taking notes, I believe that was a put-down.

 

 

 

, so why would we give two shytes? As if men don't "fade" as well.

 

Mens youth and 'beauty' fades just like womens does, however statistical evidence and real life experience show that their value in the dating market is less influenced by that fade on average than for women. Indeed I and most of my peers have found that we have more and better dating options now than in the distant past, although I suspect this will begin to reverse quickly in the very near future. I think my personal 'dating market value' probably peaked about 2-4 years ago when I was about 38 or 40, but I'm still high enough value that I can do pretty well for myself.

[Alma Mobley]

In the past I would have possibly dated you but now I'm looking to start a family and I wouldn't date you so nexting isn't an issue so much.

 

Actually, that is a fair answer. Just don't dump all sorts of stuff on me or tell me what I want or how I act, and I will do you the same courtesy.

 

If you think you cannot be with a woman over 30 because of fertility issues, that is fine. Everyone has a criteria. Best of luck.

[Tomcat33]

. No appreciation whatsoever (and I still think my ex was a great woman too). Don't want to even think of how would a 'fierce' one would behave.

 

 

 

This is where you fall short of estimating the capabilities of a "fiierce" woman. A fierce woman ironically enough will probably understand it more because she is accustomed to making sacrifices to obtain what she wants. She doesn't sit around on her patootie all day hoping that she will "get lucky" and life will benfit her. She makes her luck therefore can fully comprehend what it is like to make sacrifices to obtain that.

[Tomcat33]

WHy are you so outraged by his comments?

 

Not outraged by his comments just reminding him, when he tries to tell us that he is not putting us down, that he actually is. As long as we are all on the same page then let the insults roll, but if you are going to insult don't say "Well I haven't been doing that" when you clearly have.

[lord alfred douglas]

Not outraged by his comments just reminding him, when he tries to tell us that he is not putting us down, that he actually is. As long as we are all on the same page then let the insults roll, but if you are going to insult don't say "Well I haven't been doing that" when you clearly have.

Is it really an insult?

 

How many women on this thread alone have said they dont like men even their same age , let alone older?

 

I don't like how things have flipped around in the last ten years or so

[clv0116]

Actually, that is a fair answer. Just don't dump all sorts of stuff on me or tell me what I want or how I act, and I will do you the same courtesy.

 

If you think you cannot be with a woman over 30 because of fertility issues, that is fine. Everyone has a criteria. Best of luck.

 

Applying a statistical result directly to an individual is madness, however it's a great way to predict how the overall population will behave. I don't care about you individually (not in a mean way, just saying) so much as I care about the knowledge that there is an acceptably large pool of women who will in fact behave more or less in accord with the statistical norm. All I have to do is sort through that pool.

 

As for fertility issues I don't think you have anything to fear but *I* want to show my future wife a really good time, travel, have some really rich shared experiences together and having kids immediately would make that difficult. Of course raising a family should also be rewarding but everything has it's time and place.

[Alma Mobley]

While most people don't live lives of constant struggle, many women are likely to bail precisely in such moments.

 

See? That is completely unfair and you know it. Why do you say stuff like that?

 

Everyone has been bailed on at some point or another. There are SO many single women out there, living in poverty -- I am sure they BAILED just to make things harder on themselves?

 

Sorry, but humans beings, regardless of sex, can be pretty crappy sometimes. We have all been let down at one time or another by a friend, a lover, a companion.

 

I have had my horrible experiences but I would never compare every man to the man who let me down -- and REALLY let me down. Why would I do that?