Survey says: Women like money, men like youth

[Woggle]

My ex very much can be considered a feminist because there are quite a few women who think of female infidelity as a feminist act of defiance. It is all about women reclaiming their identity and taking what they want plus beating men at their own game. If you don't believe me look it up on the internet. Look at how many women on here view affairs as a liberating thing. Women betraying their man and feminism are very much tied together.

 

I am still somewhat angry about how I was treated because what i posted in this thread is only scratching the surface but my issues with women go way beyond her. All my life from the time I was a child I just kept dealing with these mean ass women who glee in hurting men. From my mother who abused me to get back at my father to all the teachers who told me I was worthless to the many other examples I have been treated like garbage by women my entire life. For the most of this time I quietly cowered and thought if I just more nicer they would finally approve of me but the better I treated women the more they resented me. I remember my mother taking a mothers day card I made for her and spitting in my face.

 

After the split with my ex something snapped in me and I grew a set of balls. I turned into a misogynist prick who promised to never let a woman treat me like a doormat again and things turned around from there. All of a sudden I was getting respect from women and my life was turning around. These days I look a feminist in the eye with no fear and I tell her what I think of her misandry. The newfound confidence inspired me to do so well that I have my house paid off at age 30 and I have found a woman who truly deserves the nice guy side of me. I don't treat her well because I am afraid of her or I am afraid of her leaving me or chewing me out. I treat her well because I want to and she does everything to deserve that kind of treatment. I was going to therapy for a while because I thought I had a problem but in reality I think I have it all figured out.

 

So tell me again why it is wrong for me to have this attitude? How can something that has done so much good for my life be a bad thing? I suppose the women on here would rather I have stayed a neutered man just begging for acceptance from women who would hesitate to put me down.

[movingonandon]

My ex very much can be considered a feminist because there are quite a few women who think of female infidelity as a feminist act of defiance. It is all about women reclaiming their identity and taking what they want plus beating men at their own game. If you don't believe me look it up on the internet. Look at how many women on here view affairs as a liberating thing. Women betraying their man and feminism are very much tied together.

 

I am still somewhat angry about how I was treated because what i posted in this thread is only scratching the surface but my issues with women go way beyond her. All my life from the time I was a child I just kept dealing with these mean ass women who glee in hurting men. From my mother who abused me to get back at my father to all the teachers who told me I was worthless to the many other examples I have been treated like garbage by women my entire life. For the most of this time I quietly cowered and thought if I just more nicer they would finally approve of me but the better I treated women the more they resented me. I remember my mother taking a mothers day card I made for her and spitting in my face.

 

After the split with my ex something snapped in me and I grew a set of balls. I turned into a misogynist prick who promised to never let a woman treat me like a doormat again and things turned around from there. All of a sudden I was getting respect from women and my life was turning around. These days I look a feminist in the eye with no fear and I tell her what I think of her misandry. The newfound confidence inspired me to do so well that I have my house paid off at age 30 and I have found a woman who truly deserves the nice guy side of me. I don't treat her well because I am afraid of her or I am afraid of her leaving me or chewing me out. I treat her well because I want to and she does everything to deserve that kind of treatment. I was going to therapy for a while because I thought I had a problem but in reality I think I have it all figured out.

 

So tell me again why it is wrong for me to have this attitude? How can something that has done so much good for my life be a bad thing? I suppose the women on here would rather I have stayed a neutered man just begging for acceptance from women who would hesitate to put me down.

 

F* yeah !

I had an extensive qualifying comment to all that, but then deleted it because it would be a restatement of the obvious. I've had no unpleasant experiences with women of this magnitude, but I've reached the same conclusion - which is that pursuing and pleasing a woman is one of the most fruithless undertakings in the world. Now, treating well a deserving one is a completely different story...

 

ALso, to save some space, here is a list of the responses that will follow:

- you're a prick

- You're a prick and your wife is messed up in ways that matches your own pathology

- I would never date you

- you have way too many unresolved mother issues

- why do you generalize to all women based on idyosincratic experiences

- wah, wah, wah

[Tomcat33]

Woggle I appreciate that you had some really bad things happen to you with women but really the only thing that I can excuse as a foundation for these troubles is the horrible things that your mother did to you. I am sorry to hear that because it is really sad. Read Sumdude's signature and that is what I am talking about, projection and what the universe gives back to you. You cannot go through a lifetime of repetitive negative experiences pretty much with every woman of stature in your life and not see that:

 

a) you were the common denominator in all these interactions

b) all this roots back to your view of what was supposed to be the safest and most iconic female figure in your life did to your trust and outlook on women. Of course I mean your mother.

 

There is NO way that what transpired after cannot be related back to her. Parents are who we look up to and are supposed to feel the safest around, we are supposed to trust them like no other and as a human being developing boundaries for ourselves within the context of the world outside of us, the relation that we develop with the two key gender roles (parents) will denote how we will relate to others in all aspects of life.

 

Having said that, we can all have bad experiences with people. I sure have had my share of bad experiences with certain people (men and women) and I have had my share of great experiences with people (men and women) In some instances I have been the perpetrator of negativity in others it has been other people, YOU CANNOT go through life thinking a whole gender or everyone out there is against you and inflicting negativity and not see that you had something to do in how those interactions failed.

 

What is really sad is that you think that being a misogynist is what gave you some equity and solid ground in terms of proving yourself to the world when in fact the only thing you would have gained from turning into a completely broken person is to attract another completely broken person. Is that how you see your current wife? As someone completely broken?

 

That is essentially what you are telling us. If it took you turning into a complete misogynist in order to finally attract the right kind of woman what does that say about the poor woman who is married to you today? Really think about that.

[Woggle]

I don't see myself or my wife as broken people. When I finaly put myself together I found a together woman.

[Tomcat33]

I don't see myself or my wife as broken people. When I finaly put myself together I found a together woman.

 

 

I didn't think so. Your bark is louder than your bite, BUT there is obviously some deep seated hurt that you carry inside that has left a mark and has prompted you to act as you have all your life. What you are saying now is that when you put yourself together you found a woman who is together. And that sounds good.

 

When you say that it took you turning into a misogynist in order for you to turn your life back, that sounds like you sunk deeper into dispair. You are not doing yourself any favour in willfully labelling yourself as a woman hater or acting as one.

 

That's my opinion for whatever it's worth.

[Woggle]

I don 't know if I consider myself a misogynist but since I get called one so much I might as well own it. I respect women who respect me and I refuse to make excuses for women who are obviously wrong. If a woman cheats I throw her out on her butt instead of trying to understand her or blaming myself for the affair. I don't excuse male cheaters or abusers either.

[Tomcat33]

I don 't know if I consider myself a misogynist but since I get called one so much I might as well own it. I respect women who respect me and I refuse to make excuses for women who are obviously wrong. If a woman cheats I throw her out on her butt instead of trying to understand her or blaming myself for the affair. I don't excuse male cheaters or abusers either.

 

 

Cool fair enough. I think that most sane people with values would agree to all of that. That still doesn't explain why all women are pegged as feminists trying to backstab males via adultery when adultery is the most selfish act of a human being that has lost their way? It has a lot less to do with their gender and far more to do with how they feel inside as a person.

Human beings are proned to desctruction, it's not gender specific and that is hardly a concept that was introduced with feminism.

[Woggle]

My gripe is how male cheaters are seen as the bad guys yet female cheaters are seen as the victims. We live in a society where no matter how wrong a woman is she can turn it around to male her look like a victim and many people will believe her. It's not just cheating but anything. To me I am actually less of a misogynist because I treat women as capable human beings to be held accountable when they do wrong instead of helpless children who are not responsible for their actions.

[Tomcat33]

Well I can't speak for everyone but a cheater is a cheater. But I will give you that sometimes women can pass it off better in terms of why they did it far more than how a man could. But I don't really think it is feminism that is to blame for that but rather the bad rep that men have built up for themselves over centuries of philandering about and blaming their male homones and intrinsic wiring for it.

 

So when a man cheats we automatically attach the old cliche, "he couldn't keep it in his pants because he is a man" when I am sure there are some cases where circumstance could have lead to adultery and it was not so much a macho drive but a need to be loved because he was abused at home or what have you, not excusing cheating just saying that different things can contribute to a person's decision to do so and not just due to hopped up hormones. Some women abuse their men and vice versa. What I am saying is that this is what has been cemented in society in terms of why men do it and how we still to this day celebrate the player but insult the "slut" and it leaves a huge divide of "men are pigs women are victims"

 

I honestly think it has less to do with feminsm. If men were to conduct themselves with a little more respect as a whole then we would be forced as a society to also victimize men instead of always excusing women even when they deserve the same if not more blame.

[Woggle]

I can see what you are saying but if women are just as intelligent, capable and strong as men which I do believe they are they also should be held to the same standards when they do wrong. Not being held accountable is a big reason why my ex is where she is. Her family refuse to get tough with her. If she gets into a fight at a bar or she is caught driving under the influence they bail her out every time. They let her shoot heroin in the house because at least she is not in the street using it. They blame me for her using and think that if I took her back she would magically get clean and turn her life around. Maybe if they let her fall hard she would get a dose of reality and be forced to get her act together but she plays the poor little woman act and they fall for it.

[Tomcat33]

I can see what you are saying but if women are just as intelligent, capable and strong as men which I do believe they are they also should be held to the same standards when they do wrong.

 

Some women are none of those things comperable to other women let alone to other men. Of course she should be held accountable I would never say let a woman off the hook because she is a woman, but sometimes we have to realise that the people we choose to trust were people that were going to dissapoint us, it just so happens the most valuable lessons we learn about the world and about ourselves is through our romantic relationships, you are a straight man who likes women and therefore your ties and also closest learning experiences with BE with women. Your relationship with her and what you had to deal with is also I am sure skewed as seen through her families eyes, but you really have to be there to deal with an addict it can't be easy.

 

 

 

Accountability is something that you need to hold true to all the people that are in your life, it holds your level of respect in check and your dignity in tact. That accountability should go both ways, but you cannot be accountable for someone who does not want to take their own share of responsibility you can only do so much for others and sometimes it is best to walk away. And you did just that. It's frustrating and I TOTALLY get this is were your angst stems from you prob feel like you gave so much and she did nothing on her part to stand up and face her side of things but people DO that. Men and women both do that.

 

 

Not being held accountable is a big reason why my ex is where she is. Her family refuse to get tough with her. If she gets into a fight at a bar or she is caught driving under the influence they bail her out every time. They let her shoot heroin in the house because at least she is not in the street using it. They blame me for her using and think that if I took her back she would magically get clean and turn her life around. Maybe if they let her fall hard she would get a dose of reality and be forced to get her act together but she plays the poor little woman act and they fall for it.

 

 

that is so sad, it seems her family is inexperienced in what they are dealing with and therefore why they are so deep in denial and their support if finishing her off.

 

It's sad that you loved her and it couldn't work out but she was sick, she has a disease it wasn't a disease of feminism or beacause she is a woman, or even a disease of what her friends who were feminsts wanted for her it was an addiction that she could not kick and there is not much you can do for someone like that outside of how much they are willing to do for themselves. she seems to be surrounded by a tight unit of people who support her lifstyle through their own ignorance, and that accountability or lack there of stems from there.

[Taramere]

That is essentially what you are telling us. If it took you turning into a complete misogynist in order to finally attract the right kind of woman what does that say about the poor woman who is married to you today? Really think about that.

 

I take a lot of what Woggle says with a pinch of salt, but leaving that aside....I suppose it's possible that he got married to a woman who has strong rescuer inclinations. Or she might feel bitter and cynical about men in general, regard Woggle as an exception and relate to him.

 

From what I can see, the the OP's motive with this thread is to get women to admit that they're as cynical about men as he is about women. We use them for cash, they use us in a dispassionate manner until they feel sufficiently past their prime to settle down with girls in her twenties. It's easier to use people in a dispassionate, cynical manner if you adopt the view that everyone's doing it - and that most people just don't have the balls to be honest about it.

 

In my area, the guys with that mentality tend to be high earning manual workers who want younger wives. Used to be that they'd marry what we term "minkers" who thought they were getting a step up in the world. Now it's more likely to be wives from Eastern Europe or Asia who think they can get a better life and a fairer deal here. I'm pretty well versed in all of this, because I used to work as a divorce lawyer. I had quite a few young foreign wives coming in for divorce advice. They liked my manner and my non-judgemental approach. They bonded with me, and recommended me to friends.

 

By and large, I found them to be very likeable women who were far too classy for the men they'd married.

 

"You know Taramere, I'm not a gold digger. I fell in love, and part of me still does love him. But you cannot know what it is like. All he wants to do in the evening is sit watching the television or be on his computer (Taramere casts a nervous glance at her own pc screen). We never seem to talk....nothing in common...I am a young woman.... I thought British men were supposed to be good husbands. I thought they treated their wives with love and respect.....I was so excited to come here,.....so difficult to make friends (Taramere gently pushes the box of tissues towards her). You are so kind. I have details of his pension plan and photocopies of all bank accounts (shy, embarrassed smile). I want this to be amicable."

 

Or occasionally "He is a violent man, Taramere - you can not imagine. I thought British men were kind, but he is not at all. I just know he is going to get the worst, most horrible lawyer in this city. I need someone who can stand up to bullies and be strong. Can you do that? I have details of his pension plan..."

 

I nod sympathetically making big eyes back. How could anyone hit this sweet little woman? I believe her totally, though naturally I'll have to start digging around for evidence. Once she's gone, I'll make a start on the writ. Maybe read a bit of "all women are scum....use them for what you can get out of them" on the Internet to get my blood up. It's great when you can feel passionate about your work.

 

Right at this moment, reading this thread, I'm thinking "maybe I could go back into that work after all." Then I remember that I also had male clients who really did seem to be getting taken to the cleaners by younger wives. I thought they were foolish and gullible, but I didn't believe they were violent. I genuinely did feel sorry for them.

 

I'm a soft touch, and I almost invariably believed everything my clients told me. So gullible! Hell, I'd probably even feel sorry for the OP here if he walked into my office in 10 years time with a sob story about meeting an "evil, gold digging whore" (aka a woman who is his perfect match in terms of cynicism). Admittedly even for me, that would be a stretch.

 

Happy Valentine's Day everyone! May the attached have a romantic day, and the unattached-but-looking find true love. And may the cynical find eachother (and nae spoil another couple, as they say in my neck of the woods).

[marlena]

Happy Valentine's Day everyone!

 

Thanks, Taramere!! You, too!!

[Tomcat33]

Great story Taramere. I know what you mean I was on a date tonight that reminded me a lot of some of the stuff we've discussed here, it was really creepy actually. Not the date, the correlations.

[Taramere]

Great story Taramere. I know what you mean I was on a date tonight that reminded me a lot of some of the stuff we've discussed here, it was really creepy actually. Not the date, the correlations.

 

It's weird when the cyberworld and the real world start overlapping like that.

 

I hear men coming out with stuff like that too, but somehow it's never so bad hearing it on a face to face basis as it is reading it on the Internet. I wonder what we should take from that. When you can put a human face and a personality to these words, it's harder to believe that people really mean it. Especially if you're programmed to have an optimistic belief that despite all their flaws, people aren't all that bad.

 

Maybe we filter out too much in real life, that we wouldn't filter out if we were just reading bare words on a message board like this. If we block out the person with all the softening non verbals, and focus purely on the words, would it make us better judges of character maybe? I do often find myself wondering, when I'm talking to a guy, "who would he be on the Internet?"

[grogster]

It's weird when the cyberworld and the real world start overlapping like that.

 

I hear men coming out with stuff like that too, but somehow it's never so bad hearing it on a face to face basis as it is reading it on the Internet. I wonder what we should take from that. When you can put a human face and a personality to these words, it's harder to believe that people really mean it. Especially if you're programmed to have an optimistic belief that despite all their flaws, people aren't all that bad.

 

Maybe we filter out too much in real life, that we wouldn't filter out if we were just reading bare words on a message board like this. If we block out the person with all the softening non verbals, and focus purely on the words, would it make us better judges of character maybe? I do often find myself wondering, when I'm talking to a guy, "who would he be on the Internet?"

 

I've often said that message boarding not only brings out the worst in people (self-righteous message-mongering) but you never obtain the full measure of the person. How can you?

 

It's just text. We lack visual cues. So as I type here in my underwear, with my Joachim Phoenix, Unabomber look, I recommend that we all use web cams and be miked.

 

Font, avatars and text don't do us justice.

 

To all my relationship/dating buddies, Happy Valentines Day. And for those not involved, this link will make you happy:

 

http://jasonshafrin.com/papers/Marriage.pdf

 

Stay single, stay thin.

[marlena]

I've often said that message boarding not only brings out the worst in people

 

Especially in the OM/OW, Infidelity and Political sections.

 

but you never obtain the full measure of the person.

 

Unfortunately sometimes you do.

[grogster]

Especially in the OM/OW, Infidelity and Political sections.

 

 

 

Unfortunately sometimes you do.

 

I understand, marlena. Have a happy Valentines Day weekend, sweetie.

[marlena]

I understand, marlena. Have a happy Valentines Day weekend, sweetie.

 

I knew you would. You always do. You, too, groggie darling.

[movingonandon]

I take a lot of what Woggle says with a pinch of salt, but leaving that aside....I suppose it's possible that he got married to a woman who has strong rescuer inclinations. Or she might feel bitter and cynical about men in general, regard Woggle as an exception and relate to him.

 

From what I can see, the the OP's motive with this thread is to get women to admit that they're as cynical about men as he is about women. We use them for cash, they use us in a dispassionate manner until they feel sufficiently past their prime to settle down with girls in her twenties. It's easier to use people in a dispassionate, cynical manner if you adopt the view that everyone's doing it - and that most people just don't have the balls to be honest about it.

 

In my area, the guys with that mentality tend to be high earning manual workers who want younger wives. Used to be that they'd marry what we term "minkers" who thought they were getting a step up in the world. Now it's more likely to be wives from Eastern Europe or Asia who think they can get a better life and a fairer deal here. I'm pretty well versed in all of this, because I used to work as a divorce lawyer. I had quite a few young foreign wives coming in for divorce advice. They liked my manner and my non-judgemental approach. They bonded with me, and recommended me to friends.

 

By and large, I found them to be very likeable women who were far too classy for the men they'd married.

 

"You know Taramere, I'm not a gold digger. I fell in love, and part of me still does love him. But you cannot know what it is like. All he wants to do in the evening is sit watching the television or be on his computer (Taramere casts a nervous glance at her own pc screen). We never seem to talk....nothing in common...I am a young woman.... I thought British men were supposed to be good husbands. I thought they treated their wives with love and respect.....I was so excited to come here,.....so difficult to make friends (Taramere gently pushes the box of tissues towards her). You are so kind. I have details of his pension plan and photocopies of all bank accounts (shy, embarrassed smile). I want this to be amicable."

 

Or occasionally "He is a violent man, Taramere - you can not imagine. I thought British men were kind, but he is not at all. I just know he is going to get the worst, most horrible lawyer in this city. I need someone who can stand up to bullies and be strong. Can you do that? I have details of his pension plan..."

 

I nod sympathetically making big eyes back. How could anyone hit this sweet little woman? I believe her totally, though naturally I'll have to start digging around for evidence. Once she's gone, I'll make a start on the writ. Maybe read a bit of "all women are scum....use them for what you can get out of them" on the Internet to get my blood up. It's great when you can feel passionate about your work.

 

Right at this moment, reading this thread, I'm thinking "maybe I could go back into that work after all." Then I remember that I also had male clients who really did seem to be getting taken to the cleaners by younger wives. I thought they were foolish and gullible, but I didn't believe they were violent. I genuinely did feel sorry for them.

 

I'm a soft touch, and I almost invariably believed everything my clients told me. So gullible! Hell, I'd probably even feel sorry for the OP here if he walked into my office in 10 years time with a sob story about meeting an "evil, gold digging whore" (aka a woman who is his perfect match in terms of cynicism). Admittedly even for me, that would be a stretch.

 

Happy Valentine's Day everyone! May the attached have a romantic day, and the unattached-but-looking find true love. And may the cynical find eachother (and nae spoil another couple, as they say in my neck of the woods).

 

Some of my ex's complaints is that I didn't treat her as "equal", that I wasn't interested in what she has to say, and that i didn't "understand" her. All of this is true. Does this mean that I didn't love her and cared about her? Of course not. I had her and our best interests in mind, and my version of this didn't match her overly emotional, romantic, and yes - pathologically needy personality.

 

The point being that your post confounds several issues. One of them being that except in the case of obvious abuse, these women had nothing particular to complain about other than vague discomfort produced by typical guy things such as "plopping yourself ont eh couch" after work. They *knew* they're marrying working class dudes. That's what working class dudes do. Sure, I understand that they probably weren't getting "understanding" blah, blah, blah, but those guys, as unsophisticated as they were, comitted to them and tried to build some version of a life together. So, they decided amicably walk away with half of their working class assets instead.

 

Here's the ghing: expecting somebody else to take care of your emotional needs is way worse offense than being emotionally guarded, aloof or even - yes - empty. As unnatractive as this can be for some women, at least in the latter case you are in charge of your own feelings.

 

So, the so-called mysoginistic comments you supposedly read here certainly do not advocate disrespect or mistreatment of women. They merely reflect the perfectly sensible position that a guy's best bet is to live his life to the best satisfaction of his needs possible, and a woman can take it or leave it - I'm not going to sweat it. I'm taking care of my needs, and a woman could enhance this life, but I'm not going to do anything to "try to convince" her.

 

Back to my ex: forceful personality and assertiveness were precisely the qualities that attracted her to me in the first place. Then, several years later all of a sudden this wasn't good enough so she left. I am not saying that I will not take note and try to learn something out of this - I already did - but will certainly not try to mold myself in unnatural ways so I'm better able to "please" the next woman/women. Self-improvement I do for myself, not for women. And an important milestone in that is realising that you simply cannot let your guard down. Even if you're in a good relationship, any sign of weakness (which includes even being apparently comfortable !)makes the woman wonder if she's made the right choice. Hence, the positions you see here are simply advocating operating from a (natural male) position of strenght, broadly defined. Hence, the dispassionate approach.

 

If that's your definition of disinterestedly using people - fine by me. Life is lonely enterprise, and a pleasant, reliable companion is all I expect in a relationship. Not to mention that no matter how well you think you know someone, you typically see completely unknown and bizzare side of them come crisis time. When such time comes, I won't need her, but I will be there for her if she deserves it.

[stillafool]

..and this is the exact attitude that has made marriage so passe and fleeting... Like trading in a car for the next one when things aren't just perfect. It's not the same thing to me. When I married my ex wife I effin' meant it.. apparently she didn't.

 

Hello... commitment!?? The whole point of marriage is taking it to the next level. Hell or high water and all that. If you're not willing to follow through just don't get married. You'll save yourself and any SO a lot of pain.

 

What is a woman to do when she falls in love, marries a guy who treats her well, has a big wedding, goes on an expensive honeymoon, and gets knocked across the room on her honeymoon night? Only to return home to more verbal and physical abuse that she never knew he was capable of before she said "I do". That is what happened to me in my first marriage and I couldn't wait to get the hell away from him. There are many reasons why people leave marriages and some women are abused and should leave their husbands.

[movingonandon]

I

To all my relationship/dating buddies, Happy Valentines Day. And for those not involved, this link will make you happy:

 

http://jasonshafrin.com/papers/Marriage.pdf

 

Stay single, stay thin.

 

Economists rock, always have .

The study is incomplete though: exiting the dating market reduces the incentive to stay thin, which in turn increases the partner's incentive to leave the marriage and re-enter the dating market.

 

I've decided that I will leave my future wife if she gains too much weight and does not engage in credible effort to lose it. That dispasionate enough for you ?

The whole notion that love transcends physical attractiveness has major flaws in it. (Where do I begin?!?)

[Taramere]

If that's your definition of disinterestedly using people - fine by me.

 

No, the definition you gave is not my definition of disinterestedly using people. I had in mind, something like this - by the OP

 

For what it's worth I'd only call one of the women I dated in the past truly addled; she was an alcoholic gambler among other things, but she sure was 'good at one thing' as some posters like to put it. Age 30 at the time as a matter of fact.

 

Let me rephrase it. As the thread is comparing women who chase money to men who chase youth, let's imagine that when the woman here is talking about "good at one thing" she means "paying for my dinner":

 

For what it's worth I'd only call one of the men I dated in the past truly addled; he was an alcoholic gambler among other things, but he sure was 'good at one thing' as some posters like to put it. Age 30 at the time as a matter of fact.

 

As a man, what would your thoughts about the female poster be on reading that?

 

Re the rest of your post, I think I caught another post of yours where you were talking about treating a woman well when you feel she deserves it. Along the lines, perhaps, of "I've known her a while, we've formed a bond - she means more to me than someone I'm casually dating, and I acknowledge this in the way I behave towards her."

 

Which I doubt many people could have a problem with. I think when it comes to men and the feelings they have towards women, a velvet fist in an iron glove is infinitely preferable to an iron fist in a velvet glove. Or indeed, an iron fist in an iron glove. The trouble is that it's not always easy to differentiate between 1 and 3.

 

The part about my female clients.....sure. They should have guessed what they were getting into. Maybe they did, and they entered the marriage with the specific intention of getting divorced later on. For financial purposes. People don't tend to confess such things - not even to their lawyers. Probably especially not to their lawyers.

 

The thing is that OP is presenting a rosy picture of men being able to wait until their 40s then marry a woman in her 20s and live happily ever after. It can happen, of course. My brother married a woman 9 years younger than himself, and (knock on wood) it seems a very happy marriage. But that's not the kind of age gap the OP's thinking of.

 

He's talking 15 plus years. That's pretty major. Enough to be classed as a generation gap, I'd say. Regardless of your gender, you get involved with someone that much younger and you risk them starting to feel that they're missing out. Wanting to spend more time with their own peer group. Wanting to have sex with someone of their own peer group. I think it's a high enough risk that anyone planning marriage on the "I'll wait until I hit my 40s, then marry someone young, firm and fertile" should consider their own ability to cope with such an eventuality.

[movingonandon]

^^^

You should start a counselling business, or at least radio talk show in addition to the legal career. At least I find your posts remarcably therapeutic

[Taramere]

^^^

You should start a counselling business, or at least radio talk show in addition to the legal career. At least I find your posts remarcably therapeutic

 

Haha. Is that a nice way of saying they send you to sleep? Re the legal career - out of all that, and very happy about it. You have to have a certain temperament, and I didn't.