SirDingleus Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I don't think there are any surprises here. Women at least for a relationship are thinking long term, can this man take care of me and a family. Wealth = yes. The hot loser is your slumming times. Men want an attractive woman however, simply because we already are brought up to take care of ourselves. So what is the woman going to provide materialistically for us? The sugar mama being the rare case. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 SO unless you have done ALL that day in day out 24/7 .... Have you? If not the same caution should apply. Link to post Share on other sites
allina Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 In addition to money, men that are go getters, successful and powerful are attractive. A man with a good position in the workplace walks tall and proud. He knows how to go after what he wants, he can beat others out for a job he wants. I'm sorry but I can't say the same about a man who sells shoes at Macy's or something, even if you're not taking money in to account. A man that has some retail, service job is viewed as weaker, he has to serve others, jump through hoops for others. It's like he got left behind in in the race of life, he didn't win. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 ... It is possible to go to Uni, build a career and have time to go out in the evening you know. So going out in the evening is your concept of a viable long term relationship then? Link to post Share on other sites
CommitmentPhobe Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So going out in the evening is your concept of a viable long term relationship then? Having something interesting to talk about when you're going out in the evening is my concept of a viable relationship, not just having some skirt on my arm, that gets boring real quick. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 In addition to money, men that are go getters, successful and powerful are attractive. A man with a good position in the workplace walks tall and proud. He knows how to go after what he wants, he can beat others out for a job he wants. I'm sorry but I can't say the same about a man who sells shoes at Macy's or something, even if you're not taking money in to account. A man that has some retail, service job is viewed as weaker, he has to serve others, jump through hoops for others. It's like he got left behind in in the race of life, he didn't win. Yup. Seeing a guy who earns a lot is essentially a shortcut telling a woman a lot about how fit he is to win at life and by extension how good a mate he has the potential to be. Obviously a lot more weigh in than that ultimately but this was about initial attraction. Like a friend recommending a product, the visible signs of success it life are a resume. I just don't see where all the anger comes from, I think it's completely logical and natural. Seven billion humans say a lot about how well our mating instincts seem to be working. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Have you? If not the same caution should apply. No I have not been in the shoes of a STAHM BUT I am not so pompous and detached as to say "well I take care of myself as a single woman and it's not so hard, what's the big deal about being a STAHM? I have plenty of time for hobbies in my day if I choose to" That is what you said. See, I think this whole thing about guys of a certain age being attracted only to much younger women has to do with them not getting experience or much of "it" between the age 20-30. At some point, you get bored of having a bit of skirt, it's not all it's cracked up to be, so to keep that as your goal in life is rather sad. If you've been around a bit, at some stage you just accept that that phase of your life is other, and in a lot of ways you're glad it is. I can't imagine spending my time searching for my long lost days where I didn't go out there and knock em dead. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt. Don't need to do it again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Having something interesting to talk about when you're going out in the evening is my concept of a viable relationship, not just having some skirt on my arm, that gets boring real quick. So you're up for some fascinating stories of fun and games in the accountants office rather than a discussion about a current novel or world affairs? Maybe a discussion of her mastery of violin isn't as good for you as hearing what happened today when the terminals crashed at the bank? No accounting (so to speak) for taste I guess. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 See, I think this whole thing about guys of a certain age being attracted only to much younger women has to do with them not getting experience or much of "it" between the age 20-30. At some point, you get bored of having a bit of skirt, it's not all it's cracked up to be, so to keep that as your goal in life is rather sad. If you've been around a bit, at some stage you just accept that that phase of your life is other, and in a lot of ways you're glad it is. I can't imagine spending my time searching for my long lost days where I didn't go out there and knock em dead. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt. Don't need to do it again. I see it like that too!! You CAN see it like that because you had your rockstar youth years where you partied and live life and had anything you wanted in terms of getting women and playing the field, I've had a rock star youth too, I travelled a lot and had a lot of experiences that I would NOT have had if I would have been married at 25. I had the chance at 24 to be married but I was not ready for it. The love experiences and overall experiences I've had since totally cement that. I can't imagine my life any other way. When a man in his 40's is obssessed with the landing the young inexperienced thing, he was more than likely the nerdy loser in college who couldn't get laid if his life depended on it. He went out with the good enough girl but always dreamt of meeting the "dream" girl. Where as a guy like CM, who has lived the life has had that might be looking for something a little different speed now. I am looking for something of a different speed now. It's natural it's called maturing and living each phase of your life as it was intended, my 20's were for partying hard and living life and getting my career going, now I want to start a different phase of my life. If I had been married at 24 I would have been divorced at 28 I was too much of a wild kid to be tied down that young. And if there is any stage in your life when you should be doing all the crazy stuff is when you are 24 not when you are 40 and trying to recapture your youth like some men are. Link to post Share on other sites
allina Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Yup. Seeing a guy who earns a lot is essentially a shortcut telling a woman a lot about how fit he is to win at life and by extension how good a mate he has the potential to be. Obviously a lot more weigh in than that ultimately but this was about initial attraction. Like a friend recommending a product, the visible signs of success it life are a resume. I just don't see where all the anger comes from, I think it's completely logical and natural. Seven billion humans say a lot about how well our mating instincts seem to be working. I don't know where the anger comes from. I thought you replied to me with anger when I said that I wouldn't be very willing to date an uneducated, broke man. I tried to explain that it wasn't just about money, but some guy kept saying that it was because all women need to be taken care of financially. And I'm not dismissing the fact that money matters. I don't see why women are called shallow gold diggers if we don't want a man we have to support financially. It would be a pain to not be able to go on vacation because your man can't afford to chip in, to not be able to buy a house because your man can't afford anywhere near the mortgage you can afford etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 No I have not been in the shoes of a STAHM Is it then your contention that being a SAHM is less time consuming for someone who has a BS in say, business management than for someone who has spent her life learning to care for a household? Link to post Share on other sites
CommitmentPhobe Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So you're up for some fascinating stories of fun and games in the accountants office rather than a discussion about a current novel or world affairs? Maybe a discussion of her mastery of violin isn't as good for you as hearing what happened today when the terminals crashed at the bank? No accounting (so to speak) for taste I guess. Dude, being an accountant is not mutually exclusive to knowing about world affairs and mastering an instrument. Take some of my exes - a lawyer and grade 8 pianist.. A scientist and a grade 8 violinist . Hell I have an ex who is a social researcher and writes published erotic fiction, she was fun I can tell you. I know loads and loads of women that combine a really interesting social life with an interesting career quite effortlessly, and I have many mates that do that too. It's not an either/or situation. I don't know where you have this idea from. In fact if anything career people tend to have more of these social skills than non-career people, it's something you learn at Uni. Link to post Share on other sites
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Erm, what else are they supposed to do with their youth? According to you they're supposed to spend it letting a guy take care of them?? It is possible to go to Uni, build a career and have time to go out in the evening you know. Actually I'm not a commitment phobe at all. I used to be a few years ago, definitely not now. And funnily enough, when I was, it wasn't older career women I was banging. But I'll leave those type of women to sponge of the type of guy that can't offer them anything else. Well i think it is a waste of time trying to prove that one or the other women are "better". My view are simply that there are tradeoffs, neither way is not too good. Career woman =================== Pros: has money (won't cause your lifestyle to take a hit --> unless she stops working! in which case she's NOT a real career woman), probably has a better sense of self (not necessarily!), probably more stimulating (both intellectually and sexually) Cons: older, feels entitled (to constant stimulation), demanding (i.e. less likely to put the relationship first), will probably not be such a great mom (though not necessarily) Traditionally oriented woman ==================== Pros: younger, wants and will take good care of kids, more likely to be loyal, more likely to put comfort in the relationship first Cons: probably less stimulating, has less or no money, relies too much on her man to make decisions; may adhere a little too much to traditional gender roles; Or something like that. The bucket of traits can vary immensely, but they are different. For me personally, the scales tip towards the more traditional girl. (I think I've already found her. I should marry her soon and then concentrate on my plans for world domination ). The worst of course is the kind combining the worst features of both And the best of course is the one combining the best of both kinds - a'la Michelle Obama. I don't know **** about her, but that's the ideal vibe I'd like to see coming out of a woman. Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Who says it doesn't? I much prefer women that have a career, esp a creative one. I think it gives them an extra dimension, and I don't know where you get the idea that it saps their youth? What are they supposed to do sit at home all day making themselves look pretty? I'm 33 and my last couple of girlfriends were a decade younger than me. It's all very fun at first, but to make it last, I way prefer women on my wavelength and that can give me a bit of challenge. I can easy get a girl that age, it's not even a challenge, and it's nothing to do with money, but it just doesn't work. See, I think this whole thing about guys of a certain age being attracted only to much younger women has to do with them not getting experience or much of "it" between the age 20-30. At some point, you get bored of having a bit of skirt, it's not all it's cracked up to be, so to keep that as your goal in life is rather sad. If you've been around a bit, at some stage you just accept that that phase of your life is other, and in a lot of ways you're glad it is. I can't imagine spending my time searching for my long lost days where I didn't go out there and knock em dead. Been there, done it, bought the t-shirt. Don't need to do it again. On the genetic/childbearing front, I don't believe that s a younger woman is better either. I can't imagine bringing up a kid with a woman that hasn't experienced a career or has a sense of independence. Well blow me down, CommitmentPhobe. I'm impressed! And I can tell you've "been around" as you put it. It's obvious in this post. You know what you're doing. I don't sense any insecurity in you about women. And here I thought you were one of the misogynists... I think maybe I was wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 I don't know where the anger comes from. I thought you replied to me with anger when I said that I wouldn't be very willing to date an uneducated, broke man. I tried to explain that it wasn't just about money, but some guy kept saying that it was because all women need to be taken care of financially. And I'm not dismissing the fact that money matters. I don't see why women are called shallow gold diggers if we don't want a man we have to support financially. It would be a pain to not be able to go on vacation because your man can't afford to chip in, to not be able to buy a house because your man can't afford anywhere near the mortgage you can afford etc. You probably have me confused with someone else; a lot of guys are bitter simply because they sort of suck at life and can't live up to the expectations a lot of woman have now days. I just accept those expectations as healthy and natural and try my best to live up to what I view as my natural role in a human pair. I just look for a woman with a similar attitude, as do many other high achieving men. In return we seem to get a lot of hate. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 Dude, being an accountant is not mutually exclusive to knowing about world affairs and mastering an instrument. Of course not, however every second spent doing one thing cannot be re-spent doing something else, all people get only finite time. To gain one thing, something else must be sacrificed. Simple really. The question is, what was surrendered to achieve that Masters Degree? A significant slice of life went into that, what got dropped in it's stead? Link to post Share on other sites
allina Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 You probably have me confused with someone else; a lot of guys are bitter simply because they sort of suck at life and can't live up to the expectations a lot of woman have now days. I just accept those expectations as healthy and natural and try my best to live up to what I view as my natural role in a human pair. I just look for a woman with a similar attitude, as do many other high achieving men. In return we seem to get a lot of hate. Oh, sorry I guess it wasn't you. And I'm absolutely all about bringing to the table the things you want others to bring Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Is it then your contention that being a SAHM is less time consuming for someone who has a BS in say, business management than for someone who has spent her life learning to care for a household? No my contention is that it could be MORE time consuming to be a SAHM in terms of getting bogged down with mostly unrewarding tasks in comparison to someone who is doing business management or it could even be the same, but that is not so much the point. But as a SAHM your days aren't always going to be spent doing things that are most rewarding or that stimulate the mind. Where as at least at a job with all the crap you have to deal with you still get to stimulate your mind or use your creativity PLUS still have a semblance of freedom in your day and you get to interact with other like minded adults to solve problems and issues that affect other's lives. It's a little different than cleaning cat vomit from the carpet and changing poopie pants all day long, ya know? I think a lot of men really underestimate how much women give up to be a stay at home, because they have this image that women sit around all day watching soaps and eating chocolate. I am sure some women do but I am not discounting that. Link to post Share on other sites
movingonandon Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I just accept those expectations as healthy and natural and try my best to live up to what I view as my natural role in a human pair. High expectations are fine as long as they are *backed up*, credibly, which includes more than 'being cute', that's all. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 High expectations are fine as long as they are *backed up*, credibly, which includes more than 'being cute', that's all. I agree, but a resume that includes a long laundry list of domestic skills along with a life that shows motivation to be a good wife are a great start. Link to post Share on other sites
CommitmentPhobe Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Of course not, however every second spent doing one thing cannot be re-spent doing something else, all people get only finite time. To gain one thing, something else must be sacrificed. Simple really. The question is, what was surrendered to achieve that Masters Degree? A significant slice of life went into that, what got dropped in it's stead? Well of course while you're doing one thing you can't be doing another, but then getting a Masters degree is a worthwhile pursuit, builds a sense of esteem and worth, get to meet interesting people, improves social skills etc. Plus you do get free time to do other things you know. I still can't figure out what was supposed to be surrendered here in it's place? Doing make up? Was I supposed to be working on my 6 pack all the time instead of doing mine? See I totally get why a woman would find what you're saying offensive. Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 No my contention is ... I think a lot of men really underestimate how much women give up to be a stay at home, because they have this image that women sit around all day watching soaps and eating chocolate. I am sure some women do but I am not discounting that. Not seeing what this has to do with the topic. Getting past that ... Being a good wife is a lot of work. You do not consider that work worthwhile. Therefore you are a better mate? That logic is a bit twisted. Why would a high earning man want to marry someone with that attitude over a younger, prettier and potentially more interesting woman? Link to post Share on other sites
Author clv0116 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 See I totally get why a woman would find what you're saying offensive. A lot of older women like guys that will supplicate them so I guess it's a match made in heaven. Happy for you. Enjoy that. Seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Not seeing what this has to do with the topic. Getting past that ... Whaaa? you asked me this: Is it then your contention that being a SAHM is less time consuming for someone who has a BS in say, business management than for someone who has spent her life learning to care for a household? therefore I responded this: No my contention is that it could be MORE time consuming to be a SAHM in terms of getting bogged down with mostly unrewarding tasks in comparison to someone who is doing business management or it could even be the same, but that is not so much the point. But as a SAHM your days aren't always going to be spent doing things that are most rewarding or that stimulate the mind. Where as at least at a job with all the crap you have to deal with you still get to stimulate your mind or use your creativity PLUS still have a semblance of freedom in your day and you get to interact with other like minded adults to solve problems and issues that affect other's lives. It's a little different than cleaning cat vomit from the carpet and changing poopie pants all day long, ya know? That's what it has to do with the topic. Link to post Share on other sites
Tomcat33 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 A lot of older women like guys that will supplicate them so I guess it's a match made in heaven. Happy isn't that the EXACT same reason older dudes choose really young and inexperienced women to wed? We all want praise, and someone who will worship us, don't kid yourself cowboy! But in turn I also want someone I can worship. Worship comes with respect, I can't respect a man my age who doesn't have any sort of drive. Sorry. Link to post Share on other sites
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