Doomed to a Solitary Life

[purgatori]

I am 27 years of age, and have never been on a formal date. Up to my late teens, there were a few girls (some of whom I was quite attracted to), who showed some degree of interest in me, but I was too shy to and socially inept to respond in an appropriate manner to their advances (if that is, indeed, what they were) and progress to a romantic relationship.

 

Over the years, the attention I used to receive from the opposite sex has waned to such an extent that I'm pretty much invisible now. The 'problem' is that I have always been very effeminate, and only really consider myself to be marginally male (although even this is too much for me). While this doesn't seem to have been too much of an obstacle when I was younger, my male peers became ever more manly, while I remained... me... and women's expectations adjusted in accordance with the typical course of male development.

 

I could certainly pretend to be more 'butch' than I really am, and put some hours in at the gym and whatnot in order to buff up (at least to such an extent as would be possible for me, which I do not think would be very much), and do all the heteronormative stuff, but that would be a complete betrayal of my personal identity, and would only lead to more misery than I currently endure. I cannot stand men, or even the quality of 'masculinity', it repulses me, and the fact that women are attracted to them and to it is hard enough for me to stomach, let-alone comprehend, without becoming the very thing I hate and living a lie. Even as it stands, I don't know if I could assume the "male" role in a relationship that a woman would expect of me, or whether I would ever be 'ok' with her liking me, given that I am at least nominally male.

 

And yet, I really adore women, and have a very affectionate nature; a nature which has been dying a slow and painful death for many years now. I suffer from chronic depression, and none of the pyschotherapeutic or medical interventions that I have been the recipient of have done anything to alleviate the condition, and I know it is precisely because my solitary life-situation is simple too great a 'stressor' to be ameliorated, either by altering neurotransmitter levels in my brain, or by adopting cognitive/behavioral strategies designed to foster a more positive outlook.

 

To add to this, nobody I have tried to communicate my situation to (even my therapists), have really been able to understand it. The number of those whom I have confided in, but yet failed to understand, has reached such a point where I can only assume that the failure lies, either, in my abilitiy to communicate, or the strangeness of the situation itself. There are people with social anxiety, and heterosocial anxiety -- both of which I suffer from -- but providing they can overcome these hurdles, they can function in a heterotypical manner, and should experience no difficulty in forming relationships. There are people who suffer from gender dysphoria, but they are usually homosexual with regard to their genetic sex, whereas I am not. Being a student of psychology, I have scoured the relevant research areas, and still not found a group of individuals, or even a single case, which fits the parameters of my own... thus leaving me clueless as to whether something can be done (since I can't imagine it myself), or even just if there are others like me out there who just aren't suited in any sense to this whole "battle of the sexes" thing, and even reject it.

[Shnuggles]

You think too much. You are who you are. Stop comparing everyone to yourself or whatever and get on with it. Look at your good points and not the bad. Be happy with who you are despite what others may think.

 

Go to the gym ya big pansy! If the girls, gay guys, old ladies and skinny\fat people I see can do it then you can too! The gym isn't about big, hairy men sweating in tracksuit pants. Its about staying healthy.

 

Seriously, take a breath, smile and live. You're young and too smart to be doing this to yourself.

[purgatori]

You think too much. You are who you are. Stop comparing everyone to yourself or whatever and get on with it. Look at your good points and not the bad. Be happy with who you are despite what others may think.

 

Go to the gym ya big pansy! If the girls, gay guys, old ladies and skinny\fat people I see can do it then you can too! The gym isn't about big, hairy men sweating in tracksuit pants. Its about staying healthy.

 

Seriously, take a breath, smile and live. You're young and too smart to be doing this to yourself.

 

It's amazing how often people have told me that I think too much, particularly in relation to this topic. It makes me think that you, and they, might be on to something, even though as far as I can see, I am simply making analyzing my situation -- and not unrealistically. I couldn't care less about what other men think of me, and I wish that were the case with women as well (and for the majority, it is), but unfortunately, what they think of of me has definite outcomes for my personal life. Not that I'd mind being ignored, or even despised, by women so much if it weren't for the fact that they, conversely, valorize the very type of men that I hate the most.

 

As for the gym, it's not really my scene. I eat well and exercise regularly, but I try to avoid the types of exercise which are likely to generate muscle-mass; it was for this reason that I put my swimming routine on hold for a period of months at one stage.

 

Perhaps my perspective is severely compromised with regard to my own situation, because I can't actually see how my situation is of my own devising, as you seem to imply (no, I'm not being sarcastic). Although I could probably stand to ruminate less about some of the things that bring me a lot of pain, such as women throwing themselves before the macho jerks that I hate so much, but my life-situation is contingent upon female mate-preferences over which I exert no control, and upon my own nature over which I possess a limited amount of control. I thank you for your kind words, but it's hard to maintain a positive outlook when you know that circumstances are such that you will always be alone, when that is not what you want.

 

I probably sound frightfully neurotic, but I can just "be in the moment", as they say, and bliss out for awhile, but there is no lasting reprieve from the loneliness and sadness that I feel. If you hadn't eaten in few days, and I gave you a million dollars, you might be temporarily distracted from your hunger, but no matter how jubilant your mood, your hunger would still not have been sated, and will return in a short amount of time... and so it is for me and feeling lonely.

[StrawberryStrawberry]

It's too harsh to bring down 'doomed to solitary life forever' on anyone (well maybe except those who already are there?)

There are macho guys and sensitive types and sulking men &c. There are a lot of guys in the world with varying personalities and your unique personality is just one.

 

If I may be so presumptuous to say I can understand you a bit. Because I think It wouldn't feel very encouraging to have people you're interested in not interested in you and would go after someone else of a different sort. Macho men are what's in nowadays (haha) and that's why you may feel you're doomed to a solitary life. I don't know words to comfort, but I think that 27 is a bit too young to doom yourself forever... You haven't just met the person to satisfy you and would love you exactly the way you are. I'm so sorry if this reply may not be of help and may slight you in any way.

[purgatori]

It's too harsh to bring down 'doomed to solitary life forever' on anyone (well maybe except those who already are there?)

There are macho guys and sensitive types and sulking men &c. There are a lot of guys in the world with varying personalities and your unique personality is just one.

 

If I may be so presumptuous to say I can understand you a bit. Because I think It wouldn't feel very encouraging to have people you're interested in not interested in you and would go after someone else of a different sort. Macho men are what's in nowadays (haha) and that's why you may feel you're doomed to a solitary life. I don't know words to comfort, but I think that 27 is a bit too young to doom yourself forever... You haven't just met the person to satisfy you and would love you exactly the way you are. I'm so sorry if this reply may not be of help and may slight you in any way.

 

No, no, you haven't slighted me in the slightest And it's actually refreshing to hear someone admit that "macho men" are the in-thing, as far as female preferences go. Ordinarily, I hear some blather (well-meaning blather, but blather all the same), about how women have different preferences and not all of them like the super macho types -- which may be true to some extent, but my own experience, as well as the research data indicates that the majority of women tend to prefer atavistic males, and the further down the masculine/feminine scale you go, the less women there are who are interested. I am very far toward the feminine end of the scale on both physiological and mental traits, and I actually like this about myself (although I would rather that I was 100% female instead), but there's no doubting that women don't.

 

Add to this that I am very selective, and am only interested in a serious, long-term relationship with my 'dreamgirl', so to speak, and my chances begin to look vanishingly thin, especially given my other foibles that I haven't even listed yet, and my utter lack of any dating or relationship experience thus far. Nature is a probability wave, and in terms of me entering into a loving relationship with a woman, the probability is not high, and hence why I regard myself as being doomed, I'm afraid

[lord alfred douglas]

When you say that you wish you were a woman does that mean you fantasize about having a sex change?

[lord alfred douglas]

It's too harsh to bring down 'doomed to solitary life forever' on anyone (well maybe except those who already are there?)

There are macho guys and sensitive types and sulking men &c. There are a lot of guys in the world with varying personalities and your unique personality is just one.

 

If I may be so presumptuous to say I can understand you a bit. Because I think It wouldn't feel very encouraging to have people you're interested in not interested in you and would go after someone else of a different sort. Macho men are what's in nowadays (haha) and that's why you may feel you're doomed to a solitary life. I don't know words to comfort, but I think that 27 is a bit too young to doom yourself forever... You haven't just met the person to satisfy you and would love you exactly the way you are. I'm so sorry if this reply may not be of help and may slight you in any way.

I don't think macho men are in these days. The characteristics most women seem to desire on these boards seem to be more boyish than masculine. Look at how many women want their men to depilate all body hair, not lose any hair, be thin as opposed to muscular

 

Macho men were in in years past, but that isn't the fashion now. Women want to take charge and have a human satisfier toy

[KRN1126]

One thing i realized is, that sometimes you have to go outside of who you are to get what you want. Take a risk with yourself!!! Do something that you would normally ever do like, if you see a pretty girl smile and approach her and say "i've never seen something so beautiful". If she plays you, who cares!!! what's the chances of you running into her again! I know, we all hate rejection!!! But theres gonna be some doors slammed in our face b4 one actually opens!!!!

[purgatori]

When you say that you wish you were a woman does that mean you fantasize about having a sex change?

 

Not as such, no. This may be a somewhat controversial opinion, but I don't think that undergoing surgery, and taking hormones can really make you a woman. I am resigned to my biological sex, but only because I don't think there is any way of really changing it. If there were some magical means whereby I could be completely and utterly transformed into a woman, I would certainly utilize it -- on the condition that I would remain attracted to women, and not men, however.

 

In addition, when I do fantasize about being with a woman in a romantic capacity (usually the actress Sarah Michelle Gellar ), I always envisage myself as a woman also. This is the only way I can imagine, and the only way I am comfortable imagining my feelings being reciprocated by a woman. If I am me, as I am now, in my fantasies (or even dreams), then the fantasy takes the form of me being near the woman, but only in an unrequited love sort of capacity.

 

I don't think macho men are in these days. The characteristics most women seem to desire on these boards seem to be more boyish than masculine. Look at how many women want their men to depilate all body hair, not lose any hair, be thin as opposed to muscular.

The research, and my own experience don't really seem to bear that out -- and the preference for atavistic males is probably even more even active when it comes to the domain of character traits. The admission of the "woman's gaze" into mainstream media has meant that men have become objects of desire in a way that they were not before, and there has actually been an increase in the "beefcake" aesthetic as far as bodies go, and masculine faces with about 5% femininity are also preferred. In other words, woman are a lot more assertive about what they want in a man these days, and it really does seem to be (on average), the buff guy with just a hint of femininity. What the appeal of such creatures might be, is certainly beyond me, but it does make sense from an evolutionary standpoint. Not that I would have fared any better in a previous epoch, but the whole "metrosexual revolution" and whatnot has not improved matters for me, because I am comprehensively effeminate, it's not just a surface thing where I pay $200 for a haircut or spend 3 hours preening myself in the bathroom each morning... for me, it's far more ingrained than simply following a trend toward better grooming.

 

One thing i realized is, that sometimes you have to go outside of who you are to get what you want. Take a risk with yourself!!! Do something that you would normally ever do like, if you see a pretty girl smile and approach her and say "i've never seen something so beautiful". If she plays you, who cares!!! what's the chances of you running into her again! I know, we all hate rejection!!! But theres gonna be some doors slammed in our face b4 one actually opens!!!!

Not that I have ever been so forward, but I have been humiliated a couple of times when I thought I was getting close to someone, only to realize that however sincere their praise about me being a "nice guy" and all the rest of it might have been, I was never even qualified as a potential romantic interest because I am so far outside the range of what they regard as being male, let-alone what they like in a man. Even if I had the confidence to do what you propose, it wouldn't last long because the peels of laughter that such an absurd spectacle would elicit from a woman would soon douse said confidence. I think that you're advice would be great for a "regular guy" to act upon, but not me

[dissuasion]

wow you seem to be in a pretty unique, complicated situation. I'd have to say it's true, many women aren't attracted to 'overly feminine?' guys, but not all of them are like that. I know this isn't really the response you're looking for, but out of millions of women on this planet, there's definitely going to be some out there that'd find your affectionate personality intriguing :3 What I'm curious about is that if you were in a relationship with a woman, how would you go about the topic of sex? Would you do it, or can you not stand the 'male role' you'd have to play in it?

[purgatori]

wow you seem to be in a pretty unique, complicated situation. I'd have to say it's true, many women aren't attracted to 'overly feminine?' guys, but not all of them are like that. I know this isn't really the response you're looking for, but out of millions of women on this planet, there's definitely going to be some out there that'd find your affectionate personality intriguing :3 What I'm curious about is that if you were in a relationship with a woman, how would you go about the topic of sex? Would you do it, or can you not stand the 'male role' you'd have to play in it?

 

Oh yes, you're right: a normal distribution of female mate preferences predicts that there must be some women out there who like extremely feminine men. But they would be a tiny minority, which lessens the chance of the following sequence to occur (as probability must necessarily decrease with each successive step): (a) I meet one of these women, (b) I like her, © she likes me, (d) she still likes me after getting to know her and vice-versa, and (e) things work out well enough between us to allow for the formation of a stable relationship.

 

One thing that might impact on the last phase is the topic you raised at the end of your post, namely sex. And to answer your question I would have to say from where I am situated right now, I would have to say that I most definitely would not be comfortable assuming the male role during intercourse. To me, the male libido and even the very nature of coitus is inextricably bound up, to a greater or lesser extent, with domination and aggression, and are thus incompatible not only with my self-identity, but also my definition of love. As previously indicated, I would also experience discomfort at the thought of being desired me, as a man, being desired by a woman (and this would not be limited merely to intercourse, either). I would be perfectly happy, the accident of my birth being what it is, to be in a relationship without any sexual intercourse at all, so long as we shared other forms of affectionate contact. If I loved someone enough though, then some way might be found to transcend the aforementioned difficulties.

[Serph]

Welcome to being a young man. A girl no matter how fat, ugly or obnoxious always has a ton of guys in her entourage fantasizing about her. She could sleep with hundreds of men in a year if she only wanted to! She has it 10000x times easier than guys when it comes to finding a partner of the opposite sex, and is only celibate when she chooses to be, while many young men are sometimes almost inexplicably left to rot alone, without generating any interest from girls no matter how often they go out and how confident they try to be.

 

Yay.

 

I can only give you one piece of advice: when you try to get advice on the Internet, only listen to what the men say. Take what you think would work best for you, what can apply to your situations. Sadly, girls can't understand what it's like to never be shown interest and to be desperate, and they don't have your manly needs at heart. Disregard anything that a female says, they're remarkably clueless and naive and will mostly always tell you what you need NOT to do.

 

I'm not single right now but I definitely understand your state of mind and I sincerely feel for you. Be brave, bro. I wish you can find some source of pride or confidence in you and use this to become someone who's a truly interesting and flamboyant individual in the real world.

[Green]

wow I think your writing is very interesting. I don't think you are doomed in my mind some good virtual reality should be out atleast within the next ten years that will let you become a girl on vr and have relationships. As far as finding a girl to be affectionate with it would be very dificult for some one such as yourself but are you even trying? sounds like your just worried about being rejected? is being confident to much of a male quality for you? go out there and start actualy asking out girls and chatting them up and having conversations

[Rerun]

 

If you hadn't eaten in few days, and I gave you a million dollars, you might be temporarily distracted from your hunger, but no matter how jubilant your mood, your hunger would still not have been sated, and will return in a short amount of time... and so it is for me and feeling lonely.

 

If I hadn't eaten in a few days and you gave me a million bucks, the first thing I'd do is get some dadgum food.

 

Think about it, man. I've got a huge appetite. A million dollars wouldn't distract me from my gut.

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

[purgatori]

Welcome to being a young man. A girl no matter how fat, ugly or obnoxious always has a ton of guys in her entourage fantasizing about her. She could sleep with hundreds of men in a year if she only wanted to! She has it 10000x times easier than guys when it comes to finding a partner of the opposite sex, and is only celibate when she chooses to be, while many young men are sometimes almost inexplicably left to rot alone, without generating any interest from girls no matter how often they go out and how confident they try to be.

 

Yay.

 

I can only give you one piece of advice: when you try to get advice on the Internet, only listen to what the men say. Take what you think would work best for you, what can apply to your situations. Sadly, girls can't understand what it's like to never be shown interest and to be desperate, and they don't have your manly needs at heart. Disregard anything that a female says, they're remarkably clueless and naive and will mostly always tell you what you need NOT to do.

 

I'm not single right now but I definitely understand your state of mind and I sincerely feel for you. Be brave, bro. I wish you can find some source of pride or confidence in you and use this to become someone who's a truly interesting and flamboyant individual in the real world.

 

I am not your 'bro', nor do I feel any kinship or solidarity with men in general. If I had it my way, women would be completely uninterested in the male sex.

 

wow I think your writing is very interesting. I don't think you are doomed in my mind some good virtual reality should be out atleast within the next ten years that will let you become a girl on vr and have relationships. As far as finding a girl to be affectionate with it would be very dificult for some one such as yourself but are you even trying? sounds like your just worried about being rejected? is being confident to much of a male quality for you? go out there and start actualy asking out girls and chatting them up and having conversations

I am hoping that the first part is a joke Am I even trying...? No, not really, I have to admit. As alluded to earlier, there have been a few times, mostly around my teens/early 20s, when girls either approached me, or something of a friendship developed. In the cases where they approached me, and I found them to be attractive, I usually succeeded in scaring them off fairly quickly. This was likely due to a combination of my social skills, which are lacking at the best of times, and that I would always assume that either I was misinterpreting them, or they were setting me up for some kind of prank, -- because it was so difficult for me to believe that a girl could actually like me -- and so I behaved in a very defensive manner in some cases. All of that stopped happening after awhile, however, and occasionally I would strike up a friendship (a very rare occurrence itself) with some girl that I liked, and oftentimes would think that maybe it was going somewhere, only to discover that she was into the macho jerks whom I so despised; at which point I would terminate the friendship. Although I've never actually asked a girl out as such, at least not on a formal date, I have attempted to "chat up" one or two, but doing so always made me feel sick with myself... like I was becoming the very thing that I hate, and yes, that was partially because I was embracing the confidence/cockyness which if not an exclusively male trait, is certainly a one that manifests only with vulgarity in the male sex, in my opinion.

 

Unfortunately, the current state of psychological research seems to support the widely-held notion that women really do prefer to be pursued/wooed in a vigorous manner, as they take this an indication of the strength of someone's desire. Even if I were successful in doing that, it would mean betraying my identity, and principles (hell, even being involved with a woman as a man is a betrayal of my principles), and if our theoretical women were to fall for me, it really wouldn't be "me" at all. That's why I'd always hoped that I would one day enter into a relationship that had begun as a friendship; because at least then, she could get to know something of the real me, and I wouldn't have to put adopt some sham persona. As far as strategies go, however, revealing the "real me" to a woman appears to be immensely counterproductive.

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

 

I knew someone would 'bite' eventually

[You'reasian]

You think too much. You are who you are. Stop comparing everyone to yourself or whatever and get on with it. Look at your good points and not the bad. Be happy with who you are despite what others may think.

 

Go to the gym ya big pansy! If the girls, gay guys, old ladies and skinny\fat people I see can do it then you can too! The gym isn't about big, hairy men sweating in tracksuit pants. Its about staying healthy.

 

Seriously, take a breath, smile and live. You're young and too smart to be doing this to yourself.

 

I agree with this post.

[Green]

Have you tried internet personal adds? there is surely a girl out there at a minimum looking for a friend like you. And I also Like Buffey the Vampire slayer and Sarah I even started watching the show Doll House and what I will say is he gives the women alot of manly atributes so even though you think of yourself as feminin maybe like buffey you can give yourself the power to get the job done because I think you might be happier if you found a person to be romantic with.

[Els]

Purgatori, how exactly would you consider yourself to be effeminate? And what qualities do you look for in that 'dream girl' that you say you are searching for?

[purgatori]

Have you tried internet personal adds? there is surely a girl out there at a minimum looking for a friend like you. And I also Like Buffey the Vampire slayer and Sarah I even started watching the show Doll House and what I will say is he gives the women alot of manly atributes so even though you think of yourself as feminin maybe like buffey you can give yourself the power to get the job done because I think you might be happier if you found a person to be romantic with.

 

I haven't tried personal ads, no. At various times, I have had a look on some of those internet-dating sites, and looking the sort of profiles listed on there, I wondered where I would fit Some of them are quite sleazy as well. Although I would not expect much anyway, it would be something I would be willing to try if I could find the right sort of site, i.e. one that caters more to the friendship side of things.

 

How is Doll House, by the way? Any good?

 

Purgatori, how exactly would you consider yourself to be effeminate? And what qualities do you look for in that 'dream girl' that you say you are searching for?

My appearance (I was often mistaken for a girl when I was younger, and now people think I'm a LOT younger than I really am), my mannerisms, my voice, the way I am highly emotional and affectionate and far more interested in intimacy than sexual intercourse, I don't share any typical male interests or hobbies, I don't enjoy the company of men especially when they are raucous or loutish, in conversations and interpersonal interactions in general I am receptive rather than controlling or dominating, competitiveness and the acquisition of status symbols doesn't interest me, I never try to assert any kind of "male privilege", politically and philosophically speaking I am a radical feminist, my sensuality is essentially feminine, I have always tended to look toward female rather than male role models and envisage myself as female when engaging in phantasy, etc. etc. etc.

 

As for what qualities I look for in my "dream girl", see the aforementioned SMG To be more specific though, she is someone who is very intelligent and funny -- and has a great, unaffected laugh, kind and gentle but will always stand up for herself, sophisticated and well-read with strong interests in art, science, philosophy, or literature, passionate about something (whether it be her work, or a cause of some sort), is able to appreciate the beauty of women (inside and out) and (ideally) isn't too wild about men (esp. physically), cute/petite and breathtakingly beautiful. It'd be nice if she was a bit of a nerd, too, because I certainly am

[Els]

To be very honest, yes, I think that both your traits and requirements do narrow the pool for you a lot. It would not be impossible to find a woman, but it'd be much harder for you than for the average male.

 

If you want to date (nothing wrong with being perpetually single, but you seem not to want to be so...), you really might want to consider not making your requirements so strict, for one thing. What happens if you find a girl who's intelligent, funny, sophisticated, well-read.. but maybe not so beautiful and DOES like men? And what happens if she's interested in you, with all your effeminate qualities? Would you turn her down?

 

Also, are you proud of all your traits? Or would you consider changing some if you could? This part: 'I don't share any typical male interests or hobbies, I don't enjoy the company of men especially when they are raucous or loutish, in conversations and interpersonal interactions in general I am receptive rather than controlling or dominating, competitiveness and the acquisition of status symbols doesn't interest me, I never try to assert any kind of "male privilege", politically and philosophically speaking I am a radical feminist'I can see many women liking... not everyone wants cursing, unbathed, raucous truck-drivers for a partner. However, your feminine mannerisms and such, would you LIKE to change them? Or do you consider them an essential part of your being?

 

Really though, in terms of gender identity and such, sometimes we really do overthink ourselves into a corner, because we haven't had enough experience with the other sex to bring out certain parts of our sexuality/gender. We do change as we experience life and social interactions, after all. Just a few years ago, I thought that I'd never have a male partner. I hated ALL forms of female dress, I loved video gaming with a passion (and was good at it too!), I did not sing because I thought that I sounded like a man doing falsetto, I have no female hobbies, no close female friends, I was too intellectual and analytical to ever be able to experience such human sensations such as sexual arousal and orgasm, yadda, yadda. The basics of it is still true -- I still dress very simply, I still hate shopping, I still have more male than female friends, I still am an avid gamer. But I came to peace with myself as a FEMALE when I started finding out what aroused me, and experiencing sexual thoughts and orgasm. And feminine traits that I never thought I'd had (sensitivity, being driven by emotions, the need to support and nurture, liking long heartfelt talks and lots of cuddling , being touched instead of feeling awkward when a man does nice or chivalrous things for me) only emerged when I had my first bf.

 

That may or may not occur with you. But really, 5 years ago, back in my teens, I would probably be posting something exactly along the lines of your OP.

[purgatori]

First off, I just want to thank your for being honest. I very much appreciate that you do not try to sugarcoat your observations.

 

If you want to date (nothing wrong with being perpetually single, but you seem not to want to be so...), you really might want to consider not making your requirements so strict, for one thing. What happens if you find a girl who's intelligent, funny, sophisticated, well-read.. but maybe not so beautiful and DOES like men? And what happens if she's interested in you, with all your effeminate qualities? Would you turn her down?

 

Considering that I have turned down women who were interested in me before, I would have to say 'yes.' My "requirements", if you interpret them as such, might seem rather strict, but in actual fact they are merely a list of qualities that I envisage in an ideal conception of a potential partner. Someone might differ from what I have outlined, perhaps even to a considerable degree, and yet there might be something about them that just knocks me off my feet; in that case, I'm not going to turn them down simply because they do not satisfy a couple of the items on my checklist. Given that I am not interested in "flings", short-term, or casual relationships and the like, though, I really could not be involved with someone I wasn't completely besotted with. As both an aesthete and a product of evolutionary conditioning, I cannot deny that a woman's physical appearance often plays a powerful part in determining my attraction to her.

 

The men thing is tricky as well... if she was really into men (which would raise the question of why she was interested in me in the first place) it would be a constant source of disturbance for me. Firstly, there is my reflexive gross-out reaction to contend with, and secondly, there would be potential issues surrounding interrelation (someone who lives in a world where men are not only not loathsome, but, in fact, attractive, lives in a very different world to the one I inhabit), and trust. This has proven to be a deal-breaker a couple of times in the past.

 

However, your feminine mannerisms and such, would you LIKE to change them? Or do you consider them an essential part of your being?

 

No, because I don't see anything wrong with them; and yes, they are the truth of who I am which speaks out against the lie of what I appear to be. In the past, I have sometimes compromised who I am on the advice of others who wished to encourage me to adopt a more gender-appropriate demeanor/appearance... not only were the results ludicrous, but it made me feel even more miserable and alienated from both myself and from others (since I was no longer relating to them as myself). People (mostly family members) still badger me about cropping my hair or wearing some certain variety of male fashion, but I adamantly refuse to follow their advice, due to foreknowledge of the outcome.

 

Really though, in terms of gender identity and such, sometimes we really do overthink ourselves into a corner, because we haven't had enough experience with the other sex to bring out certain parts of our sexuality/gender.

 

If experience with the fairer sex in a romantic context is going to bring out the caveman in me, then, to be honest, I think that I would rather eschew such experience altogether. I am male enough to be reasonably well acquainted with the activity of the male libido, the shadow it casts on the psyche, and its sadistic relation to objects of desire. There is nothing good about it. What I want, is to relate to someone in much the way you describe: "sensitivity, being driven by emotions, the need to support and nurture, liking long heartfelt talks and lots of cuddling", which to me is characteristic not only of the feminine libido, but of love itself. The rapacious male libido, which seeks to subject, dominate, humiliate, degrade, and destroy (even if these activities are rarely carried out to their furthest extremes, or rather: logical ends), is incompatible with feeling love for someone, and knowing that, and having admitted it to myself, I could not let it manifest in relation to someone whom I loved.

[Els]

Just a few things that puzzle me:

 

1. You say that you're looking for a lifetime partner, and yet you rate appearances so high. But.. appearances don't last. Your lifetime partner, should you find one, will NOT be stunningly beautiful at the end of your lifetime.

 

2.

sensitivity, being driven by emotions, the need to support and nurture, liking long heartfelt talks and lots of cuddling", which to me is characteristic not only of the feminine libido, but of love itself. The rapacious male libido, which seeks to subject, dominate, humiliate, degrade, and destroy (even if these activities are rarely carried out to their furthest extremes, or rather: logical ends), is incompatible with feeling love for someone

 

How does the male libido subject, degrade, destroy, etc? Is not the act of sex between lovers supposed to be consensual and mutually enjoyable, an act of making love for both parties? How does the male role seem so despicable to you?

 

Btw, the traits that I mentioned... are not really based on libido per se. They are the emotional component of me, not the sexual. I believe this is true for many women as well.

 

As it stands, the way I see it, you're one of those unfortunate souls like me who will have to make a choice: compromise some aspects of our personality, or deal with a narrower dating pool. If I were to force myself to shop, manicure, etc and dress up, as well as act more feminine, I believe that I would have had more boyfriends. However, as my current bf puts it, when I chose to stick to those traits, I did myself the favour of weeding out the incompatible guys in the process of narrowing the pool. Thus guys who are interested in me and I end up dating usually have higher chance of success.

[kizik]

Welcome to being a young man. A girl no matter how fat, ugly or obnoxious always has a ton of guys in her entourage fantasizing about her. She could sleep with hundreds of men in a year if she only wanted to! She has it 10000x times easier than guys when it comes to finding a partner of the opposite sex, and is only celibate when she chooses to be, while many young men are sometimes almost inexplicably left to rot alone, without generating any interest from girls no matter how often they go out and how confident they try to be.

 

Yay.

 

I can only give you one piece of advice: when you try to get advice on the Internet, only listen to what the men say. Take what you think would work best for you, what can apply to your situations. Sadly, girls can't understand what it's like to never be shown interest and to be desperate, and they don't have your manly needs at heart. Disregard anything that a female says, they're remarkably clueless and naive and will mostly always tell you what you need NOT to do.

 

I'm not single right now but I definitely understand your state of mind and I sincerely feel for you. Be brave, bro. I wish you can find some source of pride or confidence in you and use this to become someone who's a truly interesting and flamboyant individual in the real world.

 

First off, congrats to Serph for saying what is on his mind and not worrying about offending women. I mean, REALLY not caring.

 

I agree with a lot of what he wrote. Many women are pretty clueless as what it means to be alive and to NOT be coddled with attention every day by parents, boyfriends, random guys, the world. Guys are expected to stand on their own two feet at all times, which means we are left alone and not worried about. Not by the world, our parents, and oftentimes our partners.

 

It is this standing-alone, however, that a lot of women want. They want to know that you could take them or leave them, in a way - more like they want to know that yes, you love them, but you are fine without them too.

 

I disagree with Serph when he says that 'no matter how fat' a girl is, she gets attention. Sorry, nope. I ignore fat girls on a daily basis. Girls get all the attention in this world, but only the cute ones.

 

Serph, you go off the deep end when you say to ignore anything a woman says. Sure, they don't understand what it's like to be left alone but surprise! a lot of women are total sweethearts and I can't wait to meet a good one again.

[purgatori]

1. You say that you're looking for a lifetime partner, and yet you rate appearances so high. But.. appearances don't last. Your lifetime partner, should you find one, will NOT be stunningly beautiful at the end of your lifetime.

 

Mental functioning, even mood regulation, do not last indefinitely. Everything about a person is subject to the same degradation -- since it is all a product of the same finite biological machinery. However, barring a major pathological event(s), e.g. dementia, someone of high mental function is liable to maintain a relatively high degree of functioning even into the latter decades of their life (just look at someone like Brenda Milner) -- in part due to genes, and in part due to environment (highly intelligent people are more likely to pursue and find activities which are mentally stimulating and require learning new skills and divining new avenues of approach, which we know has neuroprotective effects.

 

Similarly, someone who is highly attractive has a genetic advantage, but if they also exercise and maintain a heatly lifestyle in terms of diet and so on, as well as limit exposure to environmental hazards such as ultraviolet radiation, then they can limit deterioration to a far greater degree. One cannot fully anticipate what technological advances in combatting the various deleterious effects of aging will appear over the next decades. In any case, I still find many older women to be beautiful, such as Felicity Kendal, who at 62 is still a very attractive woman.

 

How does the male libido subject, degrade, destroy, etc? Is not the act of sex between lovers supposed to be consensual and mutually enjoyable, an act of making love for both parties? How does the male role seem so despicable to you?

 

The male psyche, in general, is geared toward aggression, dominance, subjugation, etc. because over the course of our species' evolution, these traits conferred an advantage on individual males in securing mating opportunities -- often through rape, but also by attaining societal rank/status, which in a more tribal/primitive context meant engaging in violent/aggressive forms of intrasexual competition --, and have thus been selected for. The male libido exists in a reciprocal relationship with the male psyche, and is indissolubly linked with aggressivity and impulses to dominate, subject, and control. These impulses may be mediated by affection and love, but never eradicated by them, especially when the sexual activity between "lovers" involves penetration (i.e. coitus). If one is in any doubt that the male libido is aggressive, and trafficks in an economy of humiliation, domination, subjection, etc. etc. then one has only to look at heterosexual pornography, which in almost all cases (I would say "all", but some would disagree), is very much a male's-eye view of what sex is all about -- and just look at how the women are treated, and what they are reduced to, in this world. Also consider the wider connotations of the "f word", and look at the male intrasexual lexicon for speaking about sex.

 

I think that should have answered why I find the male role so despicable.

 

Btw, the traits that I mentioned... are not really based on libido per se. They are the emotional component of me, not the sexual. I believe this is true for many women as well.

 

I am sorry, I should have been clearer. When I use the term "libido", I generally do not use it in the modern/popular sense of "(only) sexual desire"; I refer, instead, to the sum total of human instinct which impels us to form bonds and draw closer to others (whether it be platonically, emotionally, romantically, sexually, etc.) Sexual lust, on this definition, is but one expression or manifestation of the libido.

 

As it stands, the way I see it, you're one of those unfortunate souls like me who will have to make a choice: compromise some aspects of our personality, or deal with a narrower dating pool. If I were to force myself to shop, manicure, etc and dress up, as well as act more feminine, I believe that I would have had more boyfriends. However, as my current bf puts it, when I chose to stick to those traits, I did myself the favour of weeding out the incompatible guys in the process of narrowing the pool. Thus guys who are interested in me and I end up dating usually have higher chance of success.

 

I tend to agree with both of you, but I fear that I may be so peculiar that this "weeding out" has left a very sparsely populated pool indeed Rationally speaking, I am fairly certain that my chances of ever finding someone are so improbable as to be virtually nil... but I guess that there is some small part of me which hopes against hope that the improbable will somehow eventuate, and it is that part which is responsible for my continued survival.

[Els]

Wow, very interesting points there, purgatori. Many of them got me thinking, in fact, and others (regarding libido, for instance), I'd never known before.

 

To say that just because you do not want to relate yourself with the 'alpha male desire to dominate, control, etc', though, does not necessarily mean that you have a female sexual psyche, or need to have one. There are many men who have absolutely no intention of wanting to dominate/control/be aggressive in any form towards their partner -- trust me, I'm sexually wired in such a way that I'd WANT my partner to do so to me ONLY in the confines of the bedroom and consensuality. But to find a guy who'd do that is harder than you'd imagine. The modern man, especially where I live, perhaps, is frequently extremely chivalrous, gentle, and kind towards his partner in all aspects including sexuality, and is trained by the environment he grew up in to always respect women and NEVER do anything to degrade them even if she wanted to... and yet they still enjoy coitus and do not think of themselves as not wanting to play the male role. Or do you find the act of coitus per se, degrading to the woman?

 

I tend to agree with both of you, but I fear that I may be so peculiar that this "weeding out" has left a very sparsely populated pool indeed Rationally speaking, I am fairly certain that my chances of ever finding someone are so improbable as to be virtually nil... but I guess that there is some small part of me which hopes against hope that the improbable will somehow eventuate, and it is that part which is responsible for my continued survival.

 

This raises huge alarm bells in my head. You need a partner, or the hope of having one, for 'continued survival'? So if you were 100% certain that you would never have one, you find there no purpose to live? Why? Do you not enjoy other aspects of life, life that you yourself can enjoy, even if there's noone to share it with?

 

My concerns aside... I'm not sure if this helps, but I really thought, just barely 8 years ago, that I would never, ever find a partner. I would almost go so far to say that I was 100% sure. This was because I was in an environment that was extremely unconducive to it. I went to an all-girls' school hence there were very few men in my life, and the few that I did know were childhood friends... we'd all been friends since 5 or so -- yes, that one's a no-brainer. Which means that I'd had no chance for building relationships with men other than at surface level, and surface level really isn't where I shine.

 

But I didn't know all of this. And like you, I rationalized that I was constantly friend-zoned because of ME, because I was different from other girls. I didn't consider other factors, or that they would change. Now, I've been through 3 relationships, two in which the guy really loved me and accepted me for who I am.