Seperating and Shocked

[stillshocked]

Met my wife 8 years ago. She had an 8 month old daughter at the time, who I have raised as my own. We married 3 years ago and had a son.

 

6 months ago I went to a bachelor party and got a lap dance. I went home and told my wife about it. Apparently this was a big 'no no' for her. I thought we were dealing with the issues but a week ago she told me that she needed space to think about things and that she may want to get separated. This came as a huge shock to me. She finally told me last night that she wants to live separatly. I told her that was moving away from reconciling, and wanted to at least get some marriage counselling. In her view the marriage is unsalvageable.

 

I can't help but feel angry. I wasn't a perfect husband, but I recognized my faults (the main one being my emotional unavailabilty) and wanted to get some counselling to see if we could makes things work. I just don't feel that it is fair! If one person is 'shocked' that the other is leaving then I don't feel the shocked person really had a chance to try to fix things. She never even came to me and asked about getting marriage counselling as a last ditch effort. When I ask her she tells me that she feels she has done everything she can...

[Ronni_W]

I'm sorry that you're going through this.

 

From your wife's perspective, maybe she was shocked and angry that you did not seek individual therapy to deal with your emotional unavailability.

 

Sometimes, that's how it works -- the feeling that "I have done everything I can" is not necessarily accurate, but they're putting that in context of how little the other one did in terms of dealing with known issues.

 

If you haven't mentioned it to her, you could say that you understand and accept her belief that she's done everything she can, and you get that she may have been feeling like she was "trying in a vacuum and without your support"...BUT you will appreciate if she will accompany you to therapy as a way to help you come to the same conclusion that YOU have also done everything YOU can.

 

She may or may not have any desire to help you in such a way. But hopefully, IF you can help her see that you are taking responsibility for YOUR contribution to the breakdown of the relationship and that you have some level of understanding into HER psyche/feelings during these past months, hopefully you can stir something positive within her sufficiently for her to see some hope that you intend to be a more active, engaged, interested, caring husband in the future.

 

Wishing you positive outcomes.

[stillshocked]

Thanks for the reply.

 

My faults were there when we married. I have always not shown emotional or really been that emotional. It was fine until we came to a difficult point in our marriage where she needed that extra closeness that the problems started. I guess at first I was reluctant to change as I felt that she married me and that I should still be 'good' enough for her.

 

I do feel that I have done everything I can. I have committed to her that I would do whatever it takes to make the necessary changes to give her what she needs to feel complete in the relationship. I have already began making changes. I have read several books that have helped do a lot of self reflection. I have pointed out that I see the mistakes I made and that with counselling we could probably make this marriage work.

 

She is even angrier that I want to change. She feels that she didn't mean enough to me to change before, and only now that it is affecting me that i am willing to change.

[Geishawhelk]

Well, sometimes it takes a huge cataclysmic event to shake us up enough to want to act.

Everybody - without exception - falls into the 'complacent-rut'..... many many people go through married life, putting up with crap, because that's just the way it is, and they can't be bothered to shift the security of the relationship to try to move things on....

 

You should tell her how grateful you are that she's really helped to open your eyes to just how bad you had become... and that you value her views and opinions. You simply had no idea you had pushed her so far....

 

You see what I'm getting you to do here....?

 

I'm getting you to not only "own" your actions (yes, I know you already do) but I'm also getting you to make her feel important in your decision.

 

It's not only that it's affecting you that makes you want to change - it's that she's helped to make you realise the effect it's had on her, that makes you want to change.....

 

Approach her this way.

See if it helps.....

 

It can't hurt.....

[stillshocked]

Thanks. Good suggestion. So far she only sees my words, and told me that actions speak louder than words. But what actions can I do if she isn't willing to let me?

 

We are meeting tonight to discuss living arrangements. It may not be the best time to bring up reconciliation but I will see where the conversation goes. I felt like I laid everything out there last night to no avail.

 

She has a view of me that to me is very far from the truth. I love her very much, and I do show it, just not in the ways that she needs to hear it. When she told me she wanted to separate I was devastated, and she actually sent me an email that she was suprised and that she didn't think I would be this upset. It is like she have villified me in her head, and anything I do is viewed through a negative lens now.

[Ronni_W]

She feels that she didn't mean enough to me to change before, and only now that it is affecting me that i am willing to change.

 

From everything you've said thus far, that is 100% accurate, is it not? How you MAY be able to get through to her is to acknowledge that as a truth in how you did your marriage.

 

I do feel that I have done everything I can. ... I have already began making changes.

 

Not to belittle the efforts you have made. But. (Don't you hate when there is a "but"??? .) You may or may not be resistant to the idea that you have, in fact, done very little to accept that YOU are a major contributor to the current state of your marriage. You arrived here feeling "angry" (at her) and "shocked" (by her actions/reactions.)

 

That is blaming everything on her, instead of taking responsibility for what rightly belongs to you. By your own admission, you have been ignoring your "faults", and have been blind to (ignorant of) their negative impact. That it was unconscious on your part, doesn't mean that SHE gets the blame for the negative consequences.

 

It makes NO difference, as to when or why she started to become exhausted and depleted by your lack of awareness and inability to fully support, encourage and nurture your relationship and your partner. (How could THAT make any difference?)

 

And you have done very little to actually understand HER feelings and interpretations of events. Again, evidenced by your thoughts and the words you're using to express them.

 

She is NOT to blame, nor is it her fault, that YOU had distorted beliefs that she ought to just "put up" with whatever personal weaknesses you brought into your marriage, or that she would ALWAYS have the same levels of patience and understanding. Those are YOUR misguided and inaccurate beliefs, for which YOU are now paying the price/facing the consequence.

 

Self-anger would be more appropriate...but would be as futile and ineffective as directing your anger at her has proven to be. And "shock" would be more appropriate if it indicated shock at the immaturity and lack of self-awareness evident in YOUR OWN unexplored beliefs.

 

I have committed to her that I would do whatever it takes to make the necessary changes to give her what she needs to feel complete in the relationship.

 

Are you even sure that she is feeling "incomplete" in the relationship? Or is she more feeling that YOU are absent from the relationship? Do you think that there is a difference, for her, between those two things?

Is there a difference between feeling supported and cherished (from the outside), and feeling "complete" (from the inside)?

 

What, in your mind, are the changes that are necessary for you to make, for you to be a more involved, caring, supportive husband, and a more self-responsible man?

 

I would have to guess, but she likely has ZERO interest in spoon-feeding you what are those "necessary changes". You are not her child. My guess/intuition is that she is looking (or, was looking at any rate) for you to take some grown-up initiative, and demonstrate through action, your desire, willingness, and ability to be an active participant in your marriage.

 

I have pointed out that I see the mistakes I made and that with counselling we could probably make this marriage work.

 

I understand where you're coming from with that. BUT. You do NOT know if counseling can help her to get to a point of wanting to "try again." Saying stuff like that just comes across as uninformed and/or (another) arrogant assumption.

 

IMO, the "wrongest" thing you can do is to now try to come across as if YOU know what will make this marriage work. There is NOTHING to suggest (to her) that you've all-of-a-sudden become some type of expert on marriage in general, and yours in particular. There is NO history to help her believe that you even have one clue about how to do your OWN spousal role effectively and properly...nevermind what she wants/needs to feel loved, respected and appreciated in her primary relationship.

 

Honestly. I would suggest that you see a relationship counselor on your own, with the intention, goal and hope of rapidly developing a much-needed broader perspective and some more effective communication skills. Much-needed by your marriage, that is. We don't have a crystal ball, so we do not know if it will be sufficient or timely enough to help your wife see some REAL hope for her happy and successful future with you.

 

You are not communicating that such hope exists here, so it is unlikely that you are being any more successful at communicating it to her.

 

Like I said earlier. I'm sorry that you're facing these types of consequences. I know it's rough. And I'd like to see your marriage work, if that is at all possible -- I LOVE strong, mutually enriching, happy and successful marriages .

 

As I'm seeing it, for you to have that with THIS wife, you gotta take clear, strong, certain, swift action in the right direction. That is, give up your anger, shock and blame; don't waste time indulging in guilt, self-anger or self-recriminations; get yourself some excellent, professional assistance and then roll-up your sleeves, flex your muscles and get to work!

 

Then get down on your knees and pray to whomever/whatever is your Highest Power, that you are not too late.

And know that I'll be praying that very same thing, for you.

[Geishawhelk]

The above post is nothing short of utterly brilliant.

[Ronni_W]

She has a view of me that to me is very far from the truth. I love her very much, and I do show it, just not in the ways that she needs

Her perception of you is far from YOUR truth/self-image of you. But how she views you is her (current) truth of you. It is that you need to acknowledge and allow her to have her own set of perceptions and beliefs without you wanting to judge them as "wrong" or "mistaken".

 

If she is not feeling that you love her, that is the same as you not showing that you do. If you hate or are allergic to lobster (but I love lobster) and I just keep bringing you lobster as a token of my love (because receiving lobster makes me feel loved)...well, you get the picture, I'm sure.

Again, it is about allowing, without questioning or trying to influence, her own preferences, perspectives and perceptions to exist. Doing so does not make your own "stuff" meaningless or less important. It just means you also respect hers.

 

Something like, "I understand what YOU are seeing and how you are 'processing' what you're seeing. I understand that my past actions and inaction are responsible for your current view of me. THAT is what I'd like you to help me with. I want you to see me how you used to see me."

 

 

Yes, you're right: If she is exhausted and depleted enough, then the lens through which she's currently filtering you most likely is totally warped and her vision of you distorted/blurred.

 

But arguing your case by making her "wrong" will have the effect of shooting yourself in the foot.

[stillshocked]

Thank you for that Ronni.

 

While I think some of what you said is probably true, I do feel what I am doing is everything I can to make it work. I do take full responsibility for where we are at this point.

 

Is she justified to walk away and give up? Yes, if she feels that is what she needs to do. If she feels that she has done everything she can to save the marriage then she can walk away guilt free.

 

Am I allowed to have a different opinion? Yes, of course. Am I allowed to expect that with a commitment to marriage that part of that is to go through hell and high water before you give up? At least that is what marriage meant to me when I said my vows.

[Ronni_W]

The above post is nothing short of utterly brilliant.

Thank you, Geisha. Means more than I can possibly put into words.

With gratitude,

Ronni

[Ronni_W]

Still,

As I said, there may or may not be resistance to some/all of what you will hear -- from me, from others, from your relationship counselor.

It is not only perfectly acceptable, but totally expected.

 

Yes, that is fine to focus on HER marital commitments. But. That and five bucks will get you an over-priced coffee.

 

What were you vowing to do and to uphold, when you made your marital commitments? Did you live up to yours?

 

Regardless of what action you do decide to take, I wish you and your wife outcomes that are in the best interests of all concerned.

[stillshocked]

What were you vowing to do and to uphold, when you made your marital commitments? Did you live up to yours?

 

I believe so. Part of loving someone is understanding they may mistakes and working to forgive them. You may feel that I am totally wrong here (and maybe I am) but nothing i have done was with intent to hurt my wife. I was simply ignorant of what she needed to be happy. Unfortunately we don't all come into marriages knowing everything in advance.

[Alan430]

Ronni does make some very legit points, however i would like you take off shell shock glasses and look at the marriage again. I am going though this myself and when your grieving your mind blocks out all of the things that bothered you about your spouse. Even the things that may have caused you to emotionally neglectful. Im sure there were issues that were raised in the marriage on your behalf and did she work on those? Did she change?

 

You have to see the marriage as it is. Does she have the Right to leave, sure its a free country. Did she say "for better or worse", i bet she did. And the simple truth to the matter is that she wants more , and believes the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. it seems like there are many women out there with a pre-notion of what marriage is to be like. You are supposed to have new and exciting feeling 10 years of being married, well this is just not going to happen. I am sure you showed her other ways oh how much you loved her, Providing for you and her kid the best you can. Didnt go to bars after work , didnt cheat on her etc..

 

I do agree that you forgot to nurture your marriage as did i, we have learned this lesson and neither of us will probably make that mistake twice.

 

But the simple fact of the matter is she is done with the Marriage and your chances of reconcilating are slim to none. You may not believe it and it may not be a physical thing, but its there. She is having an affair, and im guessing its an emotional one. It could be as simple as a guy at work flirting with her. But this is what triggers the Grass is greener on the other side feelings. My SOTBX would say things like well this may only last a month, talk about what we should still do with the house as if we were still married and in love. Becareful of this because in my wifes case she was talking from guilt, and it will make you incrediable confused and make it impossible to move on.

 

Move on and if she realizes she does want to be with you she will let you know and then you can decide to work on the marriage. BUt for now you have only one choice and that is to MOVE on. Nothing you do right now is going to change her mind, only she can do that and the less contact you have with her the faster this process will happen.

[stillshocked]

Ronni does make some very legit points, however i would like you take off shell shock glasses and look at the marriage again. I am going though this myself and when your grieving your mind blocks out all of the things that bothered you about your spouse. Even the things that may have caused you to emotionally neglectful. Im sure there were issues that were raised in the marriage on your behalf and did she work on those? Did she change?

 

No, not always. A lot of times it seemed to be give and take. I communicated this to her and how it made me feel.

 

I do agree that you forgot to nurture your marriage as did i, we have learned this lesson and neither of us will probably make that mistake twice.

 

Yes, the sad part is that we will change, and current spouse won't get the benefit.

 

But the simple fact of the matter is she is done with the Marriage and your chances of reconcilating are slim to none. You may not believe it and it may not be a physical thing, but its there. She is having an affair, and im guessing its an emotional one. It could be as simple as a guy at work flirting with her. But this is what triggers the Grass is greener on the other side feelings. My SOTBX would say things like well this may only last a month, talk about what we should still do with the house as if we were still married and in love. Becareful of this because in my wifes case she was talking from guilt, and it will make you incrediable confused and make it impossible to move on.

 

Yes, I overheard her talking to a friend on the phone about how someone at work was flirting with her, and she liked it. She was starving for that attention, and I realize it felt could to her. Although it would hurt to find out that there is affair, I realize that it is just another symptom of the problem, and not the cause.

 

Move on and if she realizes she does want to be with you she will let you know and then you can decide to work on the marriage. BUt for now you have only one choice and that is to MOVE on. Nothing you do right now is going to change her mind, only she can do that and the less contact you have with her the faster this process will happen.

 

Yes, this seems to be where things are headed.

[peteyj]

When people 'leave' most of the time it's because they are cheating in one way or another. Very few people just walk out of marriage just because.. Yeah if there is abuse, then that's a different story, but a husband or wife normally aren't just going to call it quits one day 8 years down the line because they just want to move on. There might be a few cases where that happens, but the majority of the time when somebody ends a marriage it's because they found somebody else to replace you. Or so they think.

 

What happens many times is down the line suddenly this new relationship turns out to have the same issues and problems.

 

A marriage is a two way street. Nobody is perfect. You might have been unemotional. You might try to do things differently now. But on the same notion, she probably did things you didn't like. It's just the way it is. You try to work things and if counseling is needed, then it's needed.

 

My soon to be ex ended our marriage for some guy, but a few months later, while she still sees him, she's out with other guys every night because this other guy doesn't seem to be what she thought. Go figure that the new relationship feelings fade and suddenly the whole concept of two people needing to make things work comes into play.

 

 

Very few things in life are black and white. ANd marriage and relationships are never just one side of the story. So while you should look at what you could have done better, don't blame everything on yourself. Because the reality is it wasn't all your fault that she left. Some maybe, but not 100 percent.

[stillshocked]

Well, only time will tell if there is another man. I refuse to resort to snooping.

 

It isn't all my fault, but I was willing to accept responsibility for my shortcomings and address them regardless of whether she say hers or wanted to do anything about them.

 

I wasn't 100% happy, but happy enough, but I realize now maybe that contributed to the way I treated her and part of the reason I wasn't affectionate enough.

 

All in all, I think this marriage is over. While it would be nice to 'just start over' as I know we could have something great together (we did before) I have pretty much accepted that as a pipe dream at this point.

[soserious1]

Met my wife 8 years ago. She had an 8 month old daughter at the time, who I have raised as my own. We married 3 years ago and had a son.

 

6 months ago I went to a bachelor party and got a lap dance. I went home and told my wife about it. Apparently this was a big 'no no' for her. I thought we were dealing with the issues but a week ago she told me that she needed space to think about things and that she may want to get separated. This came as a huge shock to me. She finally told me last night that she wants to live separatly. I told her that was moving away from reconciling, and wanted to at least get some marriage counselling. In her view the marriage is unsalvageable.

 

I can't help but feel angry. I wasn't a perfect husband, but I recognized my faults (the main one being my emotional unavailabilty) and wanted to get some counselling to see if we could makes things work. I just don't feel that it is fair! If one person is 'shocked' that the other is leaving then I don't feel the shocked person really had a chance to try to fix things. She never even came to me and asked about getting marriage counselling as a last ditch effort. When I ask her she tells me that she feels she has done everything she can...

 

 

Maybe she just decided that she just can't stay married to a guy who'd go out to the strip club and snag himself a lapdance.

 

If I were she I'd have dumped you months ago...and told you to take your anger on down to the strip club.

[soserious1]

Thank you for that Ronni.

 

While I think some of what you said is probably true, I do feel what I am doing is everything I can to make it work. I do take full responsibility for where we are at this point.

 

Is she justified to walk away and give up? Yes, if she feels that is what she needs to do. If she feels that she has done everything she can to save the marriage then she can walk away guilt free.

 

Am I allowed to have a different opinion? Yes, of course. Am I allowed to expect that with a commitment to marriage that part of that is to go through hell and high water before you give up? At least that is what marriage meant to me when I said my vows.

 

 

 

Ah the vows!!! yes the vows, commitment to marriage, guess what?

you broke the marriage contract when you had a stripper grinding on your jock at the bachelor party.

[stillshocked]

Maybe she just decided that she just can't stay married to a guy who'd go out to the strip club and snag himself a lapdance.

 

If I were she I'd have dumped you months ago...and told you to take your anger on down to the strip club.

 

..and it is people like you that have basically ruined marriage today. I would have no problem with her getting a lap dance. Most married people I know, including women, would have no problem with it. If my wife cheated I would still find it in myself to try and forgive and move through things.

 

Yes, the vows, I meant them. It wasn't just until someone wronged me that I would pick up and leave.

[soserious1]

..and it is people like you that have basically ruined marriage today. I would have no problem with her getting a lap dance. Most married people I know, including women, would have no problem with it. If my wife cheated I would still find it in myself to try and forgive and move through things.

 

Yes, the vows, I meant them. It wasn't just until someone wronged me that I would pick up and leave.

 

I'm sorry but I would have a MASSIVE problem with a husband of mine having some naked woman grinding all over his crotch,I wouldn't be able to get past it because frankly it would flash thru my mind everytime he reached for me, which would make any kind of sexual intimacy impossible. I might forgive him for it but I would never be able to

forget it.. and that would end the marriage.

 

You don't get to decide for her whether or not this is a deal breaker...she gets to decide that.

[soserious1]

Also, your reply indicates very clearly that you've got no problem at all hitting the strip clubs and getting lapdances,you don't seem sorry at all in fact you seem down right ANGRY that anybody would see any sort of problem with this behavior. I'm betting your wife figures that there are going to be repeats of this sort of thing

and that she can't handle a lifetime of it.

[Alan430]

The lap dance is nothing, it may bother her but it is no terms to end a marriage for a 1 time thing. Maybe they have never discussed it and he didnt realize it would be such an issue with her. I have dated women in the past that actually liked to go to strip clubs with me so who knows. If she ended it just because of that she has some real insecurity issues and her jealously would be out of control.

 

Do not think you screwed up big time over that once incedient. That is ludicrous to think it was about a lap dance at a Bachelor party. She simply left because the new feeling has died like it always does, and your focus probably became being a good farther, and if i remember you said a new addition to the family. This was the turning point in my marriage also, i focused all the energy i had left on my child trying to be the best dad i could.

 

Simple fact is that you wife is selfish, if roles were reversed i think i would understand she was trying put everything she had into being a new mother or Good Family provider. I would wait because to me that is a totally attractive quality. Dont get me going but you wife is selfish and all she can think about is me me me. All i can say is get ready cause once shes been out a few weeks you going to see another side of her and it will hurt like hell. It will be vendictive and money driven. She will show her true colors and wont give a flying f*K about you or your feelings.

 

When she gets a few "hit and Runs" if you know what i mean, she will eventually realize that though we didnt show the love it was there, and they were to blind and selfish to see and understand it.

[peteyj]

The guy went to a bachelor party and got a lap dance. Maybe this was a no-no and if he knew this, then he'd be in the doghouse for quite a long time. But anybody that would end their marriage because the guy might have had a lap dance from a girl at a bachelor party who might have been wearing a bikini, is probably a person with far too many insecurities in the first place.

 

As another posted stated, I've dated girls years ago who went to strip clubs with my friends and I. Many strip clubs aren't even nude and some they don't even touch the person during a lap dance. Should this be a no-no for a guy? That depends on the girl. If this is something the guy did all the time and knew it was a no-no, then that's a problem. But if this was a one time thing at a damn bachelor party, then maybe he should have been in the doghouse for awhile.

 

The fact she left because of it is stretching the truth. Obviously this was a convenient excuse.

[soserious1]

The lap dance is nothing, it may bother her but it is no terms to end a marriage for a 1 time thing. Maybe they have never discussed it and he didnt realize it would be such an issue with her. I have dated women in the past that actually liked to go to strip clubs with me so who knows. If she ended it just because of that she has some real insecurity issues and her jealously would be out of control.

 

Do not think you screwed up big time over that once incedient. That is ludicrous to think it was about a lap dance at a Bachelor party. She simply left because the new feeling has died like it always does, and your focus probably became being a good farther, and if i remember you said a new addition to the family. This was the turning point in my marriage also, i focused all the energy i had left on my child trying to be the best dad i could.

 

Simple fact is that you wife is selfish, if roles were reversed i think i would understand she was trying put everything she had into being a new mother or Good Family provider. I would wait because to me that is a totally attractive quality. Dont get me going but you wife is selfish and all she can think about is me me me. All i can say is get ready cause once shes been out a few weeks you going to see another side of her and it will hurt like hell. It will be vendictive and money driven. She will show her true colors and wont give a flying f*K about you or your feelings.

 

When she gets a few "hit and Runs" if you know what i mean, she will eventually realize that though we didnt show the love it was there, and they were to blind and selfish to see and understand it.

 

 

Here's the deal... he doesn't get to decide for her if a lapdance is a deal breaker or not. She gets to decide that just as she also gets to decide if she wishes to spend the rest of her life with a guy who's on a totally different page from her on an issue this important.

 

 

If a guy thinks lap dances are just fine and the woman he's involved with thinks it's infidelity... that's a glaringly huge difference in values... too glaring for a marriage to survive imho. Such couples are better off parting ways sooner rather than later.

[soserious1]

The guy went to a bachelor party and got a lap dance. Maybe this was a no-no and if he knew this, then he'd be in the doghouse for quite a long time. But anybody that would end their marriage because the guy might have had a lap dance from a girl at a bachelor party who might have been wearing a bikini, is probably a person with far too many insecurities in the first place.

 

As another posted stated, I've dated girls years ago who went to strip clubs with my friends and I. Many strip clubs aren't even nude and some they don't even touch the person during a lap dance. Should this be a no-no for a guy? That depends on the girl. If this is something the guy did all the time and knew it was a no-no, then that's a problem. But if this was a one time thing at a damn bachelor party, then maybe he should have been in the doghouse for awhile.

 

The fact she left because of it is stretching the truth. Obviously this was a convenient excuse.

 

 

Yeah.. he went to a bachelor party and got a lapdance from a clothed woman who didn't touch him....

 

Here's the deal, she gets to decide if this is a deal breaker for her... this couple is clearly grossly mismatched in terms of values.. they will probably both be better off divorcing.