Why do so many men "never see it coming"?

[OneFootOut]

I have been browsing a lot of these threads and most of them are from men who are shocked that their wives have left or want to leave. You talk as if it's news to you, and you never had a clue. Really?

 

Has she been talking and writing letters and sending emails that you have ignored and hoped would go away?

 

I am a woman desperately trying to reach my husband. I have talked and written out numerous letters explaining everything I think and feel and asking him very direct questions about his own stance. I am crying out to him for help, and warning him of the ultimate outcome if things don't change.

 

He continues to not respond. I can just see him coming here in a few months typing that his wife left and he is shocked. It wouldn't surprise me since he seems to be ignoring my attempts to get through to him. Or he just has no clue how to respond and won't even tell me that.

 

I am trying NOT to be one of those women who suddenly walks out, but from what it looks like, I guess that's what it will seem like in the end.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 guys.. did you seriously have no clue? Hard to believe because most women are talkers and fixers. You sure you haven't just had your finger on the mute button?

[stillshocked]

Not sure if you read my thread.

 

yes, I was shocked. I heard her complaints but thought our marriage as work in process. I know she wasn't 100% happy, but i didn't get that she was so unhappy that she was ready to pick up and leave. There are always things we are unhappy with in our mate, I didn't realize what she was talking about was the 'dealbreaker'.

 

I actually had a romantic getaway planned for Valentines week at a resort up north before I found out. I was also thinking of taking my wife down south on our next aniversary to 'renew' our vows. So, yes, you could say I didn't see it coming.

 

Are you communicating that to him? Are you putting it in simple enough terms that he understands that you are ready to leave? If so, you can't do anymore.

[OneFootOut]

Not sure if you read my thread.

 

yes, I was shocked. I heard her complaints but thought our marriage as work in process. I know she wasn't 100% happy, but i didn't get that she was so unhappy that she was ready to pick up and leave. There are always things we are unhappy with in our mate, I didn't realize what she was talking about was the 'dealbreaker'.

 

I actually had a romantic getaway planned for Valentines week at a resort up north before I found out. I was also thinking of taking my wife down south on our next aniversary to 'renew' our vows. So, yes, you could say I didn't see it coming.

 

Are you communicating that to him? Are you putting it in simple enough terms that he understands that you are ready to leave? If so, you can't do anymore.

 

I am being absolutely clear. I have been trying for so long that I stopped trying to be gentle about things. I've gotten to where I am quite direct and to the point these days. I just can't get a response, an answer, an 'I agree', or an 'I disagree', or anything. It's as if he is hoping it will all just go away.

 

Or, this just came to me, maybe since I have been at it so long trying to work on it and I'm still here.. maybe he thinks I'm blowing hot air and I'll still be here next year? Wow... I just thought about it that way. He's not responding, because he knows I will hang in here and keep trying. Maybe it IS time I put some action behind my words.

 

Does that make sense from a man's point of view? Is that what he is doing?

[peteyj]

I have no clue what you're telling him. Most people sugar coat things and then expect everybody to be mind readers. If you think the sex stinks, are you telling him that or are you dancing around the subject? If you think he's spending all his time at work or you're spending way too much time apart from one another, are you telling him this exactly or are you dancing around the subject?

 

And why email? If you were really trying to tell him what's up, why would you need an email to do it?

 

Or maybe what you're telling him is that you really don't want to be married to him anymore but you are trying to work things out. At that point what do you expect him to say? If you want the marriage to end, then end it. Don't dance around like there really is a chance to save it because in the end, you're going to cheat or end it, and he's going to be hurt.

 

I don't know you or your husband but most of the time people never actually tell the other what's going on. The fact you seem to be saying whatever and he isn't even responding has to mean there is more to this story. If you're telling him hardcore truths that might hurt or make him angry, most people are going to respond in one way or another.

 

What are you actually telling him?

[alphamale]

Hindsight is 20/20 guys.. did you seriously have no clue? Hard to believe because most women are talkers and fixers. You sure you haven't just had your finger on the mute button?

my experince with women in these matters is that they are quite indirect and beat around the bush and drop "hints" that their men are supposed to pick up on. this is not communication.

 

in addition, some women will stay in a bad relationship until they find someone else. I call this the "Monkey tree-branch syndrome" - when a monkey is swinging from a tree she doesn't let go of the last branch until she has a firm hold on teh next branch.

 

these are probably some of the reasons why 75-80% of all romantic relationships are ended by the woman.

 

i myself usually do the dumping so it doesn't bother me...

[Geishawhelk]

Pete, it would be simpler and quicker if you read her threads.....

[peteyj]

Pete, it would be simpler and quicker if you read her threads.....

I have read her stories so stop making assumptions. I'm not sure what else to say. Her cases seem to be far different than most other peoples. Abuse, lies, cheaters, and now some guy who never touches her or talks to her.

 

If this guy hasn't really spoken to or touched her in 8 years, why would things be any different now?

 

Yeah certain circumstances like this are far different than what many other people go through. What do you want the guy to say and what are you telling him?

 

I mean if most of your relationship has been not to talk and not to touch, why would it be any different now?

[Kreggo]

I am one of the men that you are probably refering to when you say that you can't understand why men never see it coming.

 

I think that you are on the right track telling your husband about your feelings. That is something that I wish my wife would have done for me. Looking back I can see some of the issues that she had. The problem that I have is that my wife told me the same week that she left that she was so lucky to have such a wonderful husband and that she was so lucky to have me. Not what I would expect from someone that has since told me she was miserable for a long time. I unfortunately took my wife's words at face value.

 

When asked (not by me) why she didn't tell me that she was unhappy her response was "I just couldn't". My wife admits that she didn't express her feelings to me. In her case she tells everyone that she was trying to convince herself that she was happy because she knew that I was a good husband and a great father and that she knew she should be happy, but wasn't.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but yes I really was shocked when my wife left.

[Geishawhelk]

I'm sorry, I wasn't making assumptions....How was I to know you'd already read them?

 

Why jump down my throat?

 

I haven't given you any cr*p, have I?

[peteyj]

I'm not giving any crap, just saying I read her stories. There has to be far more to this story than what meets the eye. If 8 years of this relationship has been about no real conversations, no touching, no real emotional connection, then what did she expect was going to happen?

 

I mean if she never spoke up about what was going on for 8 years, I doubt the husband would respond now. I just don't get this story. If there was nothing for such a long time, why did you wait so long to speak up to the guy? There has to be more to this story. If the guy were abusive, then I could see fear considering her past relationships. However if he's just a loner or something, why wait so long to try and fix it?

[stillshocked]

Onefootout,

 

If you are using email for the same reason I do, it is because you want to absolutley make sure you are saying things right, and be able to look back and know that you did? Words and conversations are always interpreted in different ways, but if you have the words to confirm what was said sometimes that makes email better for serious issues.

 

Honestly, if I were to guess (and that is all it would be as I don't know you) but if he hasn't responded to you flat our threatening to end the relationship (and I mean using those words) then it sounds to me like he is just waiting for you to do it. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

 

Anyway best of luck to you.

[peteyj]

Maybe that's what it is.. Maybe he's afraid to end the relationship or maybe he's afraid to look elsewhere or afraid of losing you to start over and he thinks you'll never leave. Who knows.

 

The fact that the OP said they really have spoken or touched each other in 8 years sort of means this relationship ended a long time ago.

[Geishawhelk]

Just read your threads, Pete.

 

No wonder you're bitter.

 

Think I'll just leave you guys to it.

 

Take care!

[Mountains10]

I have been browsing a lot of these threads and most of them are from men who are shocked that their wives have left or want to leave. You talk as if it's news to you, and you never had a clue. Really?

 

Has she been talking and writing letters and sending emails that you have ignored and hoped would go away?

 

I am a woman desperately trying to reach my husband. I have talked and written out numerous letters explaining everything I think and feel and asking him very direct questions about his own stance. I am crying out to him for help, and warning him of the ultimate outcome if things don't change.

 

He continues to not respond. I can just see him coming here in a few months typing that his wife left and he is shocked. It wouldn't surprise me since he seems to be ignoring my attempts to get through to him. Or he just has no clue how to respond and won't even tell me that.

 

I am trying NOT to be one of those women who suddenly walks out, but from what it looks like, I guess that's what it will seem like in the end.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 guys.. did you seriously have no clue? Hard to believe because most women are talkers and fixers. You sure you haven't just had your finger on the mute button?

 

 

Yeah this thread hits close to me, I wish I had a simple explanation for why we don't listen. I think some of us throw on our 'nagging defenses' or maybe it's that we get to a point, that we don't really think they'll leave. I know that I was in that cycle, she would nag, I wouldn't change, she would nag, she would cry about it, I would feel bad, but I wouldn't change. She walked out one day, I begged, pleaded, cried, etc. She said she was done. She meant it too. I changed, but only because I never really took her seriously. I think we get into a cycle and we are stubborn, meaning that we don't care to change, we think that the woman will always be there, no matter what.

 

When I finally realized my wife was done with me, it was too late, but I still made the changes that she used to bug me about for me. I know that I couldn't go into a future relationship and have the same bad habits or I'll eventually end up in divorce again for the same reasons.

 

Looking back, I wished my wife would've left for a month or two, then came back and gave it a second shot, once I had made the changes. Oh, and btw, I'm getting served this week supposedly. Been 5 months since the day she said she was done.

[Mountains10]

I am being absolutely clear. I have been trying for so long that I stopped trying to be gentle about things. I've gotten to where I am quite direct and to the point these days. I just can't get a response, an answer, an 'I agree', or an 'I disagree', or anything. It's as if he is hoping it will all just go away.

 

Or, this just came to me, maybe since I have been at it so long trying to work on it and I'm still here.. maybe he thinks I'm blowing hot air and I'll still be here next year? Wow... I just thought about it that way. He's not responding, because he knows I will hang in here and keep trying. Maybe it IS time I put some action behind my words.

 

Does that make sense from a man's point of view? Is that what he is doing?

 

I don't know what it is you're trying to get him to do, but let's just say it's doing laundry or washing the dishes. STOP doing it all, I don't care how bad things get piled up or backed up, do NOT do anymore of it. It will send a clear message that you are done. I don't know if that's what you are referring to, but you have to stop being the enabler. I would definitely give this a try before you walk out. Almost like a fog that we get in, that we can't see what needs to be done. To snap out of the fog, we need a serious change in habits to take place. Find a way to break the cycle.

[peteyj]

Just read your threads, Pete.

 

No wonder you're bitter.

 

Think I'll just leave you guys to it.

 

Take care!

I'm not bitter. Not anymore. You live and learn. Yeah it sucks what happened, but in all honesty, if this were a guy posting about his wife, most people would say she was sleeping with somebody else.

 

Maybe that's what the OP can't accept. That maybe he is sleeping with somebody else and has for years. Or maybe the OP husband is afraid to come out of the closet. I mean 8 years is a long damn time not to have any physical contact. So either the guy has a medical condition he's afraid to tell her or he's getting something from somebody else. Because there had to be some nights where she was dancing around and wanting him that he would have caved in...Maybe only once every year, but for 8 years to absolutely have nothing.....then either the guy isn't a guy anymore or he prefers guys or he's getting it on with somebody else. Or he needs medical attention to fix a problem. 8 years of no sex and no touching is a long damn time for a guy never to get aroused once if his wife is prancing around trying to get him to notice.

 

Like I said there is more to this story than meets the eye.

[Ronni_W]

men who are shocked that their wives have left or want to leave. You talk as if it's news to you, and you never had a clue.

I really think it is exactly what one person said, "I heard her complaints but..."

And then they give their justification(s) as to why they didn't take "her complaints" seriously...as if her just expressing her concerns, issues, dissatisfaction, or however she expressed her unhappiness/discontentment, did not warrant any further thought or action on the spouse's part, and was somehow just magically going to disappear!!!

 

"I heard her complaints but..." I thought she was just: PMSing, being all emotional, making something out of nothing, going to get over it.

 

"I heard her complaints but..." I: didn't see the big deal, wasn't affected by it (other than having to listen to her bitch about it every few months), never had any problems, was waiting for something to change, didn't realize I had to actually do anything, was too busy focusing on stuff that I considered much more important, was waiting for someone to tell me what to do.

 

They're totally NOT GETTING that it is THEIR OWN denying, and ignoring, and taking for granted, and being complacent, and hearing but not actually listening that is leading to their own shock and horror.

 

"I heard her complaints but..." I didn't give a crap enough to bother to take the time to try to understand what was going on for her or how it was affecting us and now I'm really shocked and angered that she is fed-up of my not giving a crap!

 

There was another thread about this a few months back (maybe in the 'marriage' forum.) The women are asking, "What the heck are we supposed to DO, guys, for you to not just tune us out and call us nags and hags, witches and bitches?"

 

But they get defensive and can't offer us anything useful at all, that will actually help us save our marriages. AS IF that is not what we were trying to do the very FIRST time we expressed our concern...way back when it was still relatively small and quite manageable to repair, had we BOTH made the effort to do that.

[peteyj]

I really think it is exactly what one person said, "I heard her complaints but..."

And then they give their justification(s) as to why they didn't take "her complaints" seriously...as if her just expressing her concerns, issues, dissatisfaction, or however she expressed her unhappiness/discontentment, did not warrant any further thought or action on the spouse's part, and was somehow just magically going to disappear!!!

 

"I heard her complaints but..." I thought she was just: PMSing, being all emotional, making something out of nothing, going to get over it.

 

"I heard her complaints but..." I: didn't see the big deal, wasn't affected by it (other than having to listen to her bitch about it every few months), never had any problems, was waiting for something to change, didn't realize I had to actually do anything, was too busy focusing on stuff that I considered much more important, was waiting for someone to tell me what to do.

 

They're totally NOT GETTING that it is THEIR OWN denying, and ignoring, and taking for granted, and being complacent, and hearing but not actually listening that is leading to their own shock and horror.

 

"I heard her complaints but..." I didn't give a crap enough to bother to take the time to try to understand what was going on for her or how it was affecting us and now I'm really shocked and angered that she is fed-up of my not giving a crap!

 

There was another thread about this a few months back (maybe in the 'marriage' forum.) The women are asking, "What the heck are we supposed to DO, guys, for you to not just tune us out and call us nags and hags, witches and bitches?"

 

But they get defensive and can't offer us anything useful at all, that will actually help us save our marriages. AS IF that is not what we were trying to do the very FIRST time we expressed our concern...way back when it was still relatively small and quite manageable to repair, had we BOTH made the effort to do that.

While I agree with a lot of what you say, Do women ever think they do anything wrong or is it always the guys fault no matter what?

 

I mean come on now...It was the guys fault that a women cheated. Very convenient excuse really. Instead of blaming themselves, just blame the husband/wife for not listening. Yet in another thread a few people tell some guy he should be thrown to the curb cause he got a lap dance. Hey maybe his wife wasn't really listening.

 

It goes both ways. The woman has to listen. The man has to listen. And there has to be compromises. It can't always be one way all the time.

[OneFootOut]

I'm not giving any crap, just saying I read her stories. There has to be far more to this story than what meets the eye. If 8 years of this relationship has been about no real conversations, no touching, no real emotional connection, then what did she expect was going to happen?

 

I mean if she never spoke up about what was going on for 8 years, I doubt the husband would respond now. I just don't get this story. If there was nothing for such a long time, why did you wait so long to speak up to the guy? There has to be more to this story. If the guy were abusive, then I could see fear considering her past relationships. However if he's just a loner or something, why wait so long to try and fix it?

 

Pete, the first 3 or 4 years of our marriage was great. We had a healthy sex life. He just shut down and quit on me, in every aspect. I guess I have been spending the last 8 years trying to understand WHY and FIX it instead of walking out. It was good before. I have no idea why it changed so suddenly and seemingly so permanent. All I can get from him is that he has issues from his past. I guess maybe he has always been this way and the first few years of our marriage he was just playing the part??? When you are struggling to solve a problem, I guess you just don't realize how much time goes by.

 

I think realizing that I have been speaking up and trying to fix this for the last 8 years is why I'm starting to feel its now or never. I'm not getting any younger.

 

I don't beat around the bush with him or sugar coat things, I'm way past that point. I used to try and put things delicately as not to make him mad or hurt him, but now I just put it out there straight to the point.

 

And about the emails. Writing it out gives me time to make sure I say everything I need to say, and gives him plenty of time to read it and think on it. I used to try talking and felt like I was talking to a brick wall. Or things would get emotional and he'd walk away and the talk would be over. Emails and notes and letters put it down where he can take it in and study it if he needs to. Emotion doesn't get in the way of the 'text discussion'.

[Ronni_W]

It goes both ways. The woman has to listen. The man has to listen. And there has to be compromises. It can't always be one way all the time.

I have seldom, if EVER, heard a man say that his marriage ended because his wife totally ignored it when he raised concerns that the marital relationship was suffering due to lack of communication and/or emotional bonding.

That may, of course, have happened but I, personally, don't know of one case where that was the cause of a divorce. I do, OTOH, know of way too many where it is a version of, "I knew we had some problems but..."

 

It is not so much that ONE lap dance can end a marriage (although of course it can) but that it is ONE lap dance (or whatever "straw that breaks the camel's back") ON TOP OF years of having expressed concerns and unhappiness ignored and denied.

 

Of course it goes both ways. That is the point, isn't it? But, historically, men become all eager to START listening immediately AFTER the women declare that they are done begging & pleading with their men, to listen.

 

It is the shock and horror that women can run out of patience and forgiveness and understanding that is so...well, laughable if it just wasn't so darn sad.

[peteyj]

I do agree with you however a guy who runs out on his wife is considered a lowlife and a pig. A woman who does it 'there has to be a reason' is a double standard that probably just isn't true most of the time anymore.

 

Maybe it's different in other parts of the county but in the places I've lived where many women make just as much, if not more, money than men, Women are just as bad as men when it comes to relationships. So it does go both ways and the reality is ending a relationship or leaving is far different than waiting to go have an affair and then leave. That just means the person waited around leaching off of somebody for who knows how long until somebody else came along.

 

As far as the OP.. I don't know. I would not spend 8 years with somebody who didn't really talk to me, touch me, or none of that. If there were a problem it should have been dealt with. Yeah there are people who aren't as emotional as others. People who aren't as touchy feely. But there has to be moments where some of that stuff happens over an 8 year period. For it to never happen over 8 years just sounds like somebody was doing something else with somebody else.

 

Yeah if the guy were working 100+ hours a week and never home, then maybe. People become work-a-holics. But if he worked some overtime but not all the time and just never was into his wife.....Something had to be wrong.

[OneFootOut]

I don't know what it is you're trying to get him to do, but let's just say it's doing laundry or washing the dishes. STOP doing it all, I don't care how bad things get piled up or backed up, do NOT do anymore of it. It will send a clear message that you are done. I don't know if that's what you are referring to, but you have to stop being the enabler. I would definitely give this a try before you walk out. Almost like a fog that we get in, that we can't see what needs to be done. To snap out of the fog, we need a serious change in habits to take place. Find a way to break the cycle.

...

 

Honestly, if I were to guess (and that is all it would be as I don't know you) but if he hasn't responded to you flat our threatening to end the relationship (and I mean using those words) then it sounds to me like he is just waiting for you to do it. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

 

Anyway best of luck to you.

 

The dishes comment gave me a chuckle, thanks. I gave up that battle years ago This is way deeper and more serious than who does what around the house. This is about a lack of any kind of personal relationship beyond that of being no more than roommates.

 

I have been thinking that from his lack of response, maybe he really is waiting on me to just end it. Then he will be the squeaky clean innocent victim to all the friends and family. I'll be the wretched beast that ripped the family apart.

 

I just wanted to open a line of communication with him and see whats up with him. If he wants to fix things, if he wants to move on. If there is nothing left to fix, I keep hoping we can reach a mutual decision and help each other move on peacefully without all the anger and drama.

 

Man I wish he was gay, that would sure answer a lot of questions. It would make me feel better as a woman too. I am ready and willing to accept whatever he tells me. It's not like I am going to get mad or resent him. Hell if he's gay, we can go shopping and double date. I don;t think that's even it though.

 

I think somewhere in his past he was hurt very deeply, so much that he is unwilling to face it let alone try to resolve it. I can't help him, because he won't let me in.

[whichwayisup]

Have you actually said to him, "I'm really unhappy and if we don't fix this marriage, I'm going to leave you and we're getting a divorce?" Hinting at it and writing letters isn't going to change anything. Most people react when change is FORCED upon them, so maybe you have to leave him, separate for abit so he can feel the consquences of him choosing to do nothing.

[peteyj]

I have seldom, if EVER, heard a man say that his marriage ended because his wife totally ignored it when he raised concerns that the marital relationship was suffering due to lack of communication and/or emotional bonding.

That may, of course, have happened but I, personally, don't know of one case where that was the cause of a divorce. I do, OTOH, know of way too many where it is a version of, "I knew we had some problems but..."

 

It is not so much that ONE lap dance can end a marriage (although of course it can) but that it is ONE lap dance (or whatever "straw that breaks the camel's back") ON TOP OF years of having expressed concerns and unhappiness ignored and denied.

 

Of course it goes both ways. That is the point, isn't it? But, historically, men become all eager to START listening immediately AFTER the women declare that they are done begging & pleading with their men, to listen.

 

It is the shock and horror that women can run out of patience and forgiveness and understanding that is so...well, laughable if it just wasn't so darn sad.

I don't know. I guess a lot of what I base things recently is my own experiences. And hey I might not have been the best husband and I spent a lot of time working while my soon to be ex wasn't working at all. We had no children so essentially she was a stay at home wife who went to school once in a while and worked pt once in a while.

 

Anyway there were things I could have done differently over the years. But saying all that, she's the one who ended our marriage to be with some other guy. Except she didn't leave to live with him. Since she had no money nor place to go so she stayed with me.

 

She used the lines 'I have no emotional connection and I love you but I'm not IN love with you anymore.' It was tough to handle at first but I moved on. Yes, I still allowed her to live for free with me until she could find a place and get on her feet. I really wasn't happy but I wasn't going to let her live on the street or do stupid things just to find a place to live.

 

Saying all that, she calls me first when her car broke down, she got pissed the day before v-day cause her bf wasn't even going to hang out with her on that day and she got all drunk and tried to hook up with me saying "how come nobody loves me like you did" blah blah blah crap. It didn't work. I still care for her but after all she's done over the past few months, I really have no feelings for her anymore. Maybe I do but not marriage or lover type feelings. Not by a long shot anymore. Well then on V-day night, seems I'm the only person who said "Happy valentines" day to her...not because she's my ex but because I say it to all the females I bumped into. Just being nice. Well her bf didn't even call her or wish her happy v-day... So she went out later with some other random dude. Later that night she called me first when her date left her stranded at some bar. It was some random dude she picked up I guess as she's a cute girl and guys fall for her all the time. I couldn't go pick her up as I was out with friends and not exactly in driving condition. And even though I have no desire ever to be with her again and I really can't stand her at this point, I still didn't want her to be stranded or picked up by a stranger.

 

 

Those are my experiences. Don't tell me that I worked too much this and that over the years and then after we are split and I"m finally out getting girls numbers and moving on she's the one who calls me when she's in trouble. Sorry but I thought the guy she left me for, her bf, who she spends all her time with, should be the guy she calls.

 

Maybe my experiences are different and yeah maybe I could have done some things different as a husband over the years. I'm not the perfect person, by any means, but don't tell me that guys never listen and then when the wife does leave, they shouldn't be shocked. And don't say guys are this or that when they do move on and that ex seems to be pissed that we aren't always there for them anymore. Seems to me if they always wanted us there, they should have thought about that before leaving. That's the thing about moving on. You actually move on.

[Lizzie60]

I am a woman desperately trying to reach my husband. I have talked and written out numerous letters explaining everything I think and feel and asking him very direct questions about his own stance. I am crying out to him for help, and warning him of the ultimate outcome if things don't change.

 

What's his problem? Is he dumb or something?

 

He continues to not respond. I can just see him coming here in a few months typing that his wife left and he is shocked.

 

He might not come here at all.. maybe that's what he wants..

 

It's hard to say why he's not responding.. maybe he thinks you're not serious.. and you will not carry your threats.. maybe you've threaten him so many times.. he just thinks it's getting silly.

 

Stop giving warnings.. and start doing something about it..

 

Leave the idiot!!!