Why do so many men "never see it coming"?

[TrustInYourself]

Also it boiled down to the basics: It takes TWO to work at it, SHE communicated with you and YOU responed!

 

I guess, if you call 11th hour efforts responding. She had to move out and tell me it was over. She wasn't joking either. My marriage was toast, lol.

 

Everyone falls in and out of love. That is the nature of marriage in my opinion. Some people choose to deal with it, others do not. It's all a matter of what you want. You make it happen. There are no victims, only people who choose to grow and those who die.

[stillshocked]

TrustinYourself,

 

Your story intriques me. My wife claimes to have 'told' me and now tells me it is over and it moving out.

 

...and I am responding at the 11th hour.

 

What were the circumstances that allowed you too to work past your differences and re-invent the marriage?

 

I am curious to know what made her decide to give it another shot after intially saying it was done and moving out.

 

Tried to find yoru story in a thread but have so many! Any one particular one I should read?

[TrustInYourself]

Pm me. Sorry for thread hijacking.

[carhill]

Tried to find yoru story in a thread but have so many! Any one particular one I should read?

LS had a database failure last year and some threads were lost and/or truncated. I believe some of TIY's story got lost in that mess.

 

You won't be able to PM him for another 25 days or so. New member restriction, unless you're an older member with a new handle; in that case, PM under your old username.

[TrustInYourself]

LS had a database failure last year and some threads were lost and/or truncated. I believe some of TIY's story got lost in that mess.

 

You won't be able to PM him for another 25 days or so. New member restriction, unless you're an older member with a new handle; in that case, PM under your old username.

 

Yeah my initial posts were deleted. What was left was me jumping from thread to thread like a madman searching for answers and someone to talk to.

[stillshocked]

Ok, sorry for highjacking the thread everyone...I am new to this and didn't know that there was PM's, probably becuase I can't do them yet!

 

TIYS, perhaps you could share some of what you felt where the most important reasons for reconiliatioin with your wife on my thread? Very interested to hear whether it was anything special that happened during the separation period taht made her decide to give you another change.

[Taramere]

There are many approaches to communication and I think it's best to tailor your efforts to the individual.

 

You have some powerful arguments and straightforward analysis. Are you typically dealing with really immature men, or by nature of your communication style, you create insecurity in others?

 

I'm talking about situations where I'm presented with other people's conflicts and asked to help resolve them - either in an adversarial way, or through alternative forms of dispute resolution.

 

People of all kinds get involved in conflict - and yes, in the heat of conflict they'll often respond either immaturely and/or in an overly controlling, aggressive manner. A serious conflict is a test of anyone's ability to manage themselves calmly and rationally.

 

You do realize that by making statements where you passively agressively assume the role of the person of responsibility. You are setting yourself up to take on the communication role of person in charge. I can definitely see how most men would respond to that negativetly.

 

All I realise from that excerpt of your post is that you aren't keen on my style of communication.

 

Here's the kicker, do you realize the way you communicate or do you simply focus on the reactions of others as you communicate?

 

I've been observed, graded and/or given feedback on my communication techniques enough times to have a decent idea of my natural strengths and weaknesses in communication.

 

Sorry to OP for hijacking the thread.

[toddro]

 

 

Okay, I'm not trying to sum up your 10 year relationship. I'm giving a reaction (possibly a typically female one to the style of that particular post.

 

In real life (most usually a professional setting) when I get into disputes with men they use aggression to "win" the argument. It goes something like this: I make a point they don't like, or I say something that annoys them/undermines their argument. I get a whoosh of unwarranted and OTT anger that seems aimed to quash dissent and bring an end to further discussion. I'm fairly used to that ploy, because I grew up with a father who used it constantly....and I've encountered it a lot professionally too. So if I have an argument or a point I want to make, I'll make it regardless...even if I have to wait for the whoosh of disapproval and outrage to burn itself out.

 

Does not translate over, I understand what your saying but were talking about matters of the heart here. When you throw emotions in to the mix all bets are off, here is My Story that may throw some contrast and background on your analysis.

 

So my male opponent (bear in mind I'm talking professionally here - I'm not a misandrist. Well, not all of the time anyway) has to adopt a different ploy. Most usually a more sophisticated approach. Women do it too. Start off with a bull-dozing approach to see if the opponent is easily cowed. If they're not, something more sophisticated is called for.

 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Interesting choice of words here, do you default to disagreements with people ( Men in particular) as virtual tennis matches? That was one of the things I had an issue with when it came to my ex...Still do...that just because we are in a disagreement, it does not mean that we are incompatible. I call that being passionate about the relationship. The guy she is dating now for example is all rainbows and butterflies...why? Because they both are pretty much using each other to fill a very specific void. No arguments, no disagreements. Just the cover of a romance novel, when I disagree with her...believe it or not... Me as this Neanderthal as you like to reference is not trying to "win" the argument. If one person were able to "win" the argument, you both lose in my opinion. Only through submission does the other person "win", and that breeds resentment. No, I honestly am trying to share with her how I am feeling about this issue we are disagreeing about. Because she is, in my eyes, the only person on earth I can let my guard down for and be vulnerable to. For me that is one of the most hurtful parts of our separation. I have lost that intimacy and it is now reserved for someone else.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

 

 

 

 

Actually subtlety is often very effective. To deny that is to restrict yourself as far as being skilled in communication goes.

 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Well yeah, if your objective is to win an argument for the sake of your own ego. " Hey, look at me. look how skilled I am at negotiation. I have read books on it and studied strategy on how to be an "effective" debater" Well, great you just won the argument, now you want to tell me how you really feel? Or maybe you and Sun Tzu would like to be alone? [/FONT][/COLOR]

 

I've met men who have excellent insight and emotional intelligence as well as being very analytical thinkers. Maybe they have special powers that the average man lacks

 

Dont look now but you just agreed with me I.E. "Average Man"

 

, but I don't think so. I think it's more likely the case that some men will dismiss certain thinking and communication styles as "too female - I'm a man!!" whereas others will recognise that realistically, not everyone will be cowed into eternal, impressed silence by an aggressive 'STFU' approach

.

 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Women on average use 20 to 30 thousand words a day where men use about 7 thousand. Why is this? I think because women tend to pay more attention to inflection, tone, body language, and the pauses in between words. They look for the emotions in the words; they want to feel what you are saying and not just hear it. So to a man, it’s like a 30 minute conversation on how to change a light bulb when to him it should only take about 30 seconds. Men don’t understand all the extra "talk" because they see it as unnecessary, where as women are using this "extra" talk to become more intimate.[/FONT][/COLOR]

 

 

 

There are plenty of times I've observed a traditional male approaching debate/negotiation in a traditionally masculine manner (direct, blunt...) and thought "I see one or two techniques there that I could borrow in future - albeit it tailoring them into a slightly more feminine approach." Likewise, all the men I know who are skilled negotiators borrow from both the masculine style and the feminine one, according to the skills the negotiation/dispute calls for at any one time.

 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]"Learn from me grasshopper, watch me emasculate my opponent for the sake of my own justification" I’m not trying to bust your chops here, trust me I am a complete tool at the moment in my relationship. But I have to ask you, how is that working out for? I mean with that approach you could go through life without ever knowing what it’s like to be truly venerable and completely in love with someone[/FONT][/COLOR]

 

If it's possible in a professional context, why would it not be possible in a domestic one? It's eminently possible for men and women to understand eachother quite well, and to be fluent in eachother's preferred language. I don't buy this "duh - we're men. Watch our fingers skim the ground as we walk. We're unsophisticated thinkers who need to be spoon-fed easily digestible mush. No fancy, hard to understand muck."

 

LOL

 

That's like the male equivalent of the ditzy little girl who claims that it's impossible for her to figure out how to change a flat tyre. Okay - I buy that men of an average or below average intelligence level might fall into that category. Women too. But educated, well socialised men? There's something decidedly disingenuous about those men claiming to be simple, confused Neanderthals who are startled and confused by the complex creatures that women are. Men and women aren't so different in the way our minds work.

 

I agree when the objective is convey sincerity and be open and honest about your intentions and motivation. But when the objective is to daze and confuse...women have the clear advantage. They say it is a woman's perogative to change her mind, it's ok in society for a women to be vunerable and confused and not sure of what she wants and how she feels. For a man it is seen as a weakness and he will be cast out by his peers. Even though he may be feeling the same things as the woman, as you say...our minds are not so different and I agree...however the last time I checked, women are attracted to men not men who act like women.

 

 

To clarify - yes, I realise I don't know you. I'm not addressing your character or your life/marriage here. I'm addressing the style you adopted in a post on this thread. I'm addressing the insulting notion that men aren't equipped to understand subtle "womanspeak" and it's therefore up to women to learn to be bi-lingual.

 

 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]So you’re saying it’s up to men to be Bi- Lingual? Subtle woman speak is another word for I can’t make up my mind here so I am going to poke and prod around here to gauge a reaction, or provoke one for that matter. All I’m saying is both women and men alike would be better served by being a little more forthcoming versus using subtle strategy for the sake of self preservation.. which is the case in the context of this thread. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[Taramere]

Does not translate over, I understand what your saying but were talking about matters of the heart here. When you throw emotions in to the mix all bets are off, here is My Story that may throw some contrast and background on your analysis.

 

I read it. I think that serious emotional conflicts (eg a marriage or long term relationship breakdown) can throw a person into the state where they feel vulnerable in quite a childlike way. Your childhood sounded really fractured and unstable. The traumatised feelings you describe, in relation to your present difficulties, are understandable.

 

Interesting choice of words here, do you default to disagreements with people ( Men in particular) as virtual tennis matches?

 

If I think that's what they want - yes. I do like tennis (good analogy, btw - I've often made mental tennis references when I'm engaged in conflict professionally) and I also like verbal sparring sometimes. If I find the other person aggressive in the sense that they want to get one over on me, then as long as I've got time I'll continue with it until I think it's being overplayed or feelings (rather than egos) are being wounded.

 

I honestly am trying to share with her how I am feeling about this issue we are disagreeing about. Because she is, in my eyes, the only person on earth I can let my guard down for and be vulnerable to. For me that is one of the most hurtful parts of our separation. I have lost that intimacy and it is now reserved for someone else.

 

That sounds incredibly painful, particularly in light of past events

 

Well yeah, if your objective is to win an argument for the sake of your own ego. " Hey, look at me. look how skilled I am at negotiation. I have read books on it and studied strategy on how to be an "effective" debater" Well, great you just won the argument, now you want to tell me how you really feel? Or maybe you and Sun Tzu would like to be alone?......"Learn from me grasshopper, watch me emasculate my opponent for the sake of my own justification" I’m not trying to bust your chops here, trust me I am a complete tool at the moment in my relationship. But I have to ask you, how is that working out for? I mean with that approach you could go through life without ever knowing what it’s like to be truly venerable and completely in love with someone

 

By nature I'm conflict avoidant...but I'm also contrary, so I deliberately went into professional areas that would force me to face and deal with conflict on a regular basis. I had to find ways of coping with them. Reading theories about conflict management and putting them into practice worked out pretty well for me. Certainly a lot better than if I'd just relied on my own instincts, that's for sure. Instinctive reactions to conflict tending to be flight or fight.

 

Romantically? Well, I think romantic relationships bring out the child in us - and that's partly what's so great about them. It's fine to be childish when you're playing. If conflict's setting in, and it's turning nasty, it's time to start dealing with it like an adult. There's no option, if you want the conflict to have a hope of being resolved without leaving a trail of destruction in its wake.

 

Of course it sounds off-puttingly clinical when you refer in that context to theories about conflict management. It doesn't mean they aren't relevant, but in a real life scenario it's going to sound ludicrous if W says to H (or vice versa) to say "your aggressive behaviour is suggestive of you being in free child mode - which is find for play and creativity, but inappropriate for conflict management. With reference to Transactional Analysis, let's both get into rational adult mode."

 

On the other hand, one or other might say "Why are we fighting like this? We're both adults and we're both capable of communicating like adults."

 

They say it is a woman's perogative to change her mind, it's ok in society for a women to be vunerable and confused and not sure of what she wants and how she feels. For a man it is seen as a weakness and he will be cast out by his peers. Even though he may be feeling the same things as the woman, as you say...our minds are not so different and I agree...however the last time I checked, women are attracted to men not men who act like women.

 

I see internal confusion as an inevitable part of the human condition....and in a close relationship, I think you have to allow for yourself and the other person to sometimes feel confused, and even to regress a little bit at times. I'd be concerned about a man I was in a close relationship with never showing a vulnerable or confused side, because I'd take it as a sign that he didn't trust me.

 

Some people are constantly dizzy and confused - either because it's a charm ploy that's always worked for them before or because they're incompetent adults. Whether they're male or female, a person like that is going to have trouble being taken seriously as an adult. Fundamentally, I think women are attracted to men who are able to act like adults when that's what's needed (eg in a crisis, in a conflict and when important decisions must be made).

 

I would think that the majority of men also look for partners who are competent adults. The childlike aspects are often what attract people to eachother in an emotional sense. Unfortunately those childlike aspects can become incredibly irritating once difficulties set in to the relationship.

 

So you’re saying it’s up to men to be Bi- Lingual? Subtle woman speak is another word for I can’t make up my mind here so I am going to poke and prod around here to gauge a reaction, or provoke one for that matter. All I’m saying is both women and men alike would be better served by being a little more forthcoming versus using subtle strategy for the sake of self preservation.. which is the case in the context of this thread.

 

It's not so much a case of it being "up to" either gender to take an open-minded approach to communication and conflict resolution. It's up to the individual whether they want to improve in those areas. I think that if they do, and if they set about making serious efforts to improve, it can benefit them in many ways. Some of the side benefits being that they learn better management of their emotions, which can have positive implications for their stress levels.

[toddro]

I read it. I think that serious emotional conflicts (eg a marriage or long term relationship breakdown) can throw a person into the state where they feel vulnerable in quite a childlike way. Your childhood sounded really fractured and unstable. The traumatised feelings you describe, in relation to your present difficulties, are understandable.

 

Well I guess we have offically hijacked this thread. Understandable yes I suppose... Umm..Ok well I have no idea how to respond to this.

 

 

If I think that's what they want - yes. I do like tennis (good analogy, btw - I've often made mental tennis references when I'm engaged in conflict professionally) and I also like verbal sparring sometimes. If I find the other person aggressive in the sense that they want to get one over on me, then as long as I've got time I'll continue with it until I think it's being overplayed or feelings (rather than egos) are being wounded.

 

Grin

 

 

 

That sounds incredibly painful, particularly in light of past events

 

It is, truly it is.

 

 

By nature I'm conflict avoidant...but I'm also contrary, so I deliberately went into professional areas that would force me to face and deal with conflict on a regular basis. I had to find ways of coping with them. Reading theories about conflict management and putting them into practice worked out pretty well for me. Certainly a lot better than if I'd just relied on my own instincts, that's for sure. Instinctive reactions to conflict tending to be flight or fight.

 

I agree here

 

 

Romantically? Well, I think romantic relationships bring out the child in us - and that's partly what's so great about them. It's fine to be childish when you're playing. If conflict's setting in, and it's turning nasty, it's time to start dealing with it like an adult. There's no option, if you want the conflict to have a hope of being resolved without leaving a trail of destruction in its wake.

 

Agree again, which brings up another interesting segway to this forum. Notice how many relationships end with one partner basicly reverting back to childhood...back to high school days of the shallow rainbow and butterfly fog of summer loves. Its almost like de-evolutin.

 

Of course it sounds off-puttingly clinical when you refer in that context to theories about conflict management. It doesn't mean they aren't relevant, but in a real life scenario it's going to sound ludicrous if W says to H (or vice versa) to say "your aggressive behaviour is suggestive of you being in free child mode - which is find for play and creativity, but inappropriate for conflict management. With reference to Transactional Analysis, let's both get into rational adult mode."

 

 

 

On the other hand, one or other might say "Why are we fighting like this? We're both adults and we're both capable of communicating like adults."

 

Oh if it were that easy.

 

 

I see internal confusion as an inevitable part of the human condition....and in a close relationship, I think you have to allow for yourself and the other person to sometimes feel confused, and even to regress a little bit at times. I'd be concerned about a man I was in a close relationship with never showing a vulnerable or confused side, because I'd take it as a sign that he didn't trust me.

 

Some people are constantly dizzy and confused - either because it's a charm ploy that's always worked for them before or because they're incompetent adults. Whether they're male or female, a person like that is going to have trouble being taken seriously as an adult. Fundamentally, I think women are attracted to men who are able to act like adults when that's what's needed (eg in a crisis, in a conflict and when important decisions must be made).

 

I would think that the majority of men also look for partners who are competent adults. The childlike aspects are often what attract people to eachother in an emotional sense. Unfortunately those childlike aspects can become incredibly irritating once difficulties set in to the relationship.

 

 

 

It's not so much a case of it being "up to" either gender to take an open-minded approach to communication and conflict resolution. It's up to the individual whether they want to improve in those areas. I think that if they do, and if they set about making serious efforts to improve, it can benefit them in many ways. Some of the side benefits being that they learn better management of their emotions, which can have positive implications for their stress levels.

 

Interesting, never thought of it that way but I believe you are correct. And I find that in my situation.

[TrustInYourself]

I'm talking about situations where I'm presented with other people's conflicts and asked to help resolve them - either in an adversarial way, or through alternative forms of dispute resolution.

 

People of all kinds get involved in conflict - and yes, in the heat of conflict they'll often respond either immaturely and/or in an overly controlling, aggressive manner. A serious conflict is a test of anyone's ability to manage themselves calmly and rationally.

 

 

 

All I realise from that excerpt of your post is that you aren't keen on my style of communication.

 

 

 

I've been observed, graded and/or given feedback on my communication techniques enough times to have a decent idea of my natural strengths and weaknesses in communication.

 

Sorry to OP for hijacking the thread.

 

You're right I'm not keen.

[Taramere]

You're right I'm not keen.

 

Oh no! My confidence is in tatters....but if I've helped you to be a little more clear and direct in articulating your thoughts, it'll all be worth it. Remember this?

 

You do realize that by making statements where you passively agressively assume the role of the person of responsibility. You are setting yourself up to take on the communication role of person in charge. I can definitely see how most men would respond to that negativetly.

 

[TrustInYourself]

LOL, are you familiar with the term AMOG. You are AMOGing me.

[Taramere]

LOL, are you familiar with the term AMOG. You are AMOGing me.

 

 

I am, and I know! I've been told before that I post relatively a-sexually, but I prefer to think I'm like Mystery without the fuzzy hat.

[stilllearning2]

If the woman is on antidepressants, pain medicatione etc. the H's have no clue it's coming because majority of men/women don't understand what these medications do to you. They change a person's core identity and remove feeling of love, affection and attachment. My friend's wife walked out on him and left him with toddler age kids. She also has a feminist therapist which hasn't helped the situation. I found this site which explains this hidden dependency issue that is being totally ignored by society as a major causative factor in ending relationships and causing unnecessary divorce. Check it out and read it all and you will understand why sometimes "men don't have a clue."

 

[COLOR=#800080]http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=400510998[/COLOR]"]

[Justanotherschmuck]

I have been browsing a lot of these threads and most of them are from men who are shocked that their wives have left or want to leave. You talk as if it's news to you, and you never had a clue. Really?

 

Has she been talking and writing letters and sending emails that you have ignored and hoped would go away?

 

I am a woman desperately trying to reach my husband. I have talked and written out numerous letters explaining everything I think and feel and asking him very direct questions about his own stance. I am crying out to him for help, and warning him of the ultimate outcome if things don't change.

 

He continues to not respond. I can just see him coming here in a few months typing that his wife left and he is shocked. It wouldn't surprise me since he seems to be ignoring my attempts to get through to him. Or he just has no clue how to respond and won't even tell me that.

 

I am trying NOT to be one of those women who suddenly walks out, but from what it looks like, I guess that's what it will seem like in the end.

 

Hindsight is 20/20 guys.. did you seriously have no clue? Hard to believe because most women are talkers and fixers. You sure you haven't just had your finger on the mute button?

 

I gotta say, its lucky that these walk away women never promised to be married forever. I mean, a woman saying she tried to tell her husband how unhappy shes been for years and years gives her the right to bash him over the head until he DOES listen. I can totally understand them being frustrated and ticked off. But thats it. Only that. If my wife was unhappy and I didn't do anything about it, I'd be either uncaring, or brain dead to her plight. But, just how does LEAVING fit in to this deal? We took a vow. That vow promises many things, the most important is TO NEVER GIVE UP. Because that invalidates the other things.

 

Unhappy your spouse is not giving your thrills? Fine. Do something, anything. And don't say youve tried everything, because you know and everyone here knows that can't possibly be true. Your spouse can make you frown every single day of your life, you walk, and your the one to blame. Its the old excuse, "I drink because I am so unhappy" "I left because I was so unhappy" No one shoved that bottle of Jack down your throat, and noone kicked your butt out of your marriage.

 

You broke a promise, plan and simple, the biggest promise of all.

[Justanotherschmuck]

The only thing to say to your husband who hasn't been "listening" is this:

 

"I need these things from you. I need them now. I won't take no for an answer.....If you are unwilling to these things for me...............................

 

I WILL LEAVE. DIVORCE YOU. START OVER WITHOUT YOU. REMOVE YOU FROM MY LIFE.

 

Saying your unhappy and then leaving when he doesn't respond just doesn't make sense. Millions of women or men are unhappy with things about their spouses and DON'T leave. TELLING them you are leaving BEFORE you leave is AT LEAST warning them.

 

For close to 8 years I asked my wife over and over and over, whats the matter? Why are you acting distant? Not acting like a wife. It was always the same response. I was being paranoid. I was acting like a dago (Italian), nothing was the matter, stop being controlling (because I wanted her to stand by me at a relatives funeral, like ALL THE OTHER WIVES).

And then it all hit the fan. So for ten years, while I sensed she was moving away emotionally, she denied it AND made me question my own sanity and motives.

 

She was a great wife. I created this cold, heartless monster I have now. But I just wanted the chance to fix some or most of her concerns. Now, its who ever has the biggest ballz and files first. Its a shame. ANd its FOREVER killed my trust in others. And I'm no longer thrilled with "turn the other cheek" any longer.

 

I really really believed those vows I took. I've seen couples argue and fight and still love one another at the end of the day. I believe in unconditional love, I guess she lied on our marriage day and doesn't. Without it, there is NO chance in a marriage, cuz people just screw up way to often. We take thiings for granted, we F up.

 

This has changed my life like nothing else.

[scoot]

I'm new here so cut me some slack please.

 

Sure I saw it coming I've seen it coming for about 5 years, hot and cold in and out.

My wife would often tell me that she felt all alone in our home like a stranger, each time I would say how can I fix this? what can we do to make this better. Each time it was over she would say that I was making it all her fault that she didn't feel connected.

There were many complex issues, step children, no common kids, a crazy ex-wife, her desire to build her business.

She isolated herself from the family, she worked 12-14 hour days, she stayed in our bedroom and watched TV, read, or played computer games.

She complained about feeling disrespected and unwanted, and she isolated herself.

Did I feel blindsided when it all came to a head....NO.... but that didn't make it feel any better.

She was crying on valentines eve when I went to bed, I asked if she was still sad about our marriage, not why are you sad. I knew she was sad because she wanted out, I was mad because she wanted out, I have never wanted out, I only wanted adjustments.

There was no compromise, the office was most important, my kids from my 1st marriage were not going anywhere.

I did say I was open to discuss anything, it was all on the table I was still all in.

I used to feel marriage was unconditional love and when you say "I DO" f'n stand by it.

Today I'm checking my pipe, because I think someone put crack in it.

With wide open eyes I saw that train coming , and as it got closer I did things to make it go faster. As it crashed against the wall it didn't make a sound.

I do see the wreckage,and I sure feel the pain.

[OneFootOut]

I gotta say, its lucky that these walk away women never promised to be married forever. I mean, a woman saying she tried to tell her husband how unhappy shes been for years and years gives her the right to bash him over the head until he DOES listen.

Put your wife through what I have lived all this time and see how long she sticks around. I'm here to tell you and the whole f*cking universe that I stayed 8 years longer than 99.9% of any human on this planet would have. Because I did take my vows seriously, and I did try everything humanly possible to make it better.

 

 

I can totally understand them being frustrated and ticked off.

How about lost, hurt, living in depression, empty, lonely, and dying inside?

 

But thats it. Only that. If my wife was unhappy and I didn't do anything about it, I'd be either uncaring, or brain dead to her plight. But, just how does LEAVING fit in to this deal? We took a vow. That vow promises many things, the most important is TO NEVER GIVE UP. Because that invalidates the other things.

 

Unhappy your spouse is not giving your thrills?

How about that he hasn't touched me, cuddled with me, had a date with me, talked to me, held my hand, done anything to participate in his family in YEARS. How about that he has completely shut down and abandoned me mentally, emotionally, and physically on all levels and in every way? Thrills? Who's talking about getting thrills?

 

Fine. Do something, anything. And don't say youve tried everything, because you know and everyone here knows that can't possibly be true. Your spouse can make you frown every single day of your life, you walk, and your the one to blame. Its the old excuse, "I drink because I am so unhappy" "I left because I was so unhappy" No one shoved that bottle of Jack down your throat, and noone kicked your butt out of your marriage.

 

You broke a promise, plan and simple, the biggest promise of all. Excuse me? HE broke every promise he made in our vows. Beginning with to love, and ending with walking out instead of dealing with the bad that comes with the good.

 

Guess what? I didn't walk. I stuck in there 8-9 of the last 12 years struggling to FIX it. HE WALKED. He didn't even give me a month of effort trying to fix things, not even a micro-fraction of the effort that has consumed the last several miserable years of my life. Wear MY shoes for that long feeling worthless and unwanted and see how long you stick it out pal.

[chettwalterss]

My ex left but had been mentally Ill for some time. She can home from the hospital this one time and had a friend of heres come and visit her. I tended to their needs ( fruit, drinks, napkins, etc ). She turned to her visiting girlfriend and said " He doesn't do anything to help me. ) To which her friend said " Are you kidding? He's done this, this, this and this since I got here. She said he did?

 

I work 65 - 85 hours per week. Cut and trim the lawn, clean the pool, cook, do laundry and deal with her and her issues. I've been a supportive and loving husband.

 

Her best friend became my dear friend. I lived with her husband and 2 kids for almost 4 months. My ex complained that I never did anything. She'd say your ex never saw you.

 

So, I was surprised and insulted that she left me because I was lazy. In reality, she started dating her rich friend from Boston. She got a new job down south and moved.

 

She told me she wanted a Divorce saying you know I've never been happy. Also that I wasn't ambitious enough. With one exception, she got all new friends and turned her back on her old ones mostly because they told her she was crazy to have left me.

 

Not all men keep their heads buried in the sand. Even her best friends were shocked and surprised.

 

This may be all for the best even though my heart is still broken. My own children don't ever want us to get back together.

 

Sorry for being so long winded.

 

Chett

[Justanotherschmuck]

Guess what? I didn't walk. I stuck in there 8-9 of the last 12 years struggling to FIX it. HE WALKED. He didn't even give me a month of effort trying to fix things, not even a micro-fraction of the effort that has consumed the last several miserable years of my life. Wear MY shoes for that long feeling worthless and unwanted and see how long you stick it out pal.

 

First off, you got to get to know me before I'm your pal.

 

Second, if your HUSBAND REALLY WALKED OUT ON YOU, well, its simple, what I said GOES DOUBLE for him, because, as a male, I find it HIDEOUS that a man walks out on a woman he VOWED to love and protect. Youre pissed, thats good, be pissed at HIM. What he did to you SHOULD be criminal.

 

You break the terms of a BUSINESS promise, like buying a house, and you go through a HELL of a lot more, get punished more, get hassled more than when you break the terms of YOUR MOST IMPORTANT RELATIONSHIP, one where breaking your terms TOTALLY DESTROYS, at the very least, temporarily, another persons life. They have NO CONTROL OF IT!

 

How, in Gods name, is it possible to BREAK a contract, possibly destroy the life of your spouse and heaven forbid, KIDS, and be able to NOT only walk away scott free, but have the possibility to walk away financially ENRICHED?

 

Your husband sucks lady. If you didn't have a boyfriend or were smacking him over the head with a cinderblock, he's got NO EXCUSE.

 

Hope your life turns around. Mine will forever be me trying to organize whats left.....and thats NOT what I had planned for the future.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

My ex left but had been mentally Ill for some time. She can home from the hospital this one time and had a friend of heres come and visit her. I tended to their needs ( fruit, drinks, napkins, etc ). She turned to her visiting girlfriend and said " He doesn't do anything to help me. ) To which her friend said " Are you kidding? He's done this, this, this and this since I got here. She said he did?

 

I work 65 - 85 hours per week. Cut and trim the lawn, clean the pool, cook, do laundry and deal with her and her issues. I've been a supportive and loving husband.

 

Her best friend became my dear friend. I lived with her husband and 2 kids for almost 4 months. My ex complained that I never did anything. She'd say your ex never saw you.

 

So, I was surprised and insulted that she left me because I was lazy. In reality, she started dating her rich friend from Boston. She got a new job down south and moved.

 

She told me she wanted a Divorce saying you know I've never been happy. Also that I wasn't ambitious enough. With one exception, she got all new friends and turned her back on her old ones mostly because they told her she was crazy to have left me.

 

Not all men keep their heads buried in the sand. Even her best friends were shocked and surprised.

 

This may be all for the best even though my heart is still broken. My own children don't ever want us to get back together.

 

Sorry for being so long winded.

 

Chett

 

Chett, your post deserves it's own thread...

[theBrokenMuse]

But, just how does LEAVING fit in to this deal? We took a vow. That vow promises many things, the most important is TO NEVER GIVE UP. Because that invalidates the other things.

 

'Never giving up' is for people that are too emotionally unstable to understand the difference between giving something their all and stupidly remaining steadfast in a toxic relationship.

 

Your spouse can make you frown every single day of your life, you walk, and your the one to blame. Its the old excuse, "I drink because I am so unhappy" "I left because I was so unhappy" No one shoved that bottle of Jack down your throat, and noone kicked your butt out of your marriage.

 

You broke a promise, plan and simple, the biggest promise of all.

If one walks they are to blame for what? The end result (which they apparently want to come about by this time) or the entire weight of the reasons behind why the marriage was horrible to begin with?

 

I don't understand the rest of your analogy. Some people are driven to engage in risky or bad behaviors because of emotional upheavals. I don't think that anyone would argue that they aren't doing these things of their own free will but they still have those factors that play into the reason why they chose to do so. Are you arguing otherwise?

[soserious1]

I gotta say, its lucky that these walk away women never promised to be married forever. I mean, a woman saying she tried to tell her husband how unhappy shes been for years and years gives her the right to bash him over the head until he DOES listen. I can totally understand them being frustrated and ticked off. But thats it. Only that. If my wife was unhappy and I didn't do anything about it, I'd be either uncaring, or brain dead to her plight. But, just how does LEAVING fit in to this deal? We took a vow. That vow promises many things, the most important is TO NEVER GIVE UP. Because that invalidates the other things.

 

Unhappy your spouse is not giving your thrills? Fine. Do something, anything. And don't say youve tried everything, because you know and everyone here knows that can't possibly be true. Your spouse can make you frown every single day of your life, you walk, and your the one to blame. Its the old excuse, "I drink because I am so unhappy" "I left because I was so unhappy" No one shoved that bottle of Jack down your throat, and noone kicked your butt out of your marriage.

 

You broke a promise, plan and simple, the biggest promise of all.

 

This might come as a shock but a lot of people aren't really interested in staying married to somebody that's so tuned out that you need to bash them in the head with a brick to get their attention.

 

If my ex had paid half as much attention to what I was saying to him as he did to porn and ogling college girls he might have actually had a clue.

[Gunny376]

The only thing to say to your husband who hasn't been "listening" is this:

 

"I need these things from you. I need them now. I won't take no for an answer.....If you are unwilling to these things for me...............................

 

I WILL LEAVE. DIVORCE YOU. START OVER WITHOUT YOU. REMOVE YOU FROM MY LIFE.

 

Saying your unhappy and then leaving when he doesn't respond just doesn't make sense. Millions of women or men are unhappy with things about their spouses and DON'T leave. TELLING them you are leaving BEFORE you leave is AT LEAST warning them.

 

For close to 8 years I asked my wife over and over and over, whats the matter? Why are you acting distant? Not acting like a wife. It was always the same response. I was being paranoid. I was acting like a dago (Italian), nothing was the matter, stop being controlling (because I wanted her to stand by me at a relatives funeral, like ALL THE OTHER WIVES).

And then it all hit the fan. So for ten years, while I sensed she was moving away emotionally, she denied it AND made me question my own sanity and motives.

 

She was a great wife. I created this cold, heartless monster I have now. But I just wanted the chance to fix some or most of her concerns. Now, its who ever has the biggest ballz and files first. Its a shame. ANd its FOREVER killed my trust in others. And I'm no longer thrilled with "turn the other cheek" any longer.

 

I really really believed those vows I took. I've seen couples argue and fight and still love one another at the end of the day. I believe in unconditional love, I guess she lied on our marriage day and doesn't. Without it, there is NO chance in a marriage, cuz people just screw up way to often. We take thiings for granted, we F up.

 

This has changed my life like nothing else.

 

BINGO!