Handsome men = a rarity

[CommitmentPhobe]

I was being facetious on the idea that men only go for what the study claims, it is basic knowledge that only anyone of mediocre intelligence would see that as a "significantly and rare eye opening" find. Oohhh-ahh! I have a hard time with stats of all things abstract, and trying to quantify personal attraction is about as abstract as you can get. Of course, as you said there are general popular ideals of beauty but attraction is just so much deeper than body parts and whether they fit into a certain generic category of mass acceptance.

LOL yeah I know you were being facetious, talking about the science of attractiveness is a bit like a red flag to a bull to me

 

The funny thing is that the most mind blowing love experiences I've had defied all the idealisms or images in my head. Of course they were within the realms of what I am attracted to but SO NOT what I would picture as an ideal mate if I have to imagine one. When you are free enough to make that kind of connection with someone you really experience something extraordinary.

Totally. Just an unexplainable spark that happens out of nowhere. Nothing to do with anything we expect.

 

I also find it sad that some men think "chemistry" a cliche or made up term. It's sad because it makes me think they really never experience real chemistry with someone, and that is sort of sad.

I agree. I have to say among my male friends, the ones who have experienced chemistry and love know how much someone's idiosyncrasies are endearing about them.

[MN randomguy]

I haven't read through the entire 11 page (OMG!) thread. But, I don't know if this has been said.

 

Beauty isn't that much of a masculine trait. Whatever happened to men are brave and strong. But women are pretty?

 

Every time you get girls talking about what guy is hot they bring up feminine traits. Hairless, nice hair, fine featured etc. Also, I don't get how styles in guys change. Show a guy a sixty year old playboy and they'll tell you Marilyn Monroe was hot.

 

Women, well, Burt Reynolds was a stud in his time. But, if you saw smokey and the bandit with a group of women in their early 20s... Not so much.

 

I might agree that women are the "fairer sex" but men are supposed to be more visual. So, it works.

[Isolde]

MN random guy--

 

I am considered attractive and am petite and small but I have strong facial features. I find guys with small noses and jawlines to be very attractive probably because I am "lacking" in that way.

 

But -- I know that I can also find men who are not this type very attractive. It's just that, I have a very strong appreciation for some level of beauty in men.

[Tomcat33]

LOL yeah I know you were being facetious, talking about the science of attractiveness is a bit like a red flag to a bull to me

 

OLE!!!

 

I agree. I have to say among my male friends, the ones who have experienced chemistry and love know how much someone's idiosyncrasies are endearing about them.

 

 

Some people need a lot of pictures in books to guide them along, other people actually read books. I think I stopped needing pictures in my books in grade 3?

 

But -- I know that I can also find men who are not this type very attractive. It's just that, I have a very strong appreciation for some level of beauty in men.

 

Wow Isolde, I find it hard to believe that this is what you find lacking out there. When I look around at how modern men are getting primped these days they tend to want to focus on looking more pretty than maculine. I mean looking at bodybuilding alone, can the male physique resemble more to that of a woman's than when you see these supper buffed guys with big pecs, small waists, no body hair and round firm butts? Hmmmm...

[Isolde]

Eew, I don't like metrosexual men. I like classically handsome men. Like a young Warren Beatty.

[Tomcat33]

Eew, I don't like metrosexual men. I like classically handsome men. Like a young Warren Beatty.

 

 

atta girl! then I agree we need more classically handsome men around...

[DMoon]

The problem with those studies is that they only ever deal with generic norms. That just doesn't work. Take a look just at this thread for example. One person says an actor is hot, another goes ewww. All human senses react differently according to their perception. Is that something that can really be measured?

 

I think it's one thing to understand the human body and how it reacts to things chemically. That in itself is a useful study with transferable knowledge on the way the human body works. It's another thing to try and define attraction in itself. What have we learned from these studies? Nothing that we already didn't know. There's a notion of universal attractiveness, and there's a notion of subjective attractiveness. The later will always override the former because it's what's makes us human. These trends are also different between cultures and over time, therefore it's like measuring an inch of soil in an acre and drawing a conclusion on the rest of the land. The problem is, the studies never have the rest of the land to work with so are invariably weak.

 

I say this as a scientist, I think these studies are a complete waste of money, and if anything should be categorised under philosophy where they'll get softer funding. If I ever get where I want to get in my career I'll certainly be pushing for that.

 

Back to the point, youth, beauty blah blah blah, if this was the case then then why can you walk along any street in any part of the world and witness a number of counterexamples? It's just beyond belief that anyone would buy into it.

What about the golden ratio on beauty? Do you think it is a factual certainty that lends credence to a scientific and universal standard of beauty in women and not as subjective and culturally specific as you propose? In addition, do you think evolutionary psychology definitively explains gender behaviors and preferences and why beauty is so important for mating?

[MN randomguy]

Hmm,

 

Do you think you have a "Stronger" appreciation than most women?

 

If so, Why is that? Yes, everyone wants an attractive mate and has to compete for them.

 

Another thing to throw in. Could it be that if one trait is liked by one sex and not another there could be a regional component to your original question.

 

Example:

 

In the immediate area that I'm from it was settled largely by German immigrants (blocky strapping people). The size XL is the first sold-out in the clothing stores and our football team dominates. My sister will say the guys from our town are hotter than average. square jaws, broad shoulders.

 

Other parts of MN are inhabited by those of Swedish descent. Blond, tall, slender, big blue eyes. Pretty girls that I prefer. My sister likes the German boys from back home.

 

 

Isolde,

 

Have you traveled? have you seen parts of the country with better looking guys?

[Isolde]

Not saying I expect all guys to look like that, but yes, the clean cut, boyish type is not so prevalent these days.

[Isolde]

Hmm,

 

Do you think you have a "Stronger" appreciation than most women?

 

If so, Why is that? Yes, everyone wants an attractive mate and has to compete for them.

 

Another thing to throw in. Could it be that if one trait is liked by one sex and not another there could be a regional component to your original question.

 

Example:

 

In the immediate area that I'm from it was settled largely by German immigrants (blocky strapping people). The size XL is the first sold-out in the clothing stores and our football team dominates. My sister will say the guys from our town are hotter than average. square jaws, broad shoulders.

 

Other parts of MN are inhabited by those of Swedish descent. Blond, tall, slender, big blue eyes. Pretty girls that I prefer. My sister likes the German boys from back home.

 

 

Isolde,

 

Have you traveled? have you seen parts of the country with better looking guys?

 

Yes, I'm more visual than average.

And yes, I have travelled a lot. I love tall, Nordic men. I think I should move to rural Minnesota.

[39388]

Your options are limited!?!?

 

Realisitcally speaking, the majority of people in society fall in the 1-5 category the problem is that we are so inundated by perfection in marketing and Hollywood glamor that we are convinced that is the norm. Sorry people but beautiful people that rate in the 8-10 category are freaks of nature NOT the norm.

 

As soon as we can all accept this the happier we will all be a society.

 

And no you are wrong, a lot of women are a lot more accepting of men that are lower in the grade so long as they have other redeeming qualities where as men, not so much. You read about it every single day here, intellectually capability amounts to shet, career amounts to she, life experience amounts to shet, the only thing men seem to be interested in (according to what we read around here and the "scientific data" found:laugh: ) are:

 

1)youth

2)good looks

 

when you make those two your only standards consider how much harder go you will have at meeting someone who is right for you.

I've always considered 5 average. Funny thing is I almost never mention this so called subjective 1-10 scale offline.

 

I feel my options are limited based on women not being physically attracted to me and being in the mid 30s I'm not getting younger. Most men look better physically and are in much better shape than I am. That is the way things are at the moment, though I'm trying to improve. On the other hand I am very good at academic subjects and am in better financial shape than the majority of men my age. I have some good and some not so good qualities just like most people.

 

I can't buy a date and I know other males similar to me who also have trouble. I'm not a female so I can't know what females think, but I don't see them wanting dates with nerd types like me very often. I can get females as friends though. Atractiveness is something that can grow on me. I can see someone and not be attracted at all. Then I talk to them and really like the consversation and suddenly I find them attractive. As a male, the inside is far more important than the outside. Unless the inside is good, I don't care is she is a 10 on the outside.

[MN randomguy]

Yes, I'm more visual than average.

And yes, I have traveled a lot. I love tall, Nordic men. I think I should move to rural Minnesota.

 

 

Nice. Just check with me so you don't wind-up in an Irish or Polish town. They're shorter than average. Good cross country and wrestling teams.

 

One other thing to add before I go to bed for the night.

 

KILL YOUR TV.

 

I think you'll always be disappointed if you're looking at actors in trying to decide what you find attractive. That's not a fair comparison. I was a 5.8 before I lost weight (according to http://www.hotornot.com). I'm into the younger Angelina Jolie, Uma Therman, Jennifer Anniston, and Natalie Portman. Not that it matters. I'll never meet them and probably wouldn't click with them if I did. Yeah, everyone wants someone painfully hot. I'd be tickled for above average.

[Isolde]

I like Irish and Polish guys too though. I don't mind short men at all.

 

I never watch tv and rarely movies. My version of what I like is very much based on real life.

 

But you are right--one doesn't get to choose whom one clicks with. I am very aware of that.

[prettybaby]

Maybe it's a regional thing? I definitely see handsome guys every time I go out here. I must say though, I used to live in America (small town, actually), and men were generally nothing to write home about. Sorry!

[kashmir]

You don't get it Kashmir. You obviously never will.

 

It's easier for you, like many others, to blame women and their "impossibly high standards" right? They're so damn superficial. Men aren't though, right?

 

Do you think for one second if I weren't half way attractive I'd even HAVE a choice in men? Are you serious?

 

If I were fat and ugly and stupid well nope - no one would look at me. I speak 3 languages, I'm a college graduate, I'm thin and not too hard on the eyes.

 

But guess what? I remember when I was ugly, too shy and didn't have a college degree.

 

You think men wanted to get to know me for my "insides?" Think again, honey.

 

But you know what I did date men who were considered "undesirable." Those who were short, fat, not successful, etc. etc.

 

I was looking for a REAL man.

 

Do you even think I'd have all the options that I did if I were ugly and fat?

 

No, effing way!

 

Thank god I was ok looking right? Thank god I was halfway smart, right?

 

I gave all kinds of men chances. WAY more men than would have given ME a chance if I were fat, ugly and dumb.

 

So save your pity.

 

The thing is that a lot of you men that complain that women don't give you the time of day would not even THINK of going for women that are are closer to your physical appeal level or a girl who is a bit chubby or seen as not super sexy by others even though you think she is cute. I have read men's posts here about how they secretly like some girl but their friends make fun of that and so they can't go through with it.

 

Of course there are superficial men who judge every woman only on her physical traits. That isn't me, though. I've gone for some girls who would be considered traditionally hot or even model-esque, but I've also gone for some average looking girls because I liked something deeper about them.

 

As far as overweight girls go, I'm not overweight. I'm in good shape. I think it's fair for me to expect the same from a girl. If I was fat and out of shape then I wouldn't be so justified in ruling out overweight girls.

 

Still, many girls, even ones with average looks, have demonstrated they they believe they have a boat load of guys to choose from and thus they can be picky. I've even heard overweight girls say this. Whether they really do or not, they THINK they can, and thus they will act accordingly.

[Viking]

I think part of the problem stems from everyone having a different opinion on what is appealing.

 

My ex is 5'1", not thin, but not chubby. Kinda pear shaped. I found that appealing and ended up dating her. The thing I missed the most about her was her body. I realized after a while I didn't like the person.

 

This go around, I'm going to do it right. I'm looking for someone who is both physically AND mentally stimulating.

 

I'm a nose and eyes guy. I like the petite girls, but also look at the tall ones and think, "Wow." if they're good looking. However, I am constantly drawn back to petite girls who are, in my opinion, cuter because I can put my arms all the way around them/pick them up easily. Not like a doll or something, but rather that I can hold them in my arms and know that I won't drop them.

 

I have no idea what I'd be rated on the 1-10 scale, frankly, it doesn't matter to me. I've gotten beyond worrying about my looks (God given, I shave, "do my hair", shower, groom etc). For me, its about the approach and just breaking through the shells that we both have up. Obviously alcohol helps, but since I can't drink at school, its all about the guts.

 

I plan on asking this super cute girl from a class out. She's got the nose, the eyes (almost navy blue), the petite height and lightweight frame, and she goes to the same church function I do (for college ages). So, I know she has similar beliefs and can tell that there is more to her than being incredibly hot (to me). Whether other guys think that she's hot, cute or average is of no concern to me.

 

Its about what I prefer and what I find attractive. Isolde, if I didn't know better, some of your posts come across as you almost being drunk and randomly posting whatever thought flitted through your mind. No offense, but if this is how you conduct yourself on a daily basis (saying/posting whatever you happen to think at the moment), you might come across as vapid and "just kinda there".

 

There are a lot of fat people, so that definitely cuts down on the "date-ables". I'm with you on that one. The side of town I work on is loaded with young brides, single moms, fat people and old people. The other side of town is where all the college girls shop because its closer to the college I go to.

 

In summary, you shouldn't worry about not finding any handsome men. They are out there. You're too wrapped up in it that you spend all of your time here instead of out meeting potential boyfriends. But then again, you've said time and time again, that you're not looking. If you're not looking, then why do you care?

 

I've been told I look like Brad Pitt but I've also been told I look like McCully Culkin (home alone). Some women like that (I've had a lot of my friends who are girls say they think I'm attractive) and others do the whole "friendzone" thing. I'm 5'8" and 160 and athletic. The conclusion? Its a case-by-case situation.

[calazhage]

I think girls say this all over the world. But I would agree there are more beautiful women...

 

But also, women wear make up, heels, dye their hair, etc..Here is a good example.. Very few women are naturally beautiful.

 

http://www.rense.com/general74/home.htm

 

Look at the women on top , and compare them to how they look after the makeover...

[Woggle]

I am not attracted to men so I can't even say what it is and isn't attractive but I don't think there are many attractive women around either. Then again I don't seem to have the same tastes most men do. The blonde bimbo types do not appeal to me. Pamela Anderson was never attractive and even in her pre-crazy days Britney Spears was just average if you ask me.

[prettybaby]

I think girls say this all over the world. But I would agree there are more beautiful women...

 

But also, women wear make up, heels, dye their hair, etc..Here is a good example.. Very few women are naturally beautiful.

 

http://www.rense.com/general74/home.htm

 

Look at the women on top , and compare them to how they look after the makeover...

That picture looks like a tranny convention!

[39388]

As far as overweight girls go, I'm not overweight. I'm in good shape. I think it's fair for me to expect the same from a girl. If I was fat and out of shape then I wouldn't be so justified in ruling out overweight girls.

 

Still, many girls, even ones with average looks, have demonstrated they they believe they have a boat load of guys to choose from and thus they can be picky. I've even heard overweight girls say this. Whether they really do or not, they THINK they can, and thus they will act accordingly.

So what if she is overweight or not in good shape? She may be a good person. People often grow on you.

 

This society devalues overweight women and men who are not fit. Maybe I see this more as a man who has never been fit. Overweight does not equal ugly in a women to me. In fact some women who are overweight I find very attractive.

 

Actions speak louder than words in all of this and many people of both sexes are overly picky about outward looks, yet overlook some of the most basic things like are they a good person inside. Now that would be a must for me, being a good person.

[Green]

I would consider myself a Handsome man but some days I look like crap and then other days I'm a lady killer getting looks every where I go like if I wear a nice suit.

[kashmir]

So what if she is overweight or not in good shape? She may be a good person. People often grow on you.

 

This society devalues overweight women and men who are not fit. Maybe I see this more as a man who has never been fit. Overweight does not equal ugly in a women to me. In fact some women who are overweight I find very attractive.

 

Actions speak louder than words in all of this and many people of both sexes are overly picky about outward looks, yet overlook some of the most basic things like are they a good person inside. Now that would be a must for me, being a good person.

 

I'm not going to date a girl who is overweight. I was obese once, but I got the motivation to lose the weight and become athletic. If I could do it, anyone can do it if they're motivated enough. If you don't mind being out of shape, that's completely fine, but that alone differs from my ideals and I don't think things would work out with compatibility as well as with physical attraction.

 

It really isn't asking much for a girl who does at least a bit to stay in shape, or at least put in the effort to eat healthy and exercise. Many women will require the same from men.

[39388]

I'm not going to date a girl who is overweight. I was obese once, but I got the motivation to lose the weight and become athletic. If I could do it, anyone can do it if they're motivated enough. If you don't mind being out of shape, that's completely fine, but that alone differs from my ideals and I don't think things would work out with compatibility as well as with physical attraction.

 

It really isn't asking much for a girl who does at least a bit to stay in shape, or at least put in the effort to eat healthy and exercise. Many women will require the same from men.

No two people have the same standards.

 

I know everyone looks at this a little differently. What "in shape" or "physically fit" means vaires a lot.

 

I have seen women post about this online and you get very different answers. At one end are those that say say you are ok if you can do normal everyday tasks without a problem. I'd "qualify" there. Others want you to be able to run for miles (part way) and be able to lift your bodyweight 10+ times or do a lot of pushups (haha nowhere close, maybe half my weight once and no pushups). I am starting to work on this. All this is a combination of gentics and what you put into it. My genetics are not as good in this area, but I don't want to completely blame them as I have done very little thoughout my life.

 

What I wonder is will a woman like that I am working on my physical fitness or will she only want me once I am physically fit which may take a lot of time.

 

What if a woman is overweight but she is exercising and eating halfway decently? I find those who are trying to improve themselves very attractive. Looks change, but what is inside you does not change as much.

[yongyong]

we can generally find pretty girl who works at the bar and that kind of place.

 

you want him to be handsome, to have good career and money. that's why it's so hard.

[BobSacamento]

I would say the majority of women take pretty good care of themselves. Even if they are overweight or hideous. So put enough make up on and wear enough dark clothes and anything can happen. It's all false advertisement.

 

The majority of men are pretty much oblivious to their hygiene.

 

Also I would say:

 

Fat Women > Fat men

 

Was that enough generalizations for one post?