I don't think my wife can love me any more

[Martian]

I've been dating my high school sweetheart from the age of 17. She got pregnant during our college years. I took a job, worked a lot to be able to her and the kid. Later we moved to a different country, but right about that time I found out she had an emotional affair (by getting suspicious and installing a keylogger). I was pissed, was considering divorce and almost left without her but couldn't. Our son was 2 years old then.

 

I took me a year to get through the shock.

 

Ever since then I often have the feeling that she doesn't love me at all. That I'm little more than a roommate to her. Fortunately we don't have big arguments.

 

We very rarely get intimate and I always have to initiate it myself. Sometimes 6 months pass without any sex. I would say it's about 3-6 times a year. I don't consider this normal at all. Roughly every 1-2 years I confront her about this, asking what sense does it make to live together if she doesn't love me. It's not only the sex that's missing, but also the cuddling, the kissing, the kind words. We've been sleeping in separate bedrooms for years. I thought that I'm not good enough in bed (although this didn't seem to be a problem when we were younger). I tried hard to educate myself about making it a better experience for her: She gets a nice massage, the way shes says she likes, then I try to go beyond the call of duty. She's still very passive. But I wouldn't mind that if I got more intimacy of any kind. It doesn't even have to be sex.

 

Her reasons usually change. Too much work around the house, her emotional needs are not met. I try to listen, although usually I'm very pissed because I always have a very strong feeling that she's bull****ting me. My reasons:

 

1) I've known her since we were 14. Lying to me is not that easy.

 

2) After I try to address the specific needs she was talking about like helping around the house, with the kids or paying more attention to her for a few months nothing changes, except for the excuses.

 

3) I don't trust her since her EA 7 years ago.

 

Last time it got really bad I shouted at her to stop bull****ting me there must be someone else. She admitted to having flirted and kissed with a bunch of men, but she denied that it went any further than that. She didn't tell me who they were only that I know them. I got really pissed. She was bull****ting me all along about the dish washing and the rest after all. That was it. I told her that I wanted a divorce. I would leave my job abroad, we would move closer to our back home, since I wanted to stay close to the kids (9yo boy, 2yo girl) and this seemed to be the only feasible arrangement.

 

The next day I went to work and was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. My hands were shaking, I couldn't eat or focus on work. I realized that I can't let the kids go. I can't let some second rate jerk be their daddy. I love my kids.

 

I told her. She agreed to go to counseling but then I got another job and we moved to yet another country. This was last summer.

 

After that as usual, we pretended that everything is normal. I'm trying hard to be a better husband, I kiss her, hug her, compliment her many times a day. Yet, she still feels distant.

 

I'm having the feeling that she just can't love me any more. My guess is that she's staying with me only because she thinks that it's best for the kids.

 

I'm desperate again. I thought that I could live like this for my kids' sake, but I don't feel I can. I can't love my wife if she can't love me back.

 

I googled "My wife doesn't love me anymore" found a post on this forum and it was chilling: "The main issue now is that she feels controled by everyone in her life and says she has always acted to please everyone else and now feels it's time to do what she wants."

 

That's exactly what my wife says.

 

I've decided that after 7 years I'm going to install a keylogger again.

[Geishawhelk]

Save your money.

See a lawyer.

serve her papers, and go for joint custody.

 

It's over.

[Martian]

Save your money.

See a lawyer.

serve her papers, and go for joint custody.

 

It's over.

 

It sounds bad doesn't it. But I can't just leave her a mess up my kids' life. That would be pretty selfish. If there is a 1% chance that we can turn this marriage around my kids deserve that I do my best to make it succeed.

 

Our situation is complicated since we're living abroad. It wouldn't be a "simple divorce" (if there is such a thing). I'm afraid that if we separated I would have to:

 

a) give up my dream job that I worked *very* hard for very long to get. We would move back closer to parents so that I can see my kids at least once a week. I would resent my wife for killing not only the marriage but my career.

 

b) I could stay here, they would move back and I'd have to cope with seeing my kids maybe 4 times a year. I'm not sure if I can cope with this. Moving again would also be very hard on my son (not only the divorce, but adjusting to a different culture that he left when he was 2).

 

c) I would try to keep my son with me where he is already adjusting and the schools are probably better. I don't know if my wife or the judge would let me do this (or my son would want it even though I think it would be best for him).

 

I installed the keylogger last night. If I don't find anything there is hope. Otherwise I don't know what I'm going to do. All my options seem pretty bad.

 

PS: Earlier I even considered giving up on the hope of a proper marriage and staying together for the kids' sake. That's kind of what's happening already but we come clean with each other and confess that it is the case. But I'm not sure if I'm capable of carrying on like that. I'm not the open marriage type guy either. I guess I'm just a stupid old fashioned family man who loves his kids.

[jasminetea]

I can never understand the need for a keylogger when a relationship has reached this stage. If you've reached the point of suspecting an(other) affair, the relationship is in its death throes anyway.

 

Look, you've got a wife that checked out of your relationship many moons ago. As far as saving the marriage - its actually irrelevant if she's having an affair or not. Do you see?

 

You have a lot of unanswered questions and you're not going to get answers to them from your wife or a keylogger or from LS. Go to a counsellor and discover them for yourself. Even if you decide to divorce, a counsellor will help you do this in the best possible way, not only for the children but for you and your wife also.

[Martian]

Sheesh people you're bringing me down. :\

 

Maybe she can't love me any more. But she still doesn't want to leave for some reason that is not entirely clear to me (and I can only speculate at this point).

 

Maybe I'm delusional, but that reason might be that she wants what she thinks is best for the kids: a family with a father.

 

And if that's true then who knows, maybe she's right.

 

A lot of people put up with a lot of crap for the sake of their children. In both of our families there is a history of abuse, alcoholism and gambling. I don't understand how women could put up with all those terrible things but very often they do (my own mother for example).

 

And maybe that's what we have to do for our children. No affection? No sex? Who cares! It's still a much better environment for the kids than many parents manage to provide.

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

A point or two. Your wife is not an ax murderer or probably is interested in dating one. Your kids will model your marriage. So when they get older they will have the same issues, bc its all they know. Better to divorce. Find someone who will love you. My parents divorced when I was 5. I've been with my wife for 30 years (married 29) in july. Do you think you wife wants someone that is not good for the children in her life?

[giotto]

Sheesh people you're bringing me down. :\

 

Maybe she can't love me any more. But she still doesn't want to leave for some reason that is not entirely clear to me (and I can only speculate at this point).

 

Maybe I'm delusional, but that reason might be that she wants what she thinks is best for the kids: a family with a father.

 

And if that's true then who knows, maybe she's right.

 

A lot of people put up with a lot of crap for the sake of their children. In both of our families there is a history of abuse, alcoholism and gambling. I don't understand how women could put up with all those terrible things but very often they do (my own mother for example).

 

And maybe that's what we have to do for our children. No affection? No sex? Who cares! It's still a much better environment for the kids than many parents manage to provide.

 

I think you are being delusional... I stayed with my wife for many years hoping she would turn things around... we were having little sex and I basically stayed for the children... but you know what happened? I got very resentful, isolated myself, lead a separate life. I could not bear being a family without being "whole" with my wife. That was cheating, as far as I was concerned. Obviously things deteriorated, children started asking questions... when things get to this stage, there is very little hope that they will change. Your wife - like mine - has disconnected emotionally from you. You can carry on pretending you are a 'family', but it will catch up with you sooner or later...

[jasminetea]

Sorry Martian, I know it's disappointing to not hear hope.

 

Your kids will bounce back and they'll adjust to a divorce/moving house/changing school etc. etc.

 

Your wife... well, there could be a myriad of reasons why she's staying, but they don't seem to include the only really relevant one - that she loves you.

 

ETS: I think you're creating excuses about the children, actually. I think you know that its not good for them to witness a marriage that has no physical and emotional affection. They will know its a sham and can you imagine the guilt that they could carry knowing you had stayed together, miserably, for them?

[Martian]

@giotto:

 

Yes, I'm afraid that if I completely lose hope our family might survive for a while, but would be very unstable. I'm afraid that any small crisis would just blow it apart.

 

@jasminetea:

 

So far I think the kids have been doing well. But the only reason is that I was somehow always hopeful that whatever rough patch we were in would be over soon and then our marriage would return back to normal.

 

Thank you all for the advice. I think I'll have to digest this a bit. I'll read marriagebuilder for a while (just found it recently).

 

The thought of my kids being taken away from me makes me want to throw chairs! I can't imagine not seeing my son every day. He's crazy smart but so vulnerable. I would do anything for him. This is my big weakness. And now my hands are shaking again.

[crostover99]

I know exactly what you are going through...at this point in my life my wife has emotionally checked out as well...I have tried to fix the problems but I believe that it has passed the point of no return...I wish it were different but hopes dont change things....If it were up to me we would still be working on our problems however she saw it differently and kicked me out (for the sake of the kids...LOL, I am a great father).

 

I have a three year old son and a two year old daughter, so I know how you feel when you do not want to be seperated from them...my soon to be x-wife will not even let me see the children and I can only call from 7:30PM-7:45PM....Like you I do not want to have someone else raise my children and I have been on the brink of insanity while being away from them....

 

You are not alone! I feel every bit of pain you do...and I am sorry!

[Martian]

Had a talk about all this with my wife. Summary: yep, I was right she stays because she doesn't want to harm the kids with a divorce. At least she admits this is part of the reason. (My guess: 99%). She had an abusive father, her mother divorced and never remarried, raised my wife alone. I can understand why my wife doesn't want her own children to go through all this, but I think this also means that she's never seen an example of a healthy marriage.

 

The other reason she says is that she still haven't given up the hope that our marriage gets back on track. I told her that after all these years I simply can't believe this any more and I can't go on with doing all the effort myself. Told her that our sex life has the same frequency and passion as dental visits and when I sort of pressure her into having sex I feel like she's only "prostituting herself" for the kids' sake. Told her I can't do this any more, this marriage is dead, let's not pretend otherwise.

 

BUT. I don't blame her for not loving me. I even respect her for doing all this sacrifice for the kids. I love my children and I can't let them go. So I offered her to stop pretending that our marriage can be resurrected, but let's raise the kids together. There won't be any sex, intimacy, kissing, hugging or anything. (Not that there was much in the past few years unless I initiated it.) But we stay a family and take care of the kids.

 

I don't know if we're going to be able to do this. Sadly it won't be much different from the past 9 years only with less delusion. I hope that delusion wasn't the last piece that held this family together.

[Chat]

Are you for real?

 

What you are saying is that instead of putting your kid through a divorce you would rather live in a lifeless, not intimate, loveless marraige for the 'sake of your child'

 

Im sorry but you two are being completley self centred!! You both are clearly in a comfort zone and you are either too scared/too lazy/too something to get out or to see that your child growing up in an environment - one that will clearly lead to you both seeing other people - affairs - a marriage that will be COLD and A LIE as the example for your childs life!! What the hell - go to counselling - BOTH OF YOU - I just dont understand the logic nor reason! Oh we will stay together and pretend for our kid who will watch us live this life - that wont screw them up but being honest, divorcing and being with other people who will bring out the best in ourselves - that will screw our child up!!

 

Please seek counselling - you both obviously cant see beyond this whole divorce stigma your both attatching to the situation - for the sake of your child - seek a professionals opinion.

[Martian]

Are you for real?

 

What you are saying is that instead of putting your kid through a divorce you would rather live in a lifeless, not intimate, loveless marraige for the 'sake of your child'

 

In my case that divorce would potentially mean living on a different continent than my kids.

 

I see your point and this may sound surreal, but despite our dysfunctional marriage I think we managed to provide for a nice family environment for the children through all these years. I doubt that they've noticed anything. I doubt that any of our friends or even close family members have noticed any of our problems. I bet that if you met us, you couldn't tell that we're not a "normal" family. (Although browsing through this forum one would assume that sexless marriages are the norm. )

 

I would say that breaking up a family just becuase Daddy doesn't feel loved would be selfish and self centered.

 

I had several Indian friends who lived in arranged marriages (in some cases both PhDs!) and they managed to have decent families. It's only in individualistic Western cultures (and only very recently) that everlasting mutual love is supposed to be requirement for keeping a family together.

 

That said yes, counseling and divorce are both options I'm looking into (I have to at this point), but because we're abroad both are more complicated than they would normally be.

 

And if you see contradictions in my posts that's because I'm torn and desperate.

[Chat]

Im confused as to why a break up would mean living in seperate countries? Couldnt you both agree to live in the same country for the sake of your child instead of your marriage? And yes I have friends in arranged marriages too - BUT - its not Western Culture - and unless you have raised your child to think so - it would not be normal for him.

 

Im sorry at the passion directed at you on this subject but I am just like your child - I was raised in a loveless home - and it is damaging - my idea of what a relationship should be was so warped! Please seek counselling - at least to put things in place for you both should the D come and to address how to work around issues.

 

I understand your torn but I think you cheapen your relationship with your child by staying in a relationship which will eventually leave you dead inside - and it will - you think you feel rejected and unloved now? Wait until resentment kicks in. And yes maybe if I met you - you would seem normal - BECAUSE so many married couples are unhappy - even if they are pretending - people can usually see - that these days is what is normal.

 

LOVE yourself dude. Seriously.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Seriously what are you smoking??? Because I need to try that!!!

 

Dude your only gonna hurt yourself by doing that, you both agree your only staying for the kids then what will you both see other people on the side when one's not looking because both of your needs are not getting met, you have a loveless marriage and now you have a facade of a marriage. Dude I dont like divorce anymore than you do but if your wife got issues that she WILL NOT SOLVE, that should be your factor to leave.

 

Her mother was the same way but yet she hasnt asked for MC or counciling to make things right, did she think you would live like that forever, who could exist within a loveless marriage? Could you condone cheating? I mean what would be the point of staying just for the kids, you have a life dont waste time sitting there moping in a loveless marriage if your not happy then bounce.

 

Sounds to me that she has alot of issues and if she doesnt want to fix them then by all means look out after yourself, sit your kids down and explain that we wont be a family unit anymore. Your mother and I are not compatible anymore and we will live at two seperate households, preferably the kids are with you and she'll have visitation. lol.

[Nikki Sahagin]

What do you think sets a better example to children?

 

Two seperated parents or a single-parent who walked away from a situation that wasn't working and shows that one can cope alone and be strong and sufficient and happy in this way?

 

Or two parents who barely speak or fight or argue and quietly loathe each other?

 

Sometimes I believe children GENUINELY can't see when somethings amiss...but as they get older they certainly do. They wonder why mum and dad never kiss or go on dates or dress up for each other or look each other in the eye or say I love you. And this sends an even more damaging message to your kids; that this passive-aggressive ABUSE, yes abuse is okay. It's okay because you're married and together - even if you're miserable, even if you feel lonely, even if you're screaming on the inside. That is what children DON'T need to know. They need to know if a relationship doesn't work, that it's okay to leave it and be on your own. That you'll do just fine.

[lostsunsets]

You are staying for the children. Wonderful. You are going to raise them in a loveless home. And no, loving only them is not enough. You are sentencing them to repeat the very marriage that is breaking your heart. Only they will do it to other men. Why can't people understand. You are raising the next generation of husbands and wives. If they learn about marriage from bad marriages, what kind of marriage do you think they're going to have? BAD. But you can continue to believe that you are doing this for the children.

[Martian]

Maybe you guys have a point. Neither of us have seen particularly successful marriages in our own families. (She was raised alone by her mother, I had an alcoholic father who recovered when my mother was threatening him with a divorce only to have a brutal depression and serious gambling issues later.)

 

I've seen very few marriages from "behind the scenes" but none of them was "normal". If people let you close enough you always find out about the addictions, the infidelity, the lack of sex, the unhappiness. To me a perfectly working marriage is simply a myth.

 

You might think it's impossible to live in a marriage without love but that's how I've been living for years. I'm not sure I can carry on forever without hope but I do know it's possible.

 

I may not have been a good husband in our first years. I worked a lot and I think I took her for granted when she had to adjust to life home alone with the baby. I feel a lot of resentment in her. But I think that I've changed in the past few years. I pay attention to her. I go the extra mile. I compliment her and buy her presents. I try to keep a much better work-life balance. Yet I don't see that it makes a difference. I've lost hope, wanted to divorce her but couldn't do it. This was early 2007. I had no way of getting custody of the kids. She would take them back to the sh**hole that I worked hard to get away from and didn't want my children to experience. Divorced with 2 kids, what kind of stepfather would she find in that place? Believe me even though I failed as a husband I'm a very good father. I don't think anyone could do a better job than me loving and raising my own children.

 

To me leaving all 3 members of my family just because I have problems with my wife is not a straightforward decision. Would you leave your wife and son who you love because your teenage daughter resents you and you can't seem to change her?

 

My self confidence was in the dumps (is my d*** too small? am I disgusting her? does she have someone else?), but I couldn't give up. Instead I started working out, lost 30 lbs and doubled my efforts of being a model husband.

 

None of this turned out to be much use.

 

After reading the marriagebuilders site I think in the past years she's been the "Taker" and I was the "Giver".

 

I don't give up easily. I'll invest the time and try to find out her reasons/rationalizations for her behavior. We're going to talk. A lot.

 

Then I'll decide if our marriage can be saved and do what I think is best for the kids.

[lostsunsets]

That's reasonable. Your wife might be in a comfort zone with you. She may hate change. You may want a trial separation to see if she will think outside of the box. If she doesn't have a problem after leaving. Transition to divorce. Ease into it and the children will adjust. You must always try to portray marriage positively with them. They may not marry . But if they do, you want to give them a fighting chance. We have been married since 1980. Have there been tough times? Oh yeah. But we're together and we love one another. We are literally best friends and lovers. It can be done. You can find that one if your wife can't be.

[signedin2008]

Does she work? Where did she "kissed" all these other men?

 

How are you sure that she is not continuing cheating with one (or more) of them?

[NewSunrise]

As a woman, it may take a while for a woman to decide. But when a woman decides she has "emotionally" checked out of a relationship, there is nothing a man can do to bring her back. She's done.

 

The only reason why a woman sticks around is financial support. Kid or no kids. Hate to be blunt. But if the guy she's having an A with has the means to take care of her, she'd serve you with divorce papers in a new york minute.

 

For her to tell you she'd kiss other men means she has no respect for you, let alone herserlf.

 

Save your money for your kid. Your child will be fine. And so will you...without her.

 

Good luck.

[crostover99]

Ease into it and the children will adjust. You must always try to portray marriage positively with them. They may not marry .

 

 

What if 1 side truly loves the other, has seen the error of his ways and the other refuses to budge? What kind of example is this for children ....Love hurts? Keep walls up cause if you love someone they may not love you?

[NewSunrise]

What if 1 side truly loves the other, has seen the error of his ways and the other refuses to budge? What kind of example is this for children ....Love hurts? Keep walls up cause if you love someone they may not love you?

Marriage requires TWO people, not one. You can't force someone to love you. They either do or they don't.

 

Love is a gift. Give without expecting it in return. This is the best gift you have as a human being---the ability to love. For some, they have yet to understand such gift.

 

Children learn by examples. Examples, bad or good, unfortunately will be something they will learn to decipher as they grow. The stronger, selfless parent or caretaker who "consistently" provide good examples along with love will help shape them as adults.

 

You can't always protect kids from hurt. It's part of life. Processing hurt and pain is as much a process as love and kindness. They need to experience all. Afteall, life is education. Trust that kids know more than we give them credit.

 

You can either teach kids and allow them to become part of the process (depending on their age) OR they'll learn from someone else. Wouln't you rather be the teacher or would you shun them from what life is all about just to protect them?

[Martian]

Does she work? Where did she "kissed" all these other men?

 

She's a stay at home mom. I guess these things probably happened at some parties.

 

She admitted 2 years ago to having kissed men 4 years ago (IIRC), I asked who they were, she refused to tell, then I stopped communicating with her immediately and told her that I wanted a divorce. (We started talking that night because I felt our marriage was in trouble and not improving.)

 

She wrote me an email after this saying that she felt guilty. Those men often wanted more and so did she, but she didn't give in b/c she was thinking of her family and me. And that she still hated herself the day after.

 

I'm afraid that if there were even more serious things to come clean about she would be simply too scared to start mention them. I think she knows that it would probably quickest way to end this marriage.

 

How are you sure that she is not continuing cheating with one (or more) of them?

 

She having some sort of affair would explain a lot. So I started looking a few days ago but didn't find anything yet.

 

Also we've moved to a different country last summer. Unless it was an EA it would be very hard to keep it up I guess.

 

So I don't know. I don't trust her 100% but she told me there's nothing going on and my BS detector didn't go off.

[NewSunrise]

I don't trust her 100% but she told me there's nothing going on and my BS detector didn't go off.

It will take time to completely trust her 100%.

 

If she's serious about keeping the marriage intact as you are, whe will give it her 100% to earn your trust. You'll knowit as much as you'll know when it's time to let go so YOU can move on and begin the healing and rebuilding.