I don't think my wife can love me any more

[signedin2008]

She's a stay at home mom. I guess these things probably happened at some parties.

 

How about setting some boundaries?

 

1) No more partying, at least now without you being there.

 

2) Open and honest. Allowing you to have all her password to email, cell, etc.

 

3) Don't go anywhere (even lunch with her girl friends) without you going along or her bring one of your kids along.

 

4) No more partying (again). What does a married woman going out partying by herself without her husband?

[Martian]

How about setting some boundaries?

 

I'm more and more convinced that infidelity is not the problem.

[Martian]

Last week I told her that I can't go on like this any more. I tried to hold my distance, but asked her to talk to me at the end of the day. I was trying to find out if I can save this marriage. It didn't happen until yesterday, since she always fell asleep. (I don't blame her the kids are a handful.)

 

In the meantime I was researching my options. I looked into trial separation (we might run into visa issues and renting two apartments would probably take about 50% of my income. Still a possibility.). I looked into marriage counseling (not many English speaking options, the best one I found so far is too new-agey for my tastes. Still an option though.).

I started reading books about being a divorced Dad. I also read a lot of marriagebuilders and the archives on this message board.

 

One thing I noticed was that I can't think straight about her and then I realized how much I'm still in love with her. This gave me hope, because being in love never hurts when you're trying to save a marriage, huh?

 

So yesterday I told her how I felt and I insisted on talking about us when the kids are asleep. We kissed and hugged a lot which felt great. I also wanted to hear about how she feels and what she needs. I decided I'm going to be the best listener evar that night. And yep, it turned out I'm not the perfect husband I thought I was: the way I talk to her is often hurtful, I often come back grumpy from work and she takes it on herself, I still don't spend enough time with the kids. She needs more affection.

 

This is great I thought, I can improve on these and I need more affection too.

 

And then she asked about what's on my list of needs. I told her that the she constantly refusing sex is hurting me and we obviously have different sex drives but if she read the book I bought her more than two years ago it wouldn't be so difficult to deal with. And that I too need more affection and kind words.

 

And then something happened which I think is a symptom of what I believe is wrong in our marriage. She suddenly said that I should stop because we're talking about her needs tonight. But she just asked me 5 minutes ago! Oh well.

 

Then we went to bed, finally in the same bedroom! She asked for a massage and I was happy to give it to her. But in the end I became terribly horny and it was obvious. I felt somewhat ashamed because I didn't want that night to be about sex. Still I was hoping that she would remember what was on the top of my list and have mercy on me, but no, she went to sleep. Can't blame her it's been a long day.

 

In the morning she woke up smiled at me. I looked at her and became very horny again. I thought about whether it's a good idea to bring up sex at that point, but I felt that I didn't communicate well enough how important it would be for me and so I asked her. Nope. She's too sleepy. No problem, I can understand, it's been a long night.

 

But I can't deny that I felt grumpy afterwards. Even though can understand why she's tired and doesn't want to have sex when she shut me down during our talk I felt that my theory about her being in a "Taker" phase is spot on.

 

No matter. I love her and I will be a better husband.

 

I also realized that we need to spend much more time together. I'm going to work on that too.

[Chinook]

By the end of this thread, I was nearly in tears for you. I'm sorry, I really hope it works out. But I can't help but feel like you are finding newer and more creative ways of giving. She is trying a little I guess and it seems there are small chinks of light that can be worked on. But I feel a little worried for you. I don't know whether she will put in the effort - one night's talking isn't going to do it for sure. But she needs to think about your needs too as well as her own. Part of being in a partnership is about making the other person happy and feeling like you WANT to do that, even if you're tired. It is not about feeling obliged and ignoring things. I'm sorry but she still seems to be taking alot.

 

I hope things improve I really do because you seem like a really sincere guy who has his family high on the list of his priorities.

[jasminetea]

The thing that stands out most for me, Martian, is your wife's unwillingness to try to meet your needs in the slightest. From everything you've said, you will try your hardest to give her what she wants, but it really seems that she won't return the favour.

 

Do you think she respects you and your needs?

[giotto]

catch-22 situation... lack of communication, different expectations... I've had that in my marriage... when things started to go wrong in my marriage, i.e. sex becoming less and less, instead of talking to each other (well, the wife has always been a very reserved person, with her own issues), I got angry, grumpy and resentful, which, in turn, meant that my wife found me less and less attractive and didn't want to have sex with me. Unfortunately, instead of talking, we shut down. It will take ages for your wife to regain the trust in you (even if she was the one who "cheated"). It doesn't matter that she is withdrawing sex from you, she is not even contemplating having sex with you. You have two choices: change, be a good father, good husband, stop being grumpy. Or file for divorce. If you decide to wait, be aware that it can be a very long process... it might take months and you'll have to stick to your plan. Forget your willy for a long time... I'm in the same position. My wife is recovering from years of emotional upheaval. Although the blame is shared, women are different and my wife has to feel emotionally connected again to have sex with me. I understand that. I've backed off. How long I'm prepared to wait is another matter...

[Martian]

By the end of this thread, I was nearly in tears for you. I'm sorry, I really hope it works out. But I can't help but feel like you are finding newer and more creative ways of giving.

 

I might not be doing it right... (Definitely not as good as I thought I was.)

 

Remember that you're only seeing one side of the story. This is how I feel about what's happening, but she probably sees it in a very different way.

 

Let's give it some time.

[Martian]

Do you think she respects you and your needs?

 

I can't figure her out. I feel that she had a lot of resentment in her. What I still don't understand is why she didn't leave? She said it wasn't just because of the kids but also because she hasn't given up hope completely.

 

And I think we built a lot of bad habits throughout the years. We let the marriage deteriorate to a point where it takes a lot of effort to heal. If it's even possible.

 

When we started dating she played hard to get for a very long time and I was putting in a huge amount of effort to impress her. When we started as a family and I started to work a lot it all changed pretty quickly and we could never recover. I'm not sure but I think she expects that sort of early courtship again, when I spent all my time with her and gave her absolutely everything.

[Martian]

I got angry, grumpy and resentful, which, in turn, meant that my wife found me less and less attractive and didn't want to have sex with me. Unfortunately, instead of talking, we shut down.

 

Yeah, I think a similar thing happened to us. Basically we both withdrew almost completely. I first thought this was a fact of life when you start having kids. Then about 3 years ago I realized how much we've been missing out on and decided that we need to rebuild our marriage. It's been a struggle with very few success stories ever since.

[lostsunsets]

Martian, She asked you for a massage, you gave it to her. She fell asleep. "That's Ok, its been a long day. She wakes up. You ask for it. She says she's not awake. "That's Ok its been a long night. She is using sex as a weapon. She feels she has very little control in her life. So this is her control point. Because you have not delivered complete happiness to her, she will be in control of this. I'm sure you love her. Lets break this down. You want to talk and work on your marriage. She avoids it like the plague. You are willing to find out and work to meet her needs. She is not interested in your needs.

 

How about setting a bar. You mentioned you bought her a book to read 2 years ago. See if she picks it up. How hard is it to read a book? What level of commitment to your happiness does it show when a SAHM won't make the slightest effort on her part to improve the relationship that is supposed to be the most important in her life.

 

Read your first post from a week ago. I do not see one bit of difference from that post to your last one. You give her what she wants. And when you ask for a physical show of your love, she says her needs aren't being met. It's time to man up Matian. You provide a living for your family. You provide love and emotional support for her. And she gives you jack.

 

Henny Youngman had a great joke about this. That fits you to a tea.

 

My wife satisfys me every night. I get romantic and ask if she would like to fool around. She says "no". And I say "I'm satified".

 

This would be funny if it wasn't so true in your case.

 

My wife had fallen into the same habit when we were first married. Her father died right after our son was born. She fell into a depression. She never wanted sex or intimacy. This went on for 6 months. I tried everything to snap her out of it. Finally one saturday. I got up packed up my car with my stuff left and moved in with my brother. She freaked, she would call constantly. She would bring our son down and he would lie in his car seat and play while she would want to have sex. After about 6 weeks I moved back. She still had depression issues but our intimacy returned and actually helped her depression. It wasn't about her not getting her needs met. It was about her willingness to accept my love and to respond to it appropriately with her love.

 

Did she have a right to be depressed about her father dying? Absolutely! Did she have a right to destroy our family and future happiness with that depression. Absolutely not! We hung in there and when prozac was invented, tada, no more depression issues.

 

My point is. Your wife has never lost you. You have showed her over the whole length of your marriage that you will carry all the water in regards to intimacy and that she will use your love for her and your family to control you and make you feel that you are not meeting her needs. You can continue on with this and live that life. Or you can try to see if it is her complacency, and out of balance picture of reality regarding what happiness is, by taking a risk in you marriage to save it. Is it a risk? Absolutely. You may move, and she may be completely happy. Or you may move and she may be completely miserable. That's the risk. Regarding affordability. Don't go and rent your own place. Move in with a couple of guys that want to split rent. Put what you need into storage. Do this as an interim step before renting your own pad. That way it won't be that much of a financial inconvenience until you find out if its permanent or not. Is this worth considering?

[jasminetea]

Lostsunsets has said what I wanted to, but didn't know how to phrase. It seems to me that she's lost respect and the continual giving in to her can't do anything but further that.

 

Setting a bar is a good idea, and I can see her improving enough for you to stay, but not enough to improve your marriage as much as it needs. By moving out, you'd at least get some perspective for yourself as well as jolting Mrs Martian out of her complacency. Its got to be worth checking to see if any suitable places are available.

[Martian]

So I'm still here (which is good and bad I guess).

 

There was some progress. We sleep in the same bedroom now. I'm being careful about staying extra nice to her. Told her that I want her to have a good experience in bed and asked her about what she needs. And I did deliver! Massages: check. Multiple orgasms: check! In the past 2-3 weeks I got about 3-4 handjobs in return which doesn't sound much but it made me the happiest man on those nights. (Hey it's much more than what I was used to!)

 

However, I have to be honest, our sex overall life is very frustrating. I truly believe now that she doesn't have an affair, she simply does not desire sex. (With me that is. I think she still masturbates.)

The problem is that when I'm trying to make love to her, her lack of desire shows up in so many ways and the whole experience is so frustrating that I just want to rush out of the bedroom (but I don't!).

 

I'm convinced that she's not having an affair. What we have is a classical sexless marriage (<10 times a year) and I looked it up: more than 15% of the couples live in such marriages. We talked about this and turns out that several of her friends live in such marriages where the wife has lost all her sex drive.

 

I can imagine that if nothing happened this would go on for many-many years (heck it already did). No divorce, no arguments, we're being nice to each other but have no sex or if I occasionally push for it, we have sex that probably isn't worth having.

 

I thought a lot about this and I came to the conclusion that I probably can't live like this. Not because of the lack of sex, but I simply don't feel loved without intimacy.

 

Another problem I see that if there are some good signs we're both prone to reverting back to our old routine and stop putting in the effort. This has happened before. I'm convinced now that this is a very serious issue and we have to shake things up.

 

I'm arranging for a babysitter so we can go to marriage counseling. Finding a good English speaking baby sitter isn't easy in this town and finding a good counselor is even harder. But I'm on it.

 

(I also want to find out if she's going to read the book I gave her. She asked me to stop bugging her about it. On my gloomier days I think about separating if she doesn't. Not because I want a divorce, but because I think this marriage needs a kick in the pants.)