Unsure about the next step

[soserious1]

Spineman. wherever did you get the idea that you are supposed to be happy

with 3 small kids while slogging your way thru medical school?

 

You've chosen to have not one,not 2 but 3 children while undergoing what is probably some of the toughest training their is... this is a time of strife and of a lot of sacrifice on your part.....and on the part of your wife and on the part of the 3 little children that you both chose to bring into the world.

 

You are attracted to this fellow student because she shares in your life's work and is also immersed in it. Time with your wife pales in comparison, after all her world consists of parent teacher conferences and Talking elmo.

 

What you need to keep in mind is that it won't always be this way..you'll get thru residency, your kids will get a little older,there will be more time,more money, more sleep. The day will come when you will be thrilled to walk thru the front door of your house and leave talk of the practice of medicine at the front door as you immerse yourself in the lives of your family.

 

DR, DR marriages can work beautifully... but they can also become some of the most cold blooded,competitive, horrific marriages going as the career needs and desires of 2 really bright MD's often clash.

[Spineman696]

TowninNYC - yes we have talked about these things. The first thing we did was figure out where we'd be without any baggage that either of us brought into this thing. Then we added the baggage. She is someone that I have the potential to love, it's not there nor do I believe it can be unless we were to get closer than simply emotional. However she feels the same way. I do have 3 kids and although she is crazy about them, would want her own one day. I can see that happening in the future if she wants them. I wouldn't mind anymore kids...but these are all things that we decided should be talked about in the distant future if at all. B/c doing this will just bring us closer right now, when that will do neither of us any good.

 

For us to even have a shot it will have to be a long way down the road. I owe it to my wife to try to make this work, and if it doesn't...I will need a lot of time before I will be ready to jump into that relationship. I will need to live alone for awhile for sure, need to get used to that and come to terms with what my life is like from now on without them. Only after that could it ever work out between us...so the odds are definitely stacked against it.

 

And yes I realize that medical school is putting a huge strain on my marriage. However, things were heading downhill before we got here for about a year. So while school has acted like a catalyst to our problems, it is not the cause of them. My wife and I need to see if we can work this stuff out...if so great. If not, I may be single forever and alone...or it may work out with the OW later down the road. There is no way to tell, it is all chance.

[theBrokenMuse]

And I agree that I have to put my kids first, but let me ask you this...did any of you grow up around 2 parents who fought all of the time. So much so that you would lock yourselves into the closet and cry because you were afraid? Neither of them were ever abusive to each other physically, or to any of us...but plenty of verbal abuse. You sit through that and tell me that it's better for parents to stay together for the kids!!!!

 

I prayed that my parents would get a divorce when I was younger, prayed so hard...so that they would be happy. B/c then I could be happy. It never happened, and guess what...they are still unhappy. I don't know....I don't want to hurt her and if I can avoid it I will...but I will not put my children through the same hell I had to go through.

 

I lived through hell with fighting parents and a *very* abusive father who ended up with an addiction problem but let's face it, that's NOT even a stone's throw of what you have been describing here on loveshack to us. You've mentioned nothing about you and your wife verbally abusing one another and everything being a complete dysfunctional mess at home. Are things really *that* bad or are you starting to rewrite history a little bit in order to feel less guilty for indulging in an EA? In any case, it sounds like you and your wife really need to learn better communication skills. Schedule that couples therapy appointment, ASAP. You are treading on very dangerous ground right now and it could end up totally messing up not only your life but your kids lives too.

 

The things that I am saying are not excuses to be used to justify a divorce. They are legitimate concerns that I have about my marriage and my family. I am not trying to get out of anything the easy way...if I were there would be no reason for me to be on here would there?

 

I'm curious, if you aren't dabbling with the idea of leaving, why post in the divorce and legal separation area rather than 'marriage'? One might consider than a Freudian slip. Oh, and yes there would be a reason for you (and by you I mean posters in general) to be here other than trying to find solutions or get actual advice and we see it here quite often. People do often post here for validation purposes. I'm not saying that is what you are doing in particular but that your assumption was coming from a faulty premise.

[Spineman696]

You are correct that what I experienced as an child is nothing compared to what is going on with my wife and I. I used this as an example to try and get those people saying that it is never ok to split up a family to look at both sides of the issue. I was not saying that we are this bad and we need to divorce.

 

I also never said I wasn't toying with the idea of divorce. I said that I was not using these things as an excuse for a divorce. If I were going to do that I would already have done it. What it all boils down to is that this is between my wife and I. I don't want to leave her and I do...both at the same time.

 

I understand your trepidation over my intentions I suppose. But they are unfounded...I did not come here for validation. I don't need that, when I make a decision I make it and then I stick with it. And generally I don't need much help with decisions. However, this one is so vastly important that I wanted to get some feedback from other people who have experienced similar things.

 

I understand this is dangerous ground, I truly do...but I cannot just jump off of it b/c it's dangerous. I will not be making any rash decisions, in either direction.

[pelicanpreacher]

Spineman, earlier in your thread you mentioned that your wife wanted you to quit medical school?!! I think she has started to fully realize what type of life she'll lead as the wife of a doctor and, in envisioning the future of even lonelier days to come, has become resentful you and this marriage to the point that your overtures go unrequited because she believes that you either can't or won't sustain the effort. Yes, your marriage is in deep trouble and without counseling, especially during your most stressful years to come both academically and professionally, without a serious effort to commit to one another you are destined for divorce.

 

Subconciously you see this which I believe allows you to project your feelings into your relationship with the soon to be doctor OW who you feel you can better identify with to the point that you can actually visualize a future including children with her. While true that you and OW have interests in common in certain aspects you also found something within your wife that thrilled you to point of proposing (at 19?!!) and remaining for 9 yearsthat deserves your deepest introspection. You mentioned that maybe you got married too young and, though that may be the case, you produced 3 children in 9 of years of this relationship which must change your perspective when considering options for the future. Your best bet would be to rededicate yourself to being the best husband and father that you can be by putting away all childish things and taking on this marriage like a man on a mission.

 

Your current problem though is that you are treating your academic endeavor as part of your socialising experience to achieve respite from the unhappiness you find at home which makes you vulnerable to overstepping your boundaries within your marriage. Your wife has subconciously felt the emotional distance eminating from you as you use this OW as your release valve and is beginning to feel bereft when the effort you extend on her behalf comes off looking like a chore with the what you have left. She, in turn, is becoming more and more contemptuous of your medical school training without fully realizing that the core reason for your ebbing feelings towards her is because you are getting your emotional needs met elsewhere so your honesty at this point, by divulging what has happened and is happening in your marriage may just be the wake up call you both need to shake off the blinders of your mutually destructive attitudes and behavior to pull each other back from the brink and stop taking what you mean and all you two do for each other for granted.

 

On the work front, you must start treating everyone that you encounter at medical school and elsewhere as if they were your patients instead of your colleagues. You currently don't associate your behavior with your OW in any dire unethical manner only because the law allows it for if the law didn't, you wouldn't, right?! Should you shun personal involvement with other professionals with the same ethical stance you would take in treating your patients then you'd be forced to seek and meet your needs exclusively with your wife while conversely considering hers when you have the urge to selfishly indulge in activities that exclude her in an effort to provide some measure of reciprocity for all she gives you in return. If you can discipline yourself to maintain this effort then maybe you'll have a chance to reconnect again and, miracle of miracles, become the same man you once were when you first got married. The notion that you can't be the same man you were many years ago is true in the physical and emotional sense that we all grow and mature with age but the core being that defines our spirit never changes or ever grows old so take time with your wife to smell the roses and be young at heart again.

 

Start tomorrow off by kissing your wife, looking deep into her eyes and telling her that today, because you love her, you are going to do something special just for her so get ready for your surprise when you come home!

[Guitarjeff]

It would enable some of you to make better comments if you read all of the posts.

 

Walking away from my marriage is a completely different thing that walking away from my children and their mother. If this is a road that my wife and I end up going down, and this will be decided by both of us in counseling, then I will not be leaving them forever....and I'm not sure where you get the idea that I want to get my MD and get outta here. I will take care of my family for the rest of my life regardless of what does or does not happen in the future. They are my responsibility - I can't imagine them going without anything they needed and I will never let that happen...to ANY of them, my wife included. Even if she becomes my ex-wife. So the idea that I will run off and avoid some divorce court judge is ridiculous.

 

What is going on is something I have thought about, an EA that I am involved in, but it is not something that I have said is better than my marriage or that I have decided to leave my marriage for. And I agree that I have to put my kids first, but let me ask you this...did any of you grow up around 2 parents who fought all of the time. So much so that you would lock yourselves into the closet and cry because you were afraid? Neither of them were ever abusive to each other physically, or to any of us...but plenty of verbal abuse. You sit through that and tell me that it's better for parents to stay together for the kids!!!!

 

I prayed that my parents would get a divorce when I was younger, prayed so hard...so that they would be happy. B/c then I could be happy. It never happened, and guess what...they are still unhappy. Kids out of the house, dad working in a different city living in a travel trailer, mom working at the local school living by herself!!! You think that's better than if they had both decided 20 years ago that they should split up, and each found suitable spouses???

 

 

I understand how I sound to you all who have been hurt by a spouse. My only concern is that you try to look at this issue separate from yours, b/c it is just that...a separate issue. I am not the person who hurt you...however I may be the person to hurt my wife in the future. I don't know....I don't want to hurt her and if I can avoid it I will...but I will not put my children through the same hell I had to go through.

 

I will do what I think is best for my family always...if that is sucking it up and being unhappy for the rest of my life, I can do that. But ONLY if it will better my family. If it is my wife and I getting a divorce then we will do that, but only if it betters my family. And to think that every situation is just like yours, and that every person has the same motives as the person who hurt you is very inconsiderate and foolish.

 

I have stated in this post what my plans are to handle this right now. I will state them here again as some people are much to impulsive to read what's gone on...they just want to respond with whatever comes to the mind.

 

I will go to counseling with my wife. When she comes back into town I will tell her that I need counseling and I think we need it as well. I will tell her that I have been having some problems that I need to talk to someone about. We talked this weekend about the problems we had been having and initiated some steps to try and make things a little better...steps like spending a certain amount of time together every week. And this time together is spent with each other, not doing something that the other person wants to do. Even if this is just driving around together talking, or in silence. We will also be taking some time out each week for ourselves...for things that we want to do.

 

I have no intentions of running off with anyone, nor do I plan on leaving my wife anytime soon. However, I am not ruling this out b/c that is just as foolish as saying, "I want a divorce, don't even want to think about it...no counseling, no questions, just let me out." - they are both extreme stances only on opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

The things that I am saying are not excuses to be used to justify a divorce. They are legitimate concerns that I have about my marriage and my family. I am not trying to get out of anything the easy way...if I were there would be no reason for me to be on here would there? So please, enough with the disparaging comments if you can stand it. Help is always appreciated, but people that are not open to looking at both sides of an issue with an open mind are generally not very helpful when it comes to making any kind of decision. And I realize that for many people here who have been hurt, this may not be possible...and I understand that. But there is no need to assume things and make blanket statements based on those assumptions.

 

In other words, your different, and it really will be good for your kids to have their home split up. Sorry, your statement changed nothing. Anyone and everyone can say the same thing. yes, my parents fought, and there was a lot of it, but they stuck it out ESPECIALLY for the kids, they found a way to make it work because they made vows to each other and they brought children in to the world. I wold not trade growing up with them married for anything, even though they fought terrible sometimes. Marriage is not easy, nothing worth while is. You don't need to do anything, you can DECIDE in your own mind that you will see your life in a different way and you will be happy. Happiness is a state of mind and depends on your outlook on the situation you find yourself in. If your wife is not asking for a divorce, what's the problem with her? She knows your not perfect and she knows she's not perfect. You are doing something improper for your marriage right now, and it's flat out wrong. You are already in a relationship or you wouldn't be here with this. You are already having feelings for another person outside your marriage. You are most certainly looking for justification to dump your family for another woman, that's fairly clear. You are not just being unfaithful to your wife, you are being unfaithful to your children. go on and use the excuse that your kids will be better off having their home ripped apart, it may make you feel better about what you are doing, uh, that's why it's used so often by cheaters who break their families up. About 90 percent of the cheaters who break their families up use that excuse, you might as well too. I can see why it's used, because it's hard to face that you have devastatd your childrens lives for what you think will be greener pastures. NOPE, I never wished my Mom and dad got a divorce, and they were married for 47 years before my dad died of cancer, and she was 14 when they got married and he was 23. They married in 1945 and He died in 1991. They had their oldest Daghter die of lupus at 12 years old, faced my Dad being an alchohlic, faced my Dad having his hand cut off at Chrysler where he worked for 30 years and raised 6 kids. You bet they had some fights, some real wicjed ones, but they stuck it out and raised their kids and I'm damn glad they did. That's what made me stick by my kids through my divorce and get custody of them, and I wouldn't trade my sacrifices for all the gold in the world.

 

You can man up and make yourself happy by making yourself see your world in a different way. It's that simple. You can stick it out for your kids because that's the honorable thing to do. You rip their world apart because you "FEEL" unhappy and you'll teach your kids a very difficult lesson in life. You took your vows, you brought children in to the world, either do the honorable thing and raise them in the two parent home that is all they know, or split your famly up over another woman and tell yourself that it's good for your kids too, but don't expect most of us here to support or claim that what you are doing is honorable and proper, fair, or considerate. While you are involvd with another woman outside your marriage, your wife is trying to make it work, do the right thing and hoin her, you'll be a better, happier, and more well rounded and respected person for it, especially by yourself and your wife and children.

[2sure]

Spineman -

 

I am glad my previous post made you think of the practicalities and logistics of divorce. I made note of the med student/marriage stats - not to point out that med students are bad people (lol)...

 

but that MANY post graduate students do not put their lives on hold. They get married, some have kids. The classes, work, and travel often required for this type of degree BREAKS PEOPLE. This is the stuff. Many marriages do not survive it simply because of the stress, the logisitics.

This is the hardest time period of your LIFE. You and your wife probably knew this going in, but now that it is reality, and you have been doing it for a long time - and its getting harder, not down hill yet...you are both crazy ready to bail.

 

This is ...sadly, nearly normal. Just think...if you can wait this out, maybe not completely happily - but at least courteously and respectfully...if your family can make it through this intact.....YOU WILL REAP THE BENEFITS. You could have the kind of rock solid marriage that only comes from walking through the fire .

 

Its possible.

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Spineman, your thread inspired this post of mine:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t180050/

 

I was going to respond here, but it ended up getting way too long...

 

I realized when typing my responses to you how valuable marriage is and I was gently reminded of the commitment I made almost 15 years ago...

[Sands_of_time]

Spineman... what a predicament you are in, my friend.

 

Do you know WHO got you into this position in the first place? That's right....it was YOU! Do you know who is going to get you out of this position? You got it...it's YOU again. And you CAN do it. The first thing you'll need to do is pick a direction and go full force toward that goal. No looking back, no second guessing, no pussyfooting around. Pick a direction now...and go for it 100%.

 

The affair fog seems to be clouding your judgment and the feelings for your W don't seem nearly as strong based upon all those wonderful chemicals that our bodies create when we are in the beginning stages of lust/love...etc (and rightfully so--they are all too powerful). Those chemicals are like Kyrptonite to your marriage, however.

 

Here is one of my favorite threads that is very similar to your predicament (hopefully it works when you click it). The OP has gone to the "other side." Then he came back months/years later and updated his original thread with a follow-up.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=154695

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Here is one of my favorite threads that is very similar to your predicament (hopefully it works when you click it). The OP has gone to the "other side." Then he came back months/years later and updated his original thread with a follow-up.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=154695

 

What an excellent example of how perfectly logical and intellectual individuals become irrational when infatuated and in the head rush of that 'new found love...'

[Spineman696]

WOW....this is exactly what I was hoping I would find on here. It puts it in perspective to see someone else who had made the choice that is most desirable, and to see the results of this. Are the results the same with everyone who walks this path....IDK but the important thing is I don't care.

 

I spoke to my wife today about us both getting counseling personally (her only if she wants it) and doing it together as well. I am going to fight as hard as I can to keep my marriage and family. I need to learn better how to communicate with her and we have lots of issues that we need to work out. This will not be easy, but she loves me very much and I love her, regardless of the feelings I have for the OW. The situation with the OW is ended, spoke with her about it last night. I told her how I feel about her, but that nothing could ever happen b/c of my commitment to my wife and children. And that if for some reason it didn't work out between my wife and I in the future...there would be too much baggage between her and I to ever make a real go of it. I think the biggest part was making myself stop and be content with not having this become a part of my life. But I think that many of you all are right...I have built something with my wife that is far from perfect, far from a masterpiece. But nothing ever gets there without work...and it's time I put more of that work in.

 

School is busy and our lives are going to become much more hectic in the future, however I am going to be there for my wife more now than I have been. And I'll work that much harder when it comes time to.

 

Thank you all for the comments

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

Good job spineman.

 

You've taken the first step in what will be a long road (but truly worthwhile journey) to making your marriage the best it can be.

 

Keep posting here as things progress...

[stbx2007]

I don't know what it is about the OW that she gives me. We talk about stupid things most of the time, occasionally important things. But I can be myself around her and she doesn't get mad at me. I don't have to curb who I really am. My wife was fine with me when we met, but unfortunately I have changed a bit over the years. I guess that's to be expected. But she's not happy with who I've become. And I can't be the guy that I once was. I don't know how to.

 

Is there a need to tell my wife about who the other woman is? Or is it safe to just tell her that I am having doubts about us and feelings for someone else. And we need to work on this.

 

Also, i don't understand what PA means in your post?

 

 

Your wife is now familiar. You've heard the saying, "familiarity breeds contempt", well its true. Imagine that your wife tells you to give her a divorce and you marry the OW. It won't be long before this new one starts to get too familiar. You said you wouldn't mind having kids (more kids) with the OW. Once the routine of a new baby and marriage starts (and of course you'll be juggling visits to the other kids and child support) you won't be in LaLa land anymore. The OW should not be fooling around with you. Does she know you're a married father? Doesn't she deserve an unencumbered relationship? What would you feel if your wife presented you with her desire to be free to marry another man? Life is not the romantic comedy you're making it. Everyone changes once they get married. They go from being slightly known to familiar. You stop making each other feel important. It will happen with the new one too. Aren't you supposed to be studying also? Could stress be affecting you?

You have some work to do. Get some good counseling and figure out if you really should be considering another relationship while you're still married.