Yes my friends, they do come back sometimes...

[Surfer Girl]

I also did not realize she is still emotionally attached to her current relationship. With that understanding I can relate to your hesitation. If you were the one she truelly loved and wanted to be with... she would not be with him... How could she still love you and want you if she is in a relationship.... Actions do speak louder than words and her actions indicate she is not willing to give up her current relationship unless she knows you will take her back... and what is to say if you did take her back that she may go back to him..... IMHO... if she really felt she wanted you... she would not be with him.... Because her feelings for you if they were sincere would prohibit her from loving someone else.... she has not even detached to work on her and understand what it is she really wants... perhaps the age factor and her not being able to be alone

 

The best thing she could do is learn to be alone and realize thru detachment what her values and self worth is... It isn't about always being in a relationship.... It is about discovering who you are, what you need, want and realizing it.... perhaps that takes time, struggles, tribulations, sorrow, and wisdom thru the years

[RecordProducer]

"It's easy to give advice, but tough to take when your heart is screwing with your cognitive abilities..."

Actually, dear, it's not as tough as you think, and the heart is not as dumb as we all think of it. Your mind should always ask your heart "Do you like how it feels? No? OK, so I'll order the mouth to say "no" because you, the heart, are the most important." You know what I mean?

I can't help who I love/want in my life.

I know what you mean, of course. I am a very emotional and impulsive person, so I've fallen from the tree of love many times - and climbed back again and again - until I didn't have the strength anymore. The mind and the heart CAN work together. If they don't, then one of them is wrong. And I am not talking about the usual "I love this jerk, what can I do," I am talking about real, honest to goodness harmony of both, even when you're in love.

 

You can erase your love with strong cognitive abilities. I really, really, really believe that it took me more than two years to get over my second husband because I was ignorant and stupid (I was 25 when we split). First of all, I told myself that I lost the only man who was right for me, that I was now defective (divorced mother of two), and that he loved me but I had to change. In reality, he was never right for me, he's not the only man in the world, I wasn't defective, and he didn't love me (nor could I have changed).

 

Only when I acknowledged these things was I ready to get over him. What helped me acknowledge was basically memory. One day, I just remembered one scene from the past that made me completely realize that I wasn't happy in the marriage. I'd also ignored ex-h's faults in the name of love. Then I realized that I was happier without him - which led me to conclude that I didn't really want him back. So I came to a point where I still loved him and wanted to be with him, but didn't want to live with him. Finally, he told me one day "I don't love you anymore." This was the end of all my suffering.

 

My point is that it's the mind who messes up with your heart, not the other way round. If your mind understands 100%, with no doubt and no reserve, that a particular person is not good for you, that they can bring you more pain than pleasure, that they don't love you and there's no chance for you to ever be happy with them - trust me, dear, your heart will relinquish that love in no time.

 

Another thing that's important is to set high standards: exactly how happy do I want to be? If I want to be happy, then this person is not the right choice. So I will let them go. And the heart lets go, too.

 

Finally, the worst thing is hope. When you expect things (people, circumstances, conditions,feelings) to change, it brings you nothing but sorrow. Things may change or may not, but by holding onto nothing but hope is futile, in the least. We desperately hope that we are loved back when we clearly see that there is no indication of love in the picture. Let go of the hope and see what remains. Forget the future, look at the present and the past - and that's the reality.

 

I can, however, discipline myself to not let the people control my life.

It's not a matter of discipline. You have to feel this control in your heart. How do you even know that your heart is saying "yes" when your mind is saying "no"? Trust me, when my mind is saying "definitely NO," I don't even "hear from" my heart. It's precisely when my mind lures me into false perceived actions that convert into false hopes that my heart wakes up and starts spreading toxic love.

In my case, the control is out of my hands and has been for a long time. Other than a few pieces of breadcrumbs here and there, she's done nothing.

These breadcrumbs take control out of your hands. If you set your mind on high standards and self-love, your mind wouldn't even notice these breadcrumbs. There's a reason why we call them "crumbs" - because we believe in them. It's little hope, but still hope. If you were 100% aware that crumbs of love = indifference and lack of love, you would call them "lies" or "bullkrap." You wouldn't even waste your time posting "My ex called me with some nonsense." You wouldn't even listen to her; you would've told her to cut the crap and go bug someone else.

 

And this is what your intuition told you, and it's great that you're listening to it. Is the intuition a servant of the heart or the mind? is it a feeling or is it cognitive? I would say it's a combination of both. And this is why it's most important. Do you have a gut feeling that you can have a beautiful future with true love and many kids with this girl? I don't think so.

 

You know, my husband and I split recently. For a while, we couldn't stay away from each other and it felt like we'd get back together someday very soon. Admittedly, he wanted to give ME another chance (check that!), which means he wants another chance because he dumped me. Anyway, I slept in his house, in his bed with him many times. One night, while we were cuddling in bed, it just felt so right and I was so sure it was not over. So, I was caressing his back while he was asleep and he started going "mmmmm" in his sleep, as he always does when somebody touches him in his sleep. I remembered that I always wanted to record him "mmm"-ing because it's so funny. But I never did it. And at that sweet moment, a quick thought crossed my mind "Now I'll never have the chance to record him." And that thought completely surprised me, because it meant that deep inside I knew our marriage was over. In order for me to record him, my equipment would have to be in his house or he would have to sleep in my apartment.

 

So, my intuition sent me a signal that it'll never happen. Well, fast forward a few weeks, I am realizing that it's really over. Both my mind and heart are around 90% of understanding that. I say 90, not 100% because he seems totally crushed by our separation and in some covered ways, he's trying to win me back (but he wants ME to beg him to take me back). So, I still haven't seen him at a point where he realizes that I am moving on; I still haven't seen what he will do after that point. Notice the 10% hope? It's messy, because I have 100% understanding that he wants me, on the one hand, and 100% understanding that he is not the right guy for me, on the other hand. But my heart is on my mind's side, not on the ex's love's side. And you know, maybe I still think about him a lot, but what's most important is that I don't feel bad anymore. I feel good about the separation, I feel alive and I definitely don't miss him at all.

 

As I have stated many times, it is her ACTIONS now that I am following, not her words.

That's the correct road map, I agree. Same with my husband; if I see a continuous pattern of meaningful actions (not kisses, compliments, or gifts) for a long time (more than a year), I may, just may, believe that he has changed. Meanwhile, I am not holding my breath.

[alphamale]

Actually, dear, it's not as tough as you think, and the heart is not as dumb as we all think of it. Your mind should always ask your heart "Do you like how it feels? No? OK, so I'll order the mouth to say "no" because you, the heart, are the most important." You know what I mean?

actually in reality the heart hi-jacks the mind AND the mouth so your argument is moot

[RecordProducer]

I loved some of the things you said and they helped ME get a clearer understanding of my own situation:

It becomes a vice in your life.

Yes! This is what my marriage felt like for three years. Addiction, guilt, hysteria, helplessness, anger, shame... these are the traits of a vice. And a vice is to be eliminated or it will eat you alive before it kills you.

 

I can live without her.

This is also true. I can't live without some people and things, but I can definitely live without someone who is causing me pain, doesn't meet my needs, and isn't devoted to me.

 

I have too many positive things going on in my life to worry about the negatives.

This is also a great thought. And if we don't have too many positive things in life, it's time to invest energy in creating those, instead of fixing the unfixable. I never understood people who had great careers, lots of wonderful friends and loving relatives, how they could be so absorbed by their breakups. My first divorce caught me in a very bad position and there was not much I could do about it. But with my second separation, I am not that bad. I don't have any friends or family around, but I have my wonderful parents and friends available on the phone/net, I have my kids as my best friends, I have my music to work on, I have a nice apartment, I have just enough money to live very modestly, and I am starting law school this August. I am young, smart, and full of energy; I have no obstacles in life; I have many interests and many things bring me joy. So, I have everything and I am totally happy.

 

I even have an ex who, after he dumped me, is not really banging my door, but is saying "Come in!" - even though I didn't knock on his door.

 

And to me, talk is absolutely cheap.

This too I must not forget. Ever!

[mmk1]

CG, you have provided so much insight for me and I thank you for it. You are absolutely right that it is easier to give advice than to follow it (even your own good advice).

 

Here, a year has passed and while you say you are living your life, it seems to me that it has been focused on your ex and what she is doing. She has not taken the steps to reconcile with you (she is with someone else!) that you wisely counsel is necessary before investing any of your own emotions.

 

In short, your advice to everyone here is always right and insightful. You would tell you that, despite your postings, you have placed your life on hold for her. This is evidenced by the importance and interest you place on her life. I would suggest your own excellant advice to move on and lose your interest in this girl that does not deserve or return your love.

 

One year later is a year lost of your life focusing on someone who does not show the signs you have previously identified of coming back to you. Also, please keep posting as you help so many others with your experience and wisdom.

[CaliGuy]

I also did not realize she is still emotionally attached to her current relationship. With that understanding I can relate to your hesitation. If you were the one she truelly loved and wanted to be with... she would not be with him... How could she still love you and want you if she is in a relationship.... Actions do speak louder than words and her actions indicate she is not willing to give up her current relationship unless she knows you will take her back... and what is to say if you did take her back that she may go back to him..... IMHO... if she really felt she wanted you... she would not be with him.... Because her feelings for you if they were sincere would prohibit her from loving someone else.... she has not even detached to work on her and understand what it is she really wants... perhaps the age factor and her not being able to be alone

 

The best thing she could do is learn to be alone and realize thru detachment what her values and self worth is... It isn't about always being in a relationship.... It is about discovering who you are, what you need, want and realizing it.... perhaps that takes time, struggles, tribulations, sorrow, and wisdom thru the years

 

Agree 100%. I think she is aware that I would "probably" take her back if the circumstances were right. I have asked her a question which she did not answer: "What assurance do I have that you won't do this again?" Dead silence.

 

Actually, dear, it's not as tough as you think, and the heart is not as dumb as we all think of it. Your mind should always ask your heart "Do you like how it feels? No? OK, so I'll order the mouth to say "no" because you, the heart, are the most important." You know what I mean?

I know what you mean, of course. I am a very emotional and impulsive person, so I've fallen from the tree of love many times - and climbed back again and again - until I didn't have the strength anymore. The mind and the heart CAN work together. If they don't, then one of them is wrong. And I am not talking about the usual "I love this jerk, what can I do," I am talking about real, honest to goodness harmony of both, even when you're in love.

 

You can erase your love with strong cognitive abilities. I really, really, really believe that it took me more than two years to get over my second husband because I was ignorant and stupid (I was 25 when we split). First of all, I told myself that I lost the only man who was right for me, that I was now defective (divorced mother of two), and that he loved me but I had to change. In reality, he was never right for me, he's not the only man in the world, I wasn't defective, and he didn't love me (nor could I have changed).

 

........snipped

 

Excellent post, RP. I've nothing to add but a hearty THANK YOU!

 

CG, you have provided so much insight for me and I thank you for it. You are absolutely right that it is easier to give advice than to follow it (even your own good advice).

 

Here, a year has passed and while you say you are living your life, it seems to me that it has been focused on your ex and what she is doing. She has not taken the steps to reconcile with you (she is with someone else!) that you wisely counsel is necessary before investing any of your own emotions.

 

In short, your advice to everyone here is always right and insightful. You would tell you that, despite your postings, you have placed your life on hold for her. This is evidenced by the importance and interest you place on her life. I would suggest your own excellant advice to move on and lose your interest in this girl that does not deserve or return your love.

 

One year later is a year lost of your life focusing on someone who does not show the signs you have previously identified of coming back to you. Also, please keep posting as you help so many others with your experience and wisdom.

 

Agreed, but also understand my life hasn't stopped at all. I have been dating and I haven't put a lot of focus on her. Also remember that we work together so it's impossible to completely forget her. ESPECIALLY when she shows up out of the blue at my desk or starts IM'ing me at work (we have a work only IM program).

 

So at this point, it's impossible for me to forget about her. She's around 40 hours a week. The only way to do that would be to leave for another job and I LOVE what I do and where I work.

 

So, the only answer is to DEAL with it, continue to focus on my house-hunting and don't turn my nose at dates (which I've had a LOT of lately! Some fun, some not so fun!). There are other women out there and I am completely aware of that. I don't need to be with someone at all.

 

One other thing. When you TRULY love someone, it's extremely difficult to "UN-LOVE" them. Only time and a serious amount of investment in YOU will help that feeling dissipate.

[paperchase]

CaliGuy, I was thinking about your situation and how you and your ex work together. That's got to be tough. More importantly, however, I would think that has to have huge implications for the use of NC. Afterall, NC means just that and you and your ex inevitably come in contact on a daily basis. On one hand, you can't be healing as quickly as you might otherwise heal; and, on the other hand, your ex can't be experiencing the true feelings that NC brings. She doens't have a chance to miss you or reflect. She doens't have to wonder if you're still there for her because you are literally right there. All the coy nonchalant behavior in the world is no substitute for complete NC. I'm not sure there's anyway around it though. I might just crack and say look you d_ck tease please don't speak to me or look my way again. Don't talk to me about your man. It's bad enough we work together but I'm not interested in being cordial with someone who is a daily reminder of my broken heart. Sounds like you're squarely in the friend zone and that she has her cake and eats it too.

[CaliGuy]

CaliGuy, I was thinking about your situation and how you and your ex work together. That's got to be tough.

 

Yes, it's extremely tough. She gets here very early so I always see her car right out front in the same space every day. I'm almost ecstatic on the days when it's not there

 

More importantly, however, I would think that has to have huge implications for the use of NC.

 

While it's tough to go 100% NC, for most of the time we've been broken up I've just disciplined myself to ignore her. In fact, when I was ignoring her she reached out often to talk to me.

 

However, her motives for talking to me stem not from the desire to BE with me, they stem from her current relationship problems. In other words, she sees me as an option, not as the object of her desire.

 

Afterall, NC means just that and you and your ex inevitably come in contact on a daily basis. On one hand, you can't be healing as quickly as you might otherwise heal; and, on the other hand, your ex can't be experiencing the true feelings that NC brings.

 

That's both an astute and correct statement. NC is impossible and as long as we work together, she never feels the full impact of NC. On the other hand, when I am NC with her, she gets a daily reminder that I am not talking to her.

 

She doesn't have a chance to miss you or reflect. She doesn't have to wonder if you're still there for her because you are literally right there.

 

You can miss someone and be sitting right next to them. The ex that brought me here, that was the case as we lived together. We'd literally be sitting next to each other on the couch and I be lonely.

 

It's sort of the same case here. She isn't lonely by any means (lots of work friends and of course her boyfriend) unless she starts to miss what I added in her life. When that happens then she'll come sniffing around.

 

All the coy nonchalant behavior in the world is no substitute for complete NC. I'm not sure there's anyway around it though. I might just crack and say look you d_ck tease please don't speak to me or look my way again. Don't talk to me about your man. It's bad enough we work together but I'm not interested in being cordial with someone who is a daily reminder of my broken heart. Sounds like you're squarely in the friend zone and that she has her cake and eats it too.

 

She knows that my seeing her is a reminder of my broken heart. We talked about that because she wanted to know why I wouldn't talk to her. So I flat out broke down and told her "Who in their right mind wants to be reminded of their broken heart???" Then she understood. Since I told her that she's pretty much stayed away.

 

And while she wants to be friends, I have made it clear that it's not an option for her and that I do not remain friends with exs. Anyone that can walk away from me like she did (and the ex before her) doesn't deserve my friendship and the benefits being friend provides.

 

Period.

[BCCA]

"What assurance do I have that you won't do this again?" Dead silence.

 

I have to tell you CG, reading that brought back memories. At least you were smart enough to ask it beforehand, and hold your ground. I asked my ex the same thing, when we broke up the first time, and got the same response.

 

The answer is none. You have NO assurances she wont do that again, and truth be told, we both know she probably would.

 

As for giving advice, but having a hard time taking it yourself, we all suffer from that problem. Heck, I can give good advice all day long, but as soon as I think about my own situations, I have the hardest time listening to myself. Maybe its part of always thinking that youre relationship is so different than anyone else, or foolishly believing that love conquers all.

 

You can miss someone and be sitting right next to them.

 

I can relate to this 100%. The person you sit next to is no longer the same person you were with. Its like, theyve been consumed by this other person that you just dont even know. That is without a doubt the loneliest place in the world.

 

And while she wants to be friends, I have made it clear that it's not an option for her

 

Isnt it funny that people will tell you how much they care, and how the want to be your friend, but when you tell them 'hey you kinda took a crap on my feelings, and I dont see what being your friend would do for ME', they get all mad and defensive? Or act like its YOU thats given them to boot from your life? Pathetic really. And then you ask them if theyre friends with any guys that dumped THEM, and of course they arent - but thats 'different'

[CaliGuy]

I have to tell you CG, reading that brought back memories. At least you were smart enough to ask it beforehand, and hold your ground. I asked my ex the same thing, when we broke up the first time, and got the same response.

 

Yep, because I have been through this before with the previous ex, this was a question that had to be asked. Her silence spoke folimes.

 

The answer is none. You have NO assurances she wont do that again, and truth be told, we both know she probably would.

 

Exactly.

 

As for giving advice, but having a hard time taking it yourself, we all suffer from that problem. Heck, I can give good advice all day long, but as soon as I think about my own situations, I have the hardest time listening to myself. Maybe its part of always thinking that youre relationship is so different than anyone else, or foolishly believing that love conquers all.

 

I just think that when it comes to our personal experiences, our heart clouds our head's judgement so we make very bad decisions. If we let others make them for us, we'd probably do just fine

 

I can relate to this 100%. The person you sit next to is no longer the same person you were with. Its like, theyve been consumed by this other person that you just dont even know. That is without a doubt the loneliest place in the world.

 

Yep. NEVER have was I more lonely than when I was sitting next to her. Knowing that I loved her with every fibre of my being and yet she couldn't give $0.02 about me.

 

Isnt it funny that people will tell you how much they care, and how the want to be your friend, but when you tell them 'hey you kinda took a crap on my feelings, and I dont see what being your friend would do for ME', they get all mad and defensive? Or act like its YOU thats given them to boot from your life? Pathetic really. And then you ask them if theyre friends with any guys that dumped THEM, and of course they arent - but thats 'different'

 

Of course! It's called being selfish

[paperchase]

Hey CaliGuy,

 

I've been thinking about your nonchalant approach. You practice it in your situation and you have advised it for mine. But NC is not about being nonchalant. It's a conscious decision and while the person we excommunicate has no idea what we are thinking, for the most part they assume we don't care much for them at the moment. As mentioned elsewhere in this forum this can cause feelings of guilt and our ex's might try to communicate with us to assuage these feelings.

 

In your case you work with your ex and being nonchalant might send the wrong message. Even if you don't talk to her and don't stroke her ego, by being nonchalant you are saying that you're ok with her and what she did. Maybe this is your intention, maybe you've already made her feel guilty enough for hurting you, but I might behave a little differently. You don't have to scowl at her all day on anything, but I would not smile. I might keep a little look of disgust on my face when we meet eye to eye. I might have a little impatience in my voice when she addresses me like "sigh, what [now]." I'd just give the overall impression that I don't really like her and her act has worn thin.

 

Even by acting nonchalant you have admitted that she knows you'd take her back under the right cirumstances. As such, you have revealed your cards and she's in the driver's seat. She has a decision to make and no time table to make it. By acting the way I suggest you might create the feeling that the deal is being taken or has been taken off the table. You don't say this explicity because, as you preach, actions speak louder than words. I'm in a similar situation. I basically let my ex know that I'd consider reconciliation after she said every manipulative thing imaginable to get me to lower my guard. And since then, she's been hedging. I've been nonchalant as you recommended but she's got her ego boost and no degree of nonchalance can take it away. I'm really not cool with the situation and I'm starting to think maybe I should't act like I am. The same applies to you. Thoughts?

[CaliGuy]

Hey CaliGuy,

 

I've been thinking about your nonchalant approach. You practice it in your situation and you have advised it for mine. But NC is not about being nonchalant. It's a conscious decision and while the person we excommunicate has no idea what we are thinking, for the most part they assume we don't care much for them at the moment. As mentioned elsewhere in this forum this can cause feelings of guilt and our ex's might try to communicate with us to assuage these feelings.

 

I'm not like most people when it comes to NC. I realize the point of NC isn't to make them jealous or miss you. It's to take the power away from your ex and give it back to yourself. The more you are a slave to their attention the more power you hand to your ex.

 

For me, it's about asserting myself and regaining confidence and self-esteem and has little to do with my ex.

 

In your case you work with your ex and being nonchalant might send the wrong message. Even if you don't talk to her and don't stroke her ego, by being nonchalant you are saying that you're ok with her and what she did. Maybe this is your intention, maybe you've already made her feel guilty enough for hurting you, but I might behave a little differently. You don't have to scowl at her all day on anything, but I would not smile. I might keep a little look of disgust on my face when we meet eye to eye. I might have a little impatience in my voice when she addresses me like "sigh, what [now]." I'd just give the overall impression that I don't really like her and her act has worn thin.

 

I don't think that is always the right approach because if you don't at least smile (you don't have to start a conversation) then you are essentially saying "I'm still hurt by you and I'm bitter!" That's also not the message you want to give off. What you want to do is show her that you can and will live fine without her.

 

My ex knows that I have shut her out of my personal life and that the benefits of being with me are no longer there since she walked away. That is what she misses deeply -- but not enough to leave the current guy and come to me.

 

I did the silent approach to her for 6 months and all it really did was make us both uncomfortable. It's much better now for her to see me smiling (not because of her but because I am happy!). I'd rather her know I am happy without her than miserable and bitter.

 

Even by acting nonchalant you have admitted that she knows you'd take her back under the right cirumstances.

 

While this is true, she also knows that I will not put up with the same crap. I'm not sure the work required to repair the relationship is worth my efforts or hers, for that matter.

 

As such, you have revealed your cards and she's in the driver's seat. She has a decision to make and no time table to make it.

 

On the contrary, I've made it very clear that I am not sitting around waiting for her and that I am dating. She's well aware of the risks. I just don't think she cares. She knows there's a darn good chance I'll meet and fall in love with someone else. She's not going to care if she isn't in love with me and wants to be with me. Only if she really wanted me would any of this matter.

 

By acting the way I suggest you might create the feeling that the deal is being taken or has been taken off the table. You don't say this explicity because, as you preach, actions speak louder than words.

 

Again, there's no real deal out there for her. She's perfectly happy wasting her life away with a guy who is never going to change. And it's not enough apparently that she would want to be with me. So I'm not wasting any time waiting for. Like I said, she knows the risks and just doesn't care.

 

I'm in a similar situation. I basically let my ex know that I'd consider reconciliation after she said every manipulative thing imaginable to get me to lower my guard. And since then, she's been hedging. I've been nonchalant as you recommended but she's got her ego boost and no degree of nonchalance can take it away. I'm really not cool with the situation and I'm starting to think maybe I should't act like I am. The same applies to you. Thoughts?

 

The difference is you don't work with your ex and see her every day. Your ex doesn't see you happy and carefree. Your ex is having sex with you, mine is not having sex with me. You're in a push/pull relationship with your ex. I'm not really even a blip on her radar.

 

Oh, occasionally she'll drop a carrot but she really has no intention of leaving him for me (and I am well aware of this). I just don't think that I need to be bitter about the situation. The happier (and confident) I am the better off I'll be. Not for her, but for the RIGHT woman when she comes around.

 

I know what you're saying but our situations are really very different. As long as you are giving your ex what she wants (emotionally and physically) she has no real reason to drop the other guy for you.

 

In my situation, my ex is getting most everything she wants from her current BF. The other aspect I offer her, well she isn't getting it from me and since I told her as much, she hasn't bothered me about it. I'm not meeting any of her physical or emotional needs.

[paperchase]

Points well taken. NC should be about you and in your case it is. I guess I just get tired of the BS sometimes and I want to take a stand. NC is taking a stand but sometimes it doesn't seem like a strong enough one. I'm big on holding people accountable. I can act perfectly happy in life and still let someone I'm not fond of know it when necessary. They don't make me unhappy, they just don't get to share in my happiness. I feel like by making nice with my ex I may have sent the wrong message. All the pain she caused me is now trivialized.

 

I also appreciate that our situations are different. At the end of the day, however, neither of our ex's are compelled to reunite with us. Yes, mine seems to be willing to step outside her relationship for sex and other emotional needs not being met, especially when I completely ignore her, yet it's fairly obviously ego driven because once she gets my attention her jets cool pretty fast. She goes back to being aloof and playing games.

 

I have no doubt that her current man cannot and does not make her feel as good as she does with me. I'm not an egomaniac but I've shown her so much and I have such experience that no man in her age group could possibly compare. That's what makes it so mind boggling that she hasn't asked to be back with me for good. She acknowledges all of this -- how great I am and how nobody compares, how she'll never get over me, yada, yada -- yet she remains with another man. I just keep coming back to the fact that she must be hung up on my kids or age because nothing else makes sense. Then again, she's a liar so who knows.

 

Anyway, based on everything you said I think you are making the most out of your situation. I really hope and believe you'll find the woman of your dreams who makes your ex an afterthought. I'm very empathetic to your struggle because I can't imagine how tough it would be if I had to see my ex everyday and learn first hand about her new relationship. I'm not even the jealous type but I know I'd stuggle. I don't even think about the other man in my case because for some reason I just don't think it's really about him at all. She may have left me and got with him, but he's not the reason we're still not together.

[CaliGuy]

Points well taken. NC should be about you and in your case it is. I guess I just get tired of the BS sometimes and I want to take a stand. NC is taking a stand but sometimes it doesn't seem like a strong enough one. I'm big on holding people accountable. I can act perfectly happy in life and still let someone I'm not fond of know it when necessary. They don't make me unhappy, they just don't get to share in my happiness. I feel like by making nice with my ex I may have sent the wrong message. All the pain she caused me is now trivialized.

 

I'm not being "nice" to her in the sense she is included in my personal life. I've completely shut her out of any of my personal life. Things she's very interested in. You're only trivializing things with her when you SLEEP with her and act like you're still dating.

 

See, that is the big difference between our situations. Your ex still has an "in" into your life. You're hanging out with her, going out with her, sharing good times with her and yes, even sharing a bed with her.

 

My ex is getting NONE of that with me. The only way she would get that is to cut the other guy loose (which she hasn't done) and commit to me. So far she hasn't done that and I don't see her doing it anytime soon (or at all, really).

 

I also appreciate that our situations are different. At the end of the day, however, neither of our ex's are compelled to reunite with us. Yes, mine seems to be willing to step outside her relationship for sex and other emotional needs not being met, especially when I completely ignore her, yet it's fairly obviously ego driven because once she gets my attention her jets cool pretty fast. She goes back to being aloof and playing games.

 

That's because you are meeting your ex's needs and her current guy is meeting some need. So she goes to you BOTH to get those needs filled.

 

My ex is getting all of her needs but one met but her current guy. It's not enough for her to leave him and I have already stated to her that it's no MY job to provide her those needs. That she has to figure out a way to meet those needs with her current guy or dump him and get ALL of her needs met by me. Like I said, ain't gonna happen. She's too far emotionally gone.

 

I have no doubt that her current man cannot and does not make her feel as good as she does with me. I'm not an egomaniac but I've shown her so much and I have such experience that no man in her age group could possibly compare. That's what makes it so mind boggling that she hasn't asked to be back with me for good. She acknowledges all of this -- how great I am and how nobody compares, how she'll never get over me, yada, yada -- yet she remains with another man. I just keep coming back to the fact that she must be hung up on my kids or age because nothing else makes sense. Then again, she's a liar so who knows.

 

A) There is another man involved.

B) You have kids (which bothers her).

C) You have an ex-wife (which bothers her).

 

These three factors are what is stopping her. These are factors outside of your control. She either accepts you as you are or she doesn't. So far, she's still very hesitant.

 

I think the best thing you could have done is deny her sex and deny her a lot of your personal time. When you sleep with her, when you act like you're still dating, she doesn't have anything to miss. She gets all the benefits of being with you without giving you any commitment whatsoever.

 

Like I said. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. Stop giving her free milk and perhaps her tune will change.

 

Anyway, based on everything you said I think you are making the most out of your situation. I really hope and believe you'll find the woman of your dreams who makes your ex an afterthought. I'm very empathetic to your struggle because I can't imagine how tough it would be if I had to see my ex everyday and learn first hand about her new relationship. I'm not even the jealous type but I know I'd stuggle. I don't even think about the other man in my case because for some reason I just don't think it's really about him at all. She may have left me and got with him, but he's not the reason we're still not together.

 

In my case, she said she wasn't ready when we started dating. Then she met him and now all the sudden she was ready to date again. I don't know if she is lying or it was just bad timing on my part. I do know there's a huge gap in her life that he will never fulfill. But at her age (23) I think she is content to ride the wave out as long as she can. I think one day she'll wake up at 32 years old and realize she wasted the best years of her life with this guy. Obviously by then it will be too late but many, many people here on LS can attest that this sort of thing happens far too often.

 

As for me, I have no doubt that there is someone better out there. I think the less time I spend thinking about it the better. I'm content with finding a house and living life as happily as I can. Whatever happens, happens. I've already told my ex that I am not pursuing anything. That it's in God's hands and if that is what He wants, it will happen. If it isn't, someone else will come along and win my heart. Either way, she knows the risks she is taking and it doesn't appear to bother her that I could be off the market any day now.

 

That, in and of itself, tells me all I need to know about her and where I stand. Like I said, not even on the radar....