Valentine's Day Didn't Just Bring a Bracelet

[Touche]

The dictionary defines it. How it is enacted is decided by the people involved.

 

We're going around in circles. That's what I said. The dictionary defines it as a "promise of marriage" Or a pledge. The rest is up to the people involved. Exactly. That's exactly the point I was making.

 

Commitment and promise are not the same thing. A promise can be considered a bit of a commitment in that is is a verbal statement, but a commitment takes that promise and takes action with it.

 

So when one becomes engaged, he or she says publicly that "we promise to get married" or to each other "I promise to marry you" but they take it a step farther as TBF has done and with an action of accepting and wearing a ring, they say to themselves and anyone else looking at them that "we have committed to spending our lives together."

 

This a wonderful step and a time of preparation for the marriage to follow. It is much more than a promise to be kept or broken.

 

I think you misunderstood my point. Of course it's more than that. I just meant that it's a promise to marry. They're not getting married tomorrow. I mean what big huge mistake is TBF making in promising to marry him one day in the near future? I guess I didn't really articulate what I meant to say very well.

 

 

 

I can't speak for TBF on what else should matter.

 

Ok, I guess I misunderstood the tone of your statement then.

[curiousnycgirl]

OMGOMGOMGOMG how could I miss this?! TBF I am so excited for you! But I missed the ring pics! UGH work has been too insane for words -how could I have missed this?!

 

It is so romatic and wonderful - you so deserve it.

 

I'll hopefully get to read more of the thread later, but YIPPEE! I'm so thrilled for you!:bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:

[Trialbyfire]

OMGOMGOMGOMG how could I miss this?! TBF I am so excited for you! But I missed the ring pics! UGH work has been too insane for words -how could I have missed this?!

 

It is so romatic and wonderful - you so deserve it.

 

I'll hopefully get to read more of the thread later, but YIPPEE! I'm so thrilled for you!:bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:

Thanks nyc! I've just put the ring pic back into my avatar.

[sunshinegirl]

So here's a question, TBF: do you think your experience with the snowman will change the perspective and advice you offer to others in any way?

[Trialbyfire]

It is a nice ring.

 

I showed mine off too when I got engaged to WB....

A shocking practice sb! Women never do this in real life!

 

They never tell people about their engagement, at work, their friends, their family and show them the ring. Nope, nope, never. 'Tis a dysfunctional practice, indeed!

[Trialbyfire]

So here's a question, TBF: do you think your experience with the snowman will change the perspective and advice you offer to others in any way?

Yes and no. I don't recall ever giving advice to someone not to get engaged or married, if it felt right. I also don't recall crapping on anyone who's happy about getting engaged or having a baby or getting married, do you?

[Touche]

The way it was in real life for me when I was engaged and working in an office, was that the women there demanding to see the ring the second the words "we're engaged" came out of my mouth. They were literally grabbing my hand, one after the other! It wasn't even a matter of my "showing it off."

 

I guess my point is that had you not included the pic of the ring for us to see, you KNOW most of us would be demanding a pic of it! I guess then, it wouldn't have been a thread about "showing off the ring.":rolleyes:

[Trialbyfire]

The way it was in real life for me when I was engaged and working in an office, was that the women there demanding to see the ring the second the words "we're engaged" came out of my mouth. They were literally grabbing my hand, one after the other! It wasn't even a matter of my "showing it off."

 

I guess my point is that had you not included the pic of the ring for us to see, you KNOW most of us would be demanding a pic of it! I guess then, it wouldn't have been a thread about "showing off the ring.":rolleyes:

In real life, I've had my hand grabbed numerous times already, even before I've opened my mouth to make the announcement! It just happened at my meeting, not that I was planning to announce the engagement at this particular meeting. One woman was bold enough to ask to try it on.

[Citizen Erased]

In real life, I've had my hand grabbed numerous times already, even before I've opened my mouth to make the announcement! It just happened at my meeting, not that I was planning to announce the engagement at this particular meeting. One woman was bold enough to ask to try it on.

 

Um do you at least know this woman beyond the occasional nod in the elevator?

[Trialbyfire]

Um do you at least know this woman beyond the occasional nod in the elevator?

I've met her three times at different meetings. It's one thing if it's a friend or even someone I work with daily. She's not, barely an acquaintance. If I saw her on the street unexpectedly, I'm not even certain I would know who she was.

 

Some of the people at today's meeting, I've known for years, since this is one of my best clients.

[Touche]

In real life, I've had my hand grabbed numerous times already, even before I've opened my mouth to make the announcement! It just happened at my meeting, not that I was planning to announce the engagement at this particular meeting. One woman was bold enough to ask to try it on.

 

See? That's what I mean. I'm sure it's happened that way for most of us. It's a universal "girl thing."

 

All you did by posting the pic ahead of time, was skip the step where we had to "virtually" grab your hand!

 

I must say that I'm very, very surprised at some of the posts here.

 

Oh, and P.S. that IS weird about the woman asking to try the ring on I must say. Some people are so strange.

[Citizen Erased]

See? That's what I mean. I'm sure it's happened that way for most of us. It's a universal "girl thing."

 

All you did by posting the pic ahead of time, was skip the step where we had to "virtually" grab your hand!

I must say that I'm very, very surprised at some of the posts here.

 

Oh, and P.S. that IS weird about the woman asking to try the ring on I must say. Some people are so strange.

 

And I am unfortunately very, very not surprised. I am really starting to see why so many regulars either leave or take extended time away from LS. The sheer negativity of this place...

 

That is really weird though TBF, I don't get how people are so rude. She's one ballsy lady I'll give her that.

[Touche]

And I am unfortunately very, very not surprised. I am really starting to see why so many regulars either leave or take extended time away from LS. The sheer negativity of this place...

 

That is really weird though TBF, I don't get how people are so rude. She's one ballsy lady I'll give her that.

 

I was thinking the same thing, CE.

 

I mean one post, by someone I've come to really like on here even, calls those who have decided to let bygones be bygones, hypocrites!

 

So now, it's not ok to forgive and be forgiven? That's a bad thing now? If that's the case that's a sad thing.

 

I can't imagine going through life thinking that way. Almost no one who would think that way would ever have relationships of any kind!

 

I guess I shouldn't be surprised either, CE. But for some reason I am.

 

I guess in some ways I'm pretty naive. I thought that when the chips were really down, we'd have our backs on here. ("We" meaning the regulars.) It's sad to think that that isn't really the case.

 

Ugh...I could go on and on about this. But I won't. And I know I've been no angel either but still, if we can't even be happy for one another when good things happen (never mind the bad), what kind of "support" forum is this? Not all that supportive, I'd say.

[curiousnycgirl]

TBF thank you for reposting the pic, the ring is gorgeous (and btw you have really nice hands) - I am just out of my skin excited for you - I've sort of been following the story (always seem to be a day late and a dollar short - but I try!) - and it just gives one hope.

 

Forget the nay sayers here - and just be happy and be YOU. I'm looking forward to reading all the family reactions and then the wedding plans - all of it!

[whichwayisup]

I must say that I'm very, very surprised at some of the posts here.

 

My train of thought is, if a post is going to be bitchy and mean to someone who is posting good news, just don't bother posting! What's the point except to make waves and start arguements.

 

I don't know where the reply went but someone said something along the lines of "if you post about your life be ready to be judged by others" and what gets me is, those who DO post (especially in the OW/OM forum) are very big on expecting everyone to respect them and not judge them, so why judge someone who announced their engagement that's good news and positive? Makes no sense to me.

[burning 4 revenge]

Honey, I'm sure you're a perfectly nice person with good intentions, so I'll try hard to remain patient.

 

When you don't know a woman (as youve pointed out you could care less if TBF were alive or dead) it sounds really gay when a guy calls her honey

 

Just sayin..

[Touche]

 

When you don't know a woman (as youve pointed out you could care less if TBF were alive or dead) it sounds really gay when a guy calls her honey

 

Just sayin..

 

And you should know!

 

Good post Which.

[Citizen Erased]

 

When you don't know a woman (as youve pointed out you could care less if TBF were alive or dead) it sounds really gay when a guy calls her honey

 

Just sayin..

 

Indeed my lovely, splendid thoughts.

[Star Gazer]

Okay, I hope you know TBF that I am NOT a nay sayer here as I am soooo happy and excited for you, but there have been so many good points brought up here that I can't help but wonder...

 

An engagement is a promise to marry. That's what it is.

 

Again, an engagement is a PROMISE. Promises can be kept and promises can be broken...happens all the time.

 

An engagement is a promise and a promise can be kept...or broken. I think it is more than that, or usually it is defined as more than that. Getting engaged is a formal commitment of two people to merge their lives together. It is after the period of "let's see if we want to get married."

 

Exactly right. An engagement is a promise to marry. It's so serious, there really isn't a return policy, a 3-day (or in this case, 1.5 year) right of cancellation, or "cooling off period." But that's what it's seeming like right now. If your guy is so certain that you're "the one" (which it seems he is given that gorgeous ring! ), is it fair to put conditions on your decision to marry him? To see if it "works out" from this point forward?

 

You made a promise to your snowman - to marry him. Not to see if it works out. You made a 'promise' to marry him knowing there is a chance that you will break that promise after you spend the next 1.5 years getting to know him. How is your promise really a promise at all, if you know you can break it (and will break it, if things don't "work out")? I mean, under these circumstances, isn't saying, "I will," tantamount to saying, "We'll see"??

 

"We'll see" is... dating. It doesn't seem like "we'll see" is what you communicated to him (you PROMISED yourself to him), but it's certainly what you're admitting to us... and more importantly, to yourself.

 

So... with that said, are you really 'engaged' in common parlance? I realize you have a gorgeous ring and a man who absolutely adores you, but... Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

I know it's absolute CRAZY TALK, but honestly, if my skiman (shirt guy) proposed tonight, I'd say yes without hesitation... And that would mean that I'd be willing to drive to Tahoe to seal the deal tonight. No "wait and see period." The only reason why I wouldn't would be if we decided as a couple to have a nice wedding, which would require planning. Otherwise, an "I will" should be an "I do."

 

Don't you think?

 

If he's as awesome as you (and your supporters, like myself) believe him to be, wouldn't, "I love you, I adore you, I see my future with you, but I'm not ready to get married right now" be a better response? Doesn't the man you love deserve to know what's really going on in your heart of hearts?

 

Also, you said you're contemplating eloping with a huge party afterwards. If eloping is what you're down for... after promising to marry him, why aren't you ready to do it NOW?

 

I understand that a long engagement is your rational mind's way of trying to temper your heart's desire... And that explains a LOT. But if you're willing to let your heart lead here, why not just let it?

[allina]

TBF I hope you're feeling no less thrilled and in love today than you did the moment he proposed, and that the negative words here haven't caused you any pain or doubt. Thankfully this isn't about proving the legitimacy of your happiness and dedication, it's about celebrating your happiness. And while I can only speak for myself I think others would agree, though we don't really "know" each other here on LS, knowing about the struggle and journey of a fellow LSer makes a happy ending like yours extra sweet

[Touche]

SG, you do make some good points.

 

Maybe I'm not really understanding exactly where TBF is coming from then. But I took her acceptance to mean that if he's exactly who she thinks he is a year from now, then she will keep that promise to marry him.

 

If on the other hand, TBF said yes, for fear of losing him, well that's not a good reason. A man who is really right for you, won't leave just because you didn't accept a proposal after a few weeks.

 

I just got the impression that she said yes because she genuinely feels it's right. And waiting until next year will further solidify the decision for her. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

One thing you're wrong about SG, is that there's no "right of cancellation." Of course there is. No return policy? Not true.

 

Isn't that even recognized under the law vis-a-vis the ring? Legally, you're obligated to return the ring if you don't honor the pledge made when the ring was given and accepted. So yeah, there's a right of cancellation.

 

Of course ideally you should be 100% SURE you want to spend your life with a man before you accept his proposal. Otherwise you should tell him that you're not ready.

 

I do agree there.

[Star Gazer]

TBF I hope you're feeling no less thrilled and in love today than you did the moment he proposed, and that the negative words here haven't caused you any pain or doubt. Thankfully this isn't about proving the legitimacy of your happiness and dedication, it's about celebrating your happiness. And while I can only speak for myself I think others would agree, though we don't really "know" each other here on LS, knowing about the struggle and journey of a fellow LSer makes a happy ending like yours extra sweet

 

I certainly hope that none of my questions have in any way detracted from TBF's happiness. I'd absolutely LOVE to see a happy ending like this make it for the long, long haul. I mean, really - could it get any sweeter? I think not!!

 

Maybe I'm not really understanding exactly where TBF is coming from then. But I took her acceptance to mean that if he's exactly who she thinks he is a year from now, then she will keep that promise to marry him.

 

That's how I understood it too. But again, isn't that a "wait and see" approach? "I'm going to marry you if, and only if, you prove me right about your character." I'd hope that in accepting his proposal, she'd already be certain of it. I hope.

 

If on the other hand, TBF said yes, for fear of losing him, well that's not a good reason. A man who is really right for you, won't leave just because you didn't accept a proposal after a few weeks.

 

I agree. My concern is that part of the reason she did say yes (coupled with a long engagement) was to avoid losing him given her previous experiences with men who proposed. Thing is, and I don't know for sure, but I don't think TBF would have said yes to those other men no matter how long they had been dating, so a refusal of their proposal (and the resulting destruction of their relationship) wasn't the end of the world.

 

The "right guy" (who we're hoping snowman is!), on the other hand, would understand a desire to wait, if even just to wait to get engaged to begin with.

 

One thing you're wrong about SG, is that there's no "right of cancellation." Of course there is. No return policy? Not true.

 

I guess I have a different view about engagement and marriage. In my eyes, saying "Yes!" at the sign of a ring is synonymous to saying "I do" before all your family and friends. It's a commitment. One I don't take lightly, and one I wouldn't make without being as certain as certain gets.

 

Perhaps (and I'm not saying this sarcastically!!!) those who've been divorced (like you and TBF) realize that it can, and does happen (broken promises). But does that mean it's okay?

 

TBF's ex-husband promised fidelity to her. Your ex-husband promised not to be a controlling arse. Both broke those promises. Are you okay with that?

 

Legally, you're obligated to return the ring if you don't honor the pledge made when the ring was given and accepted. So yeah, there's a right of cancellation.

 

Not true in MOST states.

 

Of course ideally you should be 100% SURE you want to spend your life with a man before you accept his proposal. Otherwise you should tell him that you're not ready.

 

I do agree there.

 

So why did she accept then?

 

I just worry about some sort of ... damage (for lack of a better word) being done to this otherwise PERFECT relationship as a result of her acceptance of something she wasn't ready for.

 

I suspect he really would have understood if she had said, "We're getting close, but not yet."

[Trialbyfire]

I'm not afraid to lose him. I WILL regret not following my heart and my instincts.

 

Make what you will with that response.

[allina]

I certainly hope that none of my questions have in any way detracted from TBF's happiness. I'd absolutely LOVE to see a happy ending like this make it for the long, long haul. I mean, really - could it get any sweeter? I think not!!

 

 

 

That's how I understood it too. But again, isn't that a "wait and see" approach? "I'm going to marry you if, and only if, you prove me right about your character." I'd hope that in accepting his proposal, she'd already be certain of it. I hope.

 

 

 

I agree. My concern is that part of the reason she did say yes (coupled with a long engagement) was to avoid losing him given her previous experiences with men who proposed. Thing is, and I don't know for sure, but I don't think TBF would have said yes to those other men no matter how long they had been dating, so a refusal of their proposal (and the resulting destruction of their relationship) wasn't the end of the world.

 

The "right guy" (who we're hoping snowman is!), on the other hand, would understand a desire to wait, if even just to wait to get engaged to begin with.

 

 

 

I guess I have a different view about engagement and marriage. In my eyes, saying "Yes!" at the sign of a ring is synonymous to saying "I do" before all your family and friends. It's a commitment. One I don't take lightly, and one I wouldn't make without being as certain as certain gets.

 

Perhaps (and I'm not saying this sarcastically!!!) those who've been divorced (like you and TBF) realize that it can, and does happen (broken promises). But does that mean it's okay?

 

TBF's ex-husband promised fidelity to her. Your ex-husband promised not to be a controlling arse. Both broke those promises. Are you okay with that?

 

 

 

Not true in MOST states.

 

 

 

So why did she accept then?

 

I just worry about some sort of ... damage (for lack of a better word) being done to this otherwise PERFECT relationship as a result of her acceptance of something she wasn't ready for.

 

I suspect he really would have understood if she had said, "We're getting close, but not yet."

 

I think you've been nothing but supportive SG, I certainly wasn't referring to you in my statement.

 

I'm just slightly irked at people basically demanding that TBF explains herself to them, like she has to prove something before she's allowed to celebrate.

 

Also, I don't think that a certain amount of caution, realism and rational thinking diminishes the love and commitment people have for each other. I do not think that not running out to marry tonight means a couple is any less committed or serious.

 

TBF's relationship didn't take the average/typical course that most relationships take. Countering the quick commitment with a long engagement is a rational step in my opinion. I do not think her commitment should be challenged like this. I do not think that the decision not to elope today diminishes the love and commitment.

 

What's wrong with knowing in your heart that you will spend the rest of your life with someone but wanting to know them in even more depth to give your mind time to get on board?

 

People are basically saying "Unless you marry him right this moment you don't love him and your engagement is meaningless."

[sb129]

I must admit, the snowman has balls.

 

TO propose like that, in public, after such a short time- he must have been pretty sure she would say yes.