Valentine's Day Didn't Just Bring a Bracelet

[Touche]

I certainly hope that none of my questions have in any way detracted from TBF's happiness. I'd absolutely LOVE to see a happy ending like this make it for the long, long haul. I mean, really - could it get any sweeter? I think not!!

 

 

 

That's how I understood it too. But again, isn't that a "wait and see" approach? "I'm going to marry you if, and only if, you prove me right about your character." I'd hope that in accepting his proposal, she'd already be certain of it. I hope.

 

I see what you're saying but I guess I can kind of see it a little beyond that. I'm quoting myself here from earlier:

 

I agree to marry you. I'm 100% sure that I want to spend my life with you. I'm 100% sure that I love you. I want to be 110% sure though. And if we're still as compatible in a few months, and I have zero reason to believe that we won't be, and after having lived together for a little while, YES I promise to marry you."

 

 

 

 

I agree. My concern is that part of the reason she did say yes (coupled with a long engagement) was to avoid losing him given her previous experiences with men who proposed. Thing is, and I don't know for sure, but I don't think TBF would have said yes to those other men no matter how long they had been dating, so a refusal of their proposal (and the resulting destruction of their relationship) wasn't the end of the world.

 

The "right guy" (who we're hoping snowman is!), on the other hand, would understand a desire to wait, if even just to wait to get engaged to begin with.

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

I guess I have a different view about engagement and marriage. In my eyes, saying "Yes!" at the sign of a ring is synonymous to saying "I do" before all your family and friends. It's a commitment. One I don't take lightly, and one I wouldn't make without being as certain as certain gets.

 

Perhaps (and I'm not saying this sarcastically!!!) those who've been divorced (like you and TBF) realize that it can, and does happen (broken promises). But does that mean it's okay?

 

TBF's ex-husband promised fidelity to her. Your ex-husband promised not to be a controlling arse. Both broke those promises. Are you okay with that?

 

Fair point. And no, I'm not ok with that, obviously. But it's because I do know that it DOES happen, since it happened to me, that I know how much more important it is to REALLY sure before I honor that promise. A broken promise is better than a broken heart.

 

 

 

Not true in MOST states.

 

Is that true? I really don't know. I assumed it was the case in most states.

 

 

 

So why did she accept then?

 

Only TBF knows in her heart.

 

I just worry about some sort of ... damage (for lack of a better word) being done to this otherwise PERFECT relationship as a result of her acceptance of something she wasn't ready for.

 

I suspect he really would have understood if she had said, "We're getting close, but not yet."

 

"Damage?" Her acceptance of something she's not ready for, if that's really the case, will not be the cause of any damage, should there be any.

 

The damage will be if they turn out to actually not be compatible. I think that would be more of a cause for heartache and heartbreak than the fact that TBF might have accepted a proposal prematurely.

[sb129]

Lots of engagements are "wait and see" periods without the couples knowing it.

 

Lots of couples agree to get married, but delay it till they have more money, finish school, move in together etc etc.

 

I don't think this is that different.

[Trialbyfire]

TBF I hope you're feeling no less thrilled and in love today than you did the moment he proposed, and that the negative words here haven't caused you any pain or doubt. Thankfully this isn't about proving the legitimacy of your happiness and dedication, it's about celebrating your happiness. And while I can only speak for myself I think others would agree, though we don't really "know" each other here on LS, knowing about the struggle and journey of a fellow LSer makes a happy ending like yours extra sweet

Thanks allina. Nothing can detract from what my fiancé and I have.

 

I will admit to regretting sharing my happiness on LS. I should have known better.

[sb129]

Thanks allina. Nothing can detract from what my fiancé and I have.

 

I will admit to regretting sharing my happiness on LS. I should have known better.

Don't do that!!!

 

Lots of us here are happy for you and please that you shared the news.

[Touche]

TBF, don't be that way. That's not like you. Most on here are THRILLED for you.

 

Now the discussion has taken a turn but it's just a discussion. It doesn't mean that what you did was wrong or premature or anything. That's just the nature of LS and its members. We dissect and analyze everything!

 

What's important is that YOU'RE secure with the engagement. No one can take that away from you.

[Star Gazer]

I think you've been nothing but supportive SG, I certainly wasn't referring to you in my statement.

 

I'm just slightly irked at people basically demanding that TBF explains herself to them, like she has to prove something before she's allowed to celebrate.

 

For the record, all of my questions (other than the girly details [i.e., "What were you wearing?" ]) are really rhetorial in nature and not meant to be answered publicly. She certainly doesn't need to explain herself to me, or anyone else for that matter. It's merely food for thought.

 

Also, I don't think that a certain amount of caution, realism and rational thinking diminishes the love and commitment people have for each other. I do not think that not running out to marry tonight means a couple is any less committed or serious.

 

I do agree with you there. I don't doubt the emotions between TBF and her Snowman AT ALL. What I do wonder about, however, is whether she is ready to make a lifelong commitment right now, and if not, why she'd accept a proposal given the significance of a proposal itself.

 

Perhaps her feelings have changed since the inception of this thread (and I hope that they have), but her acceptance with a long engagement NOT for the purpose of getting things in order (the wedding, living arrangements, finances, whatever) but to "make sure" seems more like, "I'm promising to think about it, check back with me later."

 

What's wrong with knowing in your heart that you will spend the rest of your life with someone but wanting to know them in even more depth to give your mind time to get on board?

 

Okay, see... That's what I am questioning. From her posts here, I'm not sure she knows that... that she WILL spend the rest of her life with him.

 

People are basically saying "Unless you marry him right this moment you don't love him and your engagement is meaningless."

 

I don't think that's what the well-intentioned people are saying. It's a fine line, but I think the distinction isn't that unless she in fact marries him now, the engagement is meaningless, but that unless she's actually READY to marry him right now, that her commitment isn't as solid as it should be.

 

Do you watch "The Bachelor/ette"? As silly as the show seems, obviously tons of people believe in it. These Bachelor/ettes take their prospective spouses home to meet the 'rents and family, and EVERY TIME they're asked, "Are you SURE about this? I mean, really, really sure? Because this is serious business."

 

The same applies here. While there are clearly people here trying to poo poo on TBF's love parade, those of us who are a little cautious about this are no less excited about the situation and its prospects ... we just want to help make sure that she's sure-sure.

 

I don't know. I keep waffling. I totally believe in the whole love-at-first-sight (or love-at-first-snow-shovel ). But I'm admittedly a hapless romantic, whereas TBF is really methodical.

[Star Gazer]

You're right, Touche. This is merely a discussion.

 

Thanks allina. Nothing can detract from what my fiancé and I have.

 

I will admit to regretting sharing my happiness on LS. I should have known better.

 

Given that this thread has been silent with "detractors" for most of the afternoon and I only recently got back to the office to post here, and now you're saying this, I can only assume you're including me in the above comment. That's really disheartening, and I'm sorry you feel that way, particularly given how excited and supportive I've been of this whole romance from start to present.

 

[Touche]

I must admit, the snowman has balls.

 

TO propose like that, in public, after such a short time- he must have been pretty sure she would say yes.

 

No. What makes men like this "have balls" is the fact that they're not sure of the answer but they ask anyway. It's really true. I asked my H that once. And he told me he had NO idea what I'd say and he was scared.

 

But he did it anyway.

 

Now THAT'S what I call "balls."

 

He's always told me that a "turtle doesn't get anywhere unless he sticks his neck out."

 

He lives by those words.

 

SG, you mention the Bachelor/ette. Yes, I watch that stupid show I'm embarrassed to admit. But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

They may propose (or not) at the end of the show but how many ended in an actual MARRIAGE? Even after so many accepted the proposal? I think maybe ONE in many seasons.

 

And they were oh so serious. They all said they were REALLY, really serious.

 

So I'm really not sure what you were trying to say there.

[shadowplay]

Thanks allina. Nothing can detract from what my fiancé and I have.

 

I will admit to regretting sharing my happiness on LS. I should have known better.

 

You shouldn't regret it. The majority of people in this thread have been overjoyed for you. Even many of those who doubted your decision raised good points that you yourself considered after he popped the question. While some of the conspiracy theorists may be motivated by jealousy, I don't believe that people like James are.

[Trialbyfire]

No, not you ladies.

 

I'm just tired of this. Tired of the "proof of love" and "proof of me" crap.

 

I've turned down four other proposals and been married/divorced once. Fear of loss never governs my actions. Yes, I've taken a mini-leap of faith. Yes, I've extended out the engagement period, to ensure I don't make the same mistake twice.

 

Marriage is a big step. I take it seriously. This will be my last marriage, one way or another. I mean that seriously. This is it.

[sunshinegirl]

Woman, I just want to know how you've managed to get so many men to propose to you? I can barely get a man to say I love you.

[Star Gazer]

SG, you mention the Bachelor/ette. Yes, I watch that stupid show I'm embarrassed to admit. But I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

My point was that people (the family and friends) question the Bachelor/ette's readiness for marriage or urge caution all the time, without being accused of being naysayers.

 

I was feeling accused of being a naysayer, when that wasn't my intention at all. I'm hoping I've made that clear throughout?

 

But you do bring up a good point:

 

They may propose (or not) at the end of the show but how many ended in an actual MARRIAGE? Even after so many accepted the proposal? I think maybe ONE in many seasons.

 

And they were oh so serious. They all said they were REALLY, really serious.

 

So I'm really not sure what you were trying to say there.

 

You just made the show potentially analogous to TBF's engagement.

 

Again, I guess I just see engagement differently.

[Star Gazer]

No, not you ladies.

 

Am I one of said "ladies"? I hope so!!! I'm still rooting for Snowman!!!

 

 

I'm just tired of this. Tired of the "proof of love" and "proof of me" crap.

 

Again, I don't think anyone is questioning your feelings, or his for that matter.

 

Feelings don't necessarily govern what you're ready for.

 

Yes, I've taken a mini-leap of faith. Yes, I've extended out the engagement period, to ensure I don't make the same mistake twice.

 

Marriage is a big step. I take it seriously. This will be my last marriage, one way or another. I mean that seriously. This is it.

 

I'm really happy to hear that. But again (rhetorical): How is this only a mini-leap of faith, and not a really big one?

[Trialbyfire]

Woman, I just want to know how you've managed to get so many men to propose to you? I can barely get a man to say I love you.

Hell if I know. Maybe there's something in the water around here.

[sunshinegirl]

Hell if I know. Maybe there's something in the water around here.

 

If that's the case, you could make a killing bottling and selling it... !

 

(Send a few out trial samples out to my zip code, k?)

[Trialbyfire]

Am I one of said "ladies"? I hope so!!! I'm still rooting for Snowman!!!

Yes.

Again, I don't think anyone is questioning your feelings, or his for that matter.

 

Feelings don't necessarily govern what you're ready for.

Yes they do govern what I'm ready for. They tell me if I'm ready for this or not.

I'm really happy to hear that. But again (rhetorical): How is this only a mini-leap of faith, and not a really big one?

It constitutes a mini leap of faith because if I'd known him for years, it wouldn't be a leap of faith at all.

 

We both want this. He's everything I've always wanted in a man and more. Having said that, I need to satisfy my mind too, not just my heart. The extended engagement period will give my mind greater certainty, that this was the right choice. My heart's already convinced it is.

[Touche]

My point was that people (the family and friends) question the Bachelor/ette's readiness for marriage or urge caution all the time, without being accused of being naysayers.

 

I was feeling accused of being a naysayer, when that wasn't my intention at all. I'm hoping I've made that clear throughout?

 

Ok, I gotcha. Although I don't think TBF thinks that about you if I had to guess. But she can speak for herself of course.

 

But you do bring up a good point:

 

 

 

You just made the show potentially analogous to TBF's engagement.

 

Again, I guess I just see engagement differently.

 

Not really. I guess my point is that you can be TOTALLY sure at the time or not and you STILL can't always know the outcome.

 

I mean how do we know that the people on that show were any more or less serious than TBF is now?

 

The outcome just can't always be predicted.

 

When I accepted, in the back of my mind I knew that if I saw, over the next few months until our wedding date, ANYTHING no matter how minute about Mr. T that went against what I thought I knew about him and saw in him, I would have bailed.

 

It wasn't something I consciously thought about when I accepted his proposal but yeah, it gave me a little small measure of comfort.

 

I guess those of us who have been divorced are even that much more cautious. Maybe you can't really understand that unless you've gone through it yourself.

 

A divorce from someone whom you thought you'd spend the rest of your life with is one of the most painful things imaginable. It doesn't even come CLOSE to a breakup with a b/f-g/f. Totally different thing.

[Trialbyfire]

If that's the case, you could make a killing bottling and selling it... !

 

(Send a few out trial samples out to my zip code, k?)

For four easy installments of $19.99, you can also have this love potion.

[shadowplay]

How does he compare to your ex husband personality wise?

 

Does he have that intensity/force that you've said you look for in men? Is he exactly in line with what you've found attractive in the past, or is he different in some way?

 

I'm trying to get a sense of his personality.

[Touche]

It constitutes a mini leap of faith because if I'd known him for years, it wouldn't be a leap of faith at all.

 

And what I was thinking is that if you really weren't sure it wouldn't be a "mini" leap. It would be a BIG leap of faith. But you didn't say that.

 

I can totally relate to the "mini" leap of faith. I know exactly where you're coming from.

 

So what this comes down to is how sure you are when you accept a proposal, right?

 

You know what? I think the more important question is how sure are you when you take your vows.

 

Let's really look at what is important in the end here.

 

And again, as I said earlier...better a broken promise than a broken heart (from divorce.)

[norajane]

If that's the case, you could make a killing bottling and selling it... !

 

(Send a few out trial samples out to my zip code, k?)

 

Me too! Me too! I could use some trial samples. Or a gallon bottle...actually, make it two. :bunny:

 

Personally, I'm envious as hell as I've been more than a little lonely lately. But, I am thrilled for you, as well as for sb and allina and star!

 

And I wish you and the snowman all the best.

[norajane]

For four easy installments of $19.99, you can also have this love potion.

 

Are you offering a volume discount??

[Touche]

How does he compare to your ex husband personality wise?

 

Does he have that intensity/force that you've said you look for in men? Is he exactly in line with what you've found attractive in the past, or is he different in some way?

 

I'm trying to get a sense of his personality.

 

Ooooh, I love those questions. I was sitting here mentally answering them myself (again.)

 

Those are excellent questions to ask oneself. For sure. Yep, I asked myself those same questions at the time.

[Star Gazer]

Personally, I'm envious as hell as I've been more than a little lonely lately. But, I am thrilled for you, as well as for sb and allina and star!

 

And I wish you and the snowman all the best.

 

YOU are next. You deserve it.

[burning 4 revenge]

Are you offering a volume discount??

I can set you up with someone close