Untouchable_Fire Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I think the issue of cheating has shifted away from a gender based phenomenon to a PEOPLE BASED phenomenon and rightfully so. An undisciplined coward will cheat, male or female. The rest of us who manage to stay faithful are not chopped liver and it'so not like we don't get tempted but you summon that will power, you gather that integrity and use it to fight temptation. It's about common decency and basic respect. I don't stray because what I have at home, while not perfect, is more important than a quick roll in the hay. It's that simple. I agree 100% with your original post. I can say without any doubt that I would never have gone outside my marriage had my ex taken your approach. People can talk all they want, but at the end of the day, if your wife won't touch you... any man with self esteem will go somewhere else. My mistake was giving her too many chances to pretend like she loved me. I should have ended it and then found someone else, but whatever. In regards to Feminists... most women are not radical feminists. The ones who are.... are just a bunch of spoiled A-holes.
Woggle Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 This is why I am just a jerk to most women. Why be an evolved man when it will still get you cheated on and treated like trash by most women. If I am still a man that deserves whatever treatment I get because of what daddy did to mommy might as well get some milieage out of being a target. This is what I mean when I say that being an evolved man does not get you a one of the good ones pass from women. They will not treat you any better than they will treat your average man.
taylor Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 The cougar is popular with younger men because she's easy and fun and won't usually be a pain to ditch. I should know, trust me. As everyone is probably aware I'm not adverse to age-different relationships, I've been with women from 24 years younger to 16 years older than me. The older man is also popular with younger women because he offers her fun for awhile and can be easily ditched. Later, a lot of single older men just don't have the stones or confidence to approach younger women so they go for women their own age or older. Or maybe they just get tired of getting ditched after spending tons of money to show them how fun they are. Maybe after a while they realize they don't have much in common with the girls and opt for a woman they can have a real conversation with, ie, they grow up. If younger women are less desirable, where are all the cosmetic products to help turn that glowing 19 year old skin into something that looks a lot older? Not a huge market I'm betting. Who said younger women aren't desire? Not me. Our society is obsessed with youth and easily equate it with beauty and value. By the same token, younger men are also desireable and highly valued. Hence, the cougar phenomenon.
carhill Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Why be an evolved man when it will still get you cheated on and treated like trash by most women. For me, it's pretty simple.... at the end of the day, and at the end of my life, I can feel good and feel positive about who I am and who I was and how I impacted the world. I didn't compromise my principles and philosophies at the altar of others. I now see clearly those women who treat men in such ways (as you described) for who they really are. They have their own lives to reconcile. That's healthy
pyroguy Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Woggle, good point. Some men can be too nice, even at the admission of many women. It is ironic how today's more evolved male is the one that gets treated worse. Men have to realize that this is brave new world, and I think they have to look at and treat women accordingly. Now, this is not said in a hateful or desrespectful way women, but just think men have to forget the old school and realize the following: Women cheat women WILL want other men do not put women on a pedestal- and this does not mean-not treat her well. It means women are not pure virgins, waiting for her knight, and who will never desire another man or cheat. THEY WILL-JUST LIKE MEN Understand they are sexual as well. It may suck that she wants 1,000 other men besides you, but unfortunately, it's true. Accept it or be single. I just hope it doesn't become a contest to see who can do it better. Women, by nature and their gender are far superior at this if they want to be. In fact, currently, it's like a ballgame, and women are blowing us out and the game is almost over- socially, I so want to be a woman:D
Woggle Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I know that I am winning in my world and that is all a man can do. If men would grow some balls we can win the battle of the sexes but too many men are caught up with pleasing women.
carhill Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 That's merely a result of other, less-evolved men not being up on the current state of affairs and living their lives like the old days and responding to women in the old ways. It's kind of humorous, actually, watching them
Green Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Sex isn't as esential as water to me. I was a single man not getting laid for over a year and it was hard and torture but I was looking for the right girl. Now that I'm in a relationship I let my gf know how important sex was to me I even said it was something I would potentialy break up over if I wasn't getting sex obviously if it was because of some sickness or something I'd be understanding. When I complained about how we didn't have sex my gf said but you were single all that time why would you be upset about not having sex and I said that when I was single I expected no sex but when you have a girlfriend who you are spending time with and investing your emotions and future with that no sex becomes something unaceptable and just like there are things she needs to be able to do in the relationship there are things I need sex being one of them. I would no doubt break up if the sex dropped below a certain level.
pyroguy Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Woggle and Carhill, I agree with you, but I didn't mean in anyway to imply that men should treat women without the utmost respect. I just mean that they should change their outlook on women, love,sex, and relationships. CArhill, yes, there are still men who either act like an ******* to women and deserve what they get, or there are jst as many who expect that women have no sexual thoughts or fantasies, and would never cheat The age of innocence is over.
Woggle Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I treat women with the civility that any other human being would get but they have to earn my respect. Until I know what they are about I don't trust them and they get neutral treatment.
Author manugeorge Posted February 27, 2009 Author Posted February 27, 2009 I treat women with the civility that any other human being would get but they have to earn my respect. Until I know what they are about I don't trust them and they get neutral treatment. Woggle, all the women in the world can **** on you but it usually takes just one to restore your faith. I often find that people don't seek out partners that is a right fit FOR THEM, instead, they look for a cookie cutter, run-of-the-mill Jane/John Doe that is nice enough. Which is what tends to lead to constant disappointment. I personally believe that you just can't shack up with any ol' generic person who isn't a bitch or an *******. There has to be commonalities that are unique to just the two of you, certain quirks that you, her and very few others in the world share. Things that make you two feel like peas in the same pod. You both have to share a certain view of the world, an "in joke" that make other people go, huh?. I liken it to the two of you being weirdos together because you get each other in some ways very few others do. That is what makes for a good partnership that can weather storms when they come. You see life like it's the two of you against the world, and therefore you automatically, by default, take care of each other, your happiness and wellbeing is important to each other and you go the extra mile to show that. It is not to say you won't fight, or fuss or sometimes want to kill each other but at the end of the day, you still have her back and she has yours. It only takes that one woman woggle, I hope you find her soon.
Woggle Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I have found her and it only makes other women look bad by comparison.
taylor Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 This is why I am just a jerk to most women. Why be an evolved man when it will still get you cheated on and treated like trash by most women. If I am still a man that deserves whatever treatment I get because of what daddy did to mommy might as well get some milieage out of being a target. This is what I mean when I say that being an evolved man does not get you a one of the good ones pass from women. They will not treat you any better than they will treat your average man. There are many "GOOD' women who get cheated on as well, Woggle. Being good gives no one a guarantee that you won't get crapped on. You can be a jerk if you want to. It's your choice. Those who choose to be "NICE" guys don't make that choice because they think they will get some kind of reward in the end, the "What am I gonna get out of it mentality." They do it because they are men of integrity...they do the right thing because they want to live their lives based on a certain set of values that they are comfortable with, that give meaning to their lives, and that give them a means of staying true to themselves. I ditto everything Carhill said so eloquently as well.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 The older man is also popular with younger women because he offers her fun for awhile and can be easily ditched. He offers maturity and financial security. The easily ditched part is not entirely accurate. Most women who choose older men don't plan on ditching. I rarely see women who run a hump and dump on a guy. The closest you will see to that are prostitutes. Or maybe they just get tired of getting ditched after spending tons of money to show them how fun they are. Maybe after a while they realize they don't have much in common with the girls and opt for a woman they can have a real conversation with, ie, they grow up. That does not happen often. Guys who date younger stay that way. That's why it is so hard to be a single old woman. Of course if you have money and a good plastic surgeon that changes things. It's also rare. Who said younger women aren't desire? Not me. Our society is obsessed with youth and easily equate it with beauty and value. By the same token, younger men are also desireable and highly valued. Hence, the cougar phenomenon. Younger men have fewer assets, and older women don't tend to have time to wait for them to accumulate them. Cougars are usually divorcees, they just have limited options.
taylor Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 CArhill, yes, there are still men who either act like an ******* to women and deserve what they get, or there are jst as many who expect that women have no sexual thoughts or fantasies, and would never cheat The age of innocence is over. Who EVER said women didn't have sexual thoughts or fantasies? Why would you expect that she wouldn't? She's human, isn't she? ALL women have sexual thoughts and fantasies. NOT ALL women cheat.
Woggle Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I am sorry but I refuse to be a martyr for women who will just crap on me anyway.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 It only takes that one woman woggle, I hope you find her soon. No, this starts with Woggles relationship with his mom. If you have a good mom you grow up with respect for women. It makes things much easier to deal with when you meet the more worthless examples of the fairer sex. Misogynists are not born, they are created.
taylor Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 He offers maturity and financial security. The easily ditched part is not entirely accurate. Most women who choose older men don't plan on ditching. I rarely see women who run a hump and dump on a guy. The closest you will see to that are prostitutes. I can see that if the woman is looking for a real relationship. But men also chase after young girls who are no where near ready to settle down. They just wanna have fun. These young girls have a little fun playing with his money and his ....and then move on. They get bored. I wouldn't consider these girls prostitutes. That does not happen often. Guys who date younger stay that way. That's why it is so hard to be a single old woman. Of course if you have money and a good plastic surgeon that changes things. It's also rare. I agree most continue to chase young girls..and get nowhere...until they get too old and give up the chase. They never do grow up. Those that do, will look for someone in their own age group with common interests. Younger men have fewer assets, and older women don't tend to have time to wait for them to accumulate them. Cougars are usually divorcees, they just have limited options. From what I read,,, cougars are usually financially independent. They don't care if the guy has two cents in his pocket. They are just out for a good time with a young guy and they are willing to pick up the tab.
pyroguy Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Who EVER said women didn't have sexual thoughts or fantasies? Why would you expect that she wouldn't? She's human, isn't she? ALL women have sexual thoughts and fantasies. NOT ALL women cheat. Correct! and still many men want their women to be sweet polly pure bread, or expect it. Of course, even in an ideal world, even I wish the wife fantasized about me:rolleyes:. And, the overall thought is to stop pretending that woman don't cheat and that their reasons for doing so are many times just as shallow as men. Of course, not all women cheat, but one needs to keep ontheir toes and be realistic, and yes that does mean meeting her needs as well.
taylor Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Cougars and Fools (older men who chase girls) BOTH ditch the youngsters with ease. And the youngsters often know the game..and they play it well. People should stick to their own age group if they want real relationships.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I can see that if the woman is looking for a real relationship. But men also chase after young girls who are no where near ready to settle down. They just wanna have fun. These young girls have a little fun playing with his money and his ....and then move on. They get bored. I wouldn't consider these girls prostitutes. I have some experience with the young girl, old guy thing. Standard of living is like a drug to most of those girls. They get used to having a guy who has money and can't give it up. Even ones that are not all superficial can get sucked in. Unless the guy is already married, he will rarely be the one who gets dumped. Unless she meets a guy with similar income. I agree most continue to chase young girls..and get nowhere...until they get too old and give up the chase. They never do grow up. Those that do, will look for someone in their own age group with common interests. From what I see a good chunk of those guys just find a woman 10 years younger and fall in love. Some wind up lifetime bachelors. From what I read,,, cougars are usually financially independent. They don't care if the guy has two cents in his pocket. They are just out for a good time with a young guy and they are willing to pick up the tab. Every single one I have ever met was a divorcee living off alimony. Trying to prove they still "got it". Trust me, for every 1 independently wealthy woman who likes younger men, there are 500 who don't have much in terms of "their own money". I would like to say that a SAHM who winds up divorced has just as much right to that income as the man who worked to make it! So, I'm not dogging divorced ladies. It's just the truth about the whole cougar phenomenon is that it is created by the divorce culture.
taylor Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I have some experience with the young girl, old guy thing. Standard of living is like a drug to most of those girls. They get used to having a guy who has money and can't give it up. Even ones that are not all superficial can get sucked in. Unless the guy is already married, he will rarely be the one who gets dumped. Unless she meets a guy with similar income. From what I see a good chunk of those guys just find a woman 10 years younger and fall in love. Some wind up lifetime bachelors. Every single one I have ever met was a divorcee living off alimony. Trying to prove they still "got it". Trust me, for every 1 independently wealthy woman who likes younger men, there are 500 who don't have much in terms of "their own money". I would like to say that a SAHM who winds up divorced has just as much right to that income as the man who worked to make it! So, I'm not dogging divorced ladies. It's just the truth about the whole cougar phenomenon is that it is created by the divorce culture. Well, UF, I can't debate much here with you. I didn't marry for money. When I was 20 a 43 year old businessman who travelled alot on business asked if I would be his "secretary" and travel with him over the next two years. He had alot of personal assets and wasn't bad looking. He led a glamourous life that I didn't. But there was no way in hell I was going to become his "secretary." The whole idea just turned me off. I felt sorry for him. When I met up with my girlfriends later we all had a good laugh and in unison went, "EEWWW!" And then we met up with some guys our own age. I don't think a guy or girl marrying someone ten years younger than them constitutes "cougar" or "fool" mentality. Some people are just more young at heart than others, so get along better with people a little younger. Some people are "old souls" and are more comfortable with people a little older than themselves. I don't think 10 years is much to blink at. I'm talking about the 25 and 30 year old age differences. Maybe we are looking a the picture a little differently. Can't say I know that much about the cougar mentality, either. Only what I've read. And I'm not divorced or living off alimony, so can't quite relate. But I can't help but think older women would go for younger men for the same reason older men go for younger women....the attraction. Why an older man would STAY with a much younger woman or why an older woman would STAY with a much younger man...not a clue.
taylor Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Correct! and still many men want their women to be sweet polly pure bread, or expect it. Of course, even in an ideal world, even I wish the wife fantasized about me:rolleyes:. And, the overall thought is to stop pretending that woman don't cheat and that their reasons for doing so are many times just as shallow as men. Of course, not all women cheat, but one needs to keep ontheir toes and be realistic, and yes that does mean meeting her needs as well. A woman can still be a sweet poly pure bread and still have sexual thoughts and fantasies. If the sweet ploy pure breads of the world didn't have sexual thoughts and fantasies, NONE of them would have ever gotten married or ever engaged in sex. You are starting to sound like an evolved man, pyroguy.
pyroguy Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 I think I am an evolved man;). Yes, the stuff I mentioned in the earlier posts does bother me, but I also know there is nothing I can do about it. And, I think mens better days are behind them. This is now a womans world. They're better at the whole older woman-younger man/ older man-younger woman thing, hence the term cougar. Again, the point was about women and wives in particular being put on a pedestal and thinking they can do no wrong is, as we know, not true.This is independent of any sexual thoughts. Hell, if my wife had no sexual thoughts, I'd be one bored soul. I'm the one who buys her the vibrator- and use it with her, but I guess that's for another forum section.
taylor Posted February 27, 2009 Posted February 27, 2009 Taylor, You have that biased typical opinion. It's typical of women to have this "they did it, so now we can" mentality. What does that solve? Just because grandpa acted a certain way, men now have to pay the price. No, pyroguy, this is NOT what I am saying. I am not saying women DO because men DID. I am just saying women DO. Men DO now and DID then. Women are not DOING now BECAUSE men did, they are DOING now because THEY CAN. Women have been given the sexual freedom that men have enjoyed for centuries. But with this sexual freedom comes responsibility. Grandpa and his generation did not handle it properly. They let prostitution and cheating continue, leading to a further decline in society's sexual integrity. They taught their sons that it's OK to open strip clubs, enjoy the lap dance, clog the internet with porn. But let's let grandpa rest in peace. Every generation is responsible for writing its own history. Men today are more sexually demented now than they have ever been. Taking just a glance at adult video games and internet porn should be enough to convince you of that. The thing is women have only recently been given the same sexual freedoms that men have had for years. Some of this freedom is good. Some bad. For example, women no longer have to stay in horrible marriages when their husbnads cheat on them or abuse them. They don't have to live with alcoholics and drug addicts. They don't have to live with husbands who abuse their children. Women are freer to divorce because the stigma no longer exists and because other equal rights for women has made it possible for them to support themselves. The bad side is that, again, with sexual freedom comes sexual responsibility, and like their male counterparts, women have taken advantage of that freedom in the most negative ways. No, it's not good. But NO ONE should be surprised about it. Our society has nonchalantly sat back and watched men act sexually irresponsible..both yesterday and today. Why in the world should society now, all of a sudden be outraged when a woman does the same thing. The outrage should have happened years ago. If it had, there would be no strip clubs, no porn sights...no one getting rich off the sexually irresponsible people in our society. No, two wrongs don't make a right. But no one should lament the loss of women's "purity" unless they aren't also lamenting the loss of men's "purity." It was bound to happen, don't you think? Do you really think women were going to remain sweet poly purebreds while their men went off merrily on their demented sexual escapades. Sooner or later they were bound to join in. We as PEOPLE have lost our innocence. It didn't just start happening yesterday...or with the women's movement...it started long ago.
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