Sex and what it means to Men

[taylor]

Imagine the confusion of men today my age and younger. In Grandpa's day, yes, the men (and not all as is the myth) helped little with chores and the kids, probably had more affairs or fooled around with a younger woman, if he could. Today, men, despite some situations, help out more ,are much more hands-on with the children, and generally treat their wives better. Yet, it's this generation of men that get cheated on-go figure. But, in your logic, it's somehow just- cause for what grandpa did 50 years ago.

 

Poor Grandpa. I guess we can't let him rest in peace, after all, can we?

 

The thing is pyro that while Grandpa was out chasing and screwing other women half Grandma's age, where was Grandma?

 

She was this sweet poly purebread at home making his dinner, washing (and ironing) his clothes, taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, AND trying to keep him sexually satisfied.

 

FOR WHAT? WHAT DID SHE GET OUT OF DOING ALL THAT?

 

Did ANYONE ever stop to think Grandma didn't deserve to be cheated on after ALL she did for him?

 

Why was no one outraged then?

 

Now, men are outraged when their wives are doing the same thing their fathers and grandfathers did? Why get outraged now?

 

Why are men expecting a "reward" for being "nice" and "helpful" around the house? Grandma was nice and helpful and she never got a reward...she got cheated on.

 

So why should any man expect to be treated differently than grandma?

[GorillaTheater]

Now, men are outraged when their wives are doing the same thing their fathers and grandfathers did? Why get outraged now?

 

Why are men expecting a "reward" for being "nice" and "helpful" around the house? Grandma was nice and helpful and she never got a reward...she got cheated on.

 

So why should any man expect to be treated differently than grandma?

 

I see we're back to "Grandpa" being the justification for current crappy behavior, although you'll post again that that's not what you meant and that we're nuts for taking it that way. Unless of course you still have me on "ignore".

[gopher]

For me, it's pretty simple.... at the end of the day, and at the end of my life, I can feel good and feel positive about who I am and who I was and how I impacted the world. I didn't compromise my principles and philosophies at the altar of others.

 

I now see clearly those women who treat men in such ways (as you described) for who they really are. They have their own lives to reconcile. That's healthy

 

Brilliant post Sir...

[Untouchable_Fire]

But I can't help but think older women would go for younger men for the same reason older men go for younger women....the attraction.

 

Why an older man would STAY with a much younger woman or why an older woman would STAY with a much younger man...not a clue.

 

The fact that you said no to the secretary deal says that you are comfortable with yourself and are not overly superficial. That may be why it is hard to relate to people who need older/younger mates.

 

People tend to chase after the things in relationships that they don't have.

 

Women who are poor look for wealthy men. Women who are losing their looks want men who are attractive. Men are the same. Why? Because it fills a hole in either our physical needs or our emotional needs.

 

Bottom line is that there will always be people who look to fix themselves by finding a mate who compensates for what they lack.

 

So, any of us who are a complete person... we will never really understand them. The same way I can't understand how a heroine addict craves.

[taylor]

To men, their sexuality is sort of the heart of their masculinity. They don't need sex like food or water, and when in a relationship they look at it as your affection. It's their acceptance, their worth.

 

And I think women feel this way as well. All people, men and women, have a tendency to define their self-worth by those who love and care for them the most. It's where they derive their greatest sense of value. And there is no denying that BOTH men and women want to be valued for their sexuality.

 

So, where is it going from here? Should we all just stop even having relationships? what's the point? what should I tell my kids? How should I proceed with my 8 year old son? should I raise him with the values I learned and how to treat a woman? or just forget it because women want to get even with grandpa?

 

No, we shouldn't stop having relationships.

 

Proceed with your grandson by raising him with your good values and teach him how to treat PEOPLE. Tell him to be a man of integrity even if all those around him seem to be having more fun without it. Tell him to do unto others as he would have them do unto him. Pray that he will use discretion in choosing his relationships.

 

 

No one wants to get even with great Grandpa or great-great grandpa. But these men acted irresponsibly and as a result created a sexual world with no integrity that both men AND WOMEN are participating in now. Why? BECAUSE THEY CAN.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Poor Grandpa. I guess we can't let him rest in peace, after all, can we?

The thing is pyro that while Grandpa was out chasing and screwing other women half Grandma's age, where was Grandma?

She was this sweet poly purebread at home making his dinner, washing (and ironing) his clothes, taking care of the kids, cleaning the house, AND trying to keep him sexually satisfied.

FOR WHAT? WHAT DID SHE GET OUT OF DOING ALL THAT?

Did ANYONE ever stop to think Grandma didn't deserve to be cheated on after ALL she did for him?

Why was no one outraged then?

Now, men are outraged when their wives are doing the same thing their fathers and grandfathers did? Why get outraged now?

Why are men expecting a "reward" for being "nice" and "helpful" around the house? Grandma was nice and helpful and she never got a reward...she got cheated on.

So why should any man expect to be treated differently than grandma?

 

Do you really believe all that? Most of that was just an Image. My Grandpa was a total cad. However, every single woman he messed around with was also married. You realize that it usually takes 2 to cheat right?

 

Besides are you your grandma? Did you marry your grandfather? Let it go!

 

Society is different now. It is sheer stupidity to try and punish a man for some injustice he didn't do, and that did not happen to you. What do you want next, 40 acres and a mule? I'm never going to feel bad for what some guy did before I was born. Anyone who does is a complete idiot!!!

[Woggle]

I see nothing at all wrong with going to strip clubs and looking at porn and I mean that for both men and women. What I do have a problem with is somebody having trust in you and having that trust betrayed and stomped on in the worst way. I don't tolerate from friends and family and I damn sure won't tolerate it from a woman. As much as I might mistrust women I have never in my life abused a woman or even betrayed her despite going through abuse as a child that turns some men into serial killers. This is why this avenging grandma excuse that women use in how they treat men just wears thin on me.

[taylor]

I see we're back to "Grandpa" being the justification for current crappy behavior, although you'll post again that that's not what you meant and that we're nuts for taking it that way. Unless of course you still have me on "ignore".

 

Hi Gorilla,

 

Don't have it in me to ignore anyone for too long. In fact, I apologize for being so irritable with you.

 

I read thru your posts and see you have ton of kids. A man has to be pretty unselfish to devote himself to that much "fatherhood."

 

(I am curious tho as to what might be "missing" in your life, as you questioned in one of your posts. For another thread, tho...perhaps).

 

Back on topic...

 

Grandpa created a world of deviance that men like him "enjoyed" for years with little threat or objection from anyone.

 

Women now are free to join this sexually deviant world that Grandpa created...just because THEY CAN...not because they want to get even. Getting even doesnt even cross their mind. The motivation is ATTRACTION. What attracts a man to sexual deviance is the same thing that attracts a woman to it. The thing is now she can "join in" without the same stigma or repercussions she would have felt a few years ago.

 

No one blamed Grandpa for creating the world he created while Grandma was baking bread and getting grease stains out of his shirts.

 

But no one should be surprised or outraged if there are women who choose to do what Grandpa did. It's just a natural progression of the deterioration of our society's sexual integrity.

 

The thing is men are now feeling what Grandma felt. If these men want to blame someone, blame Grandpa for creating a sexual world that is now unhealthy for both men and women.

 

But, truly, it serves no purpose to blame Grandpa. He's dead and gone. He left the mess. Someone has to clean it up. Until men and women both decide to change, nothing will.

 

And until they do change, men are going to have to just deal with what Grandma dealt with. The thing is men have alot more choices nowadays than Grandma ever had.

 

I was trying to come up with an analogy as to why men should not expect empathy in light of women's new-found sexual freedom. This is the best I can do:

 

A bully on the playground constantly harrasses and steals money from the little shrimpy geeky kids. No one scolds him. No one corrects him. No one stops him. The behavior continues and the geeky kids just suck it up because they don't see any opportunity for change.

 

Then a new kid comes onto the playground. He's the same size as the bully. He harasses the bully and steals his money. The bully starts to cry. He jumps up and down that the other kid stole his money and is harrassing him. He says how hungry he is now because he had no money to buy lunch. He complains and cries to the other kids. Says it isn't right. It isn't fair.

 

No one pays the bully any attention. The geeky kids just shake their heads and say, "Now he knows how we feel."

[GorillaTheater]

I was trying to come up with an analogy as to why men should not expect empathy in light of women's new-found sexual freedom. This is the best I can do:

 

A bully on the playground constantly harrasses and steals money from the little shrimpy geeky kids. No one scolds him. No one corrects him. No one stops him. The behavior continues and the geeky kids just suck it up because they don't see any opportunity for change.

 

Then a new kid comes onto the playground. He's the same size as the bully. He harasses the bully and steals his money. The bully starts to cry. He jumps up and down that the other kid stole his money and is harrassing him. He says how hungry he is now because he had no money to buy lunch. He complains and cries to the other kids. Says it isn't right. It isn't fair.

 

No one pays the bully any attention. The geeky kids just shake their heads and say, "Now he knows how we feel."

 

Thanks for the apology. I'm sorry for my part in it as well. Not terribly sorry, since sometimes I savor a good fight. Which leads me to your latest analogy.

 

I think I understand what your trying to say regarding the state of affairs we find ourselves in, but I disagree entirely with your take on empathy. Overlaying the grandpa analogy over the bully analogy, you could just as well state that the bully's son or grandson should suck it up when bullied because of what his forebearer did. Or that no empathy is due Hutus in Rwanda should they be massacred by the Tutsis over what happened in 1994. It seems to me that you're arguing that "karma" trumps empathy.

 

The thing is, I don't see the need, or even the point, in empathizing with "men", or "women", or "bullies", or "Hutus", or any other general group. The need is to empathize with individuals in difficult postions.

 

As for my thread on the issue you referred to, I'm still thinking through whether there is, in fact, an issue, or whether it's just an overactive imagination.

[taylor]

I see nothing at all wrong with going to strip clubs and looking at porn and I mean that for both men and women.

 

Of course you don't. It's part of that deviant culture that men created and you have bought right into it.

 

While some women don't mind porn, others do.

 

What about prostitution, child pornography, lap dances with touching, video games that portray women as sexual objects, copping a feel from your engaged secretary, flirting with the 16 year old check out girl....where do you draw the line, Woggle.

 

I wouldn't trust any man that went to a strip club nowadays..but then that's just me.

 

This is why this avenging grandma excuse that women use in how they treat men just wears thin on me.

 

No one is trying to avenge grandma. But I don't see why men expect empathy when they are the ones that started the sexual deviance and continue to proliferate it in the worst way.

 

How many women do you know own and promote strip clubs?

How many women run prostitution rings?

How many women design sexually deviant video games that objectify women in gross ways?

How many internet porn sites are designed and run by women?

 

This generation owns its own sexual problems that are eroding society. But these problems are grandpa's legacy...only magnified beyond grandpa's wildest imagination.

 

In light of the above problems listed above, it continues to be a man's world. The difference between Grandma and today's woman is that today's woman doesn't have to sit back and take it anymore. And no man should be unhappy about that.

[clv0116]

Wow this thread is destroyed.

[taylor]

Thanks for the apology. I'm sorry for my part in it as well. Not terribly sorry, since sometimes I savor a good fight. Which leads me to your latest analogy.

 

I think I understand what your trying to say regarding the state of affairs we find ourselves in, but I disagree entirely with your take on empathy. Overlaying the grandpa analogy over the bully analogy, you could just as well state that the bully's son or grandson should suck it up when bullied because of what his forebearer did. Or that no empathy is due Hutus in Rwanda should they be massacred by the Tutsis over what happened in 1994. It seems to me that you're arguing that "karma" trumps empathy.

 

The thing is, I don't see the need, or even the point, in empathizing with "men", or "women", or "bullies", or "Hutus", or any other general group. The need is to empathize with individuals in difficult postions.

 

As for my thread on the issue you referred to, I'm still thinking through whether there is, in fact, an issue, or whether it's just an overactive imagination.

 

I see your point, Gorilla.

 

I am having a difficult time trying to say what I want to say.

 

It's not so much that men shouldn't expect empathy (I truly DO empathize with good decent guys who get screwed by women..and there are alot of b----ches out there)

 

But men shouldn't be surprised if they don't get any empathy because for generations women didn't get any empathy either. NO ONE really realized or stopped to consider the impact male sexual indiscretions really had on women. So, today, no one is really stopping and looking to see how female sexual indiscretions are affecting today's male.

 

And the few women who do can easily say, "Oh, get over it. You guys dodn't think for one minute whether this kind of stuff bothered us. So why should we worry about whether it bothers you."

 

Take porn for example. Take Woggle for example. He sees nothing wrong with looking at porn. Doesn't think anything wrong with other men looking at porn.

 

Yet there are women who are vehemently against porn, the objectification of women and some have said their marriages are on the brink of divorce because of it.

 

Yet the porn continues.

 

In 20 years from now, when you will be able to walk into strip clubs for women, get lap dances from naked men, and see as much male porn for women on the internet (the time will come) how will Woggle feel about his daughter partaking in these female sexual "fads." No one will empathize with him because he saw nothing wrong with it .

[clv0116]

Take porn for example. Take Woggle for example. He sees nothing wrong with looking at porn. Doesn't think anything wrong with other men looking at porn.

 

No you are misrepresenting what he said by omission. He said it's OK for people to look at porn, not just other men. Women are people too.

[clv0116]

In 20 years from now, when you will be able to walk into strip clubs for women, get lap dances from naked men ...

 

The future is now. Enjoy.

[Woggle]

if my wife went to a strip club I would not care and if my wife looked at porn I would not care. I would much rather she do that than go to some feminist meeting or watch Oprah all day getting riled up against men. Simply adoring some eye candy would be nothing to me.

 

There is a huge difference between entertainment which both parties willfully partake in and betraying a person that you promised to love. I don't care what deviancy people partake in as long as it is honest.

[Woggle]

Also Chipendales clubs have been around since the 70s and most men did not care. There is a difference between hatred and simply sexual attraction which feminists do not seem to notice.

[burning 4 revenge]

if my wife went to a strip club I would not care and if my wife looked at porn I would not care. I would much rather she do that than go to some feminist meeting or watch Oprah all day getting riled up against men. Simply adoring some eye candy would be nothing to me.

 

There is a huge difference between entertainment which both parties willfully partake in and betraying a person that you promised to love. I don't care what deviancy people partake in as long as it is honest.

Is oprah a round brown man-hater?

[taylor]

No you are misrepresenting what he said by omission. He said it's OK for people to look at porn, not just other men. Women are people too.

 

I just assumed if it was OK for him and women, he'd be OK if other men looked at porn, too. Is that too much to assume?

[taylor]

if my wife went to a strip club I would not care and if my wife looked at porn I would not care. I would much rather she do that than go to some feminist meeting or watch Oprah all day getting riled up against men. Simply adoring some eye candy would be nothing to me.

 

Thing is many men don't go to strip clubs just to "adore" eye candy. They touch the eye candy and they let the eye candy touch them. Would you be OK with your wife getting a lap dance from a naked man? Would you mind if she touched him...or he touched her? C'mon, you know what happens in strip clubs.

 

There is a huge difference between entertainment which both parties willfully partake in and betraying a person that you promised to love. I don't care what deviancy people partake in as long as it is honest.

 

So, you wouldn't mind if your wife had phone sex for entertainment as long as she told you about it?

 

You wouldn't mind if your wife told you she and her girlfriends were going to go get lap dances from some naked men next Friday night, as long as she told you about it?

 

You wouldn't mind in the least if she spent 6 or 8 hours looking at porn while you were at work...or after you went to bed...as long as she told you about it?

 

I would say you are quite the evolved man!

[taylor]

The future is now. Enjoy.

 

The point I was trying to make is that Grandpa never would have envisioned the sexual "Monster" that exists today.

 

Nor can we, by what we allow to exist today, envision what will be in 20 years from now.

 

Sexual deviance left unchecked will continue to erode our society, more than what it is now.

 

Who knows, at the rate we're going, in another 100 years, child pornography may be legalized.

[taylor]

Also Chipendales clubs have been around since the 70s and most men did not care. There is a difference between hatred and simply sexual attraction which feminists do not seem to notice.

 

Chippendales are NOTHING compared to what goes on in male strip clubs. And internet porn makes the Chippendales look like a Saturday cartoon.

 

Believe it or not, Woggle, I am not a feminist and I don't hate men.

 

What I do hate is the proliferation of sexual deviance in our society, especially if there are men getting rich by exploiting young women.

 

I just don't see the integrity in it.

 

I am actually a very old-fashioned girl...but one that believes in respecting all people and a sense of common decency.

 

Do you know that the other day I went on the internet to look up a coconut cream pie recipe and adult porn sites popped up?

 

Do you know I had a 18 year old neighbor kid of mine (a girl) ask me if she could look up "Two girls and a cup" on my computer because her computer was "broke"? I didn't know what she was talking about but I let her use it.

 

Later, I looked it up just to see what she was curious about.

 

It made me sick to thing a 17 year old girl would want to watch 2 women grope each other, then crap in a cup, then eat it, then vomit.

 

You really think porn like this is OK? What do you think this says about our society? What would Grandpa think?

[taylor]

Wow this thread is destroyed.

 

This thread isn't destroyed.

 

The thread is about what sex means to men.

 

I think every kind of sex that means something to a man has been mentioned except for perhaps group sex, threesomes and gay sex.

 

The sex industry is a multi-billion dollar industry. Men keep it alive because it means so much to them they are willing to pay for it in so many ways.

[Woggle]

I would have no issue with my wife getting a lapdance or looking at porn. 6 to 8 hours a day doing anything is a bit too much. If she spent that long playing tetris I would be worried as well but that goes for both genders. If she got phone sex I would not care either. We talk about what men and women we find attractive with each other. We draw the line at actually getting intimate with and sleeping with other people but nothing wrong with looking or playing with a stripper.

 

I don't think porn and dirty things are appropriate for children but adults should be allowed to partake in and watch anything they want as long as it doesn't hurt others. Things like child porn or snuff films should be banned but what consenting adults choose to do and watch is their business. Before I started high school I was viewing and listening to worse things than two girls and a cup.

[OldEurope]

The point I was trying to make is that Grandpa never would have envisioned the sexual "Monster" that exists today.

 

Nor can we, by what we allow to exist today, envision what will be in 20 years from now.

 

Sexual deviance left unchecked will continue to erode our society, more than what it is now.

 

Who knows, at the rate we're going, in another 100 years, child pornography may be legalized.

 

At the rate we are going it will happen far sooner than that.

 

The problem is, in part, that much of modern liberalism makes excuses for every kind of human behavior and then expects (demands) the rest of society, who might find such behavior offensive, to view it as normal. So begins the slippery slope of everything goes.

 

If I am against homosexual marriage (and child raising), these days I have hell to pay in many quarters for my views.

 

But once that is institutionalized and "accepted", then why would it not follow that kiddie porn be considered "normal" or sleeping with the pet dog? Where does it end?

 

As we speak, there are gay lobby groups in Europe and America trying to get the age of sexual consent lowered from 18 or 16 or whatever it is, to ten. Yes TEN. This is where we are at. And such people are going to be allowed to adopt kids?

 

WTF?

 

By the way, Taylor, I read, most unfortunately, that posting of yours about your 18 year old neighbor and never heard of anything so sick. In such a case I would inform the parents that they have one sick daughter who needs attention or counseling or something fast.

 

Geez....To think that when I was 18 my eagerness was to watch "Hart to Hart" on t.v.

 

The good old days....already

 

xxooOE

[Woggle]

Don't blame this on the gays. My gay uncle growing up was pretty much the only positive adult figure I had in my life. The rest of my family who are heterosexual are a bunch of wackos.