Yes. It was Wrong

[Dexter Morgan]

Everyone here has had what they call a "bad" marriage. And yes, Dreamlover, if you can get him to "see the light" and help you help the marriage. It is worth a try.

 

Well since she obviously puts all the blame on her husband for her for cheating, then what is HER role in changing if she expects HIM to change?

What is it SHE is going to do? Cuz so far all i am hearing is "he did this"..."he didn't do that" as if she shares none of the responsibility of the marital problems.

 

I realize problems in a marriage can be caused by both parties, but the cheating is hers and hers alone.

 

So if she thinks the marriage is in shambles because of him...what is it that she is going to work on? If its all one sided, then she just needs to get a divorce.

[fetish]

You have got to have some coconut-sized balls made of steel to cheat on your husband for two years. Although, i've cheated in the past, i found out quickly that business wasn't for me. Hopefully, i'm never tempted to go down that road again because the guilt is gutt-punching.

[NoIDidn't]

Curious, dreamlover, was your OM married too? Is that why it hurt so much? Did he stop the affair because he got busted?

 

Just curious.

 

I don't have much to add in the way of advice or condemnation, grown people are going to do what they want to do - me included.

 

I hope you give your H the chance to be a better H to you - you never know. Sometimes a switch goes off inside of them and they really do change - but he has to do it because he wants to, not because you threatened him with a divorce or told him to cheated (those things might be catalysts, but not the only things).

 

Anyway, good luck.

[dreamlover]

Curious, dreamlover, was your OM married too? Is that why it hurt so much? Did he stop the affair because he got busted?

 

Just curious.

 

I don't have much to add in the way of advice or condemnation, grown people are going to do what they want to do - me included.

 

I hope you give your H the chance to be a better H to you - you never know. Sometimes a switch goes off inside of them and they really do change - but he has to do it because he wants to, not because you threatened him with a divorce or told him to cheated (those things might be catalysts, but not the only things).

 

Anyway, good luck.

 

NO my OM is single, younger than me, never married.

 

yes, I will give it another try. hope we will work things out.

 

Thanks.

[dreamlover]

Curious, dreamlover, was your OM married too? Is that why it hurt so much? Did he stop the affair because he got busted?

 

 

I stopped the A because he has wasted two years of his life with me, we tried to break it a few times, but every time we tried but we got bck together agian and it only bring up closer. At the end, we were totally blinded and crazy, want more and more time from each other. I realize that I lost focus on my kids, the gulit was killing me and scared me.

 

So I cut it off totally NC back two months ago. It was hard. but I am doing better each day.

[NoIDidn't]

I stopped the A because he has wasted two years of his life with me, we tried to break it a few times, but every time we tried but we got bck together agian and it only bring up closer. At the end, we were totally blinded and crazy, want more and more time from each other. I realize that I lost focus on my kids, the gulit was killing me and scared me.

 

So I cut it off totally NC back two months ago. It was hard. but I am doing better each day.

 

Hey, thanks for answering. It was really off topic a little, but it helps me understand the WHY of what you are feeling. The fact that you haven't been discovered yet and haven't told your H looms larger on this fact. Single men, like Single Women, as affair partners are notorious for "getting back" at the married person by "telling on them" and telling their spouse.

 

I hope you will consider getting yourself and your H into marriage counseling. The Catholic Church has great marriage retreats for little to no money. I am not Catholic but I do know that they have information on this online. If you can find LS (LoveShack), you should have no difficulty finding info on these weekend retreats. Therapy might provide a gentler venue for telling your H about your A. Or, it may provide a safehaven for either of you in requesting a divorce.

 

Have you considered MC? Or IC? (marital or individual counseling)

[Lizzie60]

As you say.. it is better to keep this for yourself.. it would do no good to divulge your secret.. forget the past.. work on your relationship..

[jnj express]

Hey DL----Kids are no reason to stay in a loveless horrible mge., Your H. threats that he would kill someone is no reason to stay in a bad mge., Sounds like your H. is a control freak, and you are letting him control you., or you just back off from the issues run and hide, maybe you bring up divorce and your H pulls a defense mechanism and blusters about what he will do. HE WON'T DO ANYTHING, HE MIGHT EVEN ACTUALLY TAKE SOME STEPS TO CHANGE IF YOU SERIOUSLY THREATENED HIM WITH DIVORCE. You can't make this mge., work, you have cheated, and right now you are on a temperance kick, saving your soul, but a year from now if all this stays the same, and you have physical and emotional needs that your H., is not meeting, YOU WILL CHEAT AGAIN, why, because you can, you have gotten away with it once, will say to yourself, I need to do this, which will make it OK in your mind, and you will cheat again. Either do something to make your H. change or get out of the mge. If this mge is as you describe it the kids would probably be better off in split happy households anyway, than in living in what you are describing as your mge. If you are going to leave do not tell him, he doesn't need the pain, If you stay in the mge., then you have to decide what is right for the mge.

[boldjack]

I'm sorry that you don't like my forthright approach. If I seem insulting, it is because I have been a cheater many times and have heard all the excuses and rationalizations that you have been spouting. I don't dislike you, I don't know you. I DO know that all you are trying to do will come to nothing. Cheating is NOT a mistake, it is a character flaw, a breaking of faith. If you don't tell your H, then you are STILL cheating on him, every day is another day of cheating, every time you touch him or he touches you is cheating. YOU CAN NEVER GET OVER THE SIN OF DISHONESTY EXCEPT BY BEING HONEST. That's about all I'll say. Many people here have tried really hard to get you to see the truth and to tell the truth. Good luck with your lies.

[dreamlover]

I'm sorry that you don't like my forthright approach. If I seem insulting, it is because I have been a cheater many times and have heard all the excuses and rationalizations that you have been spouting. I don't dislike you, I don't know you. I DO know that all you are trying to do will come to nothing. Cheating is NOT a mistake, it is a character flaw, a breaking of faith.

 

Boldjack,

 

Thanks for being so open, and in fact, I see the insight from your post. but it scares me, I do not want to go down to this path again at all. so what helped you stop cheating? What did you do to fix the charater flaw? --- are you seeing that confess to my H will do it? Thanks in advance.

[boldjack]

Dl, the main reason that I changed was for my own self respect. I have always believed that I was smarter, handsomer, braver......better than other men. As a student, athlete, soldier,lover, I had it all my way. I cheated on almost all my gf's and my first wife, because it was all about me, they didn't matter as much. After my last affair I had an epiphany of sorts, I caused a nice family terrible emotional trauma. I began to see myself as I really was, arrogant, selfish, dishonest and cruel. I didn't like me very well. So I told ALL of those on who I cheated, the TOTAL truth. I accepted any and all of the consequences of my actions. People called me every name in the book, some husbands fought me. It was tough, embarassing and demeaning. I NEVER made excuses, blamed others and would only fight back when attacked first. It took a long time. Now I'm married to a goddess(in my mind) and I would never willingly tell a lie. I'm not talking about surprise parties or Santa Claus or telling ghost stories to the kids, situations like that. But Dishonestys. I am an honest man now, not better than others, not smarter,braver, orhandsomer, just a GOOD man. That's all I want to be. I'm not saying that you should tell your husband alone, with no support. Build your own support group of friends, family, counsellors, whoever and have them with you. Tell him all of the anguish that you have felt, admit you cheated, offer him alternatives such as divorce, counselling, religious counselling( if he's religious) and make sure that he knows that the affair has ended for good. Then you have done all you can do to show your willingness to make amends. After that it's up to him, if he will not work to repair the marriage, then end it. It will take bravery, honestyand love to do this, but however things turn out YOU will be a much better person, and can go into the future without guilt or shame. It's worth it, to be proud of yourself again.

[boldjack]

Dl, In all of this, you or nobody should have to face the threat of violence. If your husband has a history of violence, then consult your local law-enforcement, mental health, or legal professionals and they will help you find a way to avoid problems and make things easier. I truly hope that you will have a happy, honest, loving and safe life. I believe that you are a good person. Any (character flaws) that you have, you can correct. Good luck and God bless.......Jack

[boldjack]

Dl, the main reason that I changed was for my own self respect. I have always believed that I was smarter, handsomer, braver......better than other men. As a student, athlete, soldier,lover, I had it all my way. I cheated on almost all my gf's and my first wife, because it was all about me, they didn't matter as much. After my last affair I had an epiphany of sorts, I caused a nice family terrible emotional trauma. I began to see myself as I really was, arrogant, selfish, dishonest and cruel. I didn't like me very well. So I told ALL of those on who I cheated, the TOTAL truth. I accepted any and all of the consequences of my actions. People called me every name in the book, some husbands fought me. It was tough, embarassing and demeaning. I NEVER made excuses, blamed others and would only fight back when attacked first. It took a long time. Now I'm married to a goddess(in my mind) and I would never willingly tell a lie. I'm not talking about surprise parties or Santa Claus or telling ghost stories to the kids, situations like that. But Dishonestys. I am an honest man now, not better than others, not smarter,braver, orhandsomer, just a GOOD man. That's all I want to be. I'm not saying that you should tell your husband alone, with no support. Build your own support group of friends, family, counsellors, whoever and have them with you. Tell him all of the anguish that you have felt, admit you cheated, offer him alternatives such as divorce, counselling, religious counselling( if he's religious) and make sure that he knows that the affair has ended for good. Then you have done all you can do to show your willingness to make amends. After that it's up to him, if he will not work to repair the marriage, then end it. It will take bravery, honestyand love to do this, but however things turn out YOU will be a much better person, and can go into the future without guilt or shame. It's worth it, to be proud of yourself again.

[bentnotbroken]

Excellent post Boldjack. It is hard for all of us to face our character flaws and admit that we have hurt others with our actions. But once we do and deal with them, it is such a freeing experience. It allows you to live your life on a different level... one of self respect.

[dreamlover]

Dl, the main reason that I changed was for my own self respect. I have always believed that I was smarter, handsomer, braver......better than other men. As a student, athlete, soldier,lover, I had it all my way. I cheated on almost all my gf's and my first wife, because it was all about me, they didn't matter as much. After my last affair I had an epiphany of sorts, I caused a nice family terrible emotional trauma. I began to see myself as I really was, arrogant, selfish, dishonest and cruel. I didn't like me very well. So I told ALL of those on who I cheated, the TOTAL truth. I accepted any and all of the consequences of my actions. People called me every name in the book, some husbands fought me. It was tough, embarassing and demeaning. I NEVER made excuses, blamed others and would only fight back when attacked first. It took a long time. Now I'm married to a goddess(in my mind) and I would never willingly tell a lie. I'm not talking about surprise parties or Santa Claus or telling ghost stories to the kids, situations like that. But Dishonestys. I am an honest man now, not better than others, not smarter,braver, orhandsomer, just a GOOD man. That's all I want to be. I'm not saying that you should tell your husband alone, with no support. Build your own support group of friends, family, counsellors, whoever and have them with you. Tell him all of the anguish that you have felt, admit you cheated, offer him alternatives such as divorce, counselling, religious counselling( if he's religious) and make sure that he knows that the affair has ended for good. Then you have done all you can do to show your willingness to make amends. After that it's up to him, if he will not work to repair the marriage, then end it. It will take bravery, honestyand love to do this, but however things turn out YOU will be a much better person, and can go into the future without guilt or shame. It's worth it, to be proud of yourself again.

 

Jack,

 

Thank you so much for your reply. You may see it from my intial post, I have always thougt I was smart, attarctive woman, I have always had it in my way. What you wrote really made me think.

 

We moved to this foreign contry 10 years ago because my H's job. after we move, I had to change my major, I do not enjoy what I do now at all. I do not have too many friends, not family around. I feel empty and lonely. And you can see from my post, I am not satisified with my M. I know my H is also a very nice person, it is just we grew apart, and could not reach each other any more.

 

I totally admit that cheating is bad, very bad. I won BIG time to my H. to be honest, I had another very brief A back 5 years ago. It was not a good relationship at all. and the reason that my last A lasted two years was that I have fall deep for the person in my last A, we got along very well, and are very compatilable in many aspect. Just from the A I realize what kind of man I am really attarcted, and what I really want -- just for the first time to be honest to myself. He wanted to start a life with me but I felt that I do not deserve him, I have a bagage -- history of married and kids. I do not think I will be happy when my kids come to the picture of the relationship. So I ended the A and asked him never contact me in anyways because I truely loved him and want him to be happy, he is young and never married. -- So he moved on, has a GF now.

 

I truely think that My H deserves a better life, and my kids may be happier if we both are happier. I just do not have the support and am scared to face the D. I do not talk to my pareants and family often as I used to becase I am terriablly depressed after the A ended, the loss and pain is still very fresh and unbearable. I know it is not a good time to fix my M yet, but I want to sort my head and understand myself first.

 

Jack, may I ask you more questions: in all your As. Did you find someone who you really liked? and what was missing in your first marriage? Have you loved you first wife in a honest to yourself?

 

Thanks again!

[dreamlover]

Jack, please do not take me wrong, my A is over, I am doing something about my depression. I have picked up tennis and been more active, I set up trainning program for mesefl and workout 5 days a week, in fact good runner in my whole life and have always been physically active.

 

And I also start learning Bible and trying to find answer from there, I do not have nay religious background and it is hard for me to take it right away.

 

Anyways, I think it is reasonable to give myself sometime to heal after the A. and I am doing better and better each day. and I wish my A partner the best and I also own happiiness to my H. That is why I am here.

[AnthonyF]

I am happy to see your introspection DL..... And also respect Boldjack's post. I am happy I am not in that position, nor have to those decisions.

 

DL it is up to you to look to fix the marriage and tell your Husband that you two need to do it, to save the marriage.

 

Simply you have to tell him that you can't live like this and are going to get counseling and that it should be the both of you.

 

I still think you don't need to tell him now about the A, just why you are unhappy.

 

Everyone's situation is different and Boldjack is certainly an example of the one type that scares all us monogamists, the one who callously thinks only of oneself, a narcissist who frankly searches to hurt people, marriages and partnerships.

 

DL I think you are different, but must start the work immediately with your husband (seen you have done a lot for yourself).

[dreamlover]

I am happy to see your introspection DL..... And also respect Boldjack's post. I am happy I am not in that position, nor have to those decisions.

 

DL it is up to you to look to fix the marriage and tell your Husband that you two need to do it, to save the marriage.

 

Simply you have to tell him that you can't live like this and are going to get counseling and that it should be the both of you.

 

I still think you don't need to tell him now about the A, just why you are unhappy.

 

Everyone's situation is different and Boldjack is certainly an example of the one type that scares all us monogamists, the one who callously thinks only of oneself, a narcissist who frankly searches to hurt people, marriages and partnerships.

 

DL I think you are different, but must start the work immediately with your husband (seen you have done a lot for yourself).

 

Thank you Anthony, it is good to hear other people's thougts although I know ultimately the decision is mine. No one can make it for me.

 

But it is nice to have a plcae to talk about it without any risks of causing any damages.

 

When I looked at the beautiful, innocent faces of my kids. All the courages to get the D that I have build up inside me vinished, died. And I felt heartache to think about that they will live in a broken home or with someone else. On the other hand, my parents live together becuase of their kids. I never seen them really happy. And I think that had something to do for my marriage. one of my siblings just got D. and I wonder I am doing the same damage to my kids if I kept the M and make them seen the unhappy parents. So I am confused and do not know which way to go.

 

Talked to my H about MC, he refused was mad. I asked him ok if you do not want to go to MC, do you have any ideas to fix our M? he said no. I think we are going down the pass of getting D. It is just the matter of time.

[bentnotbroken]

Thank you Anthony, it is good to hear other people's thougts although I know ultimately the decision is mine. No one can make it for me.

 

But it is nice to have a plcae to talk about it without any risks of causing any damages.

 

When I looked at the beautiful, innocent faces of my kids. All the courages to get the D that I have build up inside me vinished, died. And I felt heartache to think about that they will live in a broken home or with someone else. On the other hand, my parents live together becuase of their kids. I never seen them really happy. And I think that had something to do for my marriage. one of my siblings just got D. and I wonder I am doing the same damage to my kids if I kept the M and make them seen the unhappy parents. So I am confused and do not know which way to go.

 

Talked to my H about MC, he refused was mad. I asked him ok if you do not want to go to MC, do you have any ideas to fix our M? he said no. I think we are going down the pass of getting D. It is just the matter of time.

 

 

If he refused and is angry about trying to get help, then there is no reason for you to stay. He isn't going to make in positive moves, it means your children will be living in a lie. A divorce will be healthier for all involved and will no longer be an excuse for cheating. He has no idea how to fix things and refuses to seek help to do, tells you how much he truly cares. Now is the time to leave so that an unhappy marriage won't be the excuse for another A. That does your children no good either.

[pelicanpreacher]

Your best move right now is not to make any permanent decisions but to demonstrate your seriousness by going through the motions of leaving him. If all that he respects are absolutes then the mere act should inspire his desire to look deeper at the problem and evoke action to save his marriage. Too often, men need to be hit upside the head with a 2X4 to realize the significance of the problem before them so let this act serve as an opening volley to focus his attention. At the very least, you'll know where he stands and, ultimately, where you stand on whether this marriage is fixable or not!

[boldjack]

Yes Dl, one of the ladies I cheated on my first wife with, i cared for very much and wanted to d and marry her. She was married also and would not leave because of religious reasons. She was the first person that I was truly in love with. No, I didn't love my first wife, she was my HS sweetheart and we were expected to marry by both families. I guess that if I had married for love the first time, then all my women troubles would have been avoided, but probably not, as I was still in ******* mode. Thanx Bent, Yess you can't imagine how good it is to wake up each day to a fresh world and not having to remember which lie was told to whom and to look in the mirror and like the face looking back.

[bentnotbroken]

;[/b]2077083]Yes Dl, one of the ladies I cheated on my first wife with, i cared for very much and wanted to d and marry her. She was married also and would not leave because of religious reasons. She was the first person that I was truly in love with. No, I didn't love my first wife, she was my HS sweetheart and we were expected to marry by both families. I guess that if I had married for love the first time, then all my women troubles would have been avoided, but probably not, as I was still in ******* mode. Thanx Bent, Yess you can't imagine how good it is to wake up each day to a fresh world and not having to remember which lie was told to whom and to look in the mirror and like the face looking back.

 

 

It always amazing me that so called religious poeple won't divorce, but they will have an A. It just boggles my mind. Pick what parts of the bible you want to live by and ignore the rest.

[boldjack]

Bent, I held it against her for a long time, then I saw her at my HS football reunion, she's old before her time with about a zillion kids and heartbreakingly unhappy, I hope her religion was worth it. They say suffering is good for the soul, I sure hope so, for her sake. She told me she never forgot me, and always loved me. I don't think that "God" would want a marriage to be like that. She's had a couple of A's since me. It blows my mind.... I remember her as a young, alive, clever, immensely sexy redhead with freckles on her nose, body of a painting, and heart of gold. How sad.

[Dexter Morgan]

As you say.. it is better to keep this for yourself.. it would do no good to divulge your secret.. forget the past.. work on your relationship..

 

Although I disagree with never telling as the betrayed party deserves to know what they are married to.

 

But as far as working on the relationship...what is there for her to work on? She lays all the blame at her husband's feet.

[jwi71]

Maybe I picked a worng example snoring as one of the problems in our marriage, I have a lot of other things, they looks small, but when all of them add up together, it become big issues.

 

Lots of small issues whose aggregate equals BAD MARRIAGE.

No one here doubts that you are not happy in the M. And we all understand how lots of small issues add up over time. And the choice is simple: fix them or leave him.

 

It takes 2 to solve them, I have asked my H to go to MC, he said that it is BullSh**. I told him that I wish he could remeber my Birthday, I told him that wish he sometime go see a movie with me. But he never did. Year after year, I gave up and shut down.

I am so sorry to hear that. Not just words DL, I mean it.

If he won't fix it...then leave. File for D and get on with your life. Because staying at home will NOT get better. Ever. And it gets worse if he discovers the A (and you'd be surprised how often those things get out).

 

Then I talked to him SERIOUSLY, let's devoice. he said that I am HIS, if I D him and if I will remarry someone else, he will kill him.

Call the police. A threat of physical violence in my state (Tx) earns you an arrest and a night in jail. This is illegal and obviously threatening. He's using fear and intimidation to control you. Don't let him.

 

And you do that...by moving out and calling the police. The cycle of violence and abuse can ONLY continue if you let it. And staying there in that situation under those "terms"...continues the cycle. Guess what your kids are learning?

 

I printed out the doc for D, he throw it away

Ha! You don't NEED his permission to file for D. In fact, his first knowledge of the D could be a court official serving him the papers.

 

. I gave up plus I was not sure about the D. becuase of the kids.

There is NO statistical correlation of kids success between happy nuclear families and happy divorce parents. If the parents care and put the kids first...they have the SAME chance to succeed as do kids with married ones.

I bet you know the answer to the chance of success for kids from violent, tense and abusive homes is...

he never wants to talk about our issues, he thinks that all woman compains about their H. he does not see the problems, he does not want to admit that there are big issues in our lives.

If he is unwilling to fix it, then you have a choice.

Suck it up and be a martyr or divorce. Choose.

 

PLEASE, give me a break, I am telling you the truth, I know I sounded miseriable and sad and mad. I am not trying to see that it is all his fault that I cheated. I am writing out here to vent that how I was treated and what kind of man I have in my life. Before we married, he was a different man. When he think he HAS me, he become who he really is.

 

I have done all these before I met someone at work who listen to me, who cares about to know how I feel. I do not think I find the true love from the A. -- after all, I am carring all the heavy bagage with me all the time. But it was very comforting, a nice, peacful time in my life.

No. It doesn't work that way. Cheating is wrong. Two wrongs don't make a right. You do NOT get a free pass for cheating. Stop making excuses.

 

The A was just a best way for me to escape, bad choice I know. I did not even realize that I started an A, I did even know much about Affair after until lately when all is over. I know it is wrong to cheat.

Then stop making excuses and attaching qualifiers. The only statement that need be made is "Cheating is wrong". Everything else is fluff designed to minimize your own image to yourself and others.

I want to focus on my marriage, family and kids now, but I need my H to work with me, that is my big challenge.

OK. What EXACTLY are you going to do to get your H to work with you to save the M? Your H has no need or desire to change. He has no idea how bad it is...and if its good for him why would he change?

Sorry for writing so long. I just need to find a place to vent and orginze my thought, and get some advice.

Certainly. Your H will NOT change until he sees a NEED to change. And even then, he may CHOOSE to resist and NOT change. And if that's his choice...YOUR path should be clear.