The Moose Clan has left their Church "Home"

[Moose]

Several months ago our Pastor, (Son of our founding Pastor) up and left. We believe it had a lot to do with the loss of his son who tragically died in a car accident on his way to Church one Sunday with his cousin.

 

Since then, he hadn't been able to spiritually lead the congregation. (Our Opinion only)

 

In our, "By Laws" there is a systematic way of electing a new Pastor. This "by law" was totally ignored and a new Pastor took office.

 

As a leader of the Church I had set up several appointments to get to know the new Pastor myself, simply because I've never met him, and he OBVIOUSLY didn't have a clue who I was.

 

Long story short, he has put into place requirements to follow in order to hold your position. These requirements would directly interfere with my career and Mrs. Moose would need to drop out of choir.

 

Neither of which we felt we needed to do. Our class is based on young married couples with younger children. Not anymore.

 

EVERY Sunday School class will be teaching on the same exact subject from here on out whether or not it pertains to God's plan of raising a Christian family.

 

I respectfully stepped down from my position, but continued to attend because my wife has been a member for 30 some odd years, and myself 22 years, most of her family still attends and are leaders as well.

 

Soon after I stepped down, my wife saw the writing on the wall, and decided to follow my decision to find a new home.

 

See, I've always felt led to teach young married couples with children on raising their families, and how to deal with transitioning current habits with new, (better) Godly habits.

 

We announced our leaving during our Marriage Retreat in Branson last Saturday Morning....all of our students wept. We took them out for one final luncheon, and I explained to them our decision.

 

It was a tough one, one that saddened not only myself, my family and my wifes family, but one that God led me to do. I will not be teaching now for a while until I find a new home and am elected to do so, but at least I'm not under a dictator who seems to feel his plan is above Gods.

 

So those who care enough to pray for me, please do so....and for those who think you've won, think again. I worship 24/7 as Paul did while in prison, you don't need a Church to do so....

 

Just had to get this off my chest....

 

OH, and I do have a question for you all, what would you think of an online Church Service using Live Meeting?

[GorillaTheater]

OH, and I do have a question for you all, what would you think of an online Church Service using Live Meeting?

 

I'm not too sure what this means exactly, but in my opinion, you can't have the fellowship and the pouring into one anothers' lives without gathering together in person.

 

Sorry that things went south at your church. If you're anything like me, you'll spend a large part of the next year visiting churches and trying to figure out where God wants you.

[Moose]

I'm not too sure what this means exactly, but in my opinion, you can't have the fellowship and the pouring into one anothers' lives without gathering together in person.

 

Sorry that things went south at your church. If you're anything like me, you'll spend a large part of the next year visiting churches and trying to figure out where God wants you.

I have two in mind already.

 

It's funny, last Sunday we didn't go, (obviously) and the new Pastor hasn't bothered to call or contact me in any way.

 

I'm sure when he looks at the budget in April and sees our tithe missing, (approx 1,250.00 monthly) he'll be out at the house asking why, why, why....

[quankanne]

moose, I feel for y'all – even in the Catholic Church we've got priests who decide they know better than the parish they've been assigned to, and they end up hurting the congregation with their ill-considered decisions or ideas because HE is the priest, and the people MUST do as HE says. I cannot tell you the number of calls I've gotten from people (mostly older parishioners who are accustomed to changes) wanting to know how long they're going to have to suffer the new guy. It's like these guys don't understand that the parish has been there much longer than they have, and will be there after they leave, so they need to proceed with respect and care if they want to keep said parish intact!

 

that said, would it be possible for you to continue the couples ministry outside the parish itself? As in, seek accreditation and help from the higher authority (in our case, one step up from the parish is the diocese) to open up classes at a public level so you can bring your ministry to a wider audience? Not only would it serve as witness, but it would be a means of evangelization to those who are seeking to learn more about God and the role he plays in marriage.

[quankanne]

I'm sure when he looks at the budget in April and sees our tithe missing, (approx 1,250.00 monthly) he'll be out at the house asking why, why, why....

 

sadly, it often comes down to just this. In my sister's case, it was the reason her pastor "fired" her as volunteer coordinator of the church's catechism program for preschoolers! Her babies knew prayers that kids two years older than them were just learning, and I believe they made their Holy Communion a full year earlier than scheduled because they were so well versed in their catechism! However, the pastor wasn't happy that she – a big wig from Southwestern Bell Telephone – wasn't "properly" tithing. Apparently, her volunteering to run the program when her personal time was at a premium because SWB had her running all over the place AND turning over a stipend they'd decided to give her because she was so diligent with the program didn't get through his brain.

 

she left the church in a huff, but 18 months ago, she found out where the nun she used to do the preschool catechism with was now ministering, and she came back into the church. Apparently, the new parish is a poorer one, and embraces those people who want to do ministry because they understand that "tithing" is more than just treasure – it's time and talent.

 

so don't let the jerk now running your old parish convince you your talent isn't needed. I just saw the other part about the online services/meetings and think it's a grand idea. You might also want to consider youtube as an instrument of evangelization – you never know who might discover what ministry you're offering and benefit from it.

[Moose]

You ALWAYS make me feel better.

 

Unfortunately, most of the Baptist Churches here require a BBFI degree, (Baptist Bible Fellowship Institution) in order to go above your Pastor's decisions. So that's a no go.

 

The associate Pastor, my ex-Sunday School Teacher and his wife along with Mrs. Moose and I are currently looking for a patch of land to build our own Church on. This will be several years down the road, but as you know, God has His own time table....

[Geishawhelk]

Moose, for what it's worth, and little as it may seem, I am thinking of you and your family, and the upheaval you are all suffering right now.

 

I believe a church is where your heart is, and if your heart belongs to God, then it's everywhere you go.

 

You could try an on-line Church Service, anything's worth a shot......

With the great strides technology has made it could be said that God moves in even more mysterious ways....!

 

If I don't offend you, I will light my lamp for you and make a votive offering.

If I do, I won't do it.

 

But I will think on you in any case.

 

Much metta to you and yours.

[Moose]

If I don't offend you, I will light my lamp for you and make a votive offering.

No I will NOT be offended, rather, honored!

Much metta to you and yours.

And may God bless you as well!

[quankanne]

I will light my lamp for you and make a votive offering.

 

hey, we do the same thing ... except they're little bitty candles!

 

moose, God will pull you in the direction you need to be. Meanwhile think about secular training to give added oomph to your ministry. One of the cities in our area offers something called "We Vow Now," a marriage enrichment program offered through a government grant, I believe. So there's definitely a niche out there that needs to be filled!

 

something I just read in the George Foreman book, Going the Extra Smile: "You've got to give from whatever you have – your time, your talents, your personality, your heart." And it's very true: When you give your all, God rewards you with success.

 

I think y'alls ministry is going to do just fine, moose!

 

(I highly recommend reading this book, there's a whole lot of good stuff in it!)

[Tony T]

OH, and I do have a question for you all, what would you think of an online Church Service using Live Meeting?

 

I think an online church service would be great, that is, if you are able to get a group of people together who have similar beliefs or are extremely open minded. I don't think it would work for some religions that are very dogmatic.

 

I wish all religions and people that follow them were more open minded than they are. It would make life a lot better. The idea of an online service is phenomenal. If you get one started, please PM me and let me know when and at what URL and I'll be there. I suppose you could invite a lot of people and if some object to what's going on they can just sign off.

 

GREAT IDEA!!! I wonder if anybody is doing it. Seems like a groundbreaker for people who want to participate in worship but feel uncomfortable in a church setting.

[Eve]

As a leader of the Church I had set up several appointments to get to know the new Pastor myself, simply because I've never met him, and he OBVIOUSLY didn't have a clue who I was.

 

Long story short, he has put into place requirements to follow in order to hold your position. These requirements would directly interfere with my career and Mrs. Moose would need to drop out of choir.

 

Neither of which we felt we needed to do. Our class is based on young married couples with younger children. Not anymore.

 

EVERY Sunday School class will be teaching on the same exact subject from here on out whether or not it pertains to God's plan of raising a Christian family.

 

I respectfully stepped down from my position, but continued to attend because my wife has been a member for 30 some odd years, and myself 22 years, most of her family still attends and are leaders as well.

 

Soon after I stepped down, my wife saw the writing on the wall, and decided to follow my decision to find a new home.

 

See, I've always felt led to teach young married couples with children on raising their families, and how to deal with transitioning current habits with new, (better) Godly habits.

 

I dont get it. Did you and Mrs Moose actually speak to the new Pastor at all? Sorry Moose but a large part of your post sounded extremely arrogant. Of course the internet can be a poor medium to sometimes get a real feel for what a person is saying but I did feel quite uncomfortable in reading some of your post.. like you are above the normal process of working something out.

 

Did you speak to the Pastor?

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[Moose]

I dont get it. Did you and Mrs Moose actually speak to the new Pastor at all? Sorry Moose but a large part of your post sounded extremely arrogant. Of course the internet can be a poor medium to sometimes get a real feel for what a person is saying but I did feel quite uncomfortable in reading some of your post.. like you are above the normal process of working something out.

 

Did you speak to the Pastor?

 

Regards,

Eve xx

Yes, our first meeting was Mrs. Moose and I, with the Pastor then we had a series of 4 other meetings to go over the articles of Faith and the "By Laws".

 

He told me at every meeting that he couldn't find any copies to give me with the by laws, but I could download the AOF from the BBFI site, which I did right after our first meeting, and of course, I NAILED eveyone of them....

 

I just found out last night from the ex-secretary that she had 25 copies made right before she left the position, so he had them, I just think he was being cautious that I didn't hit the by law on electing a new Pastor.....I could be wrong...

It would make life a lot better. The idea of an online service is phenomenal.

 

If you get one started, please PM me and let me know when and at what URL and I'll be there. I suppose you could invite a lot of people and if some object to what's going on they can just sign off.

 

GREAT IDEA!!! I wonder if anybody is doing it. Seems like a groundbreaker for people who want to participate in worship but feel uncomfortable in a church setting.

This coming from you confirms my decision to go ahead with the idea....I will keep you posted!! And THANKS!!

[Eve]

Yes, our first meeting was Mrs. Moose and I, with the Pastor then we had a series of 4 other meetings to go over the articles of Faith and the "By Laws".

 

He told me at every meeting that he couldn't find any copies to give me with the by laws, but I could download the AOF from the BBFI site, which I did right after our first meeting, and of course, I NAILED eveyone of them....

 

Ok, maybe I was being too cautious in reading your post because of something I am going through. I really feel a strong calling to take Communion but feel prevented because I dont want to be invvolved in Church politics such as what you mentioned.

 

I was concerned about the [seeming] emphasis placed on your tithe and the perception that you had not spoken with the Pastor. From an outsiders view your post did read very much like you wanted to be the new Pastor and was making life difficult for this new person. I was a bit annoyed because it seemed as though you were following your financial ability to set up elsewhere rather than being humble and talking things through.. but anyway if what you say is true.. apologies.

 

An online Church would be good .. not sure how you would conduct Communion though.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[quankanne]

Ok, maybe I was being too cautious in reading your post because of something I am going through. I really feel a strong calling to take Communion but feel prevented because I dont want to be involved in Church politics such as what you mentioned.

 

I probably am getting this wrong, but it makes me very, very sad to see that you feel you are not able to receive communion because of problems with church politics. That shouldn't keep you from taking communion, ever, because it's between you and JC, you know?

 

my co-worker's husband is a church deacon, and we got to talking about who can and can't receive the Eucharist, and he asked if I was. No, because there's still a matter of my marriage not being recognized by the Catholic Church, because my husband is considered "sacramentally" still married to his first wife (long, drawn out story, but rules is rules, and I will abide, you know?). And he said he had a conversation with the rector of the cathedral, who told them that it had to be the person receiving communion to realize he is not "eligible," not the priest or deacon pounding it over his head ... that this might be the very thing that keeps him a part of the relationship with God, because it's God's grace that takes precedent.

 

so please, rethink the communion issue: If you feel God is calling you to partake, and you are morally free to do so, go for it. A bad pastor/priest or a snippy congregation shouldn't keep you from that special union with Him.

 

tony, I remember growing up in South Texas and seeing the Mass televised on Sundays for the shut-ins, so it's a ministry that reaches out to those who are ill/unable to physically get to church. The communion issue is resolved by the use of extraordinary Eucharistic ministers who visit said shut-ins/sick people and give them communion. My mom did this for a long time before she got sick herself.

[Moose]

From an outsiders view your post did read very much like you wanted to be the new Pastor and was making life difficult for this new person.

Oh no way! Definitely do NOT want to be the Pastor...I just wanted to keep our class theme the way it was, but he knew ahead of time that wasn't going to happen, so he literally mis-led me.

I was concerned about the [seeming] emphasis placed on your tithe and the perception that you had not spoken with the Pastor.

The Pastor has not spoken to us about our decision to leave...but when it comes down to it the budget will need to be re-vamped, and THAT will then cause concern(s) for the new Pastor and the board. I feel once that happens, he'll then approach us, and I feel that is the WRONG motivation to keep members from leaving.

 

I certainly wasn't boasting about what I give, all in all I actually give A LOT more, (I won't share that though) but what I posted was the normal 10% of my first "Fruits"......

I was a bit annoyed because it seemed as though you were following your financial ability to set up elsewhere rather than being humble and talking things through..

Trust me, I tried everything I could, and I let the Holy Spirit guide me every step of the way....I've since learned that I'm not the only one whom he's deceived...or mis-led, or even lied to...

An online Church would be good .. not sure how you would conduct Communion though.

I do plan on having membership(s) therefore I can ship each of them a small "Communion" kit and announce a date that paritioners are to be prepared for the ceremony with each other online....

 

I want to apologize to you for not being clear about this situation.....and I hope I didn't offend you....

[climbergirl]

I never got the impression that you were wanting to be pastor based on your post. It's a difficult thing, this being part of a christian community and having that thrown off by new 'leadership'.

 

Just a background...I was very involved with my church--there at least 3 times a week and this was as a teenager. Sunday church, confirmation, sunday school teacher for many years.

 

My family first left when my grandmothers death wasn't even acknowledged during service or from the pastors discretion. And remember that we had been members for over 30 years. But, new pastor.

 

I remained but the catalyst for me was when I was pregnant and unmarried. The pastor made a point of coming up to me and telling me that I was welcome to be a member inspite of being pregnant and unmarried. What?? He's our pastor for 6 months were i had been a member for 30 years.

 

My previous pastor would have never thought this to be an issue. Nor, would he feel the need to make an issue out of my current circumstance.

 

I do not blame you at all for moving on. Pastors are human, too. Some deserve the title, some don't.

[climbergirl]

What a jerk. He should have been asking if there was something the church could do to make your pregnancy easier.

 

Thank you. It's still sad for me. I drive by my church and feels like I've been kicked out of my own family.

 

So I really feel for Moose, his wife and family. You invest so much and to see the tides change is very difficult.

[Moose]

Thank you. It's still sad for me. I drive by my church and feels like I've been kicked out of my own family.

 

So I really feel for Moose, his wife and family. You invest so much and to see the tides change is very difficult.

I SO know what you mean! (About driving by). I designed the family center on my own time, it's now built, (my blood sweat and tears included) and I've done a lot of work on the main building that's visable when you drive by it.....I feel now it was all for not. But I know that if even one comes to Christ, then it was worth all the time, money and effort.....

 

Another note, my sons and soon to be daughter in law got notices about the upcoming time change, (We don't set our clocks until after morning services).....Mrs. Moose and I recieved nothing. So it's obvious we've already been written off with no questions asked. The man could care less about us....that's what bothers me the most...I guess....

[disgracian]

I certainly wasn't boasting about what I give, all in all I actually give A LOT more, (I won't share that though) but what I posted was the normal 10% of my first "Fruits"

You certainly are now. I wonder why you feel the need to do this.

 

I have also perceived a great deal of self righteousness in this thread so far. How "you" did this, and "you" built that, etc. Perhaps I'm not the only one for whom this rubs the wrong way.

 

Cheers,

D.

[JamesM]

I have also perceived a great deal of self righteousness in this thread so far. How "you" did this, and "you" built that, etc. Perhaps I'm not the only one for whom this rubs the wrong way.

 

Cheers,

D.

 

Perhaps you may be in the minority. I can say that I did not see it as you do. I see some hurt and anger being expressed, but I do not see arrogance.

 

Perhaps even as I do notice how you contribute many intelligent posts, I do notice that many things Moose says rub you the wrong way.

 

Moose, personally and I admit it is based on your posts and my own experiences, I wonder if time will heal this rift you have with your new pastor and church. Years of service to a congregation cannot easily be discarded due to a personality conflict with a man. It is not fair to your church or yourself. It could easily be in time that he sees the errors of his ways or that you see that underneath he is actually a good person.

 

Maybe if you give this a few months, you may actually feel differently. Maybe it is too late for this now, but if there is still time, then it certainly would not hurt to make some reconciliation.

 

I am in no way suggesting that you are wrong in the direction you are choosing. I am just trying to give a different perspective to think upon.

[disgracian]

I'm used to being in the minority. But anyway, I, like you, was offering a possible explanation for why this happened.

 

Most people, myself included, are not very aware of how we are really perceived by others. I personally see somebody who is very prideful, eager to remind all how much he does and/or contributes. I may not be the only one who shares that view.

 

I think this is just a clash of personalities that may be more alike than either of them realise. Moose feels "led" to teach young couples; this new pastor probably feels equally "led" to do what he is doing. There is a difference of opinion, and it is probably irreconcilable for two individuals who both feel so strongly about different things. As it stands, before we all say "Oh what a raw deal you got", we should probably remember that we have only heard one side of the story. As an aside, that's one reason I don't share these sorts of personal events about myself with the internets: people can only go by what you've told them and don't know enough about the situation to give you the honesty you need (but might not necessarily want). All you're likely to get in return are echoes of your tale of woe which only reinforces what you feel without challenging it.

 

Moose wasn't forced to leave the church, it was a choice made for various reasons (the loss of the leadership position was obviously a raw nerve). I just hope that no bridges were burned completely. Nobody knows what the future might bring.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

Well D,

 

As usual, you have twisted my thread totally around, read too much into it, and accuse me of being self righteous.

 

Have you ever been a member of a Church? I would venture to guess that no you haven't.....

 

Had you been, you'd understand that serving the Church has nothing to do with "men". You serve the Church to gloryify the Lord.

 

I do what I do because I can. And that my friend is what I personally think bothers you so much.....

 

James,

 

I had a whole series of meetings spanning one month, then it took another month for Mrs. Moose to see the writing on the wall, so we're not leaving because we did give him a chance.

 

When he preaches, his doctrine is write on...however, his administrative tactics are destroying the very backbone of our Church.

 

Maybe one day, we'll meet and set things right again. I can only pray......thanks for your contribution!

[quankanne]

some of these guys have horrible bedside manner, and don't realize what damage they can wreak on their parish/congregation ... and don't give a rat's arse because they know there's another assignment several months or years down the road. Basically, they're more interested in setting themselves up as little gods than they are in helping the parish adjust to change and meeting their needs; instead, they push their needs on to the parish, who are just a source of funding. Have seen it often enough in my time working for the church to know just what Moose is facing, and why he's so frustrated.

 

I remained but the catalyst for me was when I was pregnant and unmarried. The pastor made a point of coming up to me and telling me that I was welcome to be a member in spite of being pregnant and unmarried.

 

and this is a perfect example of the "bad" kinds of leadership I speak of. Pastor should have offered himself up as servant, not judge, because this is what the Big Boss (Jesus) himself instructed when he washed the feet of his Apostles just before he died. That to be a good leader is to give of self, not impose self!

 

I have also perceived a great deal of self righteousness in this thread so far. How "you" did this, and "you" built that, etc. Perhaps I'm not the only one for whom this rubs the wrong way.

 

it may sound self-righteous when read, but I honestly believe Moose is grieving the loss of his church home that he put so much of himself into, and that's normal. I'd say the exact same thing of my efforts (paid or not) if I was being turned away by a leader who acted the way his new pastor is doing.

[Eve]

so please, rethink the communion issue: If you feel God is calling you to partake, and you are morally free to do so, go for it. A bad pastor/priest or a snippy congregation shouldn't keep you from that special union with Him.

 

Yes, I am going to go to Church tomorrow ... I know when God is calling and I must listen to that foremostly. What will be will be. I just hope that I dont have to tell anyone about themselves. Not in Gods house, but I would if I have to... I cannot colllude with fakeness, I just cant do it. Thanks though for listening.

 

... and Moose, no I am not offended. I would have challenged you greatly if you had acted as I read things but I was wrong. I am sorry that things have not worked out and I do hope that you can heal quickly.

 

For someone like myself who just wants to share time with God without the drama, the online Church idea is fab!

 

Please keep us posted.

 

I hope I did not add to your grief. My intentions are always to get to the bottom of things but I understand that this can seem somewhat confrontational. If you knew me in real life you would see that I am pretty harmless.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[headlesschicken]

well just do what is best for you. church is a place for community, and it would be a shame to lose that important part of church life, imo.

 

other people, you can't control. finding a new place to worship and forgiving those who have wronged us (intentionally or not) is a great way to stay spiritually healthy and move on.